Thread Number: 36707
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|Post# 546228   9/27/2011 at 21:48 (4,457 days old) by peteski50 (New York)  || |
As far as I know this is a division of Whirlpool!
Could this be a combo that they are making?
Interesting but wish I could read it!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO peteski50's LINK
|Post# 546255 , Reply# 1   9/28/2011 at 00:24 (4,456 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
Yes, this is a combo. (washer-condenser dryer)
This is actually the worst combo washer one could ever buy in Brazil (or everywhere in this world).
The machine has an interesting design and it's really cute. Very small outside and the curved design makes it look even smaller. The drum has a good size.
The main problem with it is that the machine has a very poor suspension system that can't compensate the inclined drum, plus the leveling feet are NOT adjustable. (only one).
There are many videos on youtube with this machine jumping like a mad horse.
About 1 year ago, a consumer posted a video on youtube where the machine filled up to the drawer and then suddenly the door opens in the middle of the cycle.
Even hating Brastemp and hating even more this model, if I had the money I'd buy one and pray for it to work ok, just to keep it in my collection as I have an speciall love for tiny machines.
By the way, this week a friend of mine gave me his Brastemp Baby Mondial that was in almost mint condition. The only things I had to fix was the upper wiring harness and the PCP. Even the bearings and the seal are like new.
Baby Mondial is a mini Mondial (World Washer) launched in 1991. The machine is smaller than that cute 1 cu ft Haier, and lasted a lot as all the mechanism is overdesigned to the big model.
It's virtually impossible to overload a Baby Mondial, as in the tub won't fit even 50% of a load that the transmition could handle. I don't even need to talk about it's mechanical action and rollover... the agitator was also reduced to fit the drum, but comparing the standard version vs the baby version, the agitator is huge for that tiny drum.
It has 2 cycles (with 20 minutes soak and without soak), 2 rinses.
No water level control, no temperature control, nothing else!
The agitator column is the detergent dispenser (the machine was launched before all of the brazilian machines have a dispenser drawer) and also has a bleach dispenser (actually a funnel). In the agitator there's the lint filter, no softener dispenser too.
Mondial was also the last Brastemp/Whirlpool machine without a clear lid. After Mondial and Baby Mondial, Brastemp Clean was launched with a small clear window on the lid and after Clean, the Brastemp Electronic was launched with the tempered glass lid.
I love the "old" Brastemp, when the company was still Brasmotor/Multibras, before being bought by Whirlpool Corporation.
I'm going to get the machine at the repair service by the end of this week, for sure i'm going to make many videos of it.
|Post# 546258 , Reply# 2   9/28/2011 at 00:33 (4,456 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
Before I forget, all Brastemp/Consul top loader washers after Mondial are made on the "World Washer" platform. 5kg capacity Mondial and Clean was great, but when they started to rate the newer models as 7, 8, 9 and up to 11kg, the problems started.
It's obvious that the World Washer mechanism won't survive too long washing those huge loads.
The new machines (Brastemp Ative) now have serious problems with undersized suspension, so there are thousands of machines jumping right on the first spin after hooked up. Some of them jump even with empty tub.
|Post# 546260 , Reply# 3   9/28/2011 at 00:56 (4,456 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.))  || |
Not sure why WP did not convert the Brastemp to the Direct Drive design as these machines are durable and preform well. Of course now the DD machines are going away and all WP top loaders will have the cheap World Washer (Lavadora Del Mundo) mechanism. From what I've heard this BT combo unit is a candy coated piece of S*#!. Hopefully WP can fix this and not join the ranks of shitty appliance MFRs.
|Post# 546292 , Reply# 4   9/28/2011 at 08:30 (4,456 days old) by brastemp (Brazil)  || |
Let me be clear that the problem with the suspension of washers brastemp has been resolved and that it was released with the first washers. The Ative line has more than 1 million washers sold, with 65% market share, according to the magazine Top of Mind only in the area of washers (Brastemp and Consul brands).
I am also very happy to have the American Whirlpool used the great system-Belt drive Whirlpool already quite traditional in Brazil. It is very economical, quiet and simple handling.
As for the combo in question was released only to compete with LG and Samsung, but it is a poor quality product made in China as problematic electrolux combos.
|Post# 546318 , Reply# 5   9/28/2011 at 10:56 (4,456 days old) by peteski50 (New York)  || |
|Post# 546326 , Reply# 6   9/28/2011 at 11:49 (4,456 days old) by brastemp (Brazil)  || |
I'm also unhappy to be a low quality product. I don't like combos, they spend too much time to make the full cycle.
|Post# 546333 , Reply# 7   9/28/2011 at 12:49 (4,456 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)  || |
My sister lives in Sao Paulo and if I remember well, she told me that some people in Brazil compare things to Brastemp appliances like people here used to say "it's the Cadillac of..."
At least, that's the explanation she got when she was compared to a Brastemp appliance! I hope the person who told her that wasn't referring to this combo!
|Post# 546347 , Reply# 8   9/28/2011 at 14:54 (4,456 days old) by drewz (Alexandria, Virginia)  || |
World's Largest Appliance Family.....
CLICK HERE TO GO TO drewz's LINK
|Post# 546349 , Reply# 9   9/28/2011 at 15:03 (4,456 days old) by brastemp (Brazil)  || |
Hi PhilR, we have an old and popular saying here that says "Não é assim uma Brastemp" (not just a brastemp). The brand is so popular that when people want to compare something lower quality, they say "Não é assim uma Brastemp".
|Post# 546398 , Reply# 10   9/28/2011 at 21:34 (4,456 days old) by grando ()  || |
They do look alike.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO grando's LINK
|Post# 546429 , Reply# 11   9/29/2011 at 07:32 (4,455 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
I'm so scary with things manufacturers are doing here.
Brastemp was the best manufacturer for decades. It was a 100% Brazilian company, that used Whirlpool's know how (they bought the right to use whirlpool projects).
That's why Brastemp machines always looked like american Whirlpools (Starting by the first Brastemp that looks like a Lady Kenmore with one or other minor design change, usually cosmetical only.
The same washer from late 50's to late 80's. Expensive, but reliable. Many people still have their machines until today.
When the Mondial was launched in 1991 it caused a huge revolution in our market.
It was an excellent machine. Everybody could see Brastemp and Whirlpool did an excellent work creating this machine. It was quieter than any other machine, it spun better, had innovative ovtions, was easier to fix and also lighter, so the housekeeper could move it easier to clean the floor under it or the walls behind it.
Of course, it wasn't as reliable as the previous model, but it's very clear that the World washer was made to last for at least 30 years.
Then Brastemp started the programmed obsolescence program. obviously they realized they did something horrible to their profit: "a machine that lasts". Then they decided to kill the Mondial and launched the Brastemp Clean.
Brastemp clean still a wonderful machine, but much more fragile than the Mondial. It still reliable, but had many other fragile parts, like the lid that had very fragile plastic hinges.
It was the last time we saw a Brastemp that we would be 100% proud of it.
Brastemp Electronic was launched. Together with it the biggest recall operation a manufacturer ever made in Brazil.
Of course it was another revolution. a fully electronic machine, with many different cycles, internal heater, an amazing design and... the Brastemp logo on the panel. Thousands of brazilians intantly loved it... a few months later the electronic boards started to fail...
That was the first time we've heard about something made by Brastemp not being "good as a Brastemp".
The recall worked ok, thousands of control panels were replaced, but Brastemp insisted ina wonderful design with a ridiculous fail. The panel was in the front part of the machine, so users would let clothes soaking in buckets or rub stained parts with soap before putting the clothes in the washer (too common here in Brazil) and the wet clothes would drip right at the panel during loading.
Of course a drop of water can't do anything, but day after day, drop after drop, the control panels wouldn't survive.
Brastemp (now a Whirlpool Corp. company) realized it was too obvious, so they decided to change the design. the panel went to both sides of the lid (not the best idea, but it was much better than the front.)
The machine lasted a little bit more, but still not as reliable as the Mondial.
Suddenly they launched the Ative model. the first ones were a complete disaster. They used an underdimensioned suspension. a 11kg capacity washing machine using the same 5kg mondial hydrocompensator ring. The result was machines jumping like crazy.
Brastemp didn't do a recall operation (and I still don't know why) but all the consumers that complained had their machines fixed (sometimes the technitians said "it's normal, the problem is that you don't know how to load it",) but after so many users posting videos on youtube and complaining, they had to stop doing it. only people that complained gor their machines repaired. Brastemp didn't do an official recall operation, advertising on tv asking all the owners of model ... from serial numer xxx to serial number xxx to call the Brastemp authorized service to replace a faulty part.
Brastemp still has the fame of good machine. The "it's not a Brastemp" marketing campaign was so well done that all the Brazilians use this phrase when they want to say something is only good, but not excellent, even 20 years after they show the tv commercial. but the Brastemp machine swe have today aren't any better than other manufacturers.
Electrolux also did the same. years ago their top loaders were great and reliable. Now they are scary and unreliable too.
Both electrolux and Brastemp/Consul (The biggest manufacturers in Brazil) are exactly the same s**t now. Machines made to last, if really lucky, for 5 years. Cheap plastic everywhere, programmed obsolescence on many vital parts and both manufacturers launching different models every year and killing older models. and after 5 years a model is killed, you can't find spare parts for it.
The baby mondial a friend just gave me needed some minor services (replace wiring harness and maybe the PCB).
The Brastemp authorized technical service didn't even wanted to look at my machine (it was on the back of my car) they just said "it's obsolete, horrible to work on them and i'm sure we won't have parts for it. But i can make you a quotation and the price you would pay to fix it I can give you as a bonus for you to buy a new Brastemp, which is bigger, handles a much bigger load and has many features that I'm sure you'd love.
I said no and went to another service (not Brastemp). The guy said "holy crap, i can't belive you found a beauty like that in so good shape". Let's see right now what does this little girl need.
He replaced the wiring harness (found the original part), the PCB, and also decided to replace bearing and water seal, even being unnecessary yet, also replaced both hoses, belt, lint filter cup and disassembled the whole machine for cleaning. watched the whole service and the machine that was looking like new, now is really new, with all vital parts replaced. And i'm sure a wonderful Brastemp like that (that is like a Brastemp) will last for at least more 30 years and I can trust that machine because it was well made.
The Brastemp we have nowadays in Brazil last the same as the first american world washers (front panel).
It's like comparing a Lady Kenmore with a Cabrio... which machine would you trust more?
|Post# 546432 , Reply# 12   9/29/2011 at 07:56 (4,455 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
Joe, I'm sorry to update you information but Wirlpool is now the World's SECOND largest manufacturer, according to NASDAQ.
Whirlpool got the first place when they bought Maytag, but Electrolux returned to the first position after they launched the Electrolux brand in the U.S. and also bought a big manufacturer in Egypt and other in Chile.
The sequence now is:
4rd Mabe (it's amazing how that company could grow so much in only a few years, they are doing a great job)
5th Haier (This comapny really scares me, the chinese are dominating the world!)
The difference among Electrolux, Whirlpool, Mabe and Haier is minimal, so at any time they can swap positions again.
Haier really scares me. Not being xenophobic, but I can't stand the idea of being spanked on the market by a chinese POS. (but they have price and that's what counts to modern consumers instead of tradition).
Decades of hard work from companies like Electrolux and Whirlpool, simply beaten by a chinese manufacturer that copied many of our innovations (as in China, the copyright laws simply doesn't exist) and they sell much cheaper and with lower quality.
In China, some Haier models are a perfect copies of Whirlpool, Electrolux and Siemens/Bosch machines. Of course they can't launch those models in our countries otherwise it would be a huge copyright scandal. But... it's scary to see a Haier Time manager or a Haier Cabrio. (with different names, of course)
|Post# 546809 , Reply# 13   10/1/2011 at 17:46 (4,453 days old) by jlbrazil (brazil)  || |
Well, considering that the biggest is not all the times the best, I prefer another brand wich is not in this list, but have quality of all these brands together .. lol
Needless to say wich brand is ;)
|Post# 546815 , Reply# 14   10/1/2011 at 19:30 (4,453 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
I agree, but we don't have MIele available in Brazil so...
But comparing qualities, Modern Miele machines are the same as the first LGs we had in Brazil.
Machines made to last.
And I still believe nothing can be compared (even modern Mieles) to the vintage (and not so old) Miele models.
It's funny... Even the vintage Brastemp, that look a lot alike american Whirlpool machines (Brastemp bought the Lady Kenmore's projects), have little technical differences that make them more dependable than a vintage Maytag, for example. If you put a Brastemp Super Luxo and a Lady Kenmore side by side and compare, you'll note the huge difference. Lady Kenmore was an amazing machine, but the brazilian version was made to last even more.
Same happened to the Brastemp mondial vs Whirlpool World Washer. In theory, they should be the same machine, same project, same parts, etc. but the american World Washer lasts the same as the first Brastemp Electronic that came after mondial and Clean (5 to 8 years), while everybody knows there are thousands of Brastemp Mondial out there celebrating their 20th anniversary without replacing a single belt or bearings or seal. That's what BRASTEMP DID. Brazilian know how, builting machines to LAST.
After Whirlpool bought Brastemp, the Brastemp machines became hundreds of times worse the american versions. You can also find a huge evidence of it if you get a Consul washer and exactly the same machine made in Brazil and sold in the US as Kenmore Portable. In this case, the american version is much better than ours.
It won't be a surprise if we discover in a few years that the Brastemp Duet Black (exactly the same Maytag Epic) is built with inferior quality parts to last much less than the american versions.
I would trust any american Whirlpool machine, but I can't trust any "Braswhirltemp".
Probably, even the Brastemp Vantage is inferior to the Whirlpool Vantage (and are exactly the same machine, built in the same plant). Again, in theory, nothing should be changed but... who knows?
|Post# 546817 , Reply# 15   10/1/2011 at 19:43 (4,453 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)  || |
By the way, just to put clear...
The first LG machines sold in Brazil were completelly different from machines around the world.
They were exploring a new market, almost nobody knew about washer-dryer combos and the best marketing is always the consumer opinions.
If you ask any owner of the first LGs, they won't change their machines for nothing. Fernando is a good example of it... His machine is heavily used day after day, never had a single issue and after years it stills look like brand new...
The machine looks exactly the same as others, but internally it has lots of different parts.
Now the LGs are exactly the same as any other manufacturer... machines made to last (if lucky) for five years. Major failure... bearings! (and they give that 10 year warranty on the motor but it's normal to any kind of motor, even the obsolete ones, to last much more than that).
The machine bites the dust, but the motor still can be replaced under warranty LOL