Thread Number: 37313
The last designs il post on here..i bet everyone is tired of them now.
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Post# 554824   11/7/2011 at 15:49 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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this is most likly the last time i will post some of my appliance designs on here and as the thread title suggest i think everyone is almost fed up with them.

however having just completed this collection last night that i am really happy with i felt i had to post it.

Any opinions and advise is appreciated, the more the better.

anyway...here it is: The Winter Collection of Appliances by ADAMS:
First the Range together then separately as you can see them better separate.



Post# 554825 , Reply# 1   11/7/2011 at 15:54 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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the Washer


Post# 554835 , Reply# 2   11/7/2011 at 16:24 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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next is the Dryer

Post# 554836 , Reply# 3   11/7/2011 at 16:25 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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and now the Dishwasher

Post# 554837 , Reply# 4   11/7/2011 at 16:25 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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and lastly the Fridge/Freezer

Post# 554898 , Reply# 5   11/7/2011 at 20:17 (4,403 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
internals

now that you came up with attractive exterior design,time to design the machinery
underneath before going into production!:D Are they going to be properly U.K.
made appliances?


Post# 554912 , Reply# 6   11/7/2011 at 21:36 (4,403 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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These look cleanly functional.

Post# 554970 , Reply# 7   11/8/2011 at 03:08 (4,403 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Heyas Ariston4life.

What would an instruction manual look like for them? I've noticed some appliance manufacturers use the manual as a selling feature to show off the features and functionality of a machine so the user can use it more effectively.

From my point of view, the washer and dryer would be very confusing to operate and a manual would be required reading. The Dishwasher looks a bit more intuitive to operate, but still has a few buttons I would have to read up on.

Then again, the design philosophy between European and North American machines are completely different. I've always found a lot of European designs to be very non-intuitive. For example, some symbols which are fairly universal in Europe don't exist in North America. (Like the symbols found on V-Zug washers.) Or using letters or numbers to signify cycle types, but the description on the front panel is very short or not there at all. Like I might see "Cycle F-Sup. FabriCare". What is that? What does it do? Why would I want to use it?

Perhaps if you wrote operators manuals for these concepts, it would help you think about the ergonomics of them and perhaps would make them more North American friendly. :)


Post# 554978 , Reply# 8   11/8/2011 at 03:45 (4,403 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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It can and will be done... The manuals that is..

Thdy will be Made either in Ireland or the UK

As to their internals... Think... Bendix 7147A. Only better and they would have a lifespan of a miele machine
If ariston hadnt already used it our slogan would be
... On and on and on...
Check back later for manuals and any other info that is requested.


Post# 554984 , Reply# 9   11/8/2011 at 04:15 (4,403 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

I apologize for the lengthy post...

I just thought I should comment on another thing in this thread, since I was thinking about it.

At a lot of companies, there are entire research teams dedicated to figuring out how to make their products more ergonomic and intuitive to use, while reducing the amount of possible user error which could happen if the user doesn't read the manual.

One of the biggest philosophies at Apple for example, is that they wanted to make the computer extremely intuitive and simple to use, for someone who doesn't understand computers. This is exactly why they've become so big as a company.

One of the things I've learned in life is that if someone can find out an incorrect way to use a machine, they will. This especially applies to appliances.

Just to put things into perspective, here's a video of someone with an LG waveforce washer who attempted to wash a king sized comforter using the default "Cottons" setting.




The problem was, both the person was wrong and the machine was wrong. The person should have known to use the "Bulky" cycle, but they didn't, presumably because they didn't read the manual. On the other hand, the machine should have known there was an unusual problem and compensated for it, but it didn't.

The end result is disaster. Even worse, it's things like this that can destroy a company because an engineer didn't think that this could happen.

So, even though I think it's great that you are drawing up these designs, the problem is, you shouldn't be using what you see in your house as an example. You should be rethinking how one should interact with their machines. You have to make them "Idiot Proof" while still allowing for enough functionality and features for the more advanced user to utilize.

There are people at Ariston and Indesit who get paid to think of things like this every day. When the engineering staff meet up with these designers and product teams, they determine these exact answers to these questions. The companies that make a product easy to use are the ones that sell the most product, right?

It's one thing to propose a washer for example, which spins at 2000 RPM. How do you stop a user from telling it to spin that fast with a load of very heavy items, which could potentially destroy the machine? Better yet, how do you engineer the machine to take that user error into account so it doesn't do that?

One individual I read about in another forum was complaining about how his Miele washer had destroyed all of his clothing. It turned out he was using Persil and the default cottons setting with all of his clothing, expecting it would wash all of his laundry perfectly. Of course, the hot water made the coloured items bleed into his whites and the Persil faded everything. From the users perspective, the machine was a piece of junk, but the machine only did was it was told to do. The machine wasn't really suitable for the user because the user didn't know how to operate it properly.

What the user ended up doing instead was getting rid of his Miele and getting a conventional Top loading Speed Queen washer, because it had the settings he knew what to do with.

In your drawings, what I see above would be something I would see in a European Household. To me, it's bizarre, strange, confusing and complicated. For you, you've seen designs like this all of your life so you know what to expect and you would know how to use it. What I see is something which a typical North American wouldn't be used to.

So, before you open up your graphics program and start drawing out what you'd like to see in your house, ask yourself, "How would I design something to be idiot proof, yet give me all of the functionality I wanted?" Better yet.. Think of the process behind what you would like to do when you do laundry.

What would you do when you approach the machine? What buttons would you want to push, dials to twist, etc and in what order? What would you expect to see on the display? What sort of feedback would you expect from the appliance?

To put things into a clearer perspective, how would you do it if you never ever did laundry before in your life and didn't know anything about it?

Then start asking yourself questions like, "How would I stop the machine if I needed to?" ... Or, "What happens if I use the wrong settings or didn't push the right buttons? Or even push them at all?"

Like anything, user interface is a process. Considering that these are appliances, it should be simple, intuitive, easy to use yet flexible and powerful. The less someone has to think about what they need to do to get the machine to do what they want it to, the better.

More to the point, if a user has to delve into a 500-page instruction manual, they're not going to read it, they just want it to work for them NOW with minimal effort. This is why I asked you to think about what an instruction manual would look like for your designs.

Find someone with an Apple iPhone and just try calling your home with it. Ask yourself how many pages of instructions you had to read before you could do it. I guarantee you'll say "Zero."

FYI, Technical writers get paid well to design and write operation manuals for equipment. They provide input into the user processes and are the last point before a user calls a support line to ask about how to do something. Getting practice writing technical manuals is a very valuable skill, especially when it comes to appliance design and engineering.

If you can do that, then what is a concept now becomes a reality. If you do it right, you can change the way the user thinks before they use the machine.. and you change their thinking to the way you want them to think. That's such a powerful concept, isn't it? :-)


Post# 554987 , Reply# 10   11/8/2011 at 04:43 (4,403 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
Things to think about...

Before you go any further with any other designs, look at it from my perspective.

Theoretically, I have six pairs of fictional jeans in my laundry basket. I just walked up to the fictional washer you designed.

I open the door, put the jeans in, close the door. I open up the dispenser and put in the detergent.

Now what?

Well, I see a power button so I push that. The machine comes to life. OK.. I see a dial so I turn it until I see the display say something which kind of resembles what I want to wash... Of course, I'm going to turn that dial all 360 degrees, through all sixteen positions until the display says something useful.

At that stage, I'm hoping that something saying "Jeans" or "Denim" comes up on the display, but I know that most washers work best on the cottons setting, so I'll probably just use that.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do, but I do see a button labelled with a play/pause symbol, which is something I'm familiar with, so I'll push it and hope that the machine does something useful.

Now, let's say that for your fictional machine, it uses a 2000 RPM spin cycle on the Cottons setting. A serious case of user error has now happened because, Unfortunately, page 23 of the fictional instruction manual (Which doesn't really exist, but should) says, "DO NOT WASH JEANS ON THE COTTONS SETTING!" ... So, after it tried to ramp up for the spin, the machine noticed an unbalanced condition and used a slower, delicate spin instead of destroying itself.

Unfortunately, the jeans came out wet at the end of the load and my conclusion as a user is that there is something wrong with the machine. A service call later and the lady on the phone says, "Oh, you should use position 14 for Denim. That's the "WORKCL" cycle."

Of course, at this point in time, I'm angry because nobody told me this and I was too lazy to read the manual. My next action will be to either read the instruction manual so I know better next time, or take the washer back and find something easier to use, using the excuse that it doesn't get my clothes dry.

This is exactly what a user is going to think and this is probably what will happen. This is certainly not how you want them to think.

I do technical support for computers for a living, I deal with this every day and computers are infinitely more complex. :-)

So, What do you think the solution to this problem would be? If you know the answer, that's what will pay the bills if you became a product engineer at one of these companies.


Post# 554992 , Reply# 11   11/8/2011 at 05:05 (4,403 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
One last comment, I promise...

Well, it's 3:48 AM here and I'm a bit tired... I promise this is my last comment for the night and then I'm going to bed...

I apologize if I sound like I'm patronizing you Mr. Ariston4life. It's a good exercise to think about what you want something to be like and then describe it in every imaginable detail.

However, the reality of the situation is that you can say you want this, or that, or design this, that and the other thing, but until you actually do it in real life, you won't be taken seriously.

The world is full of people who talk about doing things, but they don't do them. If you have a real dream and a true dream, something you can be completely passionate about and it consumes you, then only you can make it happen.

The world is full of excuses and it's easy to let those excuses crush your dreams, but even the biggest dreamers did things that nobody said they could do, but only because they did actually do them. They put their lives on the line and risked everything so they could do it too.

There is a lot of engineering which goes into building an appliance. Any appliance. It's a lot of work and a lot harder than just drawing something in a program. There's electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, Quality Assurance, etc, etc.

If you are really serious about this and you want to make something like this a reality, go to University and get a Mechanical Engineering degree. Learn how to design something better than everyone else then build it. Get all of the right people to help you market it to the public.

You can fantasize about this all you want, but at the end of the day, results are what matter. When you know how a refrigerator works, you can build one. When you know how to fabricate a cabinet to put it in, you can build that too. As much as I hate to say this man, a drawing won't clean my clothes. :-)

I wish you the best of luck and I honestly hope that you find a career path which makes your dreams become a reality.


Post# 555063 , Reply# 12   11/8/2011 at 11:44 (4,403 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
ariston4life

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These are all brilliant designs so i would please like to see more!

Post# 555064 , Reply# 13   11/8/2011 at 11:46 (4,403 days old) by aquarius8000 ()        

Nice designs Luke! how about a intergrated and compact family!

Post# 555079 , Reply# 14   11/8/2011 at 12:51 (4,403 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Qualin makes some good points, and all things that are worth considering when designing.

A few questions on the machines that I would ask, if they were real and I were looking to buy them:
- What's the panel in the bottom of all three machines that looks like a filter on the washer?
- What is the difference between a pots cycle and a pans cycle on the dishwasher?
- What is the difference with the timed cycles on the dryer, and why does only one have cooldown? It seems there's hot and cool selectors as buttons...

It's interesting seeing these, I'm sure many of us have sketched machines and tech things in the past.


Post# 555094 , Reply# 15   11/8/2011 at 13:40 (4,402 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
My design...

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Not a patch on Luke's but here we are...

The Nolan Superwash 1500

- 1500rpm
- 7.5kg
- Super paddles
- Ultimate tumble system
- Eco wash at 25 degrees in 27 minutes
- 15 Wash Programmes
- 329 RRP

Jacob


Post# 555118 , Reply# 16   11/8/2011 at 15:50 (4,402 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        
qualin

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I see your point an value your input... however i do wish you could have waited for the manual which i am currently writing.

you said you do techinical support for computer for a living which is more complex.... i know allot about computers ive completed two years of studying to be a computer technician, i am now currently studying computer science after which i will then attend an institute of technology to get my masters degree in it. I know who complex computers can be.

next, about the fuctioning of a washing machine, you made so very valid points for me to consider which i will and implement into my next designs, i will however only post them on here if they are requested on this thread, i know all to well how mst people tend to wash everything on the one cycle...

well how about a machine that will predetermine the correct wash with the correct settings based on the amount of clothing in the drum and the type of clothing it detects and if the user accepts he or she need only press the accept button on a relitavly large and easy to understand/read touchscreen.

Jacob- thank you for your comments

Dascot- in reply to your questions-

- What's the panel in the bottom of all three machines that looks like a filter on the washer?
Answer: the panel at the base of the three machines is indeed where the filter is located in the center, however upon lifting the plinth from the bottom up will expose, screws that will allow the entire front of the machine to be removed, as an aid to an engineer should the machine ever need a repair.

- What is the difference between a pots cycle and a pans cycle on the dishwasher?
Answer- this i had to think about and then i thought, ok so pots are bulky and food can really stick to them so the Pots program washes them in 60* water and utilises the spray arms to their best to wash the pots acuratly
the pans program- pans are usualy slimy and grubby from oil and the food that may be cooked on it, so again by using hot water and utilising the spray arms and side sprays embedded in the walls of the dishwasher it will wash all dirt etc from the pans.

- What is the difference with the timed cycles on the dryer, and why does only one have cooldown? It seems there's hot and cool selectors as buttons...

Answer: i used timed instead of actual programs because it makes them more generic, however half of the dial is allocated to cottons, the other synthectics. i found with a dryer its easier just to select how long you want it to run for and not the other way around. i put seperate heat selecter buttons on the machine because allot of the time on dryers that just have the one button to select between hi and low once the text on the fascia people no longer knew wheter the machine was on high heat or low, so by having to buttons with text that wont fade they will always know the heat setting of the machine.

stay tuned for instruction manuals for the machines... and possibly one more to add to the collection.




Post# 555119 , Reply# 17   11/8/2011 at 15:52 (4,402 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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P.s

it may take a few days for the manuals.

P.p.s
Jacob nice machine..keep working at it.


Post# 555287 , Reply# 18   11/9/2011 at 01:43 (4,402 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
My thoughts...

I like the idea of a touch screen instead of cryptic buttons. For example, like the button marked "S" on the washer. What does that mean? We all know that probably means "Spin" but for someone who doesn't know laundry, they may not know that it selects spin speed. If they did know, how do they know what is appropriate?

Before developing the solution, determine what the problem is first.

For example, how many different kinds of fabric are there? How many different ways does this fabric need to be treated and washed? How can this device accommodate those needs?

An excellent example of what Miele did for example was put in a "Beach Towels" setting on their FabriCare button. Basically, it adds a few extra rinses to get out sand and uses a high water level so that the towels can soak up the water.

Although, that's one side of it. My own Huebsch washer has Regular, Perm. Press, Delicates/Bulky, Rinse and Spin and Spin Only cycles and that's it. There's also an extra rinse switch. The company that developed it used the KISS (Keep It Simple) principle and figured those cycles would wash most clothing out there, whether they were cottons, synthetics, woolens or dedicates.

That's another thing to keep in mind when considering a design.

To answer your question:
> predetermine the correct wash with the correct settings based on the amount of
> clothing in the drum

That's a step in the right direction. There are already washers that can do that, they even have a "Load Level" indicator on the display to show how heavily loaded they are. (I think that's an awesome technology!)

> and the type of clothing it detects

Some university students are working on that. Some machines can detect soil level by circulating water through an electric eye. Detecting the types of clothing is a bit harder, but you could detect something which is unusual. For example, if the user is washing towels, they would soak up a lot of water. The machine could learn from this and determine that they must be washing towels, so caution must be made when spinning and the machine should make a lot of effort to auto-balance before ramping up the spin speed.

An excellent engineering problem would be if someone was washing bathmats. This can destroy a machine. Simply put, your concept machine could detect a user is doing this by detecting a severe out of balance condition on a low speed spin and compensate as needed by using auto balancing and pulse spins.

> accept button on a relitavly large and easy to understand/read touchscreen.

Ding! Theoretically, modern machines don't even need dials anymore, just a touch screen... but manufacturers are leaving the dial in because of aesthetics and ease of use. After all, everyone understands how a dial works!


Post# 555403 , Reply# 19   11/9/2011 at 13:52 (4,401 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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The machines i posted above have a load level indicator just above the door

Post# 555776 , Reply# 20   11/10/2011 at 20:01 (4,400 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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It is well possible to determine load size during tumble, the same way(s) as balance is electronically detected in distribution and spin. There are short-range (1/3 revolution) variations in tach error and motor current (one drives the other). With no/light/balanced load the variations are negligible.

Preferable to use an intelligent system that looks beyond just 1/3 revolution and identifes patterns. Helps avoid annoying false positives. Not all designs are that elegant.

There are also gyro accelerometers that cost like a dollar apiece. I don't know which designs use which solutions.


Post# 556232 , Reply# 21   11/13/2011 at 04:15 (4,398 days old) by glenfieldmathk1 (Glenfield-Leicester-UK)        
Very Nice Ariston4life & Hotpointfan

Good designs there! I like them.
So are you guys using Google sketchup?
I have used Sketchup and I am impressed, though not sure how to get text yet, so I printed out mine and then hand drawn on some of the features, you can see in the picture. Any help about getting text I would be great full!

Thanks:)

(photo - Hotpoint Aquarius-Ultima 'By Matosch') More coming to the Matosch site soon!


Post# 556248 , Reply# 22   11/13/2011 at 07:20 (4,398 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Yep!

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Type in Hotpoint into Google Sketchup warehouse and the models made by ' Jacob ' are mine :)

Post# 556367 , Reply# 23   11/13/2011 at 17:11 (4,397 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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i dont use sketchup, i use microsoft paint

Post# 556535 , Reply# 24   11/14/2011 at 15:28 (4,396 days old) by Jsneaker ()        
Simplicity

I just wish all of these computer-controlled top and front-loading HE automatics would never have been built! Why did older machines last quite a few years, a "lifetime" if cared-for properly? Everything "Laundry" today is made so complicated and it's built-in confusion and obsolescence that is apparent. Then follows dissatisfaction... I hope I live long enough to see how long my Samsung lasts. Also, bring back phosphates and NTA! Screw "Greenies"!

Post# 556545 , Reply# 25   11/14/2011 at 15:55 (4,396 days old) by supermaticjames (Donegal, Ireland)        

Bring back 80's electronics and timer controls!

Post# 556551 , Reply# 26   11/14/2011 at 16:31 (4,396 days old) by mrx ()        

Ariston4Life,

You should give Google Sketch-up a try. It's quite a nice, free app for producing 3D models.
If you're interested in getting into design, or maybe even doing a design course in university, it's actually well worth playing around with some of these packages. (Just type Google Sketch up into Google and you'll get a link !)

If you want to get really fancy and move into 3D animation : I'd suggest trying Blender. It's open source 3D animation software www.blender.org...


Post# 557710 , Reply# 27   11/18/2011 at 23:45 (4,392 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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I can see a new game for smart phones....



Angry Washing Machines...



;-)



Post# 557975 , Reply# 28   11/20/2011 at 04:51 (4,391 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
This is a request for Chris (aquarius8000)

hotpointfan's profile picture
It is a spin dryer/tumble dryer with a washing attachment.

Jacob


Post# 557992 , Reply# 29   11/20/2011 at 08:12 (4,391 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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intresting concept jacob i like it....

Post# 557998 , Reply# 30   11/20/2011 at 08:33 (4,391 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
ariston4life...

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Yeah, thanks! I think washerdryers are flawed, you can't wash one load, and dry another at the same time!

Jacob


Post# 563410 , Reply# 31   12/15/2011 at 13:29 (4,365 days old) by henrypeter21 ()        
My Design:

I am currently reading books ready to do an electronics project to a washing machine, the project is in its early stage and when i have finishd, i hope to be able to clone a few of the PCB's i would have made so i can manufacture a few machines to allow local people to rent and trial them and give back reviews and feedback on how the unit could be improved. I am currently lookig out for a host machine, i wuld like to find a hotpoint wm63!

Post# 563412 , Reply# 32   12/15/2011 at 13:32 (4,365 days old) by henrypeter21 ()        
The Fascer

I hope something like this would be the end product.

Post# 563481 , Reply# 33   12/16/2011 at 00:03 (4,365 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
Another IMHO

Henry,

With the advent of high resolution LCD displays, why would you use a simple two digit LED display?

Why not actually have the display say what the cycle is?

ie. Instead of "P0" it would say, "Select Cycle."

All of the rest of the programs could be selected with a knob and the full text of the cycle would be displayed on the display, rather than a cryptic "P4" code.

What makes sense to you anyway? Imagine if the user lost the instruction manual.


Post# 563499 , Reply# 34   12/16/2011 at 04:05 (4,365 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

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over here a user looks at the manual for all of 2 minutes and then uses the machine...
if the user knows how to use the machine they will not need the reference the manual for every single thing...


Post# 563651 , Reply# 35   12/17/2011 at 00:58 (4,364 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
Manuals

Hey Ariston.

With Henry's diagram above, take a 3 second look at it and then switch to another browser page. Now tell me what "P4" means. Now, come back to it an hour later without looking and tell me what "P6" means.

I guarantee you won't remember, unless you have a great memory.

Any machine, regardless of whatever it is, should be designed so that you wouldn't ever have to look at the manual or refer to an instruction card or "Cheat Sheet".

It's fortunate that a lot of Euro-style machines actually have a guide which is located on the soap dispenser, but this is a major shortcoming IMHO.

With modern technology, I don't see any reason why a machine can't be designed in such a way where anyone can take a look at it and just use it without having to memorize or learn anything.

Here's the control panel to my old GE front loader.

So, imagine for example, you needed to wash something with these settings:

Extra Large Load
Delicate Wash Speed, Normal Spin Speed
Warm Wash Temperature, Cold Rinse Temperature
Extended Spin
Extra Length Permanent Press Cycle

Imagine that you flew from Dublin to my City, Calgary.. You are standing in front of this machine for the very first time in your life and I gave you the instructions above.

I'll bet you a dinner that you not only will know exactly what to do to get this machine started, but there wasn't any need to read the manual. :)


Post# 563663 , Reply# 36   12/17/2011 at 03:39 (4,364 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
Are you sure that's a FL?

haxisfan's profile picture
Hi Qualin... that machine in the picture would be a total novelty to me but I guess I would figure out how to use it. It's a TL though, not a FL as you suggested... isn't it?

I can see there are quite a few dials though and I don't quite appreciate the fact that the 'options' on this machine are managed in such a way too... so, my understanding is that if you select one option you're unable to select another one at the same time. Say, for example, you wanted the second rinse as well as an extended spin.

I must admit that my machine would take some figuring out before one can use it properly. As a matter of fact, I had a few lodgers in the past running into the wrong settings while doing their laundry and, on different occasions, I had to tell them which were the most appropriate cycles to use for whatever load of clothes they had.

You can see the programme selector below, which is the most misleading, there are two more dials, one for temperature and one for spin speed, but these are quite self explanatory. The options are represented by 5 buttons and they can all be combined giving you alternative wash cycles, however... without reading the manual... or rather... without having used the machine for years, you wouldn't know what some of these combinations actually do as they're not even mentioned in the booklet.

The most misleading programme is the one which says 'Colour Mix', my lodgers thought this cycle would have been ideal for their everyday bright/dark colour garments... but there's the rub! This programme on most European machines is known as 'AA40' (even on the updated version of this very machine) which consists of an extended wash phase with higher water level and it's supposed to deliver the same results of a wash cycle carried out at a temperature of 60 degrees, whilst maintaining energy consumption low.

As it's a 'Warm' rather than 'Hot' wash cycle, the user can wash different colours together without having them run into each other... hence the wording 'Colour Mix'. Still, such a long programme is mere frustration for some1 who wants to wash their everyday darks... and it's not meant for dark colour-run items as one could easily be led into believing :-P

B.t.w. congratulations to you all for your gorgeous designs!


Post# 563672 , Reply# 37   12/17/2011 at 07:30 (4,364 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Haxisfan

hotpointfan's profile picture
I agree, it looks so confusing!

And warm/cold and the other temperatures, should they not give a temperature like 60?

What is the SPEED dial for, the spin speed?

The FL's we have are much easier.

Heres my latest design, please request if you wish :)

Jacob


Post# 563690 , Reply# 38   12/17/2011 at 09:54 (4,364 days old) by jetsystem1200 ()        
Haxisfan,

Finally, you have helped me find out what the AA40 option does on my Zanussi, as the manual does not explain it very well. My Zanussi FJD1266W, I think, is very hard to use for people who are new to use a washing machine, as it uses buttons instead of knobs. What I find frustrating is that you cannot have the prewash on the quick cycle, which I mainly use as most of my clothes are only slightly soiled and I can wash 6kg on the quick cycle. On the positive side, I like the way there are no unnecessary cycles, such as shoes or a special cycle for jeans, because the PCB does all of the work. The time display on the Zanussi is so inaccurate; it was on 1 minute for 20 minutes last night (although, because the drain pump and bearings are gone, it was doing a balancing act.)

Post# 563840 , Reply# 39   12/18/2011 at 02:27 (4,363 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To Haxifan

I thought I'd show off the control panel to my top loader because they're not as common in Europe and thereby completely more alien.. so it would result in having one think a bit more carefully about one using it.

The Dial for the Options is something I did find annoying, but it does show off a very common design flaw. I can't run an extended spin and extra rinse at the same time, which is annoying. It's the one thing about this machine that really bothered me. There's no reason why they couldn't have put in a few buttons or something with a cancel button, like something you'd find on a dishwasher.

That program dial makes a lot of sense to me, but like you said, there are some "Gotchas" involved.

Of course, there are a few things which are downright intuitive and others which wouldn't be unless one read the manual. It's a sign of good design when I can take one look at that and know exactly what to use. :)


Post# 563841 , Reply# 40   12/18/2011 at 02:35 (4,363 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To Hotpoint Fan

The Speed dial is to control the agitator speed and the spin speed.

This is a 4 speed machine which is kind of rare.

What does "AA40" even stand for? I know the 40 part is temperature..

To Jetsystem1200,

That control panel is intuitive. (Except for the AA40 part, but if I just ignored it, I could still get my washing done.) Going from left to right .. Turn the machine on... Select the Fabric, then the temperature, then the spin speed, The wash choice (What the heck does the "Outdoor Sports" selection do?) then options, select delay start if applicable then hit start.. Couldn't be any easier.


Post# 563843 , Reply# 41   12/18/2011 at 02:56 (4,363 days old) by jetsystem1200 ()        

Qualin,

The Night Wash option is a rinse hold, the Outdoor Sports option is a 30 minute soak, and the Super Rinse button adds more water in the rinses plus an extra rinse.


Post# 563844 , Reply# 42   12/18/2011 at 03:37 (4,363 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
AA40

haxisfan's profile picture
Hi Qualin, the 'AA40' summarizes the energy label this type of wash falls into, therefore 'A' for the energy consumption and 'A' for wash result. There should be a third letter to indicate the efficiency of the spin cycle, as conventionally seen on the Euro Energy Consumption Labelling Scheme for washing machines but this information is omitted as it could not possibly be referred with by another 'A'... if anything, it would be 'B' or even 'C'. The reason being that this programme must cater for mixed fabrics and it's not allowed to carry out a spin cycle at full speed and length.

I The parameters for this cycle (length, water level, spin speed, etc) may vary from washer to washer, but its main purpose is to reduce the electricity consumption (hence lowish temperature) and elongate the wash time to extensively.

Hi Jetsystem1200, it's perfectly normal for a washer not being able to work out the time remaining accurately when an out of balance situation occurs. That control panel of yours is rather intuitive as Qualin suggested and looks quite futuristic too ;-)

Still, as you said, I wouldn't be too keen on the 'Prewash' compromise scenario you described... it would have been much better if it could be selected on its own and added to whatever other option you might have selected. I guess the idea is that you shouldn't be needing a prewash on a quick cycle, although I share your thoughts on this one, e.g. I often prewash my darks on short cycles.

Laterz :-)


Post# 563850 , Reply# 43   12/18/2011 at 05:28 (4,363 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        

hotpointfan's profile picture
Very good!

Heres my design, didn't post it before.


Post# 563852 , Reply# 44   12/18/2011 at 05:47 (4,363 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
More

hotpointfan's profile picture
Brochure shot

Post# 563854 , Reply# 45   12/18/2011 at 05:57 (4,363 days old) by ctyankee ()        

Anyone wishing to design and then build a new washing machine should virtually copy/clone the Miele W1065 with it's mechanical controls.

Post# 563855 , Reply# 46   12/18/2011 at 06:09 (4,363 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
Mark

hotpointfan's profile picture
There's virtually no point! On mechanical style washing machines the timers were one of the killers! Also little kids would fiddle and accidentally advance the cycle, and also people like to know how long is left of a wash cycle and a little screen is the best! OK not all modern UK machines have screens, but just about any over the 280 mark do. Not saying Miele's are bad in any way...:P

Jacob


Post# 563912 , Reply# 47   12/18/2011 at 14:32 (4,362 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        
I disagree Jacob...

... I think that a decent mechanical timer machine would last better than the electronic ones, and actually, I'd quite like a newer version of older Miele/AEG/etc machines where you select starting point, temperature, options on a couple of dials and then buttons. I would rather have that then an all singing all dancing display, actually :)

Post# 563916 , Reply# 48   12/18/2011 at 15:15 (4,362 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        
On mechanical style washing machines the timers were one of

aquacycle's profile picture
That may be the case, but in the same light, more PCB failures kill more washers these days than anything else. Every Hotpoint or Indesit I know that's died in the last year was down to PCB failure. More mechanical timer machines survived 10 years plus than 90% of digitally controlled machines.

Post# 564014 , Reply# 49   12/19/2011 at 00:40 (4,362 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
Electronic vs Mechanical Timers

That's an argument in itself.. Mechanical vs Electronic.

There is considerably more control with a mechanical timer as opposed to an electronic timer. Then again, that defeats the purpose of an automatic washer. :)

I've seen electronic timers last 20 years and longer. It all depends on the quality of the electronic components inside of the machine and whether or not the electronics were designed with the humidity, vibration, etc in mind.

Strangely enough, I've only seen mechanical controls on very very cheap machines.

Thanks for the clarification on those few things Haxisfan.



Post# 564029 , Reply# 50   12/19/2011 at 03:56 (4,362 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Designs

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Great designs there boys , keep thinking out all of the options, I love the Concept Washer Spinner, Washer & Tumble Dryer, H-Ax meets V-Drum......

Mechanical V Electronic, like anything if its a goog timer its great it its a good PCB its great...nowthen, mechanical timers can be good for user selection, Time Temp Aditation & Spin Speed....BUT what about the variables

Over Sudsing
Out Of Balance Spin
Not Enough Water on Absorbent Loads
Clothes not clean on selected wash time
Extra Rinse Required
Higher temp than fabric can take
Higher Spin than fabric can take, ie woollens......etc etc
Washer goes faulty, ie motor burn out


This is where the beauty of the variables built into the computer pcb board come into play, and the washer is "Totally Automatic^, again a board is only as good as whats programmed, but you dotta admit todays washers offer do more than selecting 1 - 7 or C - J....

Bring back the ITCL codes, 9 fixed programmes that you just select and go....


I vote 1, 2, 5 & 7......Whats your vote


Post# 564032 , Reply# 51   12/19/2011 at 04:49 (4,362 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom)        
PCB

hotpointfan's profile picture
They do never work when I try to use them. And I must say, I love seeing the timer advance by itself. No fiddly rubbish PCB's!

Jacob


Post# 564041 , Reply# 52   12/19/2011 at 06:11 (4,362 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Mechanical timers can last--decades-Circuit boards do not last as long.And in my area----Lightening KILLS them.

Post# 564071 , Reply# 53   12/19/2011 at 11:27 (4,362 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)        
Am I the only north american here who loves euro controls on

The 'strange' symbols on euro machines really are world wide fabric care symbols. Indeed, one US organization discusses them right here: www.cleaninginstitute.org/clean_l... (also in attached link).

What in the US we aren't used to is real control over using appliances. One of the things I am looking forward to, in returning to using an Asko, is full control over temperature, spin speed, programme, etc. on the washer. (Dryers are fundamentally more boring).

I, personally, like the Euro layouts so keep it on :) I wouldn't mind the ability for even more control, like an ipad app or a computer app where you could talk to the machine via wifi and set it up :).

Now here's another thought: too bad the PCB couldn't be mounted on the wall and cabled over to the machine! Then all the electronics would be away from the humidity and on a non-moving wall!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Hunter's LINK


Post# 564205 , Reply# 54   12/20/2011 at 01:41 (4,361 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To Hunter

I like that idea.. I think one way they did that was to make washers with a rear control panel, so all the bits which are sensitive to humidity, etc were away from the rest of the machine.

I have some clothing garments which have Chinese clothing symbols on them which are very different than the normal standard.

To Tolivac:

Most power bars these days have surge protectors on them. GE sells power bars which stop working if they get hit with a lightening strike and can't surge protect anymore. It sounds stupid to need a surge protector for a washing machine, but it's one way of ensuring the electronics don't go belly up.

Hopefully, the manufacturer at least put in some kind of protection to prevent the machine from being killed by power surges, like using a linear power supply instead of a switching one to drive the electronics.



Post# 564207 , Reply# 55   12/20/2011 at 01:54 (4,361 days old) by qualin (Canada)        
To Chestermike

What does 'ITCL' stand for?

That program guide looks like a useability nightmare. I'd have to read that guide every time I wanted to use the machine. I can see how this would have been a common thing back in the early 80's since single digit LED displays were really the only thing out there.

Good point on the variables...

> Over Sudsing

I'm really not sure how machines detect this condition. All I know is that when machines do detect it, they usually run one or two high level rinses. Perhaps this is detected by an electric eye near the pump hose and on a spin condition? North American machines just display "SUDS" and run extra normal rinse cycles.

> Out Of Balance Spin

Easily detectable by an accelerometer or microswitch. When drum > 200 RPM and switch is triggered, the machine goes into a rebalancing mode, spinning the drum at about 80 RPM (?) to rebalance. If a rebalance doesn't work after the second try, spin at a reduced speed.

> Not Enough Water on Absorbent Loads

That's easy. When the pressure switch goes below a certain threshold, start a fill again until the pressure switch registers full.

> Clothes not clean on selected wash time

How would you detect this? By the clarity of the rinse water?

> Extra Rinse Required

This kind of goes back to the oversudsing condition doesn't it? Although, there could be a switch to force this condition.

> Higher temp than fabric can take

How would you determine this? I guess this is a usability error. For example, selecting a "95 C Cottons" cycle while washing Synthetics, there really wouldn't be any way to know.. Unless maybe the washer could detect excess lint?

> Higher Spin than fabric can take, ie woollens......etc etc

That kind of goes back to usability again.

> Washer goes faulty, ie motor burn out

I would think most modern washers would have an over temperature protection on the motor to keep it from catching on fire. :-)


Post# 564212 , Reply# 56   12/20/2011 at 03:26 (4,361 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Care Symbols

chestermikeuk's profile picture
All machine washable clothing usually have a tag attached to them which states the correct procedure for laundering etc....many of these are identified and certificated by governing bodies conforming to ITLC (Qualin, my fingers typed the above too quickly..lol) International Textile Laundry Codes, we also use a local HLCC (Home Laundry Consultative Council) coding as well....

So all we should really be doing is checking all those tags, putting them together and selecting the corresponding programme on the washing machine control panel.

Now those codes on the washer panel fascia you refer to as "Usability Nightmare", what part of USABILITY dont you understand about that??

You simply take all you white clothing and select the programme that says WHITE COTTONS...on the Servis machines which invented the first worlds computerised machines back in 1976, thats all you needed to do, a two digit display showed you what programme you had selected, the machine was programmed for the correct Time Temp Agitation & Spin..

Thats why I stated about codes 1, 2, 5, & 7 as the codes I always used
1 - Whites Cottons 95d
2, Coloured Cottons 60d
5 - Coloured Cottons 40d
7 - Woollens 40d

Is that not simpler for most people who do laundry rather than guessing what you would have to do with your panel!!!

Todays machines have gotten more complicated, most people when asked would want to go back to the above (I take us here out of that equation before breakfast is thrown as fingers start typing furiously)...





CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 564217 , Reply# 57   12/20/2011 at 05:09 (4,361 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Hi Chester. This is IMHO, of course.

In 1976, I can see how technology limited the use of displays to a double digit LED, so this kind of thing was absolutely necessary.

However, with modern technology and the modernization of LED and LCD displays, I don't see any reason for "guides" to be on the machine anymore when a display can make it very descriptive.

Heck, An excellent example would be, rather than displaying "P1" for program one, you could actually show the graphic for the 95 C wash and then have the wording below it say "Whites Cottons Linens"

No guide required, just turn the knob and push the start button.

Perhaps my previous comment was a little too strong. I believe that technology should make our lives easier, not more complex.


Post# 564219 , Reply# 58   12/20/2011 at 05:27 (4,361 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Please note-not all outlet bars have surge protection-and if it does---may not be sensitive enough to save a board.And you generally don't plug your washer,dishwasher,into the outlet bar.Manufactuers of equipment need to provide better surge protection in their devices.Linear supplies vs switching ones-its to the point switching wins---cost,and energy efficiency.Surge protection even needs to be provided at the COMPONENT level on the circuit boards-this can be done-but it is expensive.And switching supplies can have an isolated transformer-it is operating at an ultrasonic frequency rather than 50-60Hz power-makes the transformer MUCH smaller-less copper and iron.Isolation,filtering sure helps for the boards-and the surge protection devices.But not all appliance builders provide this---cost-and they want to you have to have boards replaced.

Post# 564286 , Reply# 59   12/20/2011 at 12:29 (4,361 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

ariston4life's profile picture
all i know is that any machin ive come into contact with whether i know of it or not...i can gauarantee that i will be able to use it within seconds.


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