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Thread Number: 66508
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
Lenor = Downy |
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| Post# 891443 , Reply# 1 7/28/2016 at 16:57 (2,614 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK) | ||
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Apologies, the title of the thread should have a question mark at the end since I am debating rather than stating a point. | ||
Post# 891495 , Reply# 5 7/29/2016 at 02:40 (2,613 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sadly Downy "April Fresh" Fabric Softener Of Today 
Smells nothing like the stuff of old. That is what one recalls from the 1970's through say early 1990's. At least here on this side of the pond.
Being as this may in an odd twist Tide with a "touch" of Downy does have a scent more like Downy fabric softener of old. So P&G does still have that formula kicking around. | ||
| Post# 891851 , Reply# 15 7/31/2016 at 17:42 (2,611 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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I've got to say, I am loving P&G laundry stuff right now. Ariel powder smells very similar to the Essential formula (does anyone else think this, when I sniff the box I swear I've smelt the fragrance before but can't remember where from) and the other products in the range are brilliant. | ||
| Post# 891964 , Reply# 20 8/1/2016 at 10:20 (2,610 days old) by spiraclean (UK) | ||
If the green Bold is the same as the old Active Fresh, I will be ON THAT. Back in the day that was my go-to product, and I really was not pleased when it disappeared from the shops.
Haven't bought Ariel for a few years now, because the scent just got too sharp, for want of a better description. Had a sniff of the new Ariel Colour recently though and was pleasantly surprised to find it now has a milder, more floral fragrance. Don't know if the regular Ariel is the same, but will have to check that out. | ||
| Post# 891965 , Reply# 21 8/1/2016 at 10:22 (2,610 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Thanks Just searching online, the new green bold is apparently called Plumeria and White Orchid. Tesco are also showing a Bold "Gold Freesia" but no picture? Is the new green one on sale at Asda yet? | ||
| Post# 892055 , Reply# 29 8/1/2016 at 16:01 (2,610 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Going on amazon.fr is quite an eye opener, lots of different varieties of detergents we don't get here! Would love some Ariel Alpine though! Will do regarding the Bold. Quite excited about it possibly being like the Bold of old and not the latest incarcerations that smell like tart's handbags. | ||
| Post# 892073 , Reply# 33 8/1/2016 at 17:09 (2,610 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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More speckles Pic of the actual powder, just smelt it again, it is definitely Bold of old.
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| Post# 892080 , Reply# 38 8/1/2016 at 17:42 (2,610 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Yeah it seems like they created the Spring ones for the April Fresh. I love looking at Walmart for laundry stuff, so much to choose from! Would really love to try out the Tide/Downy/Bounce 'Sweet Dreams' and also the Unstopables Fabric Conditioner, which is paired with the scent beads. :) | ||
| Post# 892091 , Reply# 42 8/1/2016 at 18:18 (2,610 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Thank you for those! That looks really good! Is it expensive? I've ordered from US amazon a few times but there are very few international shipping sellers. It would be brilliant if that was affordable though. :)) | ||
| Post# 892198 , Reply# 44 8/2/2016 at 10:01 (2,609 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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That's very interesting to know, thank you! :)) Will have to give it a try sometime. | ||
| Post# 892228 , Reply# 45 8/2/2016 at 14:21 (2,609 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Currently in the American Shopper basket, I have a bottle of Downy Infusions Sweet Dreams and a bottle of April Fresh and it comes to £33.95 in total. Cheaper than Target offering UK delivery. | ||
| Post# 892254 , Reply# 49 8/2/2016 at 16:28 (2,609 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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That's what I worry about, plus normally with the amount of conditioners now you'd get a high :)) I wasn't sure on Gold Orchid, to me it smelt a lot like body lotion with bronzer in it. I did like the Diamond and Lotus, even though they changed the scent when they reintroduced it around last October. | ||
| Post# 892263 , Reply# 51 8/2/2016 at 17:05 (2,609 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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I wonder if Gold Orchid has changed? That's it really. They discontinued the Diamond and Lotus when they went to Super Concentrate, I loved the smell of it. They brought it back last year but it didn't smell the same, the newer one smelt like Head & Shoulders Apple shampoo more than anything and it was okay, but not like the older one. | ||
| Post# 892634 , Reply# 52 8/5/2016 at 13:01 (2,606 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Bought some Bold, omg it really does smell like the older ones! I haven't stopped sniffing the box since I got it. Also picked up the new Lenor Febreze, it's like as if you've just melted some Unstoppables in water it smells exactly the same! | ||
| Post# 893364 , Reply# 54 8/10/2016 at 15:18 (2,601 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Tell you... What though, the softener has been very much improved - ran a load of towels (and usually they are very unforgiving of a 2in1). They are actually quite soft. So whilst the scent has definitely been toned down (to my nose), the softener has vastly improved. | ||
| Post# 893885 , Reply# 63 8/14/2016 at 11:37 (2,597 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom) | ||
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I'm sure I've seen the vivid colours stuff in Sainsbury's too, and I THINK Ocado are stocking it as well (Ocado fetish lol) | ||
| Post# 893887 , Reply# 65 8/14/2016 at 11:44 (2,597 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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According.. To MySupermarket, Surf Perfect Black is £3 at Sainsbury's. | ||
| Post# 893909 , Reply# 67 8/14/2016 at 16:32 (2,597 days old) by Zanussi_lover (Nottingham, UK) | ||
P&G Detergent Scent Shakeup 
I saw earlier in the thread that Fairy Non Bio has changed. I hope they haven't changed the perfume of Fairy Non Bio Powder, as that has a lovely delicate smell and really its the only powder that makes my clothes feel clean, soft and not itchy against my skin with a fresh subtle perfume, and without adding any conditioner to the wash.
I've seen on the Fairy non bio Facebook page that the Fairy gel has changed the perfume, as it says New Scent on the bottle. I've yet to smell this before I buy it. I found Fairy Gel has a very strong musky unpleasant aftershave smell and if they have made the scent more subtle then I will purchase it as a colour detergent. I bought some new Blue Bold Lotus Flower and Water Lily powder and Liquid and I agree both have lovely scents, much better than the sickly sweet melon afterkick that was in the previous version, this has a clean ocean fresh spa minerals scent which does remind me slightly of Bold Aqua of the early 2000's, but unfortunately, it gave me a red rash on my neck so shall be donating it to my mum and dad for use on their washing. I have yet to sniff the updated lavender one. I tried a box of Ariel powder too, this has quite a pleasant toned down mild scent though its nothing really like Ariel Essential, or the Grassy scented Ariel we had until 2005. I stopped using Ariel after 2005, as they turned the perfume into a piney citrusy strong perfume and smelt very strong and unpleasant until last year. But the scent doesn't last on clothes, which I wish it would do. Ariel Alpine (Circa 1998-1999) was gorgeous, my mums friend used to use Ariel Alpine Powder and i wanted her to wash all my clothes in it. I'm not a fan of any Fabric Softeners apart from Fairy Almond Oils and Ecover (Yellow Cap) Sun Fragrance, the new Lenors again smell very sickly and chemical and aren't really to my personal taste, but each to their own. | ||
| Post# 893911 , Reply# 69 8/14/2016 at 16:40 (2,597 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Fairy Zanussi_lover, I haven't smelt the new liquids or pods, but the Powder scent has definitely changed to my nose. I actually could swear it is Daz's previous scent (the one before what Daz has just changed to now). | ||
| Post# 893917 , Reply# 71 8/14/2016 at 17:20 (2,597 days old) by Zanussi_lover (Nottingham, UK) | ||
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P&G Detergent Scent Shakeup
I saw earlier in the thread that Fairy Non Bio has changed. I hope they haven't changed the perfume of Fairy Non Bio Powder, as that has a lovely delicate smell and really its the only powder that makes my clothes feel clean, soft and not itchy against my skin with a fresh subtle perfume, and without adding any conditioner to the wash.
I've seen on the Fairy non bio Facebook page that the Fairy gel has changed the perfume, as it says New Scent on the bottle. I've yet to smell this before I buy it. I found Fairy Gel has a very strong musky unpleasant aftershave smell and if they have made the scent more subtle then I will purchase it as a colour detergent. I bought some new Blue Bold Lotus Flower and Water Lily powder and Liquid and I agree both have lovely scents, much better than the sickly sweet melon afterkick that was in the previous version, this has a clean ocean fresh spa minerals scent which does remind me slightly of Bold Aqua of the early 2000's, but unfortunately, it gave me a red rash on my neck so shall be donating it to my mum and dad for use on their washing. I have yet to sniff the updated lavender one. I tried a box of Ariel powder too, this has quite a pleasant toned down mild scent though its nothing really like Ariel Essential, or the Grassy scented Ariel we had until 2005. I stopped using Ariel after 2005, as they turned the perfume into a piney citrusy strong perfume and smelt very strong and unpleasant until last year. But the scent doesn't last on clothes, which I wish it would do. Ariel Alpine (Circa 1998-1999) was gorgeous, my mums friend used to use Ariel Alpine Powder and i wanted her to wash all my clothes in it. I'm not a fan of any Fabric Softeners apart from Fairy Almond Oils and Ecover (Yellow Cap) Sun Fragrance, the new Lenors again smell very sickly and chemical and aren't really to my personal taste, but each to their own. | ||
| Post# 894046 , Reply# 74 8/15/2016 at 15:54 (2,596 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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That's true, it really does boil down to how you actually wash your clothes, and apparently OBA's are both not required in laundry products, and they can also cause harm to the body according to some websites. | ||
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Post# 894216 , Reply# 75 8/16/2016 at 18:55 (2,595 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Laundry/housekeeping manuals
Were advising women (and anyone else doing laundry) going back to the Victorian era, if not before, that bluing was not needed if the wash was done properly. The main use of bluing was to cover up the yellowing that came naturally to textiles made from cotton or linen. Secondary use was to cover up bad laundry habits and or slovenly housekeeping. That is the yellowing caused by wearing/using thing longer than one should before going to the wash, and or not doing that process properly. The yellowing of shirts underarms, pillow slips and bed sheets, that sort of thing.
The whole "Persil washes whiter" originally came about because that soap contained oxygen bleach. Combined with hot or boiling water you could get some really bright wash. By the 1950's or so post war housewives were being "advised" by adverts and whatever to step up their game. In theory mod cons and new products made housekeeping easier than it had been for previous generations. However instead of relishing in this fact, the war on dirt was raised up a peg or two. It now was not just enough to get one's wash clean and "white", but "whiter than white". Happily chemists came out with OBAs; fluorescent dyes that make one's wash glowing (literally) white. This being said OBAs cannot nor will not cure poor laundry habits. Also the same thing about bluing applies; wash that is done properly really does not need fabric whitening agents (OBAs). The only niggle with this comes in that much cotton and even linen cloth is treated with OBAs when made. These dyes are not very long lasting which is one reason why you find them in laundry products; to replace what is taken away by laundering. If you don't use an OBA containing product after a period of time it *may* seem as if things are dingy, even if properly clean. This is due to missing the reflective properties of the fluorescent dyes. To remedy this if one wishes just wash in a detergent or use a fabric softener with OBAs. As for skin have never heard of OBAs causing health risks per se; if they could penetrate the skin to that degree the things would be classified as a drug. The main gripe with OBAs from some is that they "attach" or whatever to skin. This may be true but is also rubbish. We all shed cells as that organ self renews; whatever residue from OBAs would soon enough be sloughed or whatever off. | ||
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Post# 894280 , Reply# 76 8/17/2016 at 04:42 (2,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Well, there have been serious concerns about OBA`s health effects.
Said it a hundred times before. Biggest concern I believe is the OBAs might revert back into something like diethylstilbestrol, a terrible endocrine disruptor. To stay more on topic it`s good to hear P&G has changed a lot of their scents recently. I found the German equivalent to Bold waterlily and lotusflower smelled exactly like "urine cake with a touch of hubba bubba chewing gum". Actually not unpleasant but way to strong. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
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Post# 894281 , Reply# 77 8/17/2016 at 04:48 (2,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Further read on diethylstilbestrol, which is not exactly the same chemical as used in OBAs but it`s still somehow related to the stilbenes found in detergents.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
| Post# 894285 , Reply# 78 8/17/2016 at 06:06 (2,594 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
RE: detergent scents, I recently found French Skip in one of the various pound/discount stores and bought a few boxes. Skip is Unilever's leading brand in France. Despite the blue box, this is biological and it smells NOTHING like our Persil Bio. It's got this lovely retro soapy scent too it. I've not tried it yet, but I'll be putting it through it's pases at the weekend. I really do miss the days when washing powder just smelt like washing powder.
I always seem to view detergents in levels: Premium level: Persil & Ariel Sub-premium level: Daz. Radion used to be here too once upon a time Lower level: Bold & Surf (though I'd rather use Surf over Bold anyday!) Eco detergents: Method, Ecover, BioD etc Sensitive: Fairy, Simply, Surcare Store brands sit in various levels depending on performance. My detergent of choice is always Persil Bio powder. I kind of view it as the original detergent and for some reason associate it very strongly with good housekeeping/laundry. Crazy I know, but Persil has never let me down. Bold would be my last choice of detergent. I've always found Bold to give very poor results with too much focus on scent than cleaning. I try to avoid heavilly scented detergents anyway due to the nature of the chemcial scent boosters used, many of which are listed on the EU banned and regulated substances legislation. | ||
| Post# 894286 , Reply# 79 8/17/2016 at 06:07 (2,594 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Skip
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| Post# 894349 , Reply# 81 8/17/2016 at 13:26 (2,594 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 894357 , Reply# 82 8/17/2016 at 14:27 (2,594 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Yep. Even today. The Persil Box has the "splodge" marking, but there is also kids on a bike on bio, and a dad and baby on the non bio. Ariel just has the "atom" logo and the word ARIEL lol | ||
| Post# 894587 , Reply# 85 8/18/2016 at 16:49 (2,593 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom) | ||
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I just realised, I said Summer Breeze, I meant I bought spring awakening lol | ||
| Post# 894705 , Reply# 87 8/19/2016 at 13:17 (2,592 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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ad advert CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK | ||
| Post# 895081 , Reply# 94 8/22/2016 at 14:39 (2,589 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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How did you get a voucher? :)) And those new scents sounds interesting, will have to sniff them! I vary with different sized packs, do like to buy small boxes of powder every so often but normally go for 40 wash sizes as sometimes the smaller packs aren't big enough for my mind. | ||
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Post# 895122 , Reply# 98 8/22/2016 at 18:52 (2,589 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Here's the new design for the Lenor detergent bags P&G just launched here. The liquid detergent looks similar now.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK | ||
| Post# 895214 , Reply# 100 8/23/2016 at 07:04 (2,588 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Yeah Definitely worth sending them a message - ask them about NB too, as the more people who ask for something, the more likely they will bring it back :) | ||
| Post# 895226 , Reply# 101 8/23/2016 at 08:10 (2,588 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Yeah okay will do :)) Oh BTW, what did Natural Balance smell like? It sounds rather nice. | ||
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Post# 895282 , Reply# 102 8/23/2016 at 12:29 (2,588 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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The Lenor detergents are average performers. I did check the formula of the Summer Rain & White Lily universal powder and it comes with four enzymes, oxi bleach and bleach booster. Should get most normally soiled laundry perfectly clean. As always, the liquid leaves more scent on the clothes than the powder.
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Post# 895354 , Reply# 107 8/23/2016 at 17:57 (2,588 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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I did compare Bold 2in1 Crystal Rain and White Lily to Lenor Summer Rain and White Lily and, indeed, Bold has Betonite in it to soften the fibers while Lenor does not. Lenor, on the other hand, has four enzymes versus one in Bold.
I'd probably rather group German Dash and UK Bold (and US Gain) together. www.info-pg.com/... | ||
| Post# 895361 , Reply# 108 8/23/2016 at 18:26 (2,588 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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That's interesting. Do they smell the same at all? May have to get some of the Lenor detergent as it looks really good. | ||
| Post# 895483 , Reply# 111 8/24/2016 at 09:29 (2,587 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom) | ||
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I can always remember my nan and mum trying the Fabreeze or Alpine freshness one out one evening when I came home from nursery, I can remember walking into my nans kitchen and smelling the washing she had drying on the radiator and seeing the carton on top of her Zanussi washer :) | ||
| Post# 895543 , Reply# 114 8/24/2016 at 14:56 (2,587 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Bold And going to sound like an advert now, but on 2 particular "brights" loads, the clothes really did look brighter and cleaner - although my laundry is always perfect. | ||
| Post# 895572 , Reply# 115 8/24/2016 at 18:12 (2,587 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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That's really interesting about the Bold, I haven't had the chance to try it out yet but it definitely has improved by the sounds. | ||
| Post# 895616 , Reply# 116 8/25/2016 at 06:37 (2,586 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom) | ||
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OMG!!! Kwiksave! I'm glad someone other than me can remember it lol I used to regularly use the Fabreeze one when I was younger along side Ariel with fabreeze liquitabs, I loved the smell lol | ||
| Post# 895638 , Reply# 119 8/25/2016 at 09:58 (2,586 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Thanks for that... Will keep an eye out for Pearly Peony :) | ||
| Post# 895659 , Reply# 120 8/25/2016 at 11:33 (2,586 days old) by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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KwikSave | ||
| Post# 896731 , Reply# 124 9/1/2016 at 10:10 (2,579 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Well.. Got one in now, it seems low sudsing, like the rest of the new line of Bold. However, the scent seems a tad stronger than I remember Bold Pearls being; it's on a 60o wash now, and can smell the scent as soon as walk into the kitchen. | ||
| Post# 896740 , Reply# 125 9/1/2016 at 12:48 (2,579 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Tesco near me has had them a while but they don't jump out at me at all. The new Lenor Ocean Escape is lovely though, smells really nice and milder than the previous version. | ||
| Post# 897652 , Reply# 129 9/7/2016 at 15:18 (2,573 days old) by Michael (London /England) | ||
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Comfort blue sky Sorry to be a bore... the only conditioner I ever use is comfort blue sky...all the others are too overpowering for me personally, and in case of interest...Half price in Waitrose...£1.50 for 2 litres | ||
| Post# 897659 , Reply# 130 9/7/2016 at 15:47 (2,573 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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You're not a bore, you just stick to what you know. :)) | ||
| Post# 897834 , Reply# 131 9/8/2016 at 23:08 (2,571 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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I did A new thread on it, but just in case you didn't see it. :O :/ CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK | ||
| Post# 900404 , Reply# 132 9/25/2016 at 06:45 (2,555 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Tried Bold powder today, the blue one and it really is good! The bedding has come out of the machine clean, stain free, white, soft and smelling really nice! The scent isn't overpowering either, just a light pleasant smell, even though I do have a cold. :)) | ||
| Post# 900420 , Reply# 133 9/25/2016 at 09:46 (2,555 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens) | ||
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Did you use and fabric conditioner,or the Bold did itself all the softening job? | ||
| Post# 900426 , Reply# 134 9/25/2016 at 11:17 (2,555 days old) by hoover8pulse (Wales/Shropshire Border) | ||
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Hello, no I didn't use fabric conditioner as this Bold is the newer packaging one so I wanted to see how goo it is, and it has definitely improved from the last time I used it. The stuff I washed is indeed soft, it seems Bold has improved in that aspect. | ||
| Post# 902437 , Reply# 135 10/10/2016 at 01:58 (2,540 days old) by Hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
Nick
Are you the guy on Youtube with the Hotpoint 18580 and the Zanussi FJDR1466W that you no longer own? His name is Nick Wilson and is called nickwilsonUK. Which Hotpoint Ultima in 2004 did you own as I was wondering for months and did it do powerstream and have the Powerstream feature or the induction Super Silent motor and was it a Super Silent Ultima and could you describe it to me. I've been guessing and I'm probably guessing which model number it was?
Janak | ||
| Post# 902595 , Reply# 137 10/10/2016 at 23:50 (2,539 days old) by Hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
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Model
Nick I'm guessing it is a WMM75 or a WF865. Which one out of those 2 was it? Was it the one on the left or the one on the right?
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| Post# 902597 , Reply# 138 10/10/2016 at 23:52 (2,539 days old) by Hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
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Forgot to mention | ||
| Post# 902599 , Reply# 139 10/11/2016 at 00:00 (2,539 days old) by Hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
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YouTube vids | ||
| Post# 902734 , Reply# 141 10/12/2016 at 02:51 (2,538 days old) by Hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
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Your welcome
Hey Nick, the powerstream feature wasn't a jetsystem. Powerstream is where it distributes anti clockwise a couple of times in the Cottons main wash which pulls water through the clothes to provide decent performance that the Hotpoint WMA series models do. It spins clockwise. And on the final spin on the Cottons 40*C and 95*C with and without time saver it spends 10 seconds on full speed and the same on Cottons 60*C with time saver. But however the Cottons 60 without the time saver does 1 minute on full speed. They use DC motors. They are my favourite machines and I'll tell you all about my washing machine collection. And how is the rinsing on the Siemens? Does it do seal level high rinses?
Janak | ||
| Post# 903286 , Reply# 142 10/16/2016 at 10:47 (2,534 days old) by hotpointwfwt02 (Manchester) | ||
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Forgot to mention | ||
| Post# 921552 , Reply# 143 2/15/2017 at 14:55 (2,412 days old) by aegokocarat (United Kingdom) | ||
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Sorry for resurrecting a thread! I've recently purchased a bottle of the Lenor Parfumelle Pearly peony fabric softener, £3.50 for a large 72 wash pack! Anyway! The scent is very subtle and "luxurious" so to speak, it has a slight vanilla undertone to it, its gorgeous! Tom | ||
| Post# 928891 , Reply# 144 3/25/2017 at 18:09 (2,374 days old) by Indesit-lover (Wigan) | ||
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Fairy non bio Today I got a box of fairy non bio and it's still same powdery type stuff with the same original scent I saw a few of you was worrying in case it changed so just letting you guys no it asnt and not to worry | ||
| Post# 953875 , Reply# 145 8/21/2017 at 15:06 (2,225 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK) | ||
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Just two days ago we decided to demolish and rebuild our garage. For this reason I had to sort out my stash of detergents and FS. All the old (gone off) stuff was chucked and a bunch of duplicates donated. However, was still left with this! Oops, I did it again...........
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| Post# 953886 , Reply# 146 8/21/2017 at 16:17 (2,225 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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