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Thread Number: 68133
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Converting BD KM self clean to bed of nails filter |
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Post# 908542 , Reply# 1 11/26/2016 at 08:32 (2,707 days old) by Yogitunes  (New Jersey) |
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Post# 908558 , Reply# 2 11/26/2016 at 12:08 (2,707 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Yes as Martin has said, it can be done. The particulars as to the best way to do it would depend on the way the machine is configured now.
Over the years there have been various drain configurations, and four different pumps used in these, so it would be best and simplest to know what the machine is equipped with currently in order to advise what parts to obtain. The late model BDs would be the easiest to covert, as it would require the fewest changeover parts. Can you give us some pictures or data about the machine you are looking at currently? Gordon | ||
| Post# 908627 , Reply# 4 11/26/2016 at 21:51 (2,707 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
Nice machine! Have been looking to acquire the 8 or 10 program version of this era machine for quite some time now, like the one in the video linked below. Really like the brown control panel.
Even though it isn't on this control panel, I would be very surprised if this wasn't a dual action agitator... I don't remember seeing non dual-action Canadian machines in this style. Although you are right about it usually being advertised on the control panel, like the one in the video is. CLICK HERE TO GO TO barcoboy's LINK | ||
| Post# 908669 , Reply# 5 11/27/2016 at 08:13 (2,706 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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My mothers machine had the roto-swirl. I've seen a few of these brown panel machines on Kijiji, but it's rare to see a non dual action one. I too like this style. The one in the video you linked seems to be the most TOL I've ever seen! | ||
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Post# 908687 , Reply# 6 11/27/2016 at 09:52 (2,706 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ) |
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I live in a 99 year old house with a 99 year old drain pipe. A self cleaning filter is not considered "best of the best" under these circumstances. | ||
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Post# 908695 , Reply# 7 11/27/2016 at 10:30 (2,706 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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| Post# 908705 , Reply# 8 11/27/2016 at 11:26 (2,706 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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Yup! I believe these were made in the Inglis plant in Mississauga. I don't believe these came any more loaded that what Todd showed us in the link, extra rinse option and dual action. Gordon, yup, I did buy them! I will do a video tour when I get them set up. | ||
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Post# 908711 , Reply# 9 11/27/2016 at 12:30 (2,706 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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oddly enough, you could just that that self clean filter out, and by-pass it....with proper washing techniques, you wont know its gone...
the best part of the manual filter, is waterfall drama.... if you want to talk about a confusion of hose routing, think about this machine, where it not only had the self clean, but was also demonstrating that it was working.... | ||
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Post# 908713 , Reply# 10 11/27/2016 at 12:31 (2,706 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 908715 , Reply# 11 11/27/2016 at 12:33 (2,706 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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| Post# 908736 , Reply# 12 11/27/2016 at 15:29 (2,706 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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This is the filter I remember being in these machines, like the one in this video. It's the white bed of nails with the release tab in the middle. CLICK HERE TO GO TO potatochips's LINK | ||
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Post# 908745 , Reply# 13 11/27/2016 at 17:00 (2,706 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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what you posted is nothing more than a string catcher....
that's nothing more than a pump change out to add that one.....you need a 3-port pump just to add this type....there are like 2 types, making sure to get the one that allows the plumbing for the self clean to work....you can still remove the self clean filter, and use a fitting to by-pass it... now THIS is a 'bed of nails' filter that will fill up with lint.... | ||
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Post# 908746 , Reply# 14 11/27/2016 at 17:03 (2,706 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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depending on your exact belt drive machine.....
does it have the true self clean filter and plumbing?......or the filter comb mounted under the inner tub?..... if its already the comb style, chances are there will be a three port pump already installed.....all you would need is a hose and splash shield with the filter installed... | ||
| Post# 908761 , Reply# 15 11/27/2016 at 18:45 (2,706 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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I do think that the model in the video I posted was the last Canadian TOL belt drive before they switched over to direct drive. I always remember seeing it in the Sears catalog and wishing we had one! I did know someone who had the 8 program version. The 8 programs were: Auto Pre-wash, Cotton/Sturdy, Rinse, Pre-Soak, Extra Wash, Knits/Delicates, Spin Only, and Permanent Press. The 10 cycle model split up Cotton/Sturdy and Permanent Press into Whites/Colored, and also had the automatic temperature control setting as part of the wash/rinse temperature dial, which I believe the machine in the video has, but I don't think the 8 program model had. The only extra option that this washer could have had was suds saving.
The only thing I didn't like about these newer belt drives was the "new style" cool down sequence in the Permanent Press cycle... I prefer the "old style" version with the slow speed drains and simultaneous agitate and fill. Glad that you were able to pick them up! | ||
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Post# 908819 , Reply# 17 11/28/2016 at 07:52 (2,705 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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| Post# 908820 , Reply# 18 11/28/2016 at 07:53 (2,705 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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| Post# 909138 , Reply# 19 11/30/2016 at 15:58 (2,703 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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"Graph paper" ha! I liked them when they were on the DD machines. It looked like someone actually made an attempt at style. 
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Post# 909171 , Reply# 20 11/30/2016 at 21:33 (2,703 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Lots to say...
The comments made about adding the "string catcher" lint filter and the three port pump are essentially correct. That filter, which was molded into the tub ring housing, is usually powered via a three port pump, unless the machine is a suds saver, which required the old four port. Adding these to a basic machine will immediately make it a waterfall filter model.
Some clarifications need to be made, as well as some things to consider when sourcing parts for the Canadian Kenmore. Here goes: First, I would not call the filter shown a 'string catcher". It catches it's fair share of lint and is otherwise more effective than that --- the machine in the video is mine and I have used it 400-500 loads. There was however a factory improvement to the filter cartridge itself in the form of a replacement part that has many more "nails" in the bed, lol. It is more effective, but I would swear that nothing seems to catch the lint that our '61 Kenmore did. I am beginning to wonder if today's fabrics simply don't lint as much as fabrics did in the 70s. My KMs with self cleaning filters don't seem to catch what my Mom's '74 used to belch up either. I am still laughing at my video...really sucky camera and bad light don't go together well. The washer in the other video showing the KM with the gold filter is also mine. That bed of nails filter is not hugely more effective overall than the other. The filter element itself is so full of nails that it will fill up in a couple loads to the point that water flow is effected. When you empty it though, there isn't that much stuff in the sink. The cartridge is more nails than storage space, and can be annoying to clean. Later replacement filter cartridges for these had many fewer nails and wider passages to prevent clogs. I think that may be why the newer cartridge in my other machine looks like a string catcher, because I suspect that Sears took some flack for those early cartridges. The gold filter assembly (or a white one) cannot be added to an SC machine unless you change the machine top or cut out a hole for the filter assembly to lock into. About the 3-port pump --- it cannot be used in conjunction with any self cleaning filter except the passive under basket comb filter, that is if you want the SC filter to do its job. All the SC filters (except the under basket comb) require filtration with water flowing through tub drains or ports of various designs and locations. The 3-port pump, and there is only one design of those, can not recirculate water like the older two and four port pumps do. In those, water flows from left to right when the pump control lever is in one position, and from right to left in the other position. That same lever in the the three port allows water to flow left to right for pump out, but water does not flow at all in the other, as water flow is totally cut off. This is the direction we need to power a SC filter. In fact, when a 3-port machine is agitating, the pump design totally cuts off water flow out of the machine. This why that pump cannot be used in suds models. In most BDs, water will drain out or siphon out immediately if the drain hose is lowered to the floor, but not if a three port pump is used (during agitation that is). About parts acquisition for the Canadian Kenmore...when the machine is in hand and we can look at its internal plumbing and its capacity, we can determine what sort of filter to add. I am not certain that Canadian made models followed the US machines in physical changes during the 1980s, or to what extent. In the US, the late 70s models used different diameter tubs between the standard and large capacity models, which therefore use different tub rings. We would have to take this into account if we were going to covert a US model to have a manual filter. The revision made in summer 1981 here gave both capacity models the same outer tub diameter, and thus the same tub ring, but this tub ring is not compatible with the older ones due to a new rim on the top of the tub edge, and a completely different seal. So, in other words, we really need to see the machine in detail to know what parts will fit. About pumps: in the BDs, there was the old two port which offers two directional flow. It cannot power a manual filter, and was used in non-filter and SC filter models. A four port pump, which was a two port with two more ports on the bottom, power the earlier manual filter models, and SC filter models with detergent dispensers. The two additional ports provide water to the filter assembly or the dispenser. The much newer three port was designed to power manual filter models, and eliminates all the extra tub outlets and hoses that the four port needs, and helped cut manufacturing cost on those models. In 1981, the three port was modified Into a new two port by eliminating the small third port. This was done when the tub mounted disc filter was designed. When that filter releases its lint, the lint flows directly through the pump, which does not happen in any of the other SC models (they always flush down line from the pump). Lint can clog the old two port pump, so rather than use this pump with the basket filter, WP modified the three port into the new two port which is not prone to clogging. Replacements for the new two port have long been three ports, which come with a port cap and clamp to shut off the third port. Hopefully this isn't info overload... Gordon | ||
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Post# 909270 , Reply# 21 12/1/2016 at 17:01 (2,702 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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| Post# 909408 , Reply# 22 12/2/2016 at 20:35 (2,701 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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Thanks Gordon! I will pick the machines up tomorrow and let everyone know how they faired out. | ||
| Post# 909515 , Reply# 23 12/3/2016 at 20:44 (2,700 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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Bad news, two port pump. | ||
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Post# 909621 , Reply# 24 12/4/2016 at 16:09 (2,699 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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two port pump with which filter?
it would take some doing......but even if it has a true self clean filter... you could switch the pump to a four port, add in a "J" hose, and a solenoid valve connected to the agitation plunger....plumbed right up to a manual filter.... I am sure Gordon would have a few pics from underneath of a TOL Kenmore with a detergent dispenser, that set up, would work for a manual filter....it would keep both filters in tack... | ||
| Post# 909786 , Reply# 25 12/5/2016 at 18:25 (2,698 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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It's this style of filter. To make matters worse and more pressing, there is a leak between the base and the tub... 
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Post# 909789 , Reply# 26 12/5/2016 at 18:33 (2,698 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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| Post# 909809 , Reply# 27 12/5/2016 at 22:05 (2,698 days old) by potatochips ( ) | ||
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Looks as if a donor machine may be the only option. The leak isnt too bad, but, I'd rather not have it get worse. | ||
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