Thread Number: 72483  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
How much effort to maintain new dishwashers vs old?
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Post# 957777   9/16/2017 at 15:26 (374 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)        

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I have an inkling of an idea as to what advice I'll get on this issue, but I thought I'd ask!
Much frustration today as my vintage Kitchenaid has over filled now 3 times, and other ailments have assaulted it. The idea was to get a vintage dishwasher for ease of repair when things DO go wrong, but I'm beginning to rethink that idea.

Let's take "energy efficiency" off the table here, and let's talk maintenance. I don't know which models are the beesknees right now, but how often are you guys repairing your modern machines? And for those of you with newer machines that are real troopers, how much did you pay initially? I simply can't fathom paying a grand for a dishwasher, and I can barely swallow my gulps thinking about half a grand.

Also, are there any new machines with mechanical controls?

(For those wondering about the vintage machine, there's another thread I've tasked my husband with reviving in case our issues are fixable. He was the op some months ago)

Post# 957779 , Reply# 1   9/16/2017 at 16:10 (373 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Buy a 10 year old kitchen aid dishwasher, pretty much once every 5 year repair. New dishwashers will go 5-10 years but are terrible performers

Post# 957783 , Reply# 2   9/16/2017 at 16:43 (373 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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well, you can't exactly name that in an instant.....variable factors.....

Kitchen Aids do very well, vintage as well as modern ones......I got a TallTub KA, never used for 75.00 in stainless.....and found an exact spare on CL for Free....

Whirlpool/PowerClean and Kenmore/Ultrawash are great performers as well.....I bought this convertible one brand new in 1988, only needing a wash module in all this time, minimal cost with the help of JohnL.......and again, found an exact spare on CL for 25.00.....

shop around like I did, you never know what will turn up.....but if you can find a unit inexpensive for now, and then keep an eye out for a spare/parts should be good to go for a long time....


Post# 957786 , Reply# 3   9/16/2017 at 17:04 (373 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)        

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You mean like these?

What about the control panels? How likely will they die on me?

Post# 957787 , Reply# 4   9/16/2017 at 17:28 (373 days old) by jerrod6 (United States of America)        

I have a Miele DW which is 11 years old.  It's had one repair which was done early on when it was under warranty.  The service tech said it was a part that almost never goes bad, so it was probably a fluke error. 


It has a touch screen display, no buttons, that lets you select a cycle and then shows you the cycle step the machine is in.  No problems with that either.  It still cleans anything I throw at it. 


There are probably other machines that have worked as long without problems.

Post# 957788 , Reply# 5   9/16/2017 at 17:36 (373 days old) by dubguy (Dublin)        

I have a Siemens (part of BSH - Bosch Siemens Hausgerate) dishwasher, approx 6/7 years old. Flawless service so far and spotlessly clean dishes every time. Very efficient also

Post# 957791 , Reply# 6   9/16/2017 at 17:56 (373 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

New appliances are "NEW" and old one's are "OLD". Why would ANYONE want an appliance that is over 10 years old as a daily driver is INSANE!

Post# 957798 , Reply# 7   9/16/2017 at 18:47 (373 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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My dishwasher is 14 years. My refrigerator in the kitchen is 13 years, garage is 19 years 10 months. Washing machines are 13 and 16 years. Dryer is 13 years.

Post# 957800 , Reply# 8   9/16/2017 at 18:59 (373 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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Got you beat Glenn. My Whirlpool gas stove, dishwasher and refrigerator are going on 23 years old and still work perfect. As does my 1984 Maytag washer and dryer. If one of them died, I will go back to the same appliance dealer and buy new. Not because I want to but am not messing with fixing little crap any more.

Post# 957802 , Reply# 9   9/16/2017 at 19:08 (373 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Among others ... I have a 906 pair in the garage. Dryer is OK, washer needs bearing job. Also have an A512 (April '84) and LDE482 (May '84) that would fire right up if put into service.

Post# 957833 , Reply# 10   9/16/2017 at 22:33 (373 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
GE/Hotpoint still make a mechanical timer

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To be honest, and since I put in about ten BOL a year and replace/repair them, you're going to get about five years to seven out of modern dishwashers.
The vintage are vastly more reliable.
The BOL Amanas wash quite well and are very reliable compared to the higher end stuff - Whirlpool has learned how to make decent dishwashers.

On a side note, except for the microwave, nothing in our kitchen was built after 1984 and the stove and refrigerator are in their fifties.

Post# 957858 , Reply# 11   9/17/2017 at 10:44 (373 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)        

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Panthera, 5 to 7 years for BOL dishwashers right? I can't believe every tier and brand has that lifespan. What about folks like Bosch and Miele?

Side note, the rusty clamp on my hose snapped off, which is why it had problems... THIS time. Whew. But damn it if I don't love having those dishes clean in a snappy 30 minutes. It is heaven to have some Hobart in your kitchen when u cook as much as I do.

Post# 957862 , Reply# 12   9/17/2017 at 11:34 (373 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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As far as my experience goes, I've not really seen a big difference in maintenance and reliability among new or old appliances, from my sampling of family and friends.
All their dishwashers, and my family's, have gone on average, about 12 years, with maybe 1-2 small or moderate repairs.

Dishwashers from the early 2000s REALLY took a bad hit when the phosphate formulations went away.
That's when machines got more energy conscious, and the smaller passages and pumps, extra filters, etc, could not handle the build-up when the phosphates went away.
That's when WP chassis machines, like the Point Voyager, really took a beating and started clogging, and having poor results in the top racks.
My parents' older GE TT with the mesh screen on the floor, had constant screen clogging issues. So those took periodic cleaning. WP machines had their chopper screens clogging with gunk.

But once the formulations finally got better, those problems seem all but gone now. And good performance is back on those older machines.

The new NEW machines today are more manual filter-based.
GE machines require regular filter cup cleaning every 2-8 weeks, depending on your usage. I clean the cup out on my PDT720 1-2x a month.
WP's filter cup machines are far more easy to take care of, requiring filter cup cleaning only 1-2x a YEAR.
Same with Bosch I believe.

For Samsung, I've heard their regular maintenance is commonly low as well. However, my neighbors' Samsung dw had a drain pump die at 3yrs old, and the OEM part was NLA. So a repair man jerry rigged a Frigidaire drain pump on it for them.

Post# 957870 , Reply# 13   9/17/2017 at 13:06 (373 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Bosch or Miele

The current platform of BSH DW has been around for something like almost 10 years now. There have been issues, but most of the were related to the Zeolith drying technology which is not avaible on US machines. Some others were the few and far between issues with controller boards.
The biggest issue with that platform that I encountered on our 18" variant (which is shockingly simmilar to the 24" versions) was their tendency to smell. I traced that back to a verry small area around the edges of the mesh filter, but that only happens if loads sit unwashed for a few days and goes away after a cycle is run.
But if you can score a midrange model which has the fully stainless steal tank (avoid the models with plastic tank bottom like the plague, they have a glued seam that leaks quite often) for about 600$, you'll be happy for a decade, give or take, and that is a good value IMO.

Miele does build awesome DW. You really have to like and learn the racking, but you can cram these to the brim, especially with mixed loads.
Miele does offer 5-year service contracts by them selves for like 300$.
But that really is the one big issue with Miele: Cost.
A midrange DW (I'll go into detail why midrange soon) is 1200$ upwards, and depending on your location, service calls start at 200$.
I would avoid their lower level DW. These still use a single speed pump which on previous generations had a tendency to develop issues with their seals and bearings after 5-8 years. Their varible pressure pump (used in all G6xxx DW) comes straight from the prfessional side and I literally never heared that one of those failed. Never.

Post# 957879 , Reply# 14   9/17/2017 at 14:23 (373 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
Bosch 300 series installed new in October 2001

No service calls, ever. Upon delivery, the front panel had a dent, but Bosch sent a technician to swap it for a new front panel. Next month it will be sixteen years old.

This model has a bar handle and controls in the door edge, and thus cost about $100 more than an entry level 300 model with front controls. Only three cycles: Power Scrub Plus, Regular, and Quick Wash. Bosch at that time had two separate 300 series models, with a choice of Quick Wash or Rinse/Hold as the third cycle.

I thought I'd ordered the Rinse/Hold variant, but upon opening the crate learned I'd bought the Quick Wash model. I made my purchase a week after the models were introduced, and the store did not yet have a floor model, which led to the confusion, as it was basically ordered out of a sales brochure sent to the dealer. The store said they would replace it with the Rinse/Hold model, but I kept it and like Quick Wash for certain applications: light soil (say you have people over for dessert and coffee) and also for washing stuff other than dishes or glasses, like refrigerator bins and glass shelves, etc. They come out clean from the 30 minute Quick Wash and lower rinse temps are safer for plastics.

I was accustomed to such poor performance from my previous GE Potscrubber that I came to think of Rinse/Hold as vital and necessary to use on a daily basis until the machine was full and ready to run a full cycle. With the Bosch, stuff can be days old, not rinsed, and still it all comes out clean.

Modern DWs have quick cycles called "Party" "Quick Wash" or "Express Wash", but basically my 2001 Bosch does the same thing on Quick Wash.

Still cleans anything I toss at it, and does a great job.

Post# 958147 , Reply# 15   9/19/2017 at 13:50 (371 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Let's see

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My WP side x side fridge is 13 yrs old (2 small repairs)
WP range is 13 yo no repairs
Over the hood WP microwave is 13 yrs old no repairs and it gets used A LOT
Dishwasher is Maytag and 3.5 yrs old no repairs (knock on wood)
WP washer/dryer are 12.5 yrs old (no repairs on dryer) Duet had board replaced it's 2nd yr.
Water heater is 13 yrs old no repairs. I think it's A/O Smith or something like that

My Trane all electric heat pump is a different story - the first 5 yrs of living here, I felt like something went wrong every year....first it was a capacitor, then the coolant was leaking and that was repaired, then the compressor died (it was under warranty for parts but not labor. (all of this happened having preventative maintenance done twice yearly. As soon as I stopped preventative maintenance and decided just to keep the filters clean, nothing has gone wrong with it in years.

Post# 958153 , Reply# 16   9/19/2017 at 15:01 (371 days old) by brucelucenta ()        
Newer appliances

I guess it is a whole new ballgame with newer appliances. I probably foolishly bought all the appliances for my kitchen and laundry room at Sears and stuck with the Kenmore Elite brand, so the handles all match on them and everything looks uniform right now. I know that there are really several different manufacturers that make the appliances I have. The refrigerator is made by LG, as well as the washer and dryer. The dishwasher is made by Whirlpool, not sure who made the microwave and built in stove top. The oven is strangely enough, Frigidaire from what I could tell. So far I have had numerous problems with the refrigerator in the first 2 years, but the last service call I had seemed to take care of the issues I was having. I might point out that this is the second refrigerator I have had of theirs. The first one had an internal leak and they replaced it with a newer model, hopefully improved and I have had it for over 2 years now. The new one had issues with freezing up in back and stopped cooling twice in the first year, but now seems to be fixed after they replaced the circuit board computer. I just hope they will all last as long as possible and I am happy with them all, they do a very good job of what they do. Time will tell I guess.

Post# 958158 , Reply# 17   9/19/2017 at 15:25 (371 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Wrong about new dishwashers being poor performers. My latest Whirlpool made machine does a superb job at cleaning the dishes and as for a Kitchenaid dishwasher that is older, the absolute WORSE dishwasher I EVER owned was a Kitcheaid Superba from about 1980-81. I hated that dishwasher more than any machine I EVER had. It left food particles all over the tops of the dishes on the top rack and when using the heat boost, would shut off and heat the water for a while only to come back on long enough for the water to recirculate and cool down the sensor and shut off again. It took probably 4 hours to do a load of dishes, which at the time was ridiculous! So not EVERYONE thinks that Kitchenaid dishwashers are all that and a bag of chips! The reason I bought it was to replace a builders model GE and had always heard they were the best you could buy. Judging by the price of it, it certainly should have been! I have never been so disappointed in a new appliance before or since. I replaced it the following year with a Maytag RR TOL model which was the best dishwasher I had ever had up to that time.

Post# 958161 , Reply# 18   9/19/2017 at 15:51 (370 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

I'm not saying that ka is the best there ever was for eternity. I can't speak of an early 80's ka, I've never owned one. My ca. 1999 ka dw was the best performing dw I have ever had, and my new LG is trash.

I would say that any 10-20 year old dw will probably perform better than any new dishwasher out there. I happen to have had an excellent experience with ka, and will be replacing my pos lg soon.

As far as your old ka , I'd say there was some sort of installation error, like they threw away the insulation, or he dishwasher was exposed to an area were it lost a lot of heat. Possibly your inlet temps were too low to begin with.

Post# 958184 , Reply# 19   9/19/2017 at 17:49 (370 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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It really depends on what your definition of "perform" is.
There are countless amounts of evidence in this forum of people with modern machines made after 2015, that clean dishes extremely well.
They wash, they sanitize, they even dry.

They DO take longer to do it.
So if taking too much time; more than you like, is "not performing well." Well...your opinion is noted.
But if you're quantifiably saying that modern machines cannot wash dishes as well, to a fully clean state, as a machine from 10-20 years ago, you are mistaken.

Post# 958189 , Reply# 20   9/19/2017 at 18:17 (370 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Everybody has a different opinion. My opinion of a dirty dish is one that I scrape twice and load in to the dishwasher. My opinion of a clean plate is that it is spotless, no dry food debris, and dry.

In my kitchen aid I put in a dirty plate, and it came out clean. Further my dishwasher didn't smell like last nights salmon.

Under the same circumstances the LG did not clean. Time means nothing to me as I let my machine run at night before I go to bed.

I've been selling/ servicing dishwashers for over 15 years. I've seen and fixed more dishwashers than you can ever imagine. 10 years ago when a customer called about performance issues I most definitely found something wrong with the dishwasher. Now, when they don't clean well I have to re- educate the customer, I have to tell them they have to do a better job "pre rinsing".

Post# 958191 , Reply# 21   9/19/2017 at 18:24 (370 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Oh, for goodness sake.

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I regard a dishwasher which doesn't even last for 10 years as a piece of trash.

So, no - most modern dishwashers do not perform. They're junk.


Now, a higher-end Bosch or a Miele or a vintage GE Potscrubber with the orbital arm are worth it. The rest? Whatever, dude. If you don't mind pre-scrubbing and post-scrubbing and waiting for hour after hour for the thing to splash two drops of water around and then think about it, sure, go for it.


I install a lot of BOL Amana dishwashers. They clean very well and last about as long in rental kitchens as high-end GE. It's pointless to spend money on KA, it's nothing but a rebadged Whirlpool.


Post# 958194 , Reply# 22   9/19/2017 at 19:11 (370 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I have a new BOL Whirlpool dishwasher and I love it! I only use the 1 hour cycle, that really is 60 mins. and I add the heated dry for an additional 20 mins., or a total of 80 mins. per load. I run full, mixed loads evry 2 or 3 days and the only things I rinse first are the cereal/salad bowls and pots and pans. Other wise every thing goes in the way it left the table, sans the big chunks.

And the dishes come out spotless and dry, except for items that don't drain well, the same as any other dishwasher. I really can't see the point of these high end dishwashers, except the exterior style I guess.

Our last dishwasher was a MOL GE that only lasted just under 2 years before it was going to cost more to repair than replace. And it took almost 3 hours to complete a normal cycle with temp boost. The new Whirlpool gets plenty hot. I run the hot water at the sink until its hot before I press start and when the cycle is done those dishes very hot, the silverware can burn you. Oh, and it uses just over 7.87 gals of water for a 1 hour cycle, not that much extra. The Heavy cycle uses 7.4, and Normal 2.4 to 7.4, I don't think 2.4 gals would do a very good job.

Anyway, thats my experience with new dishwashers.

Post# 958198 , Reply# 23   9/19/2017 at 20:39 (370 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        

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That Whirlpool and the BOL Amana are the same inside - and, yes, they heat the water quite warm and the clean quite well.

Astonishingly so, actually.

I checked my records - I've installed 28 in the past 19 months. Not one has failed.

Post# 958202 , Reply# 24   9/19/2017 at 21:06 (370 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I know and they are great value for the money! No bells and whistles, not a lot to go wrong. Time will tell as to the longevity, but I have a feeling it will be a keeper for a while.

This post was last edited 09/19/2017 at 22:19
Post# 958204 , Reply# 25   9/19/2017 at 21:18 (370 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Do you have a model # for this Amana?

Post# 958205 , Reply# 26   9/19/2017 at 21:23 (370 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I don't know what the Amana model number is but the link below is for the Whirlpool that I have. I paid $279.00 on sale.


Post# 958206 , Reply# 27   9/19/2017 at 21:35 (370 days old) by pumpkina (California)        


What does BOL stand for?

DADOES, what brand of dishwasher do you own?

Lorainfurniture, what repairs have you done on your dishwasher?

Henene4, you wrote: "...score a midrange model which has the fully stainless steal tank..." Do you mean the walls and the floor that you see when you open the dishwasher?


Post# 958207 , Reply# 28   9/19/2017 at 21:50 (370 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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BOL= Bottom of the Line
MOL= Middle of the Line
TOL= Top of the Line


Post# 958208 , Reply# 29   9/19/2017 at 21:50 (370 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

I have the portable version of Eddie's Whirlpool dishwasher and will attest it cleans well and is a no-nonsense machine. I tried both the Normal and Heavy cycles, but the 1-hr. cycle rocks. I'd say its weak point on the 1-hr. cycle is drying, even when using heated dry. The portable version is as loud as a riot---which I HATE---since the kitchen in my apartment is open to the living room. Maybe the built-in is a bit quieter due to being surrounded by cabinets.

Honestly, if the sound level was 45 db or less, I'd recommend it as a great budget-line machine.

Aside: I'm still amazed there are two active Eugenes on this site. There are never two people named Eugene anywhere. Am I right, other Eugene?

Post# 958210 , Reply# 30   9/19/2017 at 21:52 (370 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

The lg has had no repair, but it's been in my house about one month. The kitchen aid I got a clogged drain hose once, and I replaced a wobbly (still worked fine) handle. Ultimately I got rid of it bc of the incoming matching black stainless appliances and the fact the ka racks were rusting pretty bad.

I bought the ka on Craigslist for $75, and used it in my home for at least 6 years.

Post# 958212 , Reply# 31   9/19/2017 at 21:56 (370 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Nope, wrong on all counts. I paid close to $1000 for that POS Kitchenaid dishwasher which included installation. I did so with the belief that it was the absolute BEST dishwasher known to mankind, since I had always heard from everyone they were the cadillac of dishwashers. The year was 1980, possibly 1981. It was right after they started putting the separate spray arm under the top rack, but did NOT have even the little spinner on the very top. Obviously this was a serious mistake since it left little particles all on top of the glasses which was what upset me the most. There was no way to correct it since they had left no place on the top of the machine to later add the water spinner either. It had all of it's insulation wrapped around it and was built much like a tank compared to the GE that it replaced. The Maytag that replaced it a year later was not nearly as heavily built as it was, but did an excellent job of cleaning and drying the dishes and was quicker. I now have a Whirlpool made dishwasher that is very much like a Kitchenaid of today. It does a good job of cleaning, not so good on drying since they quit forced air drying. I am quite satisfied with it, but will NEVER forget the unfortunate choice of a new dishwasher I chose back in 1980. I noticed that a year or two later they again added the top water spinner to the new machines which I am sure made their performance much better. Perhaps it was an off year, I don't know. Just that I felt cheated and that I had wasted a great deal of money and have never felt the same about Kitchenaid dishwashers since. Perhaps the same thing that happened to cadillac happened to them too. After all, Lexus is a FAR better car than cadillac ever thought about being.

Post# 958213 , Reply# 32   9/19/2017 at 22:00 (370 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Eugene, the model number was:

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Amana Model ADB1300AFW
It was replaced by
Amana Model ADB1400AGW

Which is pretty much the same.

Post# 958312 , Reply# 33   9/20/2017 at 13:34 (370 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I've had good luck with our Bosch dishwashers. My mom's one was purchased in 2006 and mine was made in 2010 - neither ever needed a repair (both are German-made). Because they heater is 230V, the cold fill gets up to temp quickly. A 158F Pots & Pans double-wash, triple-rinse and dry cycle takes 90 minutes.

Am currently using a countertop Bosch model that has been in and out of storage since I got it in 1993. No repairs on that one either.

Post# 966250 , Reply# 34   11/5/2017 at 18:25 (323 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
New Whirlpool on Craiglist

The Whirlpool WDF330PAHW is available Brand New for $175 on Sacramento Craigslist. I am tempted, however I would like nylon racks. I suppose for the price I should not be pickey.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 48bencix's LINK on Sacramento Craigslist

Post# 966327 , Reply# 35   11/6/2017 at 01:38 (323 days old) by superocd (PNW)        

I have a Whirlpool Gold dishwasher. It's about three years old. So far it hasn't had any problems and it washes well. It just takes too long--over three hours--to complete the cycle. That's not an issue because it is usually run after my wife and I has had dinner. The old 2004 Frigidaire that was original to the house when it was built washed the dishes in no more than an hour and fifteen minutes.

The pump on this thing freaked me out when I first bought it. I literally had an "oh hell no" moment and contemplated taking it back when I took the dishwasher out of the box. It's a small, plastic pump. No big and heavy "washer motor" attached to a pump mechanism. I call it a fishtank pump. Surprisingly, it does a good job, but I'm not so sure about its long term reliability. Askoll (the company that made the pump) had stamped "For intermittent use only" on the plastic body of the motor, so the days of the heavy duty 1/4 horsepower motors of steel that we are accustomed to are over; it also explains the reasoning behind the pauses in the cycles, the motor cannot handle running continuously without pausing to cool off. Unfortunately, it seems as if all dishwashers are using low power fishtank type pumps.

Fortunately, it washes well and it's a Whirlpool, which means parts are cheap and easy to find should something happen. Just keep the filter cup clean. It is a pain to access, you have to clear the spray arm to pull it out.

Post# 966331 , Reply# 36   11/6/2017 at 02:28 (323 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

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I am in support of new dishwashers with filtration systems instead of chopper assemblies.

I'll get it out of the way, I will always recommend a Miele dishwasher over anything that is made. There are no ifs about it. I have yet to be disappointed by them.

That being said... Depending on what your must haves are, a new dishwasher will be around that 1k-1500 price point. I would not own a 3 or 5 series Bosch. We have had over 70 repair calls on them just in 2017. If look at a German appliance and it does NOT say Made in Germany on it, DO NOT BUY IT.

I also don't know that I would own a new Maytag with that crooked/tapered rack. We get a lot of complaints about loading things in the bottom rack. We've had to take two out because the owner's plates simply would not fit in the unit. That being said Maytag has put a powerdry option on one of their models, the 8979 that adds fan-assisted drying.

I do like the Whirlpool WDTA50 dishwasher, it blends nicely with any package that I sell, regardless of the manufacture. The Kitchenaids with the Clean Water wash system are going to have a hybrid wash system between the point voyager and whatever they call the new filter system. I say that because it has the larger wash pump but a self cleaning mesh filter system that back flushes like a swimming pool filter. KitchenAid is also adding back fan-assisted drying. The only thing is I don't like how flimsy the tubs are on the new KitchenAids. For a $1k plus dishwasher, it shouldn't feel cheap.

After rebuilding a Frigidaire dishwasher for my mom, and servicing a 7 year old Electrolux, I am really liking their designs. I will say that I probably wouldn't look at the units that have a plastic filter that has the wash arm support in part of the filter assembly. The way those units are designed, all of the debris is swept by the arms to the center of the tub and pushed directly into the wash pump intake. The new units that have the filters away from the wash arms clean much better. They also have inline heaters built into the motors or separate units in the lines. They also have a fan-assisted dry cycle. The new units with the better filters don't have exposed heat elements, so no real heated dry system, just a higher rinse temp. The Electrolux dishwashers have what seem to be some of the sturdiest racks I've ever seen in a dishwasher. IF I didn't have my Miele dishwashers, I would probably purchase an Electrolux dishwasher. I really like the way they are designed. They are heavy and feel solid. They are pretty impressive.

I am not a fan of GE dishwashers. We either have a lot of control panels go out or everyone seems to snap the latch sensor arms off their dishwashers.

LG dishwashers were a dud because we had a lot of failures early on and didn't have great support from the distributor. The distributor changed, but so did warranty processes and we ABSOLUTELY hate working with LG to get warranty claims through.

Samsung... The water wall dishwashers are growing on me.... I don't like their dishwashers that aren't water wall and its mainly because they aren't built by Samsung.

We sell a lot of Asko dishwashers in our other store, but thats because the lady that pushes them there has one and she thinks the same thing about them as I do Miele.

As far as budget goes, if it was absolutely necessary to stay under the $500 limit, I would probably say go with a whirlpool/amana. You aren't going to find something better for less.

To the longevity thing... That is all in a matter of how you take care of your appliances. If you check the filters regularly, use the hottest cycle often enough and don't OVER SOAP the machines, they should last a long time. They say cleaning power and cleanability is a trifecta, so is machine maintenance. Don't do something that will over tax the system on a regular basis, don't do something that will cause buildup of debris or detergent, and keep things hygienic (let things air out and clean parts and surfaces).

Post# 966332 , Reply# 37   11/6/2017 at 02:41 (323 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Would you buy a Bosch dishwasher or other appliance that was built in their New Bern,NC factory-they used to build Bosch power tools there-their tools were top quality.Are the machines ASSEMBLED at the former power tool site using German parts?Its like the idea of Miele vacuum cleaners "assembled" in China from German parts-S3 series vacuums.

Post# 966345 , Reply# 38   11/6/2017 at 07:02 (323 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I will stick to vintage

My Custom 21 Kitchen Aid is done in a hour or less.

Post# 966346 , Reply# 39   11/6/2017 at 07:10 (323 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
So its insane to use old appliances???

Well, I'm cooking on a 58 year old Westinghouse, washing clothes and drying them on 35 plus year old Hotpoints, my dishwasher is mid 80s....If I can get a hold of a 60s Kitchen Aid I will use that instead and I'm looking for a 50s or early 60s Westinghouse fridge to replace the 8 year old POS Hotpoint....I guess I'm ready for the asylum!!LOL....Oh yeah, I made a cake last week and mixed it in a 1957 Westinghouse stand mixer!

Post# 966347 , Reply# 40   11/6/2017 at 07:15 (323 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I have NO USE for any new

Appliances, all my experiences with them have been bad!My NEW stereo is a 1965 GE,I play only vinyl, none of that new stuff for me, If I had a repair man close by there would be a round tube color tv in my living room....I could go on and on!

Post# 966351 , Reply# 41   11/6/2017 at 07:39 (323 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
A few moreI just made toast in my 1949

Westinghouse toaster, and vacuumed with my 1964 Compact vacuum.....I'm REALLY insane!

Post# 966356 , Reply# 42   11/6/2017 at 08:08 (323 days old) by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I have a Bosch Logixx from 2003/2004, stainless steel tub. Generally, it cleans okay - but the alternating spray arm spraying pattern I think, is somewhat lacklustre. Tannin stains from tea and coffee seem to be rather difficult for this machine to remove. I had noted grease collected around the underside plastic lip of the central cylindrical filter. The corrugated transfer tube from water matrix to the tub, can be a problem area on this era of machine as grease and gunk can accumulate in it.

I've replaced the spray arms twice - first time was because the upper spray arm had a slightly different hole pattern which wasn't cleaning debris from the plates. Second time was because the arms were simply worn out (wobbling, clattering against the basket).

I replaced the complete dispenser assembly a couple of years ago, as the rinse-aid was pouring out. The rinse-aid dispenser plunger seal itself was not serviceable.

And the salt reservoir lid needed renewing too, it had simply cracked through time.

My mum has the 2013 bottom range Bosch - with plastic tub base and steel tub walls. It is noisier than mine but cleans very, very well indeed with a much more sensible alternating arm spray pattern. Grease build-up around the filter is not a problem. I do like this machine - yes, it's slightly flimsier than mine - but the performance exceeds that of mine.

Having had a look at other Bosch UK customers' online reviews, it appears a few have previously had a top end model which they weren't particularly happy with. Then they went 'bottom of line' Bosch and found more noise, less features, but good cleaning.

Post# 966390 , Reply# 43   11/6/2017 at 11:42 (323 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
this topic seems to be a loaded question of sorts.....

and a lot of factors to consider....

between one machine being better than another....

a normally great machine could be troublesome, while a lesser rated machine could really perform well...

it also depends when picking an older or vintage machine, what condition is it in to start with....

granted a number of us have found some low use well as ones still in the box, unused for decades...

and whats your mechanical knowledge or background to maintain it yourself...

Post# 966400 , Reply# 44   11/6/2017 at 12:40 (323 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

YogiTunes: this topic seems to be a loaded question of sorts.....
LOL, many questions here end up "loaded" even if they don't start that way!

Post# 966415 , Reply# 45   11/6/2017 at 14:01 (323 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
You need to chill out...

unimatic1140's profile picture
New appliances are "NEW" and old one's are "OLD". Why would ANYONE want an appliance that is over 10 years old as a daily driver is INSANE!

I wouldn't have seen that post had so many members not marked it as offensive, thank you all for doing that.

As for you Bruce, thanks for insulting a large portion of the membership here. If it wasn't for many of us using 10 to 70 year old major appliances as daily drivers, this website you're spouting out on wouldn't even exist.

Personally almost all my daily drivers are 50+ years old along, does that make me insane too? I do have a few token 21st century models, but that's mainly for the novelty and rarely use them. None of them are so much better in performance than the best of the vintage machines.

You have the nerve to tell someone "Nope, wrong on all counts", when it's clear to most of us here that your "all counts" is nothing more than your opinion, not fact. You really lose us when you talk about vintage KitchenAid dishwashers being anything less than stellar in the performance department, those of us that use them daily know better. You may have had one bad experience, that was totally valid but that doesn't make it so for the rest of us.

I've seen you post things that are clearly wrong, questionable or blown way out of proportion to make your point on machines I and many others are currently using. There is no proof in long ago memories, there is concrete proof in using the machine the evening before.

Post# 966454 , Reply# 46   11/6/2017 at 18:42 (322 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

The Maytag Quiet Series 300 here just had its first part fail today, just about 12 years to the date from when it was first commissioned (just before Thanksgiving 2005). The handle broke, and when I googled "Maytag quiet series 300" just now, a replacement handle was the very first hit.

Post# 966456 , Reply# 47   11/6/2017 at 18:52 (322 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture

We didn't really have a lot of issues with Bosch dishwashers until we started installing units made here.

As far as I know, the 800 series and Benchmark Series are still made in Germany. That is generally what we sell because we haven't had a lot of issues over the years with them.

Post# 966458 , Reply# 48   11/6/2017 at 18:57 (322 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 966473 , Reply# 49   11/6/2017 at 20:04 (322 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

Still on F&P dishdrawers here, dating back to 2003. Little maintenance required mainly because of simple and practical filter design. I also mostly use longest, hottest cycle which keeps everything clean. Every couple of months I take out the filter plates to check underneath and I have a good look at the wash arms. In all the years nothing has ever lodged itself inside the wash arms.

I think most people experience problems when they primarily use eco-cycles that use less water and lower temps. I've never once had to buy a dishwasher cleaner or deodorizer, ever.

From 1988 until '99 I had a GSD 2800 with soft food waste disposal. A small soft rubber plug sat inside the wash assembly below the bottom wash arm. It disintegrated over time and that did affect wash performance until it got fixed. However, the filter system never required any interventions. When I finally had to replace that machine I took the filter assembly apart and it was as clean as a whistle.

This post was last edited 11/06/2017 at 21:18
Post# 971913 , Reply# 50   12/6/2017 at 10:00 (293 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

While extolling the longevity of my 2001 Bosch 300 series DW earlier in this thread, I mentioned "no service issues ever". This is true, but I had to do one "repair": had some tines and crossbars on lower basket that began to rust through, so I replaced the lower basket via They no longer make the OEM 300 basket, so I bought a current 500 series basket which fit perfectly. It was also a bit of an upgrade, in that I now have a more flexible flatware basket, plus a handle in front of the basket to pull it forward (less stooping).

I had fixed the ends of some of the tines with a repair cap kit, but threw in the towel once the crossbars began to rust. Rust is no friend of DW pumps.

That said, I have now invested $175 in "repairs". Were it to need a major repair, I'd consider getting a new one.

Post# 971997 , Reply# 51   12/6/2017 at 17:39 (292 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

volsboy1's profile picture

I see, I was not the only person who got ticked off .

Nobody will ever tell me that vintage Kitchen aid dishwashers suck and if they do will they can go to hell.

I have had 5 or more and they all have been by far the best performing machines I have used.

I have a 8 year old Smeg dishwasher and it has been good no problems at all and its Made in Italy.

I also have a G.E. 1200 Pot-scrubber dishwasher that is probably around 24 years old.

They both have these Orbital wash arms. The Smeg is set up like the Frigidare Orbit wash

and the G.E. has two small arms attached to the end of the main arm with the tower and it washes like hell.

That G.E. is rare I cant find parts for it at all hardly but when it works it is a hell of a machine..


Post# 972021 , Reply# 52   12/6/2017 at 19:16 (292 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

washman's profile picture

I'm insane. I freely admit it.

Post# 972033 , Reply# 53   12/6/2017 at 20:08 (292 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Vintage Dishwashers, especially Potscrubber and KA

panthera's profile picture

We have had several KA, both the real Hobart and the, well, Whirlpool version.

Our 15 (portable) does clean extraordinarily well and is all original. It, like all vintage KA dishwashers, demands considerable attention to detail in loading. I've figured out through the years how to load both racks such that everything comes out spotless - but I will not pretend for one second that it's fun or remotely like loading a RR Maytag or any Potscrubber or vintage Miele.

In the remotest.

As to the other KAs (the real ones, not the Whirlpools), yeah, well, OK, it's like this. Yes, they use very good components and great enamel. With the occasional exception of upside down dispensers (I'll never grasp that one if I live to be 400 years old) they were very well thought out.

But - they still required enormous effort to load right in order to get things clean. Yes, if you did it right, they worked perfectly. But, please, guys and gals - don't pretend you have the freedom in just throwing things into one such as a Twenty-Eight Hundred offers. Even Consumer Reports, who automatically crowned KA Queen of everything, admitted that. Through clinched teeth.

Nothing I've ever used matches an RR Maytag for flexibility, followed closely by a Potscrubber with multi-orbital arm (when a whirligig works, that, too).

OK, so the whole durability thing. Here's where we get into discussions. I think it's perfectly fair for me, a dude who replaces appliances used in (now) over 100 rentals regularly to compare and contrast. The BOL AMANA which Whirlpool has had on the market for some time now just plain hold up as well as do the extra specially expensive BOSCH and the TOL Whirlpool stuff. The mechanical Hotpoint/GEs last forever, but their cleaning performance was castrated by the decision to shrink the water level below their designed capabilities (which were not adjusted.) Throw an extra 2 liters of hot water into the wash cycle of a new Potscrubber (yes, I know they don't call them that anymore, but they are) at the beginning of the cycle and, wow! It'll clean enormously better.


I loved my Mieles in Germany. They were outstanding. I love my Potscrubbers here because of two reasons:

1) I refuse, absolutely refuse to prerinse or prescrub.

2) You can just throw stuff in and it comes out clean without spending half an hour checking the photos (yes, I did) you made up showing the 'keep-out' zones and placements you need to get equally clean dishes out of a real KA.


As to Whirlpool - there's no questions about it, their design really and truly has reached the point where they work and work well. I'll never be a fan of them, but a dishwasher which can stand up in a rental for five to seven years is a good machine. 

Post# 972040 , Reply# 54   12/6/2017 at 20:42 (292 days old) by arris (Rochester New York)        

arris's profile picture
I'd purchased a Kenmore elite dishwasher 5 yrs ago, to replace my 94 kenmore ultra wash dishwasher, I hated the new one.... took over an hr in pots and pans, dishes would not get clean, nothing was dry, I won't leave any appliance running when either not home or going to bed, I got a KDI-18 a few years ago, it's the BEST dishwasher I've ever had !!!! 20 minutes in the normal cycle everything is washed and CLEAN, another 30-40 everything is dry.... an added plus is I like the sound it makes when washing..... like that of sitting in the back section of a plane... great dishwasher !!!

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