Thread Number: 37235
new belt drive whirlpools/kenmores/ amana's
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Post# 553710   11/2/2011 at 19:41 (4,613 days old) by WP-Dude22 (Trinidad and Tobago )        

hey what do you guys think about these new beltdrive wp ne good
what are your experiences with them???
and do you get any problems with them
there dont seem to be much posts on these or how they run per say

Post# 553716 , Reply# 1   11/2/2011 at 20:35 (4,613 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

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I have one and I do like it despite a few drawbacks...

-The lid lock- annoying but relatively easily defeated

-The fill flume- EXTREMELY slow. It takes a good 7-10 minutes to fill for a large load depending on the temperature.

-The temp selector- cold is well, cold, shocker. Warm is 85F, my definition of cool and hot is 110F, not hot enough.

-The cycle times are excruciatingly long for a TL washer. A standard normal cycle with one fabric softener rinse takes over an hour. Mainly due to fill times, sensing, shifting to and from agitate and spin, and the stupid brake-less tub taking FOREVER to coast to a stop. It also does this annoying thing where it spins on low speed for several minutes then coasts to a complete stop and then spins again on high speed for several more minutes.

On the plus side, the wash action is very thorough and gentle, the clothes come out quite dry from the spin, and it's pretty to look at! Here are two short vids I took of my machine running.

Post# 553721 , Reply# 2   11/2/2011 at 21:20 (4,613 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

I do not like them.

Below I am quoting my own comments that I made on one my own videos, with some edits to keep them on-topic. (NOTE: These are not directed to anyone, just talking about the machine itself)

"A machine taking an hour or more to do ONE load is ridiculous. they have all these "fancy" electronic parts now that are no where near as reliable as the mechanical parts. Nothing starts "immediately" when you turn on the machine. The fill takes forever, and the agitation... oh god. And without the timer, you have no idea how long into the cycle the machine is. Those little lights below where the timer SHOULD be, do not count. The lights only tell you what cycle it is on, but they do not tell you how far along they are in that certain cycle. Is it 5 minutes into the wash? is it 10 minutes into the wash? The good ol' mechanical timer shows you that."

Post# 553736 , Reply# 3   11/2/2011 at 22:49 (4,613 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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I like your comments overall Dave, but how do you know that the electronic parts are no where near as reliable as the older mechanical parts?

Post# 553740 , Reply# 4   11/2/2011 at 23:12 (4,613 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

Through many reviews and vids of electronically controlled machines, not just these, I have seen things such as error codes and things of the like. That doesn't happen with mechanical ones.

Of course, the "quality" of things today may also be to blame for this as I know the 1986 machines such as the electronic Kenmores that Nick (whirlykenmore) got, if I recall correctly from what he told me, only had a couple of connections re soldered.

Now are mechanicals 100% perfect? Of course not, but from what I have seen and from my own experiences, they have been much more reliable.

Post# 553742 , Reply# 5   11/2/2011 at 23:56 (4,613 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Good videos, Jamie.

I have a good friend that bought a Maytag version of this washer a year or so ago, replacing a 1996 Hotpoint washer. He loves it. Sounds a bit different and takes longer, but for someone who just wants wet clothes stuck to the sides of the huge tub when he opens the lid, it's perfect.

Post# 553753 , Reply# 6   11/3/2011 at 02:22 (4,613 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

For my experience the mechanical washer transmissions seem to last longer than "electronic" ones-after all we have mechanical devices that can last DECADES with only minimal maintenance.A washer transmission is one of them.A lightening hit or power surge will kill the "electronic"one.that is why I don't use my newer KA dishwasher-so far TWO timer boards-old KA NONE-still strong.A cinema film projector can be another mechanical device that can last decades-some film projectors taken out of service to be replaced with digital ones have been showing movies for close to 70 years!A doubt that a new digital projector will last nearly that long.

Post# 553796 , Reply# 7   11/3/2011 at 08:02 (4,613 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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I was merely putting this question out there, no one here including me can diffidently answer it. We replace boards and panels every day on washer, dryers, dishwashers and ovens, but twenty years the customer parts shelves were filled timers, selector switches and thromostats waiting to be installed. Years ago there were many washers and DWs that had nearly a 100% chance of needing a new timer in its 10 - 15 year average life span. And it is definitely true that appliance makers do not use the highest quality electronics as they as always are trying to keep cost of building down to the minimum, but thats nothing new. 

Post# 553804 , Reply# 8   11/3/2011 at 09:11 (4,613 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
My coment on this washer

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Well here is my coment on this washer and my toughs since when my actual set breaks i think that companys like whirlpool kenmore maytag if they went to keep up on the market should stick to making washers where we can turn the dial to the wash time we need like this model and also i might be 1 that wash in cold water and warm water bed sheets when not sick and 1% of the time hot water when sick and need to kill the germs from a cold put at least a TRUE WARM WATER WASH TEMP AND A FULL HOT WATER WASH TEMP when its needed (sorry fir using all caps for this part)and also put a decent fill and skip all this sensing part as well as putting a full spin well this is my 2 cents in this thread. and also for top loaders bring back a true warm rinse temp.

Post# 553807 , Reply# 9   11/3/2011 at 09:22 (4,613 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
I have mixed feelings about electronics in appliances

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In some cases, electronics allow functions that a mechanical timer could not perform on its own. Machines that "think" may offer interesting cycle variations, etc. but in 2003 when I got my GE Spectra range (it came with the new house) I repeatedly asked myself "And why do I need this keypad vs. the function knob and temp dial that was on my 1990 GE?". The jury is still deliberating on that one. I would presume that at some point the board will fry in my current GE and I'll be faced with replacing the unit or paying a ransom for a new board - things which never would have happened to the 1990 range.

That said, John is right - timers go bad too. In fact, both my 1980 built Kenmore washers that are installed right now did timer related things last weekend that tell me dead spots are developing. In one, the motor briefly turned off then back on as the timer was advancing during spin. This is VERY common in Mallory timers used in WP washers from the 1970s and 1980s. The other machine, also with a Mallory timer, actually shut off in between increment advances, also in spin. It was funny because I noticed a certain early silence in the garage, went out to investigate, and the machine turned back on as I was about 12 feet away from it, almost as if it thought to itself "oh crap, here he comes, I'd better get with it!".

My point is that yes, electronics aren't perfect. I fail to see why they're necessary sometimes, and they cause premature replacement of appliances (and thus cause waste). But, what they replaced wasn't perfect either, not at least when it came to timers and other controls in appliances. I'm not sure about movie projectors....


Post# 553808 , Reply# 10   11/3/2011 at 09:27 (4,613 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

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Pierre -

Warm rinses are gone. Energy guide regulations won't allow them in the U.S., maybe not in Canada either.

If you want that Estate washer with an electro-mechanical timer, you may want to get one in the next few months - their days are very numbered. That's why I want a new Speed Queen, just to have one of the last of a very long lived breed.


Post# 553812 , Reply# 11   11/3/2011 at 10:14 (4,613 days old) by DirectDriveDave ()        

I definitely agree with what tolivac had said.

before 2000 (when my grandparents were still here), our 1990 machines went through 6 people in one house. To this day, the only repair that washer ever had were agitator dogs. The transmission, timer, pump, motor coupling, you name it; all those mechanical things, 21 years of age and still going.

Post# 553813 , Reply# 12   11/3/2011 at 10:21 (4,613 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        

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the electronic boards are cheaper to manufacture. Whether or not that is true surely isn't evident to the consumer when they are charged a king's ransom for a replacement.

Although, I think the only manufacturer that doesn't overprice the spare parts is Fisher and Paykel. Their pricing seems to be quite reasonable from a consumer standpoint.


Post# 553846 , Reply# 13   11/3/2011 at 12:48 (4,613 days old) by KenmoreBD (Mass, usa )        

Also I have a timer on DD lock up before, that was a pain. The only thing I hate is the fact that electronics have been known to have issues with steam. You would think someone would have pointed this out to the big wigs.


Post# 554008 , Reply# 14   11/4/2011 at 06:54 (4,612 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
Electronic vs Mechanical Timers

Well, think of it this way..

When a Printed Circuit Board is manufactured, the stages of the boards production are usually done through a robotic process which involves a series of chemical dips. The photomasking on the boards is all done with a special type of printer.

After the boards are made, they're put through an automatic assembly line. A high speed robot automatically places the surface mounted parts on the board and also any smaller through hole components. The board then goes through a wave soldering tank.

When those purely touch control machines were released back in the 1980's, I could see how that would have significantly reduced the amount of labor to manufacture.

Compare that to the actual production of a mechanical timer, which I'm sure isn't done with as much robotics or with as much automation. I'm sure back in the 40's/50's it was a very labor intensive process to manufacture one. My guess though is that since then, some manufacturing machines have been designed to work with automating some of the steps to assembly.

I'm not too familiar with how they actually make mechanical washing machine timers, but I can certainly say that electronics make for a much more automated process which doesn't really involve a lot of human intervention.

The reason why the electronic boards cost so much isn't so much the labor to assemble one, it's the amazing amount of markup they put on the part. I don't believe for a second that a $1500 control board has $1500 worth of parts on it. Maybe $200 worth, perhaps.

Sorry for the lecture, but I thought I'd just mention that.

Post# 554434 , Reply# 15   11/6/2011 at 00:40 (4,610 days old) by jbinflorida ()        

I bought one of these washers last July. I got the basic Kenmore version with the regular dual action agitator. So far it has been a great washing machine! I actually like it better than my 12 year Whirlpool. It seems to spin out the clothes better and I can set it to do a full deep rinse which I really like.

I hope it proves to be a reliable design like the direct drive units were.

Post# 554454 , Reply# 16   11/6/2011 at 06:42 (4,610 days old) by stainfighter (Columbia, SC)        
Pierre, Pierre....

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Your posts are so entertaining :). Since you want features that are now rare, en mass, why not buy a rebuilt TL? It will have true HOT and WARM options that you are always quick to reply your next machine should have. Locally I know of several businessmen that rebuild these from the early 90's and later (depending on age and features) for btw $150 and $250...and, this is my only post...LOL

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