Thread Number: 624
Westy Redux
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Post# 50143   11/29/2004 at 20:54 (7,078 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        

cadman's profile picture
Hey, it's home! But I'm going to need your guys' help with this one, I'm afraid I'm over my head with this baby. My bud Ben and I hauled it down the basement stairs (HEAVY) and gave it a test drive. Everything appears to work, sans the timer. Am I detecting a trend?

But, it looks like the spring that counterbalances the door is just hanging inside, I don't see where it connects to (thus no weigh-to-save). And note the two rusty rods sitting in front of the machine, any idea where they go? The tub appears to "sag" at the opening, maybe just tired overhead springs?

While it's running, when it gets to any of the rinse positions where the tub needs to pick up speed, the solenoid from hell (see the arrow) engages, but buzzes continuously, loud enough to wake the dead! Continuous pressure with a screwdriver takes the buzz out. Are these AC solenoids, or DC? Reminds me of ripple getting into a DC relay like a failed diode.

Any Westy experts? This guy looks like a handful!





Post# 50144 , Reply# 1   11/29/2004 at 20:55 (7,078 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        

cadman's profile picture
And...the mechanism!

Post# 50148 , Reply# 2   11/29/2004 at 21:39 (7,078 days old) by maytagluver ()        
What a great looking machine

That's one good find you've got there.

As for the Weigh-to-Save, if you remove the lower front panel (2 screws at bottom) there is a metal piece that attaches to the frame of the washer, it has several "slots" on the side to adjust the tension of the springs for the door.
The spring then attaches to the metal piece then it goes to the frame. It can be a real cusser!!

The solenoid you've indicated operates the pump, once the solenoid engages, it pulls the pump pulley over to the motor, the pumps can be noisy. I've never heard the solenoid, generally speaking, making a lot of noise, I guess it's posssible.
The solenoids are AC, they can bite!!

I guess that I'm not sure what the rods are from, actually, the tub looks okay, the boot doesn't seem to be disformed as if the suspension wasn't working properly.

Since you move that beast to the basement, have you had your fitting for your truss??

The machine looks in FANTASTIC shape, you should enjoy it quite a while.

Hope I was of some help.

Al :)


Post# 50152 , Reply# 3   11/29/2004 at 22:08 (7,078 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Exxxxcuse me .....

jetcone's profile picture
I was wrong and I want to correct myself BEFORE UNI does or I'll be in deep detergent! This is not the flush mount door Pearl Bailey model.

Those rods look like shipping braces to me, the tub is offset down from the door, they came like that from the factory.
And AC solenoids will actup and jitter if the plunger can't slam completely down inside the body of the solenoid because of: 1) they are dirty OR 2) a metal tang on the plunger is bent 0R a wire is getting caught between the plunger and the body of the solenoid.

Try cleaning the solenoid (WITH THE MACHINE UNPLUGGED AT ALL TIMES).

Nice machine if the tub bearings are good it should be alot of fun to play with for a long time.

cheers
jet





Post# 50154 , Reply# 4   11/29/2004 at 22:29 (7,078 days old) by westytoploader ()        

That is one ultra-cool washer with the chrome ring around the door!!! Congratulations!

Anyone remember how they had the coppertone version of this in Mr. Mom? It was paired with a Kenmore dryer. Anyway to make a long story short, Michael Keaton overloads and oversudses the poor Westy and it "walks" all over the basement floor!


Post# 50160 , Reply# 5   11/29/2004 at 23:05 (7,078 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Wow - a low use machine for sure! Are you sure it's the solenoid chattering/buzzing? I've had the pump drive mounted incorrectly and it make a horrible rattle-racket.

Best of luck and enjoy the joys of front-load washing!


Post# 50165 , Reply# 6   11/30/2004 at 00:09 (7,077 days old) by programcomputer (Ann Arbor Michigan, USA)        
Listen for the noises from your Westinghouse washer...

programcomputer's profile picture
Hi,

My later 70's Westinghouse Spacemate washer buzzed VERY loudly during any spin/drain activity...which was enough to raise the dead like was told. I tried playin with the solenoid and lubing/cleaning the old one and ended up just springing for a new one, and was fortunate enought to find a NOS replacement solenoid i believe that it was less than $50.00 at the time?

It wasn't a difficult repair, but when replacing things I installed the flexible driveshaft wrong and it made this horrible whiring whipping, clapping noise...so you must be careful to replace it as instructed.Please note this as it happened and it almost cost me another pump due to my "brains child hands cum" method of fixing things then. If you do it get a repair master or at least a reprint from someone so it goes off well...

The weight to save thing was answered correctly as far as I can tell,mine operated kinda jankiety until I fussed with it then never had another issue. And yes every Westy FL that I have seen with the buggy spring (upper)/tong-ear(lower) suspensions sags quite a bit where newer FriGeMore versions, or even earlier pre 63' versions did not do so; or not nearly as much anyway. This was at least a 1964-94 year issue where the door was like on your machine that had the supension described rather roughly by me, or the four strut suspension like the older or newer machines.

And heavy!!!!...NO kiddin...did you not see the two HUGE concrete blocks, used as the inertia stabilizers?..One sitting on the top of the tub, then the other riding on the lower front of the tub....NO WONDER WHY THEY WEIGH 300+ lbs.

I also replaced the upper springs and the metal tab ears as well as when I get my set they were bent and looked saggier than most that I remember. This is caused by consistent overloading and misuse. I knew the family that traded in this set when I snapped them up...and they were a strictly "maintenence optional clan" I would suggest this for you and you may find that the tub raises a bit...and it wouldn't hurt for longevity purposes.

Timers are still available as I just found one from mine rebuilt thru an appliance part outlet here in town. The times was rather priey @ $130.00 more or less...but it's worth it since it's my only Westy set.

If you find the dryer match you will have a world class set that still washes as good if not better than many contemporary machines yet being made...maybe they have a slower spin speed than today's top-load or even front load varieties, but they still will do an awesome job for you....Good Find!!!

Chad


Post# 50166 , Reply# 7   11/30/2004 at 00:18 (7,077 days old) by programcomputer (Ann Arbor Michigan, USA)        
Oh yeah....

programcomputer's profile picture
I think the spin speed on mine is 540 rpm......Your is probable similar if not right on to this same rpm. Your is the 30 cabinet and mine is the 28 cabinet as my loading opeining is smaller than the one pictured.

This looks to definitly be a pre 1970 model as very few machines that I have seen from the post 70' era have all that metal cladding around the door and window. And Pear Bailey's Westinghouse set from the ad that I have looks JUSt like the machine pictured...just a later post 1970 model. In fact it's the same pic as the one that we see occasionally on the POD!!!

Anyway that's all I can think of...

Chad


Post# 50178 , Reply# 8   11/30/2004 at 06:41 (7,077 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Go Pearl and do your stuff!!!

Great find man and good luck with those great looking machines!


Post# 50184 , Reply# 9   11/30/2004 at 09:02 (7,077 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Congratulations on your find! That is a great machine to add to any collection. I have a repair-master for those machines. Just contact me if you would like for me to have a copy made and we will make the arrangements. Best wishes! -Steve

Post# 50197 , Reply# 10   11/30/2004 at 14:11 (7,077 days old) by programcomputer (Ann Arbor Michigan, USA)        
Actually, says Pearl...this is later after I started recievi

programcomputer's profile picture
Hi,

Aren't these later WCI White Westinghouse built machines anyway? If My memory serves me this was post, the great White Consolidated Industries tragedy of 74' when they bought Westinghouse.

How long did they use Ms. Bailey's services anyway? I know that I have this advert pictured two posts up, but I also have another ad with (just) the washer (in harvest gold) and her alone...in fact the washer model number stated in the ad I have in front of me is: LT870. It's virtually the same washer as above but in HG?

They apparently used her earlier as we seem to amass that "cadman's" unit is at least 1968-69 year area. BUT...if they used her in an an for the flush door models...that must have been as early as 1964.Or did they build these "flushdoor models longer"???

Anyway...absolutly BEAUTIFUL machine that I hope you keep for many years to come and even if it makes that horrible noise. Those TOL machines are just getting harder and harder to find.....


Thanks

Chad

Oh and P.S. I think after all this talk Im going to go up and wash the bedding in the apartment above my garage, pretty soon I will be having everyone back for Christmas and I will need it ready...so I will be washing ala Westinghouse this evening...Happy thoughts!!!!!


Post# 50219 , Reply# 11   11/30/2004 at 19:58 (7,077 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        
real westy

what was the approx run time for regular cycle on these great westy's? bet there was not a lot of time wasted with that try to spin, tumble and retry spin situation that we now have, to balance the load. Thanks alr2903

Post# 50224 , Reply# 12   11/30/2004 at 20:26 (7,077 days old) by Brent-Aucoin ()        
What a great find!

Your new machine is beautiful! It is in such good shape.
I have a version of that machine. It is fun! Wonderful machine for Permanant Press items. I think it is that long cool-down before the first spin.
That is a keeper for sure!
Thanks for the pictures.
Brent


Post# 50249 , Reply# 13   11/30/2004 at 22:44 (7,077 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Thanks!

cadman's profile picture
Thanks for all the great comments guys, I'm still a little leary of front loaders but I'm really curious to see it in action once I take care of some of the smaller issues.....timer, solenoid, and bypassing the tub light switch!

I think Jetcone is right about those being shipping braces, I found them behind the bottom panel sitting in an interior "ledge" where they had a chance to rust up over all the years of moisture and operation.

The notched plate for the door spring was also laying in side, I'm not sure exactly where to attach that though.

The other interesting thing is all the service work done over the years. Scribbled in pencil on the rear of the machine and on the back of the front service panel are lots of dates, part numbers, and services performed while the machine was open. Belts, pumps, lubes, etc.

BUT, now that I'm getting my machines lined up in their own area, I need to devise some sort of drain system. What do you big collectors typically do? : )


Post# 50254 , Reply# 14   12/1/2004 at 02:03 (7,076 days old) by programcomputer (Ann Arbor Michigan, USA)        
Westinghouse Cycle times..not at ALL long to me....

programcomputer's profile picture
Dameitt....It's snowing again here tonight and I just got back in the house from changin out the last load from my Spacemates Dryer to the linen closet up ther in my garage apt.

My Spacemate washer has (and Im paraphrasing here a tad): On Regualr Cycle-14 minute wash,one minute tumble drain, 1-2 minute fill for rinse, three or so minute agitation, one minute drain, 1-2 minute fill for second rinse,three or so minute agitation, one minute tumble drain and finally a five minute damp dry.

Basically in little over a half hour my Spacemate is done...and if you use Perm-Press cycle..plan on setting up an easy chair...that thing takes 45-50 minutes at least to complete a cycle then.... The knits delicate cycle is I believe like 20 minutes long....

Yeah the tub braces are definitly needful things ( even when rusted and nasty like described) because it DOES seem like peole who owned them actually listened to the dealer or owners manual...and most that I have seen still have the braces with the machine..which when moving, is a good thing. Otherwise it screws up the suspension in it, then you have a mess to deal with...

Leary? May I ask Why?

If you have never owned one I can undrestand why in a way...they do operate so differently thatn conventional washers..but their like tanks when properly set up, used and maintained.

I was the very first in my family of the new generation meaning anyone born after I was in the mid 70's to own one. Everyone thought I was crazy, besides my paternal grandmother who started my crazed washer obsession with her Laundromats from 63'. Everyone said that they wouldn't last and that they woud leak and that I would constatly have to keep fixing them....

Well guess what they still wash well, I still have them AND use them with no MAJOR fixes needed the timer NOT withstanding becasue it could happen with ANY washer. AND it only leaked ONE TIME, but not the machines fault. When I first had them I jammed it so full it kept pushing the clothes against the door...

I know stupid, stupid,stupid..but also bear in mind that I did this when I first got the set and figured I could cram them until they bursted...which thankfully after seeing that my laundry was NOT clean and had a puddle under the door.. I never did that again... And as long as you don't overload or oversuds them their as reliable and in fact longer lasting than most other vintage automatic washers IMHO.

In fact one by one...becasue of my tireless talking about them...almost everyone in my family now has Frigidaire or Kenmore built front loader set...and none of them report any problems, nor do they remember that at one time they wouldn't even look at them...my my how attitudes change once you actually try it before you shun it...

Im not saying that you are...but look at that thing. How could you NOT love a vintage Laundromat???? I almost get teary looking at yours....it's so nice and hopefully you may be fortunate to find a matching dryer as well....

Enjoy that Westy......

And Remember: Stop into your Westinghouse Dealer and Look into a Laundromat...That's why we put a WINDOW in there!!!

Chad


Post# 50317 , Reply# 15   12/1/2004 at 23:59 (7,075 days old) by westytoploader ()        
Tech Questions

Did the Westinghouse FL machines from the 1950's onto the 1990's fill and drain neutrally, or fill/drain while tumbling? Also, did the pump run part-time (only during drain and spin), or run full-time with a solenoid-operated drain valve like the Bendix machines?

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Austin


Post# 50447 , Reply# 16   12/4/2004 at 20:32 (7,073 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Hey Austin-

cadman's profile picture
Looks like the pump on this one only operates when commanded. Turns out the pump solenoid is what's faulty (and waking the dead). When it's engaged, it pulls an idler against the drive belt, the idler in-turn connected via a flexible shaft to the front of the machine where the pump is located.

So the question is....where might I find this pump solenoid? I really want to see this thing in operation!

Oh, and I was able to bypass the door switch for the lamp so I've got continued operation. The timer works for parts of the cycle but not all of it, internal contacts that control the motor?


Post# 50448 , Reply# 17   12/4/2004 at 21:39 (7,073 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Yeah I thought so...that's how it is on the Bendix. I'm having "buzz trouble" with it's drain valve solenoid as well, but luckily I located new Philco-Bendix solenoids from Granger (this washer was still in use when I bought it in July, believe it or not). If you can take a picture of the solenoid so we can see how it's mounted to the washer it will be easier to see what works and what won't. Repairclinic.com sells some Westy FL parts but I didn't notice any solenoids the last time I looked...if I end up finding one I'll post it here.

--A.W.


Post# 50449 , Reply# 18   12/4/2004 at 22:01 (7,073 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Hey Chad, since Inever got to see a Laundromat with a Perm Press cycle, why did it have 45-50 mins for that cycle vs. about 30 for the regular cycle?

Post# 50454 , Reply# 19   12/5/2004 at 01:08 (7,072 days old) by programcomputer (Ann Arbor Michigan, USA)        
On Westinghouse lead times...and where to find a

programcomputer's profile picture
Appnut-

The lead times are longer becasue, well with most washers they have to either keep draining and refilling to keep the clothes cooled down so they dont wrinkle excessivly.

I'm obviously probably excessive in time frame as I do not use them as much as I used to considering where they are now, but the Perm Press cycle seems like it took forever; or not NEARLY as long as Regular. It has no spins until the finish and it tumbles continuously and it uses much more water than the regular cycle.

IMHO..When I start mine,It tumbles dry for like a minute, then has a two to three minute water fill, then goes on to wash for up to 8 minutes then does this continuous tumble,drain,spray operation for like 5 minutes then it just tumbles for another three with nothing going on...then the pump disengages and it fills up with more water two minutes and agitates for like five more minutes , then it goes into another 5 minute tumble,drain, spray between deep rinses, then it just tumbles with nothing going on again for another three minutes; then it fills for rinse #2 about two/three minutes or so then does another five minute rinse....then it ddoes it's last tumble,drain spray for like five more minutes...then has a two-three minute spin then it tumbles for a minute then shuts off... so anywher with mistakes 45-50 minutes.

I got my solenoid for my pump at Electric Appliance Parts in Lansing Michigan....this was also 5 years ago. It's an old school kinda place not all high tech and the people there know their buisness that's why I like them. I would just suggest that you flip open your phone book and call around to your local appliance parts distributors...have model number and serial number ready as they HATE it when you don't...or at least the places around here do anyway.....

If they laugh at you hang up on them, I have went far beyond my state to be treated like a human being. Unfortunatly too many repair places don't give a hoot and hollerin about what we do and care less about a 35 year old machine and some stupid solenoid.

They (unfortunatly),wanna sell the $500.00 control board to a Maytag Neptune (im being so facetious here ya'll, I know that their not $500.00); instead of helping you. that's why I like EAP here in Lansing. He even lets me rent repair masters. He has one for old solid tub Frigidaires, Centric Action Kelvinators, Franklin Style machines, Westinghouse Laundromats, He even used to have one for the old bolt down Bendix's but someone apparently bought it.

So anyway...that's all I have to say about that....

The number if your interested to EAP is.....(517)-393-0700..they are super nice and will do all they can to find stuff for you....at least they have for me....

Chad



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