Thread Number: 37075
Top loader HE washer with agitator ...AND DRYER combo
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Post# 551467   10/23/2011 at 21:58 (4,619 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Guys, I've been waiting to tell this news since about 1 year ago but I had to keep my mouth shut.

Now it's official. Last Friday Electrolux launched their brand new washer/dryer combo here in Brazil.

Now some things that will make you curious about it.

1) it's a washer/dryer combo (not a stacked dryer) the clothes dry in the same drum.
2) High efficiency, but with an agitator (it means WATER AND DECENT RINSES!)
3) The drying is not condensed, but exausted. Perfect for those who don't need condenser dryers. (and it dries fast)
4) MUCH cheaper than Whirlpool Vantage, Cabrio, LG TUrbodrum, Panasonic Acquabeat, etc... AND IT REALLY DRIES)
5) 100% designed and produced in Brazil. (The Wateraid HE technology was launched in Australia years ago for marketing tests and it worked ok)
6) Probably, this will be the only agitator washer that will be on the american market in a few years.
7) It can be used like any other standard top loader, no need to worry about HE detergents or door seals/smells or clothes being shreded by washers that look like a giant blender.
8) the tub is HUGE! (Much bigger than Cabrio or standard Whirlpool or GE)
9) One of the versions (TOL) will have an internal tank to save water (Suds saver) and will be useful to make the machine much heavier for the ultra high spin speed. Up to now, it's the fastest spin ever used in a top loader, and being much heavier than a Frigidaire Unimatic, it will NEVER jump or walk.

Finally, It's going to be launched SOON in the U.S.


More news at www.electrolux.com.br... as soon as they update the website with the new family of top loader washers.
As soon as i get authorization to post pictures from it, I'll do it. Otherwise I'll post only website pictures when the machine appears there (before the end of this week)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK





Post# 551469 , Reply# 1   10/23/2011 at 22:07 (4,619 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Best news.... at this price, one could buy two of them and be able to wash/dry two loads at a time using the same footprint as a standard top loader and a dryer, with no need to transfer the load to the dryer.

Post# 551516 , Reply# 2   10/24/2011 at 07:34 (4,619 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
NEW FRIGADARE WASHER-DRYER COMBO

combo52's profile picture

I can't wait to see details, won't it be ironic if Frigidare is the company to reintroduce Americans to combs as they were one major company that didn't make them when they were owned by GMs. I have heard from a reliable source that WP is field testing combination washers dryers here in the US.

 

I have long thought that real full sized combos would be a reality again in my life time. And with the recent popularity of FL washers I figured that the time was about here. Just think this may even solve the moldy washer problem. LOL


Post# 551529 , Reply# 3   10/24/2011 at 09:50 (4,619 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
WASHER-DRYER COMBO

peteski50's profile picture
John I hope you are right. I just hope it will have quality behind it and not be a piece of trash like that LG I had!
On the WP FL washers they have a 4 to 6 hour tumble option after the wash - so if the machines are just tumbling I wonder why they cant dry especially being a lot already have heaters in them!
Peter


Post# 551530 , Reply# 4   10/24/2011 at 10:16 (4,619 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
Does the TOL model have a color touchscreen?

Post# 551539 , Reply# 5   10/24/2011 at 10:52 (4,618 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

gorenje's profile picture
If I'm not mistaken also in Japan there are top loading vertical axis washer-dryer combos.
Will be this Brasilian Electrolux like the Japanese combos?

Ingemar


Post# 551587 , Reply# 6   10/24/2011 at 14:30 (4,618 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

paulc's profile picture
Can't wait to see the pictures. I had never heard of a V/A T/L before, be interesting to see how it performs.

Post# 551588 , Reply# 7   10/24/2011 at 14:33 (4,618 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Wait a tick. This is an upright, agitator, top loading washer that also DRIES in the same tub? How the bejeebers does THAT work? I mean, I'm picturing the laundry pasted up against the tub from spin, then dried in that position. IOW, how does an upright tumble?

Post# 551597 , Reply# 8   10/24/2011 at 14:45 (4,618 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Combo!

peteski50's profile picture
I would really think that it would work like a fisher pakel top load dryer - still tumbles but you open from the top. Personally I would perfer a regular FL with window type washer / dryer.
If indeed whirlpool and frigidaire are working on something they will probably just export something from Europe and change the name. On the web you do see those TL type combos. I hope I am wrong and it is a regular FL combo!


Post# 551599 , Reply# 9   10/24/2011 at 14:49 (4,618 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
Peteski50

paulc's profile picture
Thomas said it is a T/L agitator washer, I am really curious to see how that would work.

Post# 551602 , Reply# 10   10/24/2011 at 14:54 (4,618 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        
Curious too...

newwave1's profile picture
How would that manage to dry evenly without tangling terribly?!

Darren


Post# 551604 , Reply# 11   10/24/2011 at 14:56 (4,618 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
TL Combo!

peteski50's profile picture
I remember maybe about 2 years ago we had a patent of the day GM Frigidaire type TL combo proto type design that was posted. Of course it was never made but it would have been interesting to see how it worked. It was TL but I think as I remember the tub was somewhat slanted. Does anyone remember this patent? I think it was from the early 60s.


Post# 551610 , Reply# 12   10/24/2011 at 15:34 (4,618 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Haier

mrb627's profile picture
Didn't Haier have a combo TL machine for a while?

Malcolm


Post# 551613 , Reply# 13   10/24/2011 at 15:50 (4,618 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

gorenje's profile picture
A Japanese vertical axis pulsator top loading washer-dryer.

From what I have understood this is a hang to dry system, but I'm not quite sure because on the internet page you can see the 9.0 KG vs. 4.5 KG sign which I presume it is the washing and drying capacity. So the hang to dry system majbe can be an option. But still I dont understand how a top loader can dry the load (or half the load) without wrinkling and creasing the clothes.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO gorenje's LINK


Post# 551638 , Reply# 14   10/24/2011 at 17:47 (4,618 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
Ingemar

paulc's profile picture
Thanks for posting that link, tried the translate function on google but the english made little sense! Am really curious to know how these machines dry a load without creasing to.

Post# 551649 , Reply# 15   10/24/2011 at 18:33 (4,618 days old) by verizonbear (Glen Burnie )        
2006 Equator Model ?????

verizonbear's profile picture
Hmm , what ever happened to this model ????

CLICK HERE TO GO TO verizonbear's LINK


Post# 551683 , Reply# 16   10/24/2011 at 21:36 (4,618 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Equator!

peteski50's profile picture
This is a picture of the washer / dryer I had. Actually mine was almost the same except I had the series before with 5 water temps. (you know energy savings) - it used a ton of water and washed quickly and clean. The drying wasent great with the 110V but I lived with it. I am so sorry I gave it up for that horrible LG. We really didnt know how good we had it.
Peter


Post# 551785 , Reply# 17   10/25/2011 at 11:51 (4,617 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

laundromat's profile picture
Well Pete,

That model (EZ3200) was made in Italy by Philco of Italy.. The current ones, since 2001, have been made in China and are horrific.The so called top loading combo was a major disaster.They couldn't get the "bugs" out of the electronic control board and couldn't even get it to run in the shop there.Equator's headquarters has relocated and are now in California.


Post# 551910 , Reply# 18   10/25/2011 at 21:35 (4,617 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
splendide

the equator pictured by peteski50 is almost an exact twin to my 2002 splendide
combomatic 6100E-only difference is my splendide has a chrome door surround,
everything else is exactly the same as the equator!
This is a little 24",115v,combo with water cooled condenser dryer action.
It's my small loads daily driver and is an effective washer-dryer mode is less
effective but gets the job done given enough time...about 2hrs


Post# 551921 , Reply# 19   10/26/2011 at 00:07 (4,617 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
GE TOL!

peteski50's profile picture
GE offers a Overnight Ready cycle on TOL FL which offers wash and dry for small loads. It even has a lint filter for this cycle. It is so fustrating that we had this technology so many years ago and it is touture to get it back.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO peteski50's LINK


Post# 551922 , Reply# 20   10/26/2011 at 00:08 (4,617 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
GE TOL

peteski50's profile picture
see pages 9 and 10 about this Overnight Ready cycle!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO peteski50's LINK


Post# 552036 , Reply# 21   10/26/2011 at 14:20 (4,616 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Finally some news update, pictures and technical details.

1) the machine has two agitators to move the clothes.
2) the secondary agitator is also used to move the clothes during the wash, increasing A LOT the rollover action.
3) it can wash and dry the same amount of clothes. 12kg of dry clothes (7kg considering wet clothes)
more news at electrolux website. If you need some help translating, please ask me and I'll be glad to help.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK


Post# 552044 , Reply# 22   10/26/2011 at 14:48 (4,616 days old) by spiralator60 (Los Angeles)        
Electrolux Washer-Dryer Combo

Thomas,

Thanks for the updated information! There are a couple of questions:

What is the listed price for this machine in Brazil?

Is the machine larger or wider in size than a typical top-loading washer?

Thanks again.


Post# 552052 , Reply# 23   10/26/2011 at 15:03 (4,616 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
How does this machine move the clothes to dry them? Does the tub bounce? Does it rotate on it's side?

Post# 552066 , Reply# 24   10/26/2011 at 15:50 (4,616 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture
Lo and behold, I can read almost all of that (though I can't "speak" B. Portugese).

Still not clear how it 'tumbles' to dry. Can't just leave the ropas glommed up on the spin drum.


Post# 552081 , Reply# 25   10/26/2011 at 16:40 (4,616 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
aribilab

paulc's profile picture
looking pics 3 and 4 in the link it appears there are plastic paddles attached to the agitator going halfway up the side of the tub. Maybe these are used to move the laundry through the tub when drying?

Post# 552084 , Reply# 26   10/26/2011 at 17:00 (4,616 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY)        
T/L Combo

macboy91si's profile picture
It still seems incredibly inefficient. Also, if the Electrolux/Frigidaire quality there is anything like here with the toploaders, I'd rather head off to the creek for laundry next week.

Still begs to differ... Why? a F/L would provide an easier alternative and have more capacity probably to boot, not to mention water savings. I like T/L machines, but I'm not sure how onboard I'd be with this.

An odd bird indeed...


-Tim


Post# 552091 , Reply# 27   10/26/2011 at 17:21 (4,616 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Wow. 6 hours to wash and dry a full load of jeans.


Post# 552134 , Reply# 28   10/26/2011 at 22:09 (4,616 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Price: I don't know the retail price yet. For me, it costs 400 reais (considering I can buy it straight from the factory using an employees only sales channel). Anyway, the retail price will be a little more expensive than a standard top loader washer but won't be as expensive as a front loader washer/dryer. Of course, the retail price will be much higher for the next months,as it's a state of the art machine.

Size: It's the average size for top loaders in brazil. The biggest drum available in Brazil washes up to 15.2 kg, according to ABNT standards. most of the machines are between 10 and 12 kg capacity.
By the way, I did a mistake above. The capacity is 12kg dry to wash and 12kg wet to dry (7kg dry to dry)

The experior size (footprint) of this machine is exactly the same as any ordinary top loader washer in Brazil.

How does it dry?
The machine has two agitators. The main agitator is like the one on any other top loader. the second agitator is around the main agitator and covers whe whole bottom of the machine. It has some low profile fins that "wipe" the drum.
Both agitators run during the wash and the drying cycle. During the wash, the second agitator helps increasing rollover, and during the drying, it helps moving the clothes using random movements of it, the first agitator and the drum, plus the air jets (strong blades of air) that make the clothes float.

The only SMALL chance to get clothes pancaked against the drum after the spin is if a too small (less than 1kg) load (and coincidently very small garments like socks only) is washed. In this case, the user has to release the clothes manually from the drum.

It doesn't remove wrinkles as well as a tumble dryer, but it also doesn't create creases or jams the clothes into a huge ball.

This machine also has the highest cleaning rate in Brazil, considering cold water washes. It has no internal heater and it's cold fill only.

As I said, it's a whole family of washers. (and will also be launched in the U.S., Canada and other countries, just like the whirlpool world washer.) Other versions will also be made. This one isn't HE yet. (it has the Wateraid drum, but more holes were made on it for this version) The HE version has the same drum with only a few holes and the wateraid recirculation system, that recovers the water from the gap between the drum and the tub.
Although, this version already has the ecorinse option (spin rinse that works)


Considering high end models from competitors, it's the "créme de la créme".

Whirlpool has the Brastemp Vantage. It's the same american Whirlpool vantage, but retail price is higher than 7 thousand american dollars, only the washer, plus more than 8 thousand dollars for the dryer. (The price is simply ridiculous and I don't think they will find any consumer stupid enough to pay the same as a brand new car for a washer and a dryer)

Lg top loader... I don't need to say anything about it... :(

Panasonic has aquabeat... same as LG... giant blender...

GE's best machine is a standard top loader made by Mabe. The same models available in Mexico, with minor differences.



.... and none of the machines above dry.


Drying times:

The machine can take almost 8 hours to finish the longest cycle (considering wash and dry) but the power consumption is very low. It won't be annoying if the user starts the washer at night. By the next morning, the clothes will be ready.

In hot cities like mine, the drying times can be much shorter (maybe more than 50% shorter)


Post# 552139 , Reply# 29   10/26/2011 at 22:35 (4,616 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

All that said, the are some points that we have to note.

1) Consumers in Brazil don't use dryers. Only a very small (almost insignificant) number of consumers have dryers at home. and if we consider only thos ewho have adryer, more than 90% never uses it, except if they really need to dry something in a hurry and it's raining.

2) Front loader technology: Consumers in Brazil still afraid of front loaders. The most dumb talks are that they leak water, one can't open the door after it fills,it won't clean, it won't rinse, and some traditions are difficult to change. "my grandmother had a top loader, my mother had a top loader, i MUST have a top loader, blah, blah, blah.

3) Nowadays, it's more than normal to see consumers starting the machine at night and hanging the laundry by the morning. This washer/dryer is attractive because it costs only a little bit more than a washer, with the vantage of drying. Power consumption is VERY LOW. One would start to set it to dry everything without being too worried about the electricity bill.
Also, it will affect positively the time. While one would hang the clothes by the morning to dry and wait even more before ironing or folding, with this machine the clothes would be ready to iron or to fold by the morning.

It doesn't take 6 or 7 hours to dry! This time is considering the whole cycle. Cycles in Brazil are much longer than standard american top loaders as all of the cycles use lots of soaking time. Some cycles can take more than 2 hours only to wash. Doing the same in a front loader washer/dryer would take the same time, plus spend lots of energy and even more water (condenser)


And finally, as I said before, some asian machines only blows cold air on clothes. The cycle would also take the whole night too, but it only reduces the drying time after the clothes are hanged or dried in the dryer. This is the first machine IN THE WORLD that really dryes the load.


Post# 552210 , Reply# 30   10/27/2011 at 08:23 (4,616 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

paulc's profile picture
Thanks for the info, certain sounds like an interesting machine.

Post# 552331 , Reply# 31   10/27/2011 at 20:34 (4,615 days old) by jlbrazil (brazil)        

Considering that an ordinary top loader from Electrolux with no hot water costs generally 1200-1300 reais , I don't think that 3400 is just "a little more"!!
BTW , a Samsung or LG front loader washer/dryer costs 2100-2200 nowdays!



CLICK HERE TO GO TO jlbrazil's LINK


Post# 552360 , Reply# 32   10/28/2011 at 01:22 (4,615 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Everything at Fastshop is much more expensive than on any other store.

It's a premium store, with all the fancy stuff one would wait.


Also, it's a brand new model in Brazil it's too normal to put outrageous prices on new things. After a few months, the price decreases a lot.

The expected price for it is 1800 reais (900 dollars)

Considering the price of a dryer, for a consumer that would probably use it only a few times per year, it's a deal! (and won't waste more space than a standard top loader.



Post# 552391 , Reply# 33   10/28/2011 at 07:44 (4,615 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

The 6 hour cycle caught my eye also. That might be a deal breaker.

Post# 552398 , Reply# 34   10/28/2011 at 08:32 (4,615 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

THis cycle is ok with the habits here.
Most of the users start the washer at night and go to bed.
By the morning they hang the clothes to dry.

Instead of hanging and wait even more time to get the clothes ready, the load will be 100% dry by the morning.

And power consumption is almost irrelevant because it's balanced by the energy that won't be used as most of the clothes won't need to be ironed.


Post# 552399 , Reply# 35   10/28/2011 at 08:42 (4,615 days old) by verizonbear (Glen Burnie )        
Marketing to USA

verizonbear's profile picture
I remember reading an interview with a Whirlpool marketing executive on why combos are not marketed in the US. She stated that market research shows the average turnaround time ( wash to dry completion ) that US consumers tolerate is 1 hour and 30 minutes. Now a 220 volt or Gas VENTED large capacity unit may be marketable if it had a 1000 or more RPM spin. I think combos are catching on, but it's more a a niche market than mainstream.

Post# 552400 , Reply# 36   10/28/2011 at 08:42 (4,615 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Well, consumption and drying times is almost the same as in a standard front loader washer dryer.

The only difference is that it's a top loader with a center post agitator which brazilians love.

People won't need to switch to a front loader and "change habits" to enjoy the benefits of awasher/dryer combo.

Personally, i prefer front loaders, i love front laoders and I will always like them, but we have to do things thinking of consumers. That's what Electrolux's slogan says.
For the brazilian consumers that want an agitator washer, Electrolux has more than 10 completelly different models, each one with it's pros and cons. there are also front loader washers, front loader dryers, front loader washer/dryer combos and an impeller top loader. Now, it's simply one more option for our consumers to choose. And the whole range goes from the very cheap washer to the premium top loader W/D combo. A perfect match to each kind of consumer.



Post# 552402 , Reply# 37   10/28/2011 at 09:14 (4,615 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Whirlpool Combo

mrb627's profile picture
I always thought that if Whirlpool built a Combo that was 30 - 36 inches wide, it would also be more stable during spinning. Perhaps dump the wash/rinse water to a holding tank in the base and only pump it out at the end of the cycle after the spin. The drum could be bigger too, allowing a full size load to be processed.

Malcolm


Post# 552496 , Reply# 38   10/28/2011 at 20:48 (4,614 days old) by A440 ()        
Interesting John

That is awesome if WP is actually field testing WP Combo's. I bet they will be great and have many of the features as the original WP Combo's. One thing that comes to mind would be the constant spray during the wash and rinse.
Why have you not tried to get one of the combo's to field test for WP. I am sure that they know your input would be very valuable. It is not like you don't know how all of their current to very earliest machines work!
Brent


Post# 552522 , Reply# 39   10/28/2011 at 23:53 (4,614 days old) by spiralator60 (Los Angeles)        
Some More Questions

Thomas,

Thank you for the detailed explanations that you have given. There are a couple of questions that remain:

Is there a fan or blower that moves air in the tub to assist in drying, along with the movements of the agitators?

How quiet or noisy is the machine when it is running? This is a big concern for many of us if the machine is operating late at night for more than two or three hours.

Thanks again!


Post# 552776 , Reply# 40   10/30/2011 at 10:32 (4,613 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

The machine has two blowers

one of them is heated and is what dryes the clothes.
the second is only for the "air blade" on the bottom of the tub. it gets the air from the tub (already hot)and make the clothes float.

The machine is as silent as a standard front loader washer/dryer, maybe a little bit more noisier due to the air flow on the exaust, but it's not annoying.

I can say it's even less noisier than a standard dryer, because there arent so many buttons, zippers and other hard surfaces surely banging on the drum on every tumble.
of course there are some of these noises, but much less as the whole load isn't tumbling 100% of the time.


Post# 552785 , Reply# 41   10/30/2011 at 11:34 (4,612 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

And during the wash, the only noise one can hear is the water falling from the dispenser during the fill and the turbulence caused by the agitator.
During the spin, only the water from the clothes being sprayed on the tub and the pump cavitating (it turns on and off several times to reduce even more the noise).

During the ecorinse (spray sinse) it's obviously more noisier too because of the water falling straight on the clothes and spraying randomly almost everywhere

The motors can't be heared at all, even if you run it next to your ear and there's absolutelly no transmission. (one double motor for the two agitators) and other to spin), all of them direct drive.

The machine also has a balance sensor and uses the drying movements to balance the load during the spin if it's out of balance.



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