Thread Number: 36739
Miele Dishwasher
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Post# 546619   9/30/2011 at 12:37 (4,618 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        

mrb627's profile picture
I have begun to notice a build up of something on the interior of the machine. A cloudy looking substance that does not wash away. I suspect that it may be salt buildup from the softening system but cannot be sure.

Have any of you Miele Dishwasher owner's noticed the same thing? Any suggestions for cleaning that wont harm my machine?

Malcolm





Post# 546630 , Reply# 1   9/30/2011 at 13:02 (4,618 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture

What detergent are you using?

 

I noticed a build up, or film using Cascade.

Now I use Finish Quantem with a dose of STPP for good measure. Build up gone.


Post# 546633 , Reply# 2   9/30/2011 at 13:08 (4,618 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

That's why we still have a stash of DW detergent with STTP. If we notice streaks on the inside of our DW, we just run the next load with a STTP flavored DW detergent.
Streaks gone. Usually we only use the stuff with STTP for really dirty dishes, about once per week. We use Finish Quantum.


Post# 546641 , Reply# 3   9/30/2011 at 13:51 (4,618 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Cascade Complete

mrb627's profile picture
I am currently try to finish up a box of Cascade Complete. Then I have a healthy supply of Finish Quantum to work with. I will bust out a single Quantum pack and see if it cleans up the mess. If it does, I will chuck the rest of the Cascade.

Thanks.
Malcolm


Post# 546690 , Reply# 4   9/30/2011 at 19:57 (4,618 days old) by washmeup (scottsdale)        
Miele

washmeup's profile picture
I have a Miele and have not had any issues with build up? I am using there own tablets (Miele) that I purchased off of Amazon. They work great! Since they have changed Cascade I know they have had a lot of complaints about white build up on glass when run through dishwashers. Too bad as Cascade used to be such a awesome brand.

Post# 546693 , Reply# 5   9/30/2011 at 20:11 (4,618 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        

zipdang's profile picture
Have not had any issues with cloudiness or residue. Usually I use Ecover tablets. Water hardness here is only 1/2 - 1 grain which precludes the need for the salt softening system. That said, I was under the impression that the salt doesn't actually enter the washing chamber of the machine, but instead is used as part of an ion exchange something-or-other for the water that does enter the washing chamber. The saline portion is flushed down the drain. If that is in fact how it works, then it's probably not residue from the water softening system.

Post# 546738 , Reply# 6   10/1/2011 at 08:09 (4,618 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
First Cycle

mrb627's profile picture
I ran a wash last night with a Finish tablet. No discernible difference in the cloudiness on tub. I will continue to use the tabs this week and see if it slowly clears up. Otherwise, I will need to seek another solution.

The cloudiness appears mostly on the inside of the door and lower tub area around the water softener system. That is what made me think it might be buildup from salt.

Wondering if there is a stainless steel conditioner that can be used to clean it that wont harm any of the non-stainless parts of the machine.

Malcolm


Post# 546743 , Reply# 7   10/1/2011 at 08:41 (4,618 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
As some have suggested, perhaps it is due the the reformulation of deshwasher detergents. Results will vary by water hardness, but if your machine has a properly functioning water softener, then I wouldn't think the buildup is from hard water minerals.

When I want to gently scour without scratching, I use Bon Ami cleaning powder.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO joe_in_philly's LINK


Post# 546744 , Reply# 8   10/1/2011 at 08:42 (4,618 days old) by henry200 ()        
I had that problem once

Our water is fairly soft so initially I didn't use the softener function but thought I would give it a try and see if it improved performance.  (That would have been hard to measure since the Miele always gave absolutely spotless results except for once when I put in the rack from the grill.) The whole bottom of the tub was covered with a white film after the first load.  The dishes and pans were cloudy as well.  Once I adjusted the softener function to the minimum level the film disappeared.   Since then I've discontinued using the additional softening.  I have always used either a Finish product or Seventh Generation detergent. 


Post# 546754 , Reply# 9   10/1/2011 at 10:05 (4,618 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Perhaps it's being caused by an "overuse" of water conditioners. If you're using the salt in the machine plus the Cascade complete and/or Quaantum tabs that both have conditioners built into them? Just a thought.



Post# 546774 , Reply# 10   10/1/2011 at 12:53 (4,617 days old) by supertronic ()        
salt adjustment

Hi Malcom

i am happy owner of various miele and siemens dishwashers in places with different water hardnes on the island. I used to face the same problem a year ago and the solution was to stop fairy (cascade) detergent and start to use somat 10 which is the best dishwasher detergent in my opinion on the market. Much better than miele own detergent which is a bit better than quantum.

However the biggest problem lies with your salt setting on the machine. what is your salt setting at the moment? i suggest that you turn up at lest 4 stages your salt adjustment and you will see the film to disappear after many washes.

do not try to clean the intereior of the machine with other chemicals. danger of scratching.

just be patient.

all the best,




Post# 546791 , Reply# 11   10/1/2011 at 14:16 (4,617 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Salt Adjustment

mrb627's profile picture
I dont think the softener setting can be set manually. It adjusted itself after the first wash cycle.

I will keep an eye on it over the next week to see if it slowly fades away.

Malcolm


Post# 546792 , Reply# 12   10/1/2011 at 14:36 (4,617 days old) by supertronic ()        
am sure u can adjust it manualy

Malcom

read your manual am sure you can adjust it manually as well.

the latest miele models have dropped this feature.



Post# 546811 , Reply# 13   10/1/2011 at 18:27 (4,617 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)        

nmassman44's profile picture
I thought it was just me but I am experiencing a blue-ish effect going on with the stainless steel inner door and tank. I did make the mistake of using the new Finish dishwasher cleaner and it turned everything blue...plastics, racks, tank, door..in plastics I mean the detergent dispenser cover, salt dispenser cover and rinse aid cover, rollers, mid wash arm and the handle area for the screens, water intake and airflow covers and top airflow intake for the drying system. It took about 3 months to get the blue tint off the plastics but it stays on the tank and door. I have been using Finish Quantum, Finish powder, Cascade powder w/phosphates, Stop and Shop powder and Miele Tabs..still blue haze to tank and door....

Post# 546819 , Reply# 14   10/1/2011 at 20:06 (4,617 days old) by henry200 ()        
Blue tint

I had a bottle of Jet Dry tip over and leak inside the cupboard once, leaving a blue stain that I never was able to fully remove.


Post# 547321 , Reply# 15   10/3/2011 at 21:16 (4,615 days old) by surgilator1 (Atlanta, Georgia)        

this months consumer reports addresses this issue. its the newly formulated detergents. i found white stuff on my dispensers and door

Post# 547558 , Reply# 16   10/5/2011 at 05:35 (4,614 days old) by MikeKLondon (London)        
Easy

All you need to do is run a hot wash let the machine start filling open the door add 1 cup white vinegar and let it run I do this about every 4/5 weeks my machine look like new after 5 years. I do the same wash the washer as well

Post# 547560 , Reply# 17   10/5/2011 at 05:38 (4,614 days old) by MikeKLondon (London)        
Sorry should have posted this pic

Next Pic

Post# 547561 , Reply# 18   10/5/2011 at 05:43 (4,614 days old) by MikeKLondon (London)        
+ one more

Washer and Dryer

Post# 549486 , Reply# 19   10/15/2011 at 09:14 (4,604 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Malcolm - Any updates on your problem?


Post# 549496 , Reply# 20   10/15/2011 at 09:38 (4,604 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
or you could clean your dishwasher with some finsish diswasher cleaner thats what i use when i have to clean my dishwasher and its a kenmore talltub

Post# 549504 , Reply# 21   10/15/2011 at 09:52 (4,604 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Well...

mrb627's profile picture
I have run through about 11 cycles with the Finish tabs. Little has changed in the haze. Thinking about picking up some lemi shine and giving that a try.

I will note that changing the detergent setting to tabs on my dw has extended wash time between 20 and 30 minutes per run.

Malcolm


Post# 549929 , Reply# 22   10/17/2011 at 05:30 (4,602 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

I use quantum tabs, finish powerball and even the old ElectraSol tabs with phosphate all the time but don't bother to change the detergent setting.  don't see much difference in cleaning performance with the tab setting, but I have an older LaPerla

 

Is this haze something that can be wiped off with your hand?


Post# 549931 , Reply# 23   10/17/2011 at 06:07 (4,602 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Haze

mrb627's profile picture
No, the haze cannot be wiped off by hand. Whatever it is, it is in the Stainless Steel finish. If you wet the surface, the haze vanishes. But once it dries, the haze is right back where it was.

Haven't had the chance to pick up some Lemi-Shine. Meant to do that this weekend, but it wasn't on the grocery list and I forgot it.

Malcolm


Post# 549932 , Reply# 24   10/17/2011 at 06:22 (4,602 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Haze

ozzie908's profile picture
is it possibly the rinse agent? Have noticed similar hazing on hobart push throughs ...!

Post# 549976 , Reply# 25   10/17/2011 at 11:09 (4,601 days old) by rayjay (Carteret, New Jersey)        
Liquid Bar Keepers Friend

Malcolm, You may also want to try Liquid Bar Keepers Friend. I have a Franke double sink. This is what they recommend to keep shiny.

Ray


Post# 549991 , Reply# 26   10/17/2011 at 12:28 (4,601 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Does you model have the water softener?  If so when was the last time it performed the regeneration step?


Post# 550002 , Reply# 27   10/17/2011 at 13:49 (4,601 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Water Softener

mrb627's profile picture
Yes. My machine is an Excella. I am not sure when it did the regenration step. How can I determine that?

Malcolm


Post# 550175 , Reply# 28   10/18/2011 at 09:23 (4,601 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Malcolm. I have a Bosch with SS interior. I use Finish powerball tabs. Have never noticed a white haze. However, once a quarter I descale my machine with 1/3 cup citric acid powder and a hot wash. I think this is similar to using vinegar without the odor. ;) My machine is ten years old and the interior sparkles like new.


Post# 550188 , Reply# 29   10/18/2011 at 11:37 (4,600 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
If you are pre rinsing your dishes, you need to stop. The chemicals in dishwasher detergents need protean to work properly.If they don't get it, they try to eat away at plastic and rubber parts leaving a residue film on dishes and glassware more noticeable on the latter.I found Cascade to be the worst dishwasher detergent regarding film residue on dishes and glasses.

Post# 550253 , Reply# 30   10/18/2011 at 16:52 (4,600 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Prerinse not

mrb627's profile picture
I haven't prerinsed in well over 15 years.

Malcolm


Post# 554480 , Reply# 31   11/6/2011 at 09:21 (4,582 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
LemiShine

mrb627's profile picture
Well, after a few weeks of running the Finish tabs, I gave up on them resolving the haze on my machine. Picked up some LemiShine at the market yesterday and did a maintenance wash last night as instructed on the package. That did the trick. Haze was virtually undetectable. Expect it to be completely gone over the next few washes.

Malcolm


Post# 554760 , Reply# 32   11/7/2011 at 09:38 (4,580 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
KA scale issues (my friends' machine, not mine)

what's in it? a mild acid? I wonder if citric acid would have done the trick. I descale my washer and dishwasher four times a year with 1/4-1/3 cup of citric acid powder. My main objective is primarily descaling of the pump and plumbing inside the machine, and secondarily to shine up the SS interior, though to be honest I never get any visible residue or scale inside the machine (Bosch).

 

Oddly enough, I have friends in the same town (same water system) with a high end KA, three years old maybe,  and they always seem to have scale in their SS interior. They chose KA over Bosch because of KA's food disposer; at the time of purchase, they still had three kids at home, though today only one is still in high school. However, their old, poorly performing DW was so bad that they had to pre-rinse everything, so I doubt if the KA's disposer even gets all that much business. But I think a concern was if the kids threw in dishes that weren't scraped or pre-rinsed (never happens, mom pre-rinses EVERYTHING).

 

They gave up using Finish tabs because their detergent dispenser door wouldn't always close securely (tabs were too thick for door to close) and I think are using liquid. I advised them to use powder over liquids if the tabs didn't fit, but I think they use liquid (and they recently gave me three giant Costco canisters of Finish tabs which they can't use). Their DW always has scale on the interior, even with descaling with citric acid (I gave them a container of it as a thank you for the Finish canisters). Their dishes do come out clean. I am not sure if they use JetDry but I think they do use it. I can't figure out though why their interior always looks terrible, even after the end of a cycle.


Post# 554763 , Reply# 33   11/7/2011 at 09:45 (4,580 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Have them try Lemmi Shine.  They may have to run successive cycles to get all of it cleaned out.  I have the Kenmore Elite version of their KA and I run Lemmi Shine through mine abut every 4 to 6 months.  Not a problem and I have hard water here too.


Post# 554777 , Reply# 34   11/7/2011 at 10:58 (4,580 days old) by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN)        

mysteryclock's profile picture
Lemi-shine is pretty much concentrated citric acid. The old "Tang" trick to clean your dishwasher also relies on the citric acid in it to do the work. We have rock-hard water here in TN and Lemi-shine always gets all the filmy buildup off the DW itself and the glasses / SS flatware if it has managed to get on them.

Now, that being said, if you plan on using Lemi-shine with every load you need to be EXTRA careful to never, *ever* put anything with a porcelain finish in with the LS, or it'll be ruined. I found that out the hard way when a little LS (along with a regular DW tab) turned the outside of our lovely & shiny blue Le Creuset oval roaster completely flat matte. Oddly, the inside was fine but the outside had all the shine/polish etched away. It still works but I've yet to live that down. And yes, the LS package warns against this on the label in small print, so this was totally user error.


Post# 554778 , Reply# 35   11/7/2011 at 11:00 (4,580 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Thanks for the tips re: Lemi-Shine. Never heard of or have ever seen the product, maybe it's lurking on the hardware store's shelves and I just never noticed it. I gave them a large jar of citric acid and that did not help. I wonder if maybe their KA has a "matte" rather than shiny SS finish. I don't remember peeking at it when they first bought it, but as an occasional dinner guest in their home, I help with the dishes. At least the DW gets them clean.


Post# 554786 , Reply# 36   11/7/2011 at 12:20 (4,580 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I have found LS at my local grocery store as well as Wally World. 


Post# 558377 , Reply# 37   11/21/2011 at 18:37 (4,566 days old) by gump ()        

I too have a Miele (a Diamante), and I too had a whitish 'haze' build-up.
However, a quick wipe with CLR cleared it up immediately. Thus, I think I had a lime or calcium problem.


Post# 558404 , Reply# 38   11/21/2011 at 20:39 (4,566 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Lemi-Shine and Porcelain

launderess's profile picture
Now you know why makers of porcelain on steel washing machine tubs advised caution when using acidic substances including white vinegar in the laundry. IIRC such tubs were designed to withstand alkaline chemicals, which is natural since most laundry proudcts are base on the pH scale.


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