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Thread Number: 51701
What do you know about century-old Ruud water haaters? |
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Post# 740956 3/10/2014 at 16:34 (3,708 days old) by Volvoguy87  (Cincinnati, OH) |
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Sorry about not having been here much over the past few months, but I've been rather sick.
I've finally achieved a major goal. I now own an antique Ruud Instantaneous Automatic Water Heater. Mine is the No. 4 version and is probably from the 1920s. It was in use until recently. I will post pics once it is out of my truck. I plan on hooking this up as a pre-heater feeding my regular water heater (the regular water heater is just a bit too small for my needs). Is this the most sensible thing? No! Am I going to do it anyway? Absolutely! And yes, it is safe. I've been doing my reading and research, but I'd like to know if anyone here has ever had experience with one of these cast iron monsters and might have some helpful advice. Dave | ||
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Post# 740957 , Reply# 1 3/10/2014 at 16:47 (3,708 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Head Over To One Of The Plumber's Forums
You can easily find them by searching the Internet using keywords that describe your older Rudd unit. Those guys see lots of these things in various states some still in use others hauled out for scrap. Then there are posts from those that have them in their homes and want to keep them working.
Hope you are feeling better and good to see you posting again. L. | ||
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Post# 740964 , Reply# 2 3/10/2014 at 17:01 (3,708 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Hey Dave, Best wishes with your new Ruud water heater. Sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well - hadn't seen you on for a while, but just figured you were busy with your house. Hope you're doing lots better now. | ||
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Post# 741246 , Reply# 3 3/11/2014 at 22:41 (3,707 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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A pic. | ||
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Post# 741247 , Reply# 4 3/11/2014 at 22:42 (3,707 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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A shot for scale. | ||
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Post# 741257 , Reply# 5 3/11/2014 at 23:53 (3,707 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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 A friend of mine had an ancient instantaneous water heater in his house. I don't know if something needed tweaking or what, but with the tap opened fully, it would put out water that was beyond scalding hot. It was difficult to get the water regulated just right in order to wash dishes.
His house was around 100 years old and had only a bathtub; no shower, but even if there had been a shower I'd not have been inclined to use it.
I think you're wise not to use yours as the primary source for hot water.
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| Post# 741264 , Reply# 6 3/12/2014 at 01:21 (3,707 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
Never thought  | ||
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Post# 741266 , Reply# 7 3/12/2014 at 01:26 (3,707 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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As one understands those Rudd instant water heaters(and one assumes others of the same era) were designed to put out "HOT" water, lots of the stuff. However they also were designed when baths were more popular than showers and when housecleaning or work involved filling buckets and tubs including many early washing machines. That is one fills whatever you need with hot water then add cold to temper. Or adjust hot and cold taps as best one could to get things where they needed.
Dishes would have been done by filling a sink with hot water then adding cold to temper enough not to burn one's hands. From my bookmarks: www.post-gazette.com/life/homes/2... www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/... | ||
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Post# 741272 , Reply# 9 3/12/2014 at 02:13 (3,707 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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When you consider most house cleaning from laundry to dishes was being done with soap when those Rudd heaters came on the scene, you begin to understand the need for *hot* water, and lots of it.
As for how the Rudd worked, yes basically you had a set of copper coils over a burner. When hot water was called for the burners would send flames shooting up a good part of the coils heating cold water as it passed through. Am guessing the temperature of water could be controlled to an extent by the height of flame. 
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Post# 741278 , Reply# 10 3/12/2014 at 03:13 (3,707 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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This looks like an early Demand type water heater!!!NEAT!!That is a beauty to behold-If you should have to replace it-don't scrap it!Leave it for display!.Like the heating coils in the unit! | ||
| Post# 741282 , Reply# 11 3/12/2014 at 03:34 (3,707 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
Grandma had such a device, or nearly so. Hers was a few wider coils. Sorta like the difference between Calrod and Corox. It also had a small tank so 'some' hot water could be stored.
By the time I came along her coal boiler had been modified to natgas with a *gasp* thermostat instead of grandpa getting up an hour early to shovel coal. This was a thoroughly modern house in 1920 Pittsburgh. FOUR--countem--FOUR fuses! PUSHBUTTON light switches! The fridge had a separate motor, compressor, belt and pulleys. I remember evacuating the house the afternoon it caught fire from a small ammonia leak. The whole damn house could have burned down, or asphyxiated the lot of us, but we by gawd had ozone. Those were the days. [googoo eyes] | ||
| Post# 741291 , Reply# 12 3/12/2014 at 05:34 (3,707 days old) by athanasius80 (California) | ||
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Post# 741302 , Reply# 13 3/12/2014 at 07:25 (3,707 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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Function.
There is a variable gas valve which is controlled by the rate of water flowing into the heater. The faster the flow, the more the gas valve opens. I don't recall the output of a No. 4's burner, but I think it's somewhere between 200,000 and 250,000 BTUs. There is a 6" flue for the exhaust and a standing pilot. I hope the pilot keeps the water in the coils warm.
These were set to 150 degrees from the factory and, from what I have read, really cannot be adjusted much. The mechanically actuated system can have a temperature swing of about 15 degrees on either side of 150, depending on conditions. As I wrote at the top, I plan on using this as a pre-heater, feeding hot water into my conventional tank-style water heater. I hope the tank heater will only fire up to compensate for standby losses, to pick up the slack when the Ruud's capacity is exceeded, and to keep the recirculating loop warm (I am putting in a circulating water loop around the basement so that it will take less time to get hot water to the sinks and showers upstairs). I also want to install a thermostatic mixing valves after the conventional water heater and circulated loop to mix cold water into the flow to temper the hot water down to about 120 degrees. I want the sinks and showers to have a steady 120 to avoid scalding, and I think the thermostatic mixing valve will reduce temperature variations at the faucets. I intend to plumb the whole water heating system so I can operate a few valves and isolate either water heater for maintenance and repair of one but leave the other in service so the house will still have some hot water. I do intend to install an un-tempered branch coming off of the Ruud to supply liquid fire to my laundry room. When I want to wash in hot, I want to wash in HOT! The Ruud is tankless, instant, and everything that seems to be the latest craze in water heaters. It's just 90 years old, and I am looking forward to getting better acquainted with it. Dave | ||
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Post# 741304 , Reply# 14 3/12/2014 at 07:44 (3,707 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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 That is super cool, Dave, what a great piece of history.
There is ( or was) one of these in the window of an old plumbing shop downtown, I'll have to look next time I drive by to see if it's still there. Funny, I've always thought it would be interesting to stop in there and look around, see what other vintage treasures they might still have, but have never done it.
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Post# 741359 , Reply# 18 3/12/2014 at 14:35 (3,707 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Read somewhere on another website about these Rudd instant water heaters where two were being used in a commercial building to supply a 1,000 gallon hot water tank. So running these units as a sidebar system is not totally out of the question.
As noted one of the main reasons homeowners get shot of these beasts is lack of spare parts and or knowledgeable servicemen. It is interesting even far back as 1901 when these units were being advertised it mentions how sanitary they were. This was because unlike tanked units that were "never empty" thus could (and often did) have all sort of muck festering at the bottom of tank, Rudd's instant hot water units used a continuous flow of clean water. Rudd units were designed to take 40F water to 140F or 150F (cannot remember). | ||
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Post# 741394 , Reply# 19 3/12/2014 at 15:42 (3,706 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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Tandem use.
By using the Ruud to pre-heat the water, my modern tank-style heater would be filled with hot water instead of cold. The modern heater would only fire if its thermostat detected a drop in its water temperature below its setting. The reason why I want to use a tandem setup, aside from redundancy, is that I have a higher demand for hot water than either water heater is likely able to satisfy alone.
My insurance agent said that it's fine so long as its reliable and water temperature at the taps is within spec for residential use. Residential water heaters can be set as high as 160 degrees, but my thermostatic mixing valve will temper whatever the output temperature is down to 120. I don't want to get scalded either. The thermostatic mixing valve type of system is frequently used in large commercial systems (hotels, apartment buildings, etc.) where a smaller tank of very hot water with a mixing valve takes up less valuable space in a mechanical room than a larger tank of cooler water without a mixing valve. Safety is important regardless of age, Dave | ||
| Post# 741457 , Reply# 20 3/12/2014 at 19:38 (3,706 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas) | ||
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Yes be careful. These are the kind of heaters that when they explode they take off through the roof of even a multistory dwelling like a Saturn 5 and can land several blocks away. Also, I think the Millers on the Lassie tv show had one of these in their kitchen. | ||
| Post# 741464 , Reply# 21 3/12/2014 at 19:56 (3,706 days old) by turboace (Wilmington, NC) | ||
I understand the concept of the tempering valve but wonder about the efficiency. My new Ranaii instant water heater clearly states that it is much more efficient to use only hot water heated to the temp you need, vs. heating hotter and tempering. There is a remote in my master bath that you can change the temp of the Ranaii with for a bath for example, you turn on the hot tap only and then regulate the temp with the remote. This way you are only heating the water to the temp you need and not overheating and then cooling it back off. Just curious your thoughts on this.
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Post# 741473 , Reply# 22 3/12/2014 at 20:29 (3,706 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine) |
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Those Rinnai and other newer instant water heaters, just like my oil boilers tankless coil will only support one faucet open properly at a time. They are very efficient but running a dishwasher and showering at the same time is not recommended. There were some of those similar to that Rudd around here I saw as a kid, but nowhere near as nice. Most did have another storage tank to put the hot water in so you didnt run out like Dave is planning to do. As I remember, there was no thermostat to control the burner, either off or on and lit by hand, and no pressure relief valve on the ones around here.
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| Post# 741702 , Reply# 23 3/13/2014 at 21:59 (3,705 days old) by turboace (Wilmington, NC) | ||
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I actually have two Ranaii water heaters hooked up in series and they communicate with each other. When the demand is more than one can handle the other kicks in. I have four bathrooms and have never had an issue with not having enough hot water even with the dishwasher and washing machine going at the same time.
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Post# 743928 , Reply# 25 3/21/2014 at 16:32 (3,697 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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That is a very neat looking water heater, but......... | ||
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Post# 745019 , Reply# 26 3/25/2014 at 09:53 (3,694 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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Safety and price.
I ended up getting my Ruud for a Maytag A482 that I didn't want to have. It was a decent trade, although the Maytag was far easier to move.
Yes, I plan on adding a T&P valve. They are inexpensive and safety is a must. The Ruud, being tankless, does not have a reserve of water inside like a pot boiler. There is no tank to build up pressure and explode. If there was a rupture, it would be in a pipe and it would shoot water all over the place and make a terrible mess, but it would not explode or move. Retro-Man, a compression tank is a good idea, and is required by code in some areas. It consists of a tank with a rubber air bladder inside (actually, it's often a diaphragm between the wet end of the tank and the air-filled dry end). When the tank is dry, the bladder is filled with air to a set pressure through a schrader valve. When water is allowed into the wet end of the tank, it fills up and presses against the rubber air bladder. Should the water pressure increase due to the water's expansion as a result of heating, water hammer, etc., the air will compress and allow more water into the tank. When a faucet opens or the water pressure is otherwise decreased, the air bladder will expand. This system provides a bit of cushion in your plumbing to reduce pressure extremes. They are easy to install. Dave | ||
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Post# 745030 , Reply# 27 3/25/2014 at 11:14 (3,694 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Hi Dave
Best wishes for your health! Happy to see you posting again.
I remember you talking about finding a Ruud when you still lived in the old house with Wes, so congratulations on the new house, new Ruud, and all your projects. I have no knowledge to add here, just best wishes and happy to watch the thread---it gives me great ideas I may or may not ever put to use. Old Mark Norge | ||
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Post# 745064 , Reply# 28 3/25/2014 at 14:11 (3,694 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Hey Dave | ||
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Post# 745137 , Reply# 29 3/25/2014 at 19:00 (3,693 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Wasn't Dave But Me That Checked Out The Link
And it was grand! How much fun to read about those old Rudd heaters!
Even back in 1907 Rudd was advocating what is being pushed today for many larger NYC buildings that use steam heat. Instead of having to rely upon the side arm off the main boiler thus having to run it all year long; install a separate system for use in warmer times of the year and shut the main boilers down for the duration. Would love to have seen the system as shown in that book installed, just have been impressive. | ||
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Post# 765430 , Reply# 31 6/23/2014 at 14:05 (3,604 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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According to posts on plumbers forums
Those old Rudd water heaters aren't worth much unless someone wants it for parts or to actually use. Plumbers see them quite a lot in some areas it seems and when taken out of service are usually sold as scrap unless there is a demand to part out.
Given today's prices am willing to bet the copper will fetch probably more than someone wishing to purchase the whole unit. www.post-gazette.com/life/homes/2... CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK | ||
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