Thread Number: 4551
Commercial Front Loader In Home? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 102770   1/9/2006 at 22:33 (6,681 days old) by partsandpieces ()        

After suffering through replacing just about every curcuit board at least once in our Maytag MAH 3000AWW Neptune, its headed for the scrapper. I'm tired of all these $1000.00 junk washers that are sold to the home markets that seem to break all of the time. We have a kitchen with Wolf restaurant stoves (the real thing, not the yuppie pretty kitchen junk), so why not go for the real deal in the laundry room? We really only need simple cycles for washing working people clothes. Cottons- jeans,Carharts,undergarments etc. It does need to be installed on a conventional wood framed floor, but other than that, I certainly can install a drain at near floor height for a gravity drain or what ever else is needed. Am I crazy with overkill? Any recomendations on brands, models and reliability (-a must!)




Post# 102776 , Reply# 1   1/9/2006 at 22:51 (6,681 days old) by frontloadfan (Wellfleet, Ma.)        
Check E-Bay for Used Commerical Machines

 From time to time, just for the hell of it, I enter commercial washing machine on E-bay. You would be amazed how often commercial washing machines are being sold. Often they are Speed Queen Double Loaders. Usually some laundremat has purchased new commercial loaders and wants to get rid of the old machines. Prices seem to be reasonable (under $1,000) but they usually specify that you have to haul it away yourself.

Going back to the special needs, it seems like most of the commercial front loaders are 220, so you would have to have the wiring done.

From what I hear, to get a large commercial front loader brand new would run you several thousands.

I don't blame you for exploring this option. The commercial front loaders sure look attractive.

Keep in mind, however, that the Maytag Neptunes seemed to be really trouble prone. I know it is too early to know for fact, but the newer generation front loaders seem to be doing well, at least so far!

Please post back when you find out something. It should be interesting!

Post# 102781 , Reply# 2   1/9/2006 at 23:17 (6,681 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Several weeks back, someone was auctioning off a "Solaris" by ADC (American Dryer Corporation) washer and dryer set. As the washer was "soft mounted" (read: has built in suspension and pump system), all one needed was the space, solid flooring and electrical requirements.

Commercial front load washers fall into two sections: soft mount and hard mount.

Hard Mount: These are the washers one sees at laundromats and most other commercial laundries. They do not have built in suspension systems nor pumps. Rather are bolted into several feet of concrete and literally "dump" water into a sewer line by opening a gravity drain. Wascomat and Speed Queen are common models.

Soft Mount: aka "Home Style" washing machines do have built in pumps and suspension systems (like home use front loaders), but are built to a higher standard. These units are usually robust, heavy and built to anywhere from light to heavy commercial standards. Light being along the lines of a beauty salon, and heavy a commercial laundry whom for various reasons cannot install a hard mount washer.

Both soft and hard mount commercial washing machines and dryers are NOT cheap. A 18lb washer can easily run several thousand dollars. Used commmercial washers and dryers sometimes appear on eBay (sometimes mint in box or lightly used), but unless you live near the seller, shipping could be a problem due to size and weight of these items.

If you want to step up from Maytag Neptunes, and are looking for a good quality washer and dryer, consider Miele. Their largest washer (which is also the entry commercial unit) holds only about 6kg though. Another option would be the Speed Queen "Home Style" line of washers and dryers. The front loading washing machine holds 18lbs of laundry, but has no heater and cycle choices are rather skimpy. Basically a commercial grade laundromat washer for home use. Nothing fancy but gets the job done.

When looking at commercial units, besides the pump/suspension system, pay attention to the electrical requirments. Many units run on 220v/three phase power, even those without heaters.

Reading over your post again, I'd strongly suggest you take a look at the Speed Queen "Home Style" units. They are simple but well built units that probably would work well with your wood framed floor.

Launderess

CLICK HERE TO GO TO launderess's LINK
Post# 102791 , Reply# 3   1/10/2006 at 01:09 (6,681 days old) by mistervain ()        

I also considered an older commercial FL simply because I was satisfied with the amount of water used (i.e. a sufficient amount) which was much superior to these water-use regulated commie-washers sold for home use. But a lot of prep work would be needed, as they must be about 8" off the ground with the gravity drain and the proper power source.

Post# 102834 , Reply# 4   1/10/2006 at 10:52 (6,680 days old) by designgeek ()        

Question about gravity drains: Do you need a larger drain pipe from the laundry room to handle the volume of water that's releasaed?

I suspect that the commercial machines require something like a 4" line, similar to what you have from your toilet, and that the smaller drains found in most laundry rooms aren't quite sufficient. Risk of flooding or damage to equipment, etc. Anyone know?

Post# 102843 , Reply# 5   1/10/2006 at 11:23 (6,680 days old) by bobbyderegis (Boston)        

Hello!
All commercial/laundromat equipment is different. I got a Dexter FL, made in 1991 from a laundromat which was closing. Although this a poor machine- (slow spin, very heavy, noisy, and a trouble-prone transmission with three solenoids) it has some advantages. Gravity drain into a 2 inch pipe, and a 120V motor. We can do three times the amount of laundry as in the Maytag TL, for the same amount of electricity and water, and we get a second rinse. I recommend calling your local commercial ditributor and check out rebuilt machines. Or watch e-bay for commercial machines. The coin op slot can usually be replaced with a manual timer, provided the part is still available. It will also need to be bolted to the floor.

Post# 102844 , Reply# 6   1/10/2006 at 11:24 (6,680 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        

If I may advise. Speed Queen seems to me dependable and easy to use. If you choose speed queen, look to the european style machines. They are to my point of view better in cleaning the REAL stuff lik working clothes.

Post# 102846 , Reply# 7   1/10/2006 at 11:30 (6,680 days old) by trok_99 ()        
If u've got $5,000 and are serious

 FYI

Contact your local Milnor dealer. I'm a dealer myself.

Milnor's have a reputation for lasting 20-30 years under heavy commercial use. So under a home use situation...consider many generations of your family to be married to the machine.

And this machine will outwash any commercial speedqueen,wascomat,maytag,huebsch,dexter etc and independant tests have proven that for many years.

Consider Model 30010G5X
***4.1 cu feet cappacity (true not IEC) so cant be compared to the 3.8xxx home style machines on the market. Its bigger and is considered to be a true 25lb machine.

***Fits thru a standard 36" door
***Can be ordered in 120/60/1 (single phase) electrical service.
***Must be anchored and grouted to a concrete flooe but u only need 4 inches of concrete for this particular model.
***30 programmable formulas (cycles)
***manual soap shoot
***optional 3 compartment self flushing dispenser
*** will wash a true 25lb load (1 wash and 2 rinses)in 35 minutes not 1.5 hours as with common home style front loaders using a total of 30 gallons of water.
*** 2 water levels self adjusting to size of the load...low for sudsing, bleaching,finishing(softening) and hi for flushing and rinsing.
***fast washing cycles....hi mechanical action with adequit amounts of water to get the job done fast. Consider 25lbs 30 gallons 1 wash 2 rinses compared to a typical large capacity top loader 11-12 pounds at very most 1 wash 1 rinse 40 or more gallons. Its very efficient.
*** does require a floor drain...the size of the drain does not matter
*** by law....the machine has to gravity dump into an open drain trench capable of holding the full dump
*** a pvc drain trench(capacity 15 gallons) can be purchased for about $150.00....whatever the size of your floor drain......pvc pipe can be ran to it from the trench

Post# 102847 , Reply# 8   1/10/2006 at 11:46 (6,680 days old) by trok_99 ()        
And some more facts

 Unlike the 20 year old (35 lb MILNOR's)called TRIPLE LOADERS you may see in your local laundramat.

Todays Milnors have 1 single motor, an inverter to control speeds and all have microprocessors.

While a very reliable set up...since they are still running 30 years later....older MILNOR's used 2 motors, 2 cluches all tied together by a jackshaft to achieve different speeds. And in addition to that...these machines were timer controled and used multiple relays and contacters to stop the normal function of the timer...when the machine was distributing the load and changing speeds.

Some people will say that repairing an older milnor was just too complex. Complex yes ( to a novice) but reliable.

Milnor has been using single motors and inverters for over 5 years now. People familiar with older Milnors open up the back of a new one and immediatley ask "where's all the stuff"?

Post# 102995 , Reply# 9   1/11/2006 at 11:23 (6,679 days old) by washboy2005 (UK)        
sorry to butt in but....

 how much is a regular Miele washer on your side of the pond?

if you have sufficient funds why not go for a Miele?


Just a thought

Post# 103034 , Reply# 10   1/11/2006 at 16:27 (6,679 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        
I've Seen Those Trenches at the Laundramat

 They look like concerte horse troughs that horses drink out of. All the Wascomats drain into them. The floor of the trough is sloped slightly towards the drain at one end of the trough. There is usually also a lot of dust bunnies and debris in them too.

Post# 103600 , Reply# 11   1/14/2006 at 11:01 (6,676 days old) by frontloadfan (Wellfleet, Ma.)        
Check Out E-Bay Today for Commercial Washers

 I just checked out e-bay and there were two interesting entries for commercial washers.

First Item: a Primus machine made in Belgium, has a buy
price of $1,050, lists capacity as 48 lbs. They state they will ship (but at what cost?)

Second Item(s): five machines available; they are Dexter brand and listed at 40 lbs. capacity. The listing states that machines are currently in use but will be freed up as soon as new machines arrive. The seller of these machines states they specialize in selling used commercial washers.

It occurs to me that if you live in a major metro area, you may be able to find a local company that specializes in selling new and used commercial washers.

I know that it is possible to get a service contract so that all repairs are covered and you would probably get regular check-ups. The question I wonder is which would be the most cost effective - to pay for a service contract or just wing it and assume that it is unlikely machine will need repair?

I guess another way to think about it is that you could pay $1000 to $1400 for a mega home unit or you could pay $5000 for the mega commercial unit. It appears that if the home unit lasts 6 to 10 years, you would be better off with it that going with the commerical unit.

I guess the best of both world might be going with the Speed Queen front loader. Just too bad they don't make a home "double load" unit.

Post# 103938 , Reply# 12   1/15/2006 at 18:05 (6,675 days old) by trok_99 ()        
check out ebay for commercial washers

 Primus made in the check republic.....equals Maytag commercial
Dexter...okay but mostly laundramat versions

if u want a used commercial machine make sure u are getting and OPL (On premise Laundy) model

coin machins while they can be converted to a start button rather than a coin slot have very limmited short cycles and u cannot be flexable. It is what it is. if the washtime is set at 6 minutes ...that's it

Post# 104057 , Reply# 13   1/16/2006 at 12:02 (6,674 days old) by frontloadfan (Wellfleet, Ma.)        
How Goes the Research?

 Hey Partsandpieces,

How goes the research? Have you made a determination if a commercial washer will work out for you?

Post# 104131 , Reply# 14   1/16/2006 at 21:03 (6,674 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
And most spin out at around 90 G's. Will take a while to dry in a standard home dryer, and you will probably have to dry a single load from a commercial FL divided in at least 2 separate loads. A single full load from an 18# doubleloaders fills a 30# dryer.

Post# 104167 , Reply# 15   1/17/2006 at 02:26 (6,674 days old) by mrx ()        
Miele - water consumption

 You can programme a Miele to use more water. If you select the deep fill rinse options the machine will fill to almost half way up the glass door for every rinse. Also, all of the delicate washes are done at this level by default.

You can also have it increase the water level during the wash, but by a somewhat less dramatic amount.

Advantages:
You can add items at any stage during the wash cycle as the door will open (provided the temp. is not too hot)
(If the temp is too hot or the water is too deep the door locks.)

Rinses are done with loads of water...

Gets your clothes perfectly clean.

Also, you can select a vast range of cycles e.g. If you have particularly filthy / stained items:

Fill (adding detergent)... soak for several hours (tumbling once in a while)... then, short prewash (using same fill).. empty, spin... fill for main wash (more detergent added)... wash... rinses (with a spin after each)... final spin up to 1800 rpm

Nothing can possibly remain dirty after that cycle :)

The delicate cycles are excellent too. It can litterally simulate handwashing.

Post# 104308 , Reply# 16   1/17/2006 at 20:11 (6,673 days old) by dag (Pennsylvania, US)        
Speed Queen homestyle machines?

 Have you considered the Speed Queen residential machines?

These run on 110V single phase, have drain pumps, and are set up for normal US residential use.

It's a nice place between the actual commercial models with special power, mount and drain requirements and the everyday consumer retail front loaders.

Disclaimer: I have a CTS90AWN and CES69AWF, and I love them.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO dag's LINK
Post# 104628 , Reply# 17   1/19/2006 at 10:28 (6,671 days old) by designgeek ()        


Clarification re. MrX item above: You can open the door on the Miele when the water level is not above the door line! If you try to open the door when using a high-water cycle, you'll get to experience the extra feature of getting a clean floor, the hard way:-)

Although conventional wisdom here says that high-water is better, if you have the option, try it both ways and see what works for you. Most people find that the regular water-conserving cycles do a fine job most of the time. The key point seems to be rinses, and in that case, reducing detergent somewhat can also help a lot without compromising cleaning effectiveness.

Post# 104663 , Reply# 18   1/19/2006 at 13:35 (6,671 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
(If the temp is too hot or the water is too deep the door lo

 MRX put the above line in hist post.

With a Miele, the only way to open the door, once the above criteria have occured, and if you cant do a pump out, is to use the emergency release. In theory you're supposed to drain the water out through the coin trap first.

So its impossible to get a clean floor the hard way.

Post# 104664 , Reply# 19   1/19/2006 at 13:46 (6,671 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Did we address the 4 inch (100 mm) gravity drains? Didn't see it

IMHO gravity drains can be safely reduced to a reasnable std, size; the machine will just take longer to drain. Hopefully the time allotted by the timer/processor is sufficient to allow the machine to empty once the machine's drain size is reduced.

Post# 104677 , Reply# 20   1/19/2006 at 17:02 (6,671 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
A coin-op washer is typically given 1 minute timer increment to drain.

Post# 105134 , Reply# 21   1/23/2006 at 03:13 (6,668 days old) by mrx ()        
Washing the floor with a miele is very difficult!

 As Brisnat said Miele machines will only open the door under the following circumstances:

1) The water temp. has not reached 60C
2) The water level is below the door.
3) The programme has not been "locked-in" i.e. on the novotronic models, if you press and hold the start button the door locks and machine allow any adjustments to the cycle. It's designed to prevent kids from playing with your machine during a cycle.

Basically, if you forget something during the first few mins of the wash, you can throw it it.


If, and this is incrediably unlikely, you need to empty the machine manually due to a breakdown, there is a little hose attached to the filter at the front. You pop the door open, turn the filter a quarter turn and the water starts flowing out of this little hose. You can stop/start the flow as necessary and empty the water into a pot/pan or alternatively, hook a hose up to it and run it out the door! The machine will drain out by gravity.

Also, there's an "anti-syphoning" system in Mieles that prevents the machine from draining even if the drain hose is flat on the ground. This allows you to drain the machine via a floor level drain, should you wish to do so.

Other features (Novotronic models... other models are more advanced again)
You can:
Add extra deep water to any wash and add extra rinses via the programmable "Water Plus" option button (it has at least 4 options)
Add a pre-wash to any cycle (Except wool)
Add a soak to any cycle (except wool)
You can also add both (prewash happens first, then a long soak)
The soak time is programmable.

You can adjust the wash temprature for the first few mins of the wash. After the first few mins, the novotronic controls will lock the temp to prevent "tampering" by kids / others.

You can skip part of the wash cycle by turning the control to "Finish" and then back to the cycle it was on. The machine will then skip e.g. from Wash to Rinse.

Spin speed is freely selectable, although the machine will not let you add an inappropriately fast spin to wool / delicate cycles.

Other than that: minor features:
You can have the machine fill using both the prewash and the mainwash parts of the drawer for every wash, if you so wish.

It's an incrediably programmable / user controllable machine.

Post# 105138 , Reply# 22   1/23/2006 at 04:49 (6,667 days old) by mistervain ()        

I wish that was here in the States!


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