Thread Number: 418
Uh Oh....Cone Hop?
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Post# 48275   10/31/2004 at 19:25 (7,103 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        

cadman's profile picture
Hmmm, I got to looking at my WCD-64 and it appears to only have a single nut style flange holding down the agitator. But what worries me a bit is the clunking. I've made an mp3 during the wash cycle, the first half is with the door closed, second with it open. I don't think it sounds this pronounced in real life but it is loud, nonetheless. Experts?? Jetcone?? What do you think?

The mp3 is around 200k, but be patient, my server is a little slow-


CLICK HERE TO GO TO cadman's LINK





Post# 48276 , Reply# 1   10/31/2004 at 19:26 (7,103 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        

cadman's profile picture
BTW, This was with a small load of towels-

Post# 48277 , Reply# 2   10/31/2004 at 19:54 (7,103 days old) by westytoploader ()        

The Multimatic tranny sounds nice and quiet compared to the Rollermatic or even the Unimatic, but that hammering sound is pretty bad.

What does everybody else think? Cone Hop?


Post# 48278 , Reply# 3   10/31/2004 at 20:19 (7,103 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

I can tell by the speed of the pulsation it is a "Multi-matic" but it sure is loud!! Not quiet like my Mother's! And--- it should only be that loud in the overflow when shooting jets of water! -Steve

Post# 48305 , Reply# 4   10/31/2004 at 23:33 (7,103 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Yup - sounds like cone-hop...

Post# 48333 , Reply# 5   11/1/2004 at 14:34 (7,102 days old) by jaxsunst ()        
question?

I'm new to this, what is cone hop?

Post# 48339 , Reply# 6   11/1/2004 at 16:05 (7,102 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Cone Hop Confirmed!

jetcone's profile picture
Cad, You have cone hop but a light case. Full blown cone hop is deafening even with the lid closed!
This is actually why I was able to buy alot of these machines 20 years ago and fix up and resell them!! Owners couldn't stand the noise and just put them in the WantAds!!
You can take apart your jet cones and---,I would, before they are all so badly chipped you can't save them. When you get them apart take the upper blue cone to a "Hawdhwayer" as we say Hardware Store here and try to find neoprene "O" rings big enough to slip up around the "descending collar" up under the jetcone. A flat O ring would be the best but you aren't going to find one. IF that pans out I would consider silicone or JB Welding the two cones together if you can't find a replacement set. The two cones don't have to be seperate items for the washer to work properly.

BUT FIRST!! WARNING!!!
GO to Auto Zone and purchase a can of "PB rust Breaker" ONLY THIS AND ONLY THIS I cant' stress that enough! Spray the nut liberally for several days so that some of the penetrant gets to soak up under the nut flange and losen the nut before trying to turn it.

When at Auto ZOne also search out a product called Anti-Seize by PENETREX I think. Use this on the threads of the agitate shaft before reinstalling the nut so that down the road you will always be able to take the nut off easily.
Your Multi Matic will take more pounding than my Roller matic so that is working in your favor.

AND AND !!!! Only use a SIx Sided socket on that nut! You will probably have to go to Sears to get one. That is also crucial!

Keep us posted on your progress!

jet




Post# 48341 , Reply# 7   11/1/2004 at 16:20 (7,102 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

What a shame it is so difficult to find the parts to put together an original 1964 3-Ring Pulsator. I would think Cadman would enjoy the choice of which form of Pulsator is installed. Thank you Jetcone for all the information!!! -Steve

Post# 48372 , Reply# 8   11/1/2004 at 23:02 (7,102 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Wow, that was easy!

cadman's profile picture
P'Blaster is something I live by! Nothing else can even compare. So I gave it a few squirts and hit up Sears for a 6pt 3/4" socket and a comically long extension. A few twists and the nut eased right off. Sure enough, I can see wear (only the slightest, thankfully) along the top edge of the lower cone. I'll look for a washer tomorrow, though wouldn't a plate on the very bottom of the top cone (holding the lower cone captive via its 4 vanes) work as well?

I know a lot of you guys swear by JB Weld, but has anyone tried bumper epoxy? It dries extremely hard and durable and withstands the elements.


Post# 48378 , Reply# 9   11/2/2004 at 09:39 (7,102 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
You are very lucky. Of the Rollermatics that I've had, I was only ever able to successfully remove the agitator nut once. I've had about a 50/50 chance with 1-18's. Congrats!

Post# 48408 , Reply# 10   11/2/2004 at 18:47 (7,101 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Just wondering, how is the condition of the bellows?

Post# 48415 , Reply# 11   11/2/2004 at 19:55 (7,101 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Excellent Job Cadman

jetcone's profile picture
Way to go Cadman! Don't you just LOVE PB rust buster! What is bumper epoxy fill me in!

I'm not sure where you would like to place the plate between the cones again?? Do you mean between the cones with a center hole for the agitate shaft?

Not to get too technical: the problem has always been that the heavy pulsator creates a huge force when coming down to the tub against the water. Since it is rubber it flexes and changes shape ever so slightly. That deformation is large enough over the stroke cycle to allow that center cone to seperate from the upper cone and slam back against it on the next cycle. That is why the upper cone is slowly chipped away. I have seen cones that have a 1 inch chip line above the original molding so that the center cone Hops 1 inch on each cycle! THATS REALLY LOUD!!

The reason the 2 nut system works is because the lower pulsator nut takes up all the shock from the pulsator and the upper nut just holds the two cones down on the shaft. Be aware that the pulsator is a huge mass oscillating and the cones aren't designed to hold that impact back, they can't.

Sometimes as a quick fix in the field Servicemen used to just turn the middle cone 1/4 turn so that the four vanes were in the larger openings of the upper cone, that would take up the slack between cones.
I might have a good used later nut but I know I don't have anymore lower pulsator nuts, My stash is at my summer home so I can't check it this weekend but I can check for you next time I go down. If I had a nut for you, you could use a stainless steel jam nut under it but as I remember that agitate shaft has an odd thread count for its size. You'll have to find out what that is.

You have the original nut for sure and you can seal that nut better than the later ones! When you reinstall it pack about 1/2 inch of plumbers putty around the base of the screw stud. As you tighten the nut down it will squish up inside and act like a complete seal for the threads of the agitator stud. Together with the anti-seize you will never have to worry about removing that nut again.

I would be very curious to see what kind of fix you are thinking of keep us posted!
cheers
jet



Post# 48425 , Reply# 12   11/2/2004 at 20:39 (7,101 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Ready to Wash!

cadman's profile picture
Hey Jet,

One inch travel! Wowza! Thank goodness these cones didn't ever get that far, just a well worn surface on both.

After surveying the situation, and finding out the daily workhorse, a Maytag 208, was leaking, I stopped by the hardware store. The Maytag needed new hose clamps at the pump and tub, the old ones literally rusted to pieces! I searched for o-rings in all the sections, and found Red Rubber Sheet Packing that makes instant rubber gaskets and o-rings, cut to size.
The pack includes two thicknesses, I used the 1/8" thickness to make the ring shown in the pic, then bonded it to the cone with 5 min. epoxy. Once that cured I reassembled the two and reinstalled- the two fit nice and tight without any opportunity for hop. It appears this setup does have a lower nut to hold down that pulsator, thank goodness. Are you saying the early ones held down the pulsator and both cones with one nut!?

And oh yeah, lots of anti-seize on those threads after a cleaning and thorough drying. Let's hope it holds up- It's certainly much quieter.

PS, the Maytag is well and happy. There will NOT be talk of a new washer in this house : )


Post# 48429 , Reply# 13   11/2/2004 at 21:57 (7,101 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Very Entertaining!

jetcone's profile picture
Good on you!

Nice patch on the cones, yes I was saying the first Jetcones had only ONE nut! Thats it!

Now you will have sparkling clean wash without the hassle of a "new" machine!

Enjoy Cadman!

Jet




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