Thread Number: 755
Top Loading H-Axis Combo Unit from Sanyo
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Post# 51086   12/15/2004 at 03:46 (7,058 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Surfing around the web came upon this nifty unit. Have never seen a combo top loading H-axis unit before, only washers.

Launderess


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Post# 51103 , Reply# 1   12/15/2004 at 07:34 (7,058 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Cool! Reminds me a bit of a gigantic breadmaker. After years of relative stagnation in design/innovation (at least in the US), the laundry market is teeming with new, interesting products.

Post# 51117 , Reply# 2   12/15/2004 at 11:53 (7,058 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Thanks for sharing that picture! The opening of this machine looks very much like the one the Miele toploaders have. Toploading H-axis washer dryers have been on the market in Europe for quite a while. Overhere both Brandt and AEG sell them. Since the space in a toploader is used more efficiently than in a frontloader and a combo has more parts than a washer these machines seem to be a horror to repair. The cabinets of those machines are really packed with parts.

Post# 51126 , Reply# 3   12/15/2004 at 15:01 (7,058 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Here's Another Snap of the Sanyo AWD B860

launderess's profile picture
Found another snap of the Sanyo combo unit to share. Just LOVE the styling, pity the washer is only sold in Japan. It may be sold elsewhere in the Far East, but that isn't doing us in the West any good.

Louis, have used top loading H-axis washers in Europe and think either as a stand alone washer or combo unit they would sell well in North America. For one thing it would address the complaints many have about having to bend down to load/unload the washer.

The Sanyo unit has three "doors", IIRC the washers I've used may have had two, but maybe three also, it has been awhile. Do you have any model numbers for the Miele or AEG units? Would love to compare.

Sanyo used to sell washers and dryers in North America, wonder if they ever will export the B860 or similar type?

Launderess


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Post# 51127 , Reply# 4   12/15/2004 at 15:02 (7,058 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Here's a link to translated sales information for the above washer.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK


Post# 51150 , Reply# 5   12/15/2004 at 21:28 (7,058 days old) by veg-o-matic (Baltimore, Hon!)        

veg-o-matic's profile picture
I think it was easier to understand in Japanese!

Post# 51156 , Reply# 6   12/15/2004 at 22:28 (7,058 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        
My prference for HA TL

I still think I prefer this machine!

Such a shame you cant watch the wash action in these machines, because they are fascinating pieces of equipment to look at!


Post# 51157 , Reply# 7   12/15/2004 at 23:59 (7,057 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Miele toploaders

foraloysius's profile picture
Launderess, the model numbers for the Miele toploaders have changed. The new numbers are W204, W207F, W212WPM, W237WPM and W247WPM. The 247 is the touchbutton model. You can find these machines on the German website. They have the honeycomb drum too. In the past Miele had a toploading combo, but now they only have toploading H-axis washers.

I have never understood why the European companies don't sell their toploading models on the American market, I even mailed Miele and Bosch about it but they never responded.

I will have to find a link for information on the AEG combo, it's still available but can't find anything about that machine at the moment. What I do know is that it's a model that needs frequent repairs.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 51186 , Reply# 8   12/16/2004 at 08:11 (7,057 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Louis

jetcone's profile picture
I think those H Axis Top Loaders are your passion machine!! It would be cool to play with one. I found a patent the other day on a Whirlpool H axis top loader. The nearest thing in prodcution over here is the new F&P top loader dryer with the Stainless Steel tub. AHve you seen that machine? Very cool machine.

Post# 51197 , Reply# 9   12/16/2004 at 10:10 (7,057 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Jon

foraloysius's profile picture
Yes, I have a weak spot for the H-axis toploaders although many people will find them boring because you can't see what is going on inside the machine. I know the patent Whirlpool has, I found it some years ago. I was wondering if that one is still blocking the possibility of bringing these machines on the American market.

I have indeed seen the F&P toploading dryer. And I have a special thing with it. F&P were claiming originally that it was a world's first. I mailed them and told them this was nothing new, that overhere in Europe we already had toploading dryers in the 60's and they were still available in Europe. That's why they changed their claim and now they say it's the world's first large capacity topload dryer....


Post# 51325 , Reply# 10   12/18/2004 at 11:52 (7,055 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
AEG topload combo

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Launderess,

I found the AEG topload combo on the internet. I hope you understand a bit of German!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO foraloysius's LINK


Post# 51333 , Reply# 11   12/18/2004 at 21:49 (7,055 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Size

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Louis if I read that ad right it is 45 cm across; that seems narrow?
And it takes 4.5kgs of clothes for wash & dry??
That is 9 pounds and my LARGE Duomatic (36 inches wide) takes only 9 pounds.
You must have to remove the clothes right away to avoid wrinkles setting in in the small cylinder??

jon



Post# 51345 , Reply# 12   12/19/2004 at 01:29 (7,054 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        
Size

Jon -- not that it matters much, but 4.5kg is just about 10 pounds. And yes, it's only 45 cm width because the drum is mounted sideways like you can see in the picture posted in the first message. Usually, toploading washers or washer/dryers in Europe have that configuration because you can cram it in less space than a regular machine, very much like the 18-inch dishwashers here in US.

Either way, it's my understanding that yes, most washer/dryers in Europe wash the rated capacity (full drum) but then you need to unload half the wash and dry in two cycles. Washer-dryers in America tended to have a drum almost the same size as a full dryer and you fill it just half-full, more or less (as if it were a dryer).

Everyone else, hi, long time no see! I hope everyone is doing great and have great holidays! I've been more busy than usual lately so, unfortunately, have not been able to read the site for a while, lots to catch up on!

Cheers!


Post# 51347 , Reply# 13   12/19/2004 at 02:53 (7,054 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Older AEG toploader

foraloysius's profile picture
Paulo, you are right. You need to dry a full load in two drying cycles. That's why they aren't very popular, at least overhere where people have room for a washer and a dryer. But for instance in Paris, where people live in "bijou" apartments you see them a lot.

Jon, I found a picture of an older AEG toploader that is a washer only. And yes it can hold 10 pounds of laundry. And have you seen the pictures of my small AEG toploader? That one can still hold 9 pounds. Some toploaders like the combos are indeed 45cm, but there are also machines that are only 40cm wide, like the Philips I had.


Post# 51461 , Reply# 14   12/20/2004 at 18:39 (7,053 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Thank You Louis

launderess's profile picture
For all the great snaps and information! The Miele and AEG top loading H-Axis washers are truly gorgeous.

The top loading H-axis washer is such a great design as it allows the ease of top loading with the benefits of a front loader. Only down side I can see is capacity as I've never seen 16 or 18 pound capcity washers of this type, and that seems to be where the American front loader market is heading. Still a small (5-11 pounds) top loading h-axis washer would probably find a nice market. Combo units would also find themselves welcomed on this side of the pond.

Launderess



Post# 51522 , Reply# 15   12/21/2004 at 13:57 (7,052 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
You're welcome

foraloysius's profile picture
I guess it shows that I'm enthousiastic about this type of washer. The small capacity is basically caused by the small size of the cabinet. A few years ago I found a patent from Whirlpool on this type of machine. I guess they designed an American sized H-axis toploader. The capacity of this design must be enormous. Since I found that patent I'm wondering if that is perhaps stopping other manufacturers from selling their toploaders in the US. I think there would be a market for this machine. I'm really puzzled why Whirlpool brought out the Calypso instead of a machine like this. It has been suggested that the American consumer might find it too difficult to handle the flaps of the drum, but I think they can be made quite fool proof.

Post# 51553 , Reply# 16   12/22/2004 at 03:02 (7,051 days old) by designgeek ()        

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the Staber.

This is a top-loading horizontal axis machine, made in USA. Capacity is 2 cubic feet, 16 standard sized bath towels (26" x 42" towels).

The unit is designed to be end-user serviceable via the front panel, and they say so on their website.

The design is quite clever: the outer tank is hexagonal, open at the top. The drum is hexagonal with a hatch. The rotation of a hexagon within another hexagon produces a much more vigorous movement of water than the rotation of a cylinder within a cylinder.

The hatch is also quite clever, basically it is self-latching when you close it, see the pictures on the company website (URL below).

Base price is $1,000, and higher-priced models are available based on external trim, optional coinbox operation, etc.

Company website, with plenty of pictures: www.staber.com...

Other pictures:

Picture of unit with front panel removed, showing simple drive mech:
bigfrogmountain.com/images/Staber...

Picture of unit, exterior view:
www.bigfrogmountain.com/images/wa...

You can order from the manufacturer, or from places such as this:
www.bigfrogmountain.com/residenti...

Does anyone here have any experience with these?


Post# 51559 , Reply# 17   12/22/2004 at 06:48 (7,051 days old) by agiflow ()        

Does the Staber use baffles in this machine or is the shape of the hexagon enough to tumble the clothes efficiently?

Post# 51598 , Reply# 18   12/22/2004 at 14:08 (7,051 days old) by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River)        
staber and viewing

bpetersxx's profile picture
I sent an email message about windows on a staber so we could see in.

This is the email

Not now, but maybe sometime in the future. At least with our design you
can open up the lid while it is washing to check things out.

Regards,
Chad Neal
Staber Industries, Inc.
www.staber.com...
1-800-848-6200

-----Original Message-----
From: bdp [mailto:bpetersxx@earthlink.net...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:40 AM
To: Chad Neal
Subject: windows

can clear glass windows be manufactured in.

The laundry industry has taken an interest in seeing in washers
and seeing the inside while it is operating


Post# 51603 , Reply# 19   12/22/2004 at 15:47 (7,051 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I didn't forget about the Staber washers, but they're a bit of an odd one out. They don't have a service network, if there is something wrong you have to do the repair yourself. I think there was a thread about the Staber toploaders. I don't think the hexagonal drum has baffles, they don't need them. Perhaps they have a patent on the drum etc. I think the capacity is not very big considering the measurements of the cabinet.

Post# 51608 , Reply# 20   12/22/2004 at 17:42 (7,051 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)        
Staber-

Yes, I started a thread on the Staber as I thought it may be a machine well suited to the needs of people here on Maui. Jetcone wrote a detailed post about his less than happy experience with that machine. I think that while its nice that the machine is user servicable, that only goes so far. I mean, just because I can change the oil on my truck doesn't mean I have the time and inclination. And all they can give us in a full size cabinet is a 2 cub ft tub. Thats not trying real hard, is it?

So I decided that it is too unconventional in a world of 3 and now almost 4 cub ft machines. No matching dryer is a drawback too, for some people.


Post# 51679 , Reply# 21   12/24/2004 at 01:07 (7,049 days old) by designgeek ()        

Good that Staber responds to email directly.

What I think makes the washing action work is that rotating a perforated hexagonal drum inside a hexagonal tub causes a variable clearance between the walls of the former and the latter, forcing water through the load in the drum in a way that's not possible with a cylinder inside a cylinder. And the forced water action, plus the inherent lift-and-drop action of a hexagonal container, would also remove the need for baffles in the drum.

The geometry also explains why the drum capacity is smaller. The maximum size of the drum is always going to be smaller than a comparable cylinder because it has to clear the tub, i.e. the largest dimension of the drum (between opposite vertices) has to clear the smallest dimension of the tub (between opposite parallel walls).

What were Jetcone's problems with the Staber? Or, where can I find the topic thread?

As for me, personally I like to be able to watch what's going on at least during the wash cycle to see that the load is moving and not hung up in some way. If nothing else, to prevent the frustration of doing a load with a lot of pairs of jeans or other difficult items, and getting "done" only to discover some of the stuff has not washed or rinsed adequately. So that rules out all of the top-loading horizontal axis machines for me, because the container has to be closed in such a way as one can't see inside.



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