Thread Number: 48558
Good deal On This GE Dishwasher?
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Post# 703595   9/16/2013 at 17:24 (3,929 days old) by boboh1 (California)        

I have the opportunity to purchase this vintage GE dishwasher. I have asked for more detailed pictures but the seller said all functions work well and they want $245 for it. Does anyone know about this machine and is the asking price too much? Thanks.




Post# 703604 , Reply# 1   9/16/2013 at 19:01 (3,929 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
That Is.....

danemodsandy's profile picture
A Model GGSD650L; it appears in the 1972 GE full-line brochure available from Automatic Ephemera. It could have been in production from earlier years, so don't take the 1972 date as the only year it could have been made.

It's a four-cycle machine, one model below the TOL Versatronic. Along with all the features that are visible when you look at the machine, it has a soft food waste disposer in it.

I'll stay out of the pricing question. I think this model is still early enough to have a porcelain interior instead of Plastisol, but I would definitely check that, because GE's Plastisol of the '70s gave a lot of trouble. The brochure does not specify the tub liner material.

That front panel is a custom finish; this is too late for Turquoise (gone by '67) as a factory color. The panel was interchangeable; you could order a panel in Harvest, Avocado, Coppertone or brushed chrome in addition to the stock White.

Good luck!


Post# 703605 , Reply# 2   9/16/2013 at 19:02 (3,929 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
What the market will bear.

bajaespuma's profile picture

Without seeing the inside, I'd guess that this is a 1970 model. 245 clams for a 50+ year-old GE dishwasher is steep unless it's in mint condition. For me, if it has the blue selecta-level racks I would consider paying that price for it, especially if I didn't have to pay a lot to have it transported to me. Do you have any shots of the interior?


Post# 703607 , Reply# 3   9/16/2013 at 19:13 (3,929 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Selecta Level Racks:

danemodsandy's profile picture
The brochure only describes the Selecta Level Racks shown in Ken's photo as coming with the TOL Versatronic; the GGSD650L is described as having "full extension racks."

This, of course, does not mean that the Selecta Level Racks weren't available on this machine in another model year; I can only tell you what I'm seeing in the 1972 brochure.


Post# 703612 , Reply# 4   9/16/2013 at 20:27 (3,929 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Late 60s- early 70s GE DW

combo52's profile picture

Frist of all GE NEVER MADE a drop door DW with a PORCELAIN INTERIOR. This DW has been painted Turquoise as it is too new for this color and the price is way too much unless it is in perfect almost unused condition.

 

That said it is a fairly fixable DW for a DW of this time period [ as long as there is no rusting issues ], but a KA or a WP from time period would be a better daily driver and even an unreliable Westinghouse would wash much better.

 

Good Luck and talk them way down if you are really interested in this DW.


Post# 703613 , Reply# 5   9/16/2013 at 20:36 (3,929 days old) by bluejay (Havre de Grace, MD)        

bluejay's profile picture
Unrelated, but is that DW set up in a GE wonder kitchen? It looks like there are metal cabinets on either side and a stainless counter.

Post# 703617 , Reply# 6   9/16/2013 at 21:31 (3,929 days old) by boboh1 (California)        
Thanks..

You guys sure know your stuff. I asked the seller for interior pictures but am still waiting. They were selling a whole kitchen and this was one of the pieces. Guess they did not sell it all so selling each piece. I must have asked about it when it was listed. I'll wait for the interior shot then post it before I make a much lower offer.

Post# 703640 , Reply# 7   9/17/2013 at 03:36 (3,929 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Thanks John.

toploader55's profile picture
I didn't think GE did a Porcelain interior. My Mom's 1961 Princess roll out tub was Plastisol. As was my Aunt's Front Load that replaced her 1948 HotPoint Electric Sink.

Post# 703646 , Reply# 8   9/17/2013 at 04:54 (3,929 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Plastisol:

danemodsandy's profile picture
I would inspect the bejabbers out of this machine, in person, before making any commitment. GE's Plastisol of the '70s was prone to peeling and bubbling. The bottom of the tub's front opening is one place you should look at, very critically; bubbling and rust often started here.

Once bubbling and rust begin on a GE, there is no stopping it. You could buy yourself some time with a dishwasher liner repair kit, which was a coating you could apply after grinding away the bubbled, rusty areas, but the repair didn't last very long, either.

Again, in-person inspection.


Post# 703653 , Reply# 9   9/17/2013 at 06:49 (3,929 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

GE's Plastisol in the late 50s and early 60s was subject to rusting also. The tiniest perforation of the plastic would allow moisture to get to the steel and start rust. The most vulnerable place in the toploading portables was on the inside of the cover in the Power Shower models where the stainless steel dimple-shaped escutcheon in the lid was located to join the little feed tube that came up at the front of the tank. The area around that escutcheon would often blister with rust under the Plastisol. In the front loaders, the door with that hump that kinves cut as the lower rack was pushed back into the machine was generally the first place to rust. That is why the later machines had a hard plastic panel on the inner door there. For GE, plastic tubs were a great improvement in durability whereas in Maytag they were seen as a step down from the porcelain.



Post# 703683 , Reply# 10   9/17/2013 at 14:10 (3,929 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

iheartmaytag's profile picture
I second the "eyes on inspection" advise.
Besides the tub issues that were mentioned. The GE turbo pumps were susceptible to seal issues where the motor joins the pump. Good washing machines though.


Post# 703712 , Reply# 11   9/17/2013 at 17:47 (3,928 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
The main issue..

Besides the Plastisol, is that it will sound like a chainsaw running, I always thought they washed ok, but NOISY!

Post# 703874 , Reply# 12   9/18/2013 at 13:44 (3,928 days old) by bwoods ()        
Plastisol Interior and Porcelain Interiors

A little pricey, but this dishwasher is a real thoroughbred! 

 

I would agree with the others this unit is a 71 or 72 model.

 

My family got this dishwasher in 1973.  The only difference was the cosmetics of the control panel escutcheon.    It had the Plastisol interior and lasted until about 1984 when my parents replaced it due to rust under the Plastisol in the bottom of the tub near the sump. So that was it's downfall. 

 

 No issues at all otherwise and it was still working well when my dad replaced it.  As I have stated in other postings, after we had it for several days, my mother exclaimed, "I never knew a dishwasher could be this good."   The circular sump grate had wide openings and it allowed relatively large sized voluminous amounts of food wastes to enter the "soft food wastes disposer."   I took advantage of this and when my mom, who was a moderate rinser, wasn't looking I made sure there was plenty of garbage left on the dishes when I loaded it.

 

As far as noise, yes it was noisy but not excessively.  There was no doubt it was running, but it was not overly obtrusive and  you had no trouble having conversation in the kitchen.

 

There was a misstatement in one of the above postings.  Here is a cut and paste of it:

"Frist [first] of all GE NEVER MADE a drop door DW with a PORCELAIN INTERIOR. ".      

 

 Actually, General Electric had porcelain tubs in front loading dishwashers for many years.

 

General Electric changed from the Plastisol coated steel tubs to the all plastic "PermaTuf" tub in their built-in units, however in their convertible untils they retained steel tubs,  but with a Porcelain coating. 

 

General Electric continued to produce these Porcelain tub drop-door units through the mid-80's. 

 

Attached is the description from the GE major appliance catalogue that says these tubs were not only porcelain but "double-fired porcelain enamel."   I guess if once is good, twice is better.  :)    

 




This post was last edited 09/18/2013 at 15:20
Post# 703887 , Reply# 13   9/18/2013 at 14:29 (3,928 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
Barry:

danemodsandy's profile picture
First, thank you for confirming a memory.

I said what I said about GE dishwashers and porcelain interiors, because I knew Hotpoint used them, even on BOL units; the BOL units in an apartment complex I lived in in the '70s had them. It seemed reasonable to assume GE had used them at some point, which was wrong of me, but at least I wasn't completely off-base. Thank you.

Your photo also brings up something else that is almost unbelievable in this day and age - GE still makes an undersink DW. The GE Website shows it, but I have found that it's ungodly expensive for what is essentially a lower-MOL model, around $850. Still, it's out there, which is quite something. From the tiny photos I've seen, it appears, sadly, that it's electronic control now, instead of a mechanical timer. I'm not sure that I'd want to throw $850 at a specialty model with an electronic control board sitting there waiting to blow.

But if you need one, you can get one.


Post# 703918 , Reply# 14   9/18/2013 at 18:29 (3,927 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Porcelain Tub Drop Door Models

combo52's profile picture

As a service guy I will always consider these [ GE ] porcelain tub models Hotpoint's, so while you guys are correct that there was actually a PT DD GE DW it  was never anything that GE promoted as one of their better DWs. 

 

I think that these HPs were added to the GE lineup mainly for property mangers that were leary of the new plastic tubs that GE was using in all their main lineup after all the problems these property managers had with the plastisol tub GE DWs.

 

The ironic thing was the new GE plastic tub DWs held up much better than the porcelain tub HPs that had lots of rust issues, they were almost as bad as as D&Ms cheap porcelain tubs.


Post# 703922 , Reply# 15   9/18/2013 at 19:13 (3,927 days old) by bwoods ()        
GE Porcelain tubs

Hee hee. Try to squirm your way out of it now, John. :)





This post was last edited 09/18/2013 at 19:48
Post# 703930 , Reply# 16   9/18/2013 at 20:17 (3,927 days old) by danemodsandy (The Bramford, Apt. 7-E)        
I Think....

danemodsandy's profile picture
The reason for the porcelain-on-steel tub in the convertible/portable machines was that the tub was part of the structure on that generation of GE portables; the tub helped hold the whole thing together. A steel tub was fine for that purpose whether it was Plastisol or porcelain, and GE was getting away from Plastisol, so porcelain would have been the answer.

The plastic Perma-Tuf tub must have presented some issue that precluded its use in convertible/portable machines, at least at first, and my guess is that the structural issue was it; testing might have shown that extra structural bracing would be needed, or something. There had to be a very good reason, because outfitting all dishwashers with the same tub is cheaper than having to deal with two different tubs.



Post# 703935 , Reply# 17   9/18/2013 at 20:30 (3,927 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Believe that there were either 2 or 3 different GE plants producing dishwashers in the 80s timeframe---Louisville producing PermaTuf (both GE branded as well as for the OEM customers which really made GE successful in dishwashers during the 80s), Milwaukee producing porcelain (Hotpoint, GE portables and specialty) until the plant closed and the Canada plant producing porcelain--there were Canadian porcelain d/w with an unusual filter system in the lineup (I remember seeing them in the late 80s in Canada). Plastisol was replaced completely by PermaTuf by 1980, leaving as mentioned porcelain for specialty/portable uses. I worked for GE Capital from 1989-1992 and paid attention to that kind of things.

Post# 704010 , Reply# 18   9/19/2013 at 07:27 (3,927 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Those GE convertibles were so Hotpointy that they even used the Hotpoint timer knob. I wonder what they looked like inside with the racks, a GE or a Hotpoint. Before these models, GE convertibles had the Plastisol coated steel tub. With the advent of GE's totally plastic tubs, it must have been cheaper to use the Hotpoint production line with the porcelain tubs than to continue to produce a limited run of Plastisol tanks for the convertibles which would make them more of a Hotpoint machine with a porcelain tub and a GE badge than a true GE machine although by the mid 70s, the wash system in the HP DWs was the BOL GE system with the big, flat wash arm with the punched out holes. HP still kept their center spray tower in those, however.

Post# 704031 , Reply# 19   9/19/2013 at 09:23 (3,927 days old) by bwoods ()        
GE Production of Porcelain Tub Dishwashers

The lastest GE catalog that I have with porcelain tub dishwashers is dated March, 1989. Unfortunately, my next most recent catalog is for the 1993 model line and the GE portable/covertible dishwashers had been changed over to PermaTuf by this time.

So, somewhere in the 1989 through 1993 timeframe General Electric ceased production of their porcelain tub machines, making it quite a lengthy time that GE produced them.

Do you have the date of the shutdown of GE's Milwaulkee plant, Jamie?


Post# 704099 , Reply# 20   9/19/2013 at 15:23 (3,927 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture
I wonder if the Canadian models were, in fact, Hotpoints.... When I was a brat, my family had a 1978 GE convertible that had a porcelain on steel tub, BUT I remember acquaintances who had slightly fancier GE built-ins of the same vintage with porcelain on steel tubs, too. My first house, which I bought in 1989, had a brand-new, one-down-from-the-TOL GE Potscrubber II - it also had the porcelain tub, but may have been one of the last!

Post# 704276 , Reply# 21   9/20/2013 at 15:33 (3,926 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)        

maytaga806's profile picture
How on earth could there be a dishwasher directly under the sink? Thats like impossible. where is the drain pipe and the water pipes?

Post# 704279 , Reply# 22   9/20/2013 at 15:42 (3,926 days old) by william637 (Damp pants? Not a chance. )        
How can it be under a sink?

william637's profile picture
It is basically only full sized on the lower rack. The upper rack only goes back a few inches (enough for one, maybe two rows of glasses).

Also, the sinks that went with those units are VERY shallow.


Post# 704283 , Reply# 23   9/20/2013 at 16:17 (3,926 days old) by kowidge ()        
How can it be under a sink?

For anyone who has ever lived in Brooklyn, when you see the add that says 'dishwasher included', you know these machines. My first apartment with my wife as newlyweds after I got out of the service, we had one of these. It was okay, but the top shelf only held like 4 glasses, and alot of flatware. The bottom was regular and overall did a good job, and the NYC cockroaches seemed to not go inside....much.

Post# 704297 , Reply# 24   9/20/2013 at 17:56 (3,925 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        

bajaespuma's profile picture

There's a diagram of the undersink dishwasher in Ephemera. I think it's in the 1962 GE Built-in dishwashers package.


Post# 704317 , Reply# 25   9/20/2013 at 19:59 (3,925 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

It also required a special sink with the drain in the rear corner and with that placement, you could install a disposer in the sink.

Post# 704328 , Reply# 26   9/20/2013 at 20:52 (3,925 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Milwaukee plant closed in 1991 (according to the Milwaukee Business Journal), which predated GE moving to the plastic washer by a couple years. They were doing some employee testing of the new washer design in the 1991-1992 timeframe (while I was at GE Capital)..also that porcelain d/w in Canada might have been about the same vintage. Reason with me here...the big cost for using porcelain in a d/w had to be the kiln/firing/etc. Presuming that Canada already had that equipment in their GE appliance plant (for washers/ranges/ovens/cooktops), it would be logical to use that for their dishwashers as well. ISTR that the Canadian d/w of the time mimicked the US perma-tuf lineup, with the entry level having no filtering (just the grinder) and the uplevel Canadian having a filtering system similar to the passive filter in the uplevel US perma-tuf lineup. The Canadian porcelain d/w had a triangular setup in the front corner of the tub, I vaguely recall.

Post# 704349 , Reply# 27   9/20/2013 at 23:09 (3,925 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

When we remodeled one of my cousin's kitchens about 10 years ago we put one of the GE undersink dishwashers in.  They wanted to maximize storage in a 1920's craftsman styled house and it worked well for them.  As far as I know they are still available.  In certain situations they are a perfect fit.



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