Thread Number: 75828  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Permanent water conservation rules for Californians "per person per" day
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Post# 996644   6/9/2018 at 12:38 by dylanmitchell (San Diego, CA)        

What I want to know is how they're going to enforce the "per person per" day for indoor water use. Do they already know how many people are in my house or will they start tracking this? I'm actually surprised California doesn't have its own regs for washing machines like they do for toilets, faucets, and showers but glad they don't. And I'm sure no one has bought regular flow fixtures online or in Yuma...

The real solution besides conservation is recycled water. Or fewer people. Not sure what that would be in San Diego but I'm reading a book that suggests the sustainable population for Phoenix-based on natural resources is 25,000 and San Diego has more resources so say 100,000 or so which I know won't happen.

Two bills, AB 1668 and SB 606, set general guidelines for water agencies to follow in California's post-drought era. Standards will be based on a formula that is made up of three main factors: an allowance of 55 gallons per person per day for indoor water use ó dropping to 50 gallons by 2030; a yet-to-be determined amount for residential outdoor use that will vary depending on regional climates; and a standard for water loss due to leak rates in water system pipes.

Water agencies will be encouraged to have their customers limit indoor water use to an average of 55 gallons a day per person, declining to 50 gallons by 2030.

Most Californians have low flow toilets, low flow faucets, and have curtailed outdoor water usage. And with a high-efficiency front load washing machine vs be beloved TL SQ you'd be unlikely to have trouble meeting the new restrictions. Or you could just plumb your washer to water landscaping.

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Post# 996658 , Reply# 1   6/9/2018 at 15:07 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

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Sounds like a perfect time for used appliance dealers in neighboring states to fill a couple U-Hauls with Whirlpool direct drives at pennies on the dollar.

Post# 996659 , Reply# 2   6/9/2018 at 15:11 by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
I Record My Water Use Daily....

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.....and my average daily use is 49 gallons per day. That is with FULL FLOW shower head, 30 year-old top load washing machine and 20 year-old dishwasher.

I have no lawn to water - just container plants outside in the back yard.
Dishwasher is run once a week on "normal" cycle.
Average 2 loads of washing per week.
Shower (GASP!) only twice a week.
I save water in a bucket in the bathtub while waiting for the hot water to get from garage to upstairs bathroom.
I flush the toilet only once a day (unless...) and one flush is accomplished with the bucket of water.

I do wash my own cars (2) once every 3-4 months using a shut-off nozzle on the hose and bucket of soapy water.

Conservation is the "new normal" for California - and it's only going to get more stringent as time goes by.

Oh yes - for this LITTLE amount of water that I use the cost is $40 per month.

Post# 996664 , Reply# 3   6/9/2018 at 16:06 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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The water company I deal with here in the Desert, Coachella Valley Water Distirct, gives you very detailed information concerning your present and past monthly water usage. In addition, you are given a rating, the top two being "Excellent" or "Efficient".  I always fall in these categories so give me at least half a gold star. I have a decent-sized lot with a medium-sized back lawn, very necessary for my 2 Springer Spaniels. At one time I had a very large front lawn now changed to desert landscaping courtesy for the most part of the water company and the State. It was pricey and I'm grateful. 


Even though I live alone, I still have 4 toilets, 2 tubs and 3 showers so I do try and conserve (I guess it's the number of people using this stuff that counts, not how many you have). I haven't used my dishwasher in 2 years (very few things to wash) and the Maytag big-tub Atlantis is no water saver. Hard to believe the new 2017 Speed Queens are still covered up in the going on 3 months or more. I suspect the washer will use about the same amount of water as the Maytag if it ever makes it to the laundry room...a scant 20 feet away. Dumb me!

Post# 996669 , Reply# 4   6/9/2018 at 16:57 by appnut (TX)        

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My winter average was 32 to 36 gallons a day.

Post# 996675 , Reply# 5   6/9/2018 at 17:40 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
100 gallons per day

We have cut back our water usage but still use about 100 gallons a day per person in the winter. As far as I know there are no leaks. We have 2.5 gallons per minute shower heads, the new standard is 1.8. Our toilets are from the last Century but we do not always flush. Yes the Speed Queen is a top loader but we do not use the second rinse any more. Dishwasher is the Ultrawash which is not a real hog, newer ones will save a couple of gallons a day. During the Summer the usage really rises because we are in Sacramento and have a 1/3 acre lot. So far there is no strict guideline from the water company as to a limit on actual gallons. Yes, I did see the new law. I suppose that if they look at, for instance, the census, they will see two persons in this home. I may just tell them that I have several undocumented persons here also, and it is none of their business who they are.

We did adjust our habits to lower the usage to 100 gallons a day per person from about 200 gallons per day before. I really can't think of what more to cut out. I do use a fair amount to cook and clean up the pots and pans. We sometimes do take a couple of showers. Of course if we have a real drought we will cut back more. It may mean a new front loader, and new toilets. I just hope those toilets will move the waste through the 150' waste line to the main sewer. I will water at my 60 year old street trees, and maybe not much else. Agriculture uses the most water in the state. We need the food, of course, but they could cut back and let us residents have a little more.

Post# 996678 , Reply# 6   6/9/2018 at 18:25 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I try conserving water

anyway. It's still expensive even here now. This county has to pay for sink hole repairs, and infrastructure improvements. Some of the mains are very old.
I wash a half washer basket of laundry so it fills not more than half with water.
Holds about 50 gallons on the bulky cycle. Too much.
I only wash a car at home in the rain. I don't water our lawn. It comes back every spring nice. I over seed in early March. I water the gardens with a can.
One shower head is a 1.5 g.p.m.. The other is a 2.5 g.p.m. It rinses you faster, so I don't know if it uses more water. I do shut of the water between shampoo, shave, soap up. My dad taught us that. He used to say may as well toss a ten dollar bill out the window otherwise.
Still have an older toilet in one bath. The other is a new 1.28 gallon flush. It works better than the older one.

Post# 996680 , Reply# 7   6/9/2018 at 18:33 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

"Shower (GASP!) only twice a week."

What? 2 showers per week?

This is.. is... is... OMG i don't even want to think.

Post# 996681 , Reply# 8   6/9/2018 at 18:55 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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I only put my toilet into the septic and regular drains go to a sink spout, french drain and dry up. There is nothing in detergents or most anything a reasonable person knows what and what not you could put down a drain that would cause environmental damage. And I am on a well that is constantly full.

Post# 996687 , Reply# 9   6/9/2018 at 19:59 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

At its worst during the drought here we had Target 140L, which is about 35 gal per person per day. There was no outside hose usage, you needed to bucket water or have drip lines installed. Our city adapted and quite often the average consumption surpassed this. Now we have water again, the target is back to 240L per person per day or about 60gal. That's a lot less than the 100gals each people used to use.

It's been 5 years like that now and we don't even notice anymore. You can still use water, but you don't waste it watering the lawn, you just use only what you need to.

Post# 996709 , Reply# 10   6/10/2018 at 01:48 by superocd (PNW)        

Maybe California will have no need for draconian regulations like this. People are going to get fed up and move away, and then there will be enough water.

I think my wife and I (and it's just the two of us) are pretty easy on water usage, even though we each take showers twice a day (I shower Navy style) and run a cycle once a day (it's a FL). Sometimes I run my own cycle whenever I something like compressor oil or just a whole lot of grime/dust on my uniforms so I don't take the chance of messing up my wife's scrubs. Not a big deal.

I wash both our cars once every two weeks, which I feel is reasonable. I think a using a few cents' worth of water is well worth preserving a paint job that could cost a couple thousand dollars. We run the dishwasher daily. It's a Whirlpool from 2014, so it's no 1975 KitchenAid. It's usually 60-75% full but the water usage is so negligible, why the heck not (we would use more water handwashing the dishes, which we NEVER, ever, ever do).

Never once watered the lawn, even when we had kind of a "drought" going on. I never felt the need to. Our neighbors might, but I just figured why waste the time and effort when it will return to green in a couple of weeks with our notorious PNW rains we get?

Our water bill is about $100/month, which is not bad at all. Most of the bill is less water/sewer and more taxes and fees. I remember when we were gone 1/2 the month on a vacation one time and it still came out to $100. No leaks, either, I check that once in a blue moon and the meter does not count up when everything is off.

Water alone is like $20/month, sewage is $30, trash is $25.

Post# 996712 , Reply# 11   6/10/2018 at 06:21 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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I use on average 35 gallons per day.

Post# 996714 , Reply# 12   6/10/2018 at 06:52 by washman (Butler, PA)        
Why anyone would want to live in CA

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is beyond me.

Is there anything that is not taxed, regulated, or otherwise banned?

Post# 996726 , Reply# 13   6/10/2018 at 09:32 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Why live in Califunia?

Same reason some Californians don't want to live back east. Weather. Generally low humidity, moderate temps below 100 f., most of the time.
However, every rose has a thorn. Even the thornless variety get some as they age.
Hunmidity is a bit higher in the LA basin since the large migration due mainly to swimming pools.
People from across the nation filled up the basin. It was the last frontier, aside from Alaska.
My uncle was installing a furnace in Pa. in December of 1953. The snow was whirling out the basement window. The next week, they left, never to return except to visit. They settled in a gateway suburb on the east south eastern edge of LA county.
Being an hvac man, California offered vast income opportunities.
He and his brother started their own company out there. A few of the sons joined after growing up. One grandson has assumed ownership today.
You can ski in the mountains in the morning, and surf in the afternoon at the beaches.
Yes it's expensive. If you are an easterner, you needed to go out there by 1976. Otherwise have a lot of money to buy any property.
Yes they have mud slides, fires, droughts, and the occasional earth quake.
Few tornadoes though, which have devastated many a mid western town.
It's mainly about the out of doors life style.
They work, and work hard, like we all do or have.
They live longer, with fewer health problems because they can be more active year round. Arthritis sufferers do better in general. My grandma used to spend January through March out there for that reason.
Agriculture is another benefit. Field grazing cattle, milk from those, abundant produce, grapes, wines, cheeses, walnuts, almonds, olives, avocados, etc.
Strawberries from Watsonville, Garlic from Gilroy, lettuces, etc., etc. from the Centro valley, San Jaquin, etc.
We must recall and be greatfull that had California and Texas remained with Mexico, the rest of the nation may be hurting.
Allow what is different about us all unite us rather than divide.
It's easy to be narrow minded in our little hamlet safety nets.
While many have left California, their state legislature will address this if too many do, perhaps. Or maybe that will relive some water usage need.
Water had to be brought into the LA basin from the mountains by building resivior's.
My uncle has no lawn. All rocks and pavers.

Post# 996728 , Reply# 14   6/10/2018 at 10:16 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Why would anyone want to live ine California? Well, maybe because its our home. I was born here and I love it, and wouldnít live anywhere else. BTW, California pays more taxes into the federal cofers than any other state in the union and those taxes help to finance the other states that are more improvised. Yet, we get no more representation in the Senate than any other state, and thereby less of a voice in how those tax dollars are spent at the federal level.

I have no idea what taxes are in other states, but I bet that every state has taxes that its citizens complain about too. Without taxation we canít have roads, bridges, public water systems, public schools, police and fire depts. to protect us, ect., ect,

And the regulations in California are meant to help save our environment and resources for the present and future generations, not to just inconvience and piss off people. Iím happy that I can turn on my tap and enjoy clean water. Iíll bet the people of Flint, Mi. would like to do the same.


Post# 996735 , Reply# 15   6/10/2018 at 11:27 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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I'll take the California taxes, regulations, banned items (?) and all the rest any old day.


Butler County Pennsylvania...

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Post# 996744 , Reply# 16   6/10/2018 at 12:35 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
Or fewer people..

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So many serious social problems can be solved with the use of a condom. People really should not reward women for getting pregnant. For example, never tell a pregnant woman "congratulations"(for what, having sex and destroying the environment?). I would also say for women, don't go to baby showers, why have a gift grab for making kids (men don't go to baby showers).

Twintubdexter: Actually, the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Harrisburg areas - where a lot of PA population is voted for Hillary (this would be Allegheny, Philadelphia, Bucks, and Dauphin counties). Plus, Hillary actually won by 3 million, the population of the Pittsburgh area. But you are right, even though more expensive and I get sunburned easily, I would like to live in California.

Post# 996760 , Reply# 17   6/10/2018 at 16:53 by golittlesport (California)        
Dont get caught up in Fake News

Relax, folks. Nobody is going to monitor or enforce individual's indoor water usage. These are guidelines being instituted for water districts.

Some fake news websites have started to try to get people alarmed by falsely claiming it will illegal to take a shower and do laundry on the same day in California due to "draconian" water regulations.

Water is a precious resource in California, especially Southern Cal. I think it is prudent to plan for a our future and find ways to lower water usage where possible. This really isn't anything new. We have had to cut water usage before and we'll do it again.

While we often suffer droughts, I think it safe to say Southern California has the best year-round weather in the nation and a beautiful coastline. Every state has benefits and draw backs.

Post# 996768 , Reply# 18   6/10/2018 at 17:46 by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

It doesnt need to be that big or scary, its all about having a plan for when it happens.

This link is a presentation that was prepared just before christmas 2017 after a dry winter. It shows how and when the restrictions cut in and how the process works.

I hope we dont get back to those low levels, but life isnt that hard, even if you have to


Post# 996775 , Reply# 19   6/10/2018 at 18:54 by henene4 (Germany)        
100gal a day???

Thats close to 380l. That would be "only" 1,66 peoples worth of water per person.

That's more then 3 Germans. (123l, about 32.5gal)

The German "average" is about 123l per person per day apparently according to Google.
That's about 32.5gal.
About 2/3rds of the country shower daily (Google), and about 12% (10l, 2.7gal) go to laundry, about 36% go for hygiene and 27% for toilets.
I can assume I am above average by 10-15%. I do use about 70l per load of laundry for about 12 loads a month, and dye my hair.
But given we barely even prerinse and only use the dishwasher, we are probably at 6% of that average.
We are - on average - 4 full time inhabitants here, and the DW runs 3-4 times a week. That's about 60l 16gal, including one extra load as "prerinsing\soaking pots and pans".
Back home were significantly overshot that, probably.

There are some traps in usage that aren't obvious.

A normal kitchen faucet uses 4-7gal a minute (according to google). That's what the highest using cycles on a average WP DW use.
Depending on how you prerinse, doubeling or trippeling your "dishes" usage is easy.
Even the rinse only cycle often uses less then 4gal. Sadly, those never were used much in my experience.

Post# 996776 , Reply# 20   6/10/2018 at 18:56 by washman (Butler, PA)        
PA has its quriks too

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In no particular order:


Occupational Privilege Tax. Yes  you pay a once a year tax because you have a job.

State Inspection on Vehciles


LCB.....Liquor Control Board.  3 appointees that determine the selection and price of liquor.

Post# 996778 , Reply# 21   6/10/2018 at 19:06 by henene4 (Germany)        
State inspection on vehicles

T‹V, goes from 50 to 100Ä every 2 years, plus eventual repairs and reevaluation.

We have a church tax. But only for the katholic church.

Oh, did I beforehand mention that we pay about 5,10Ä for 1000l (264gal for about 6$) of water?
About 60% of that go to our water treatment plant financing. It cost about 10,000,000$ and serves ~2200 people and a few small-ish buisnesses with increased water usage.
That's the price of a cheap new car for everyone.

Not sure how water treatment facilities scale, but imagine even half that for everybody in the LA area.
100gal a Day, that's close to about 5$ a day for water, lets round that to 1500$ of water per year in our prices.
Or, for 2 working people, about 1/24 of their yearly average income.

Be happy you don't have to pay that yet.

Post# 996780 , Reply# 22   6/10/2018 at 19:27 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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henene4:† A normal kitchen faucet uses 4-7gal a minute (according to google).
All my faucets are low-flow, except the master bath tub (showers are).† Kitchen is rated 2.2 GPM max but it runs slower.† Setting it full-on as a test, the water heater reports 1.3 GPM flow-rate.

Post# 996781 , Reply# 23   6/10/2018 at 19:35 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I am the president of our HOA with 20 unitís of townhouseís. There are approx. 35 residents. We have a Smart Water meter that I monitor daily, to head any major leaks off at the pass. We are currently irrigating the lawns 3 xís weekly. Our average daily usage is 2377 gals. This is a total of 16,639 gals per wk, of which 5350 gals are for irrigation only. So this computes to 1627 gals per day, divided by 35 occupants, =46.49 gals per person per day. So we are already easliy below the proposed daily limits per person, w/out watering the lawns. During the drought our average daliy usage was less than 2000 per day, so I donít worry too much about being able to stay within the new proposed limits.

We are careful with our water usage. All the faucets and toilets, and shower head meet the state low flow requirements and I donít find this to be an inconvenience at all. You get used to it. The 1.6 gal toilets work way better than the old 3.5 gal toilets ever did. and they were installed free by the city water dept.

We take ďNavyĒ showers, wet down, turn off the water shampoo, leave in the lather and then lather the body, then rinse. Got used to this too, kept it up after the drought was over, saves on the cost of electricity to heat the water. Iíve had both hips replaced, and for the first two weeks after both surgeries I had to bath at the sink. And thats not so terrible either. I learned how to get comlpetely clean with a sink full hot water, a fresh wash cloth and a bar of soap. Our ancestors had to do this all the time.

I just want to be able to always turn on my tap and have water come out of it. If youíve ever lived in the country with a well, and had it go dry, or the holding tank run empty, you know how important it is to have running water on demand.

Weíll all manage just fine.


Post# 996783 , Reply# 24   6/10/2018 at 19:54 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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I wish we could send water to those that need it, as Maine has 95% more fresh water than it will ever need. Instead, Poland Spring bottles it and sells it as quick as it can for a nice profit.

Post# 996791 , Reply# 25   6/10/2018 at 20:11 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Good research Joe (twin tub Dexter)

yet the senator from Mars Pa. lost his bid for the nomination at least once.
More recently, two counties to the south (Washington) also conservative, held a special election, and young Connor Lamb won it. Not by much, but it's hopeful he will again in November. His opponent is rather ignorant, has not solved many problems in his career.

Post# 996794 , Reply# 26   6/10/2018 at 20:19 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Neptune Bob, very ethical, and

also a very good point!
Pro birth is not the same as pro quality of life either. Like the double standard of for the former, but against aid for impoverished children.
Do they even know what they want? They too spend like a pork barrel when it benefits their own interests or their donors, such as defense contractors, etc.
ICE was in Ohio just a few days ago indicting a Landscape company which had 140 illegals in its employ.
Which party do most business owners support because of lower taxes, etc?
Hypocracy there also.
Oh, but they tell us if we are not with them, then we are against America.

Post# 996848 , Reply# 27   6/11/2018 at 12:15 by washman (Butler, PA)        

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really sure what the fact that most of my county voted from Trump has to do with anything.

Post# 996857 , Reply# 28   6/11/2018 at 16:05 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Some parts of most of the country did,

it's not only your country either. I didn't vote for either, so there.
We all know Pa. is red in the middle and blue in Pittsburgh and Philly.
Consider Delaware, other small states with few electoral votes.
So did is past tense now.
If a candidate has proven they are rational, fair, and can solve a problem, regardless of party, I consider them before I cast my votes.
It's a new game, a new time, with new problems.
here is an interesting demographic; New Alabny Ohio, settled by folks from Albany NY originally. 64% registered democratic. Also one of the highest per capita income places in the country. Now, there city supervisor is a republican. Maybe he is good with a budget, and has common sense. Also rational, and honest. Not like the governor of Missouri who resigned last month in light of an affair, or a few from around here who are conservatives but embezeled money from their townships and companies.

Post# 996859 , Reply# 29   6/11/2018 at 16:25 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
Re: Reply#23

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I forgot to mention that our water usage also includes a small swimming pool. Factoring that into the equation we are doing pretty good in our convservation of water already. And I know that many of our residents donít have low water use washers, and many are not especially conservative in their water usage. So, with just a little sacrafice and adjustment the new, proposed water restrictions shouldn't be that terribly onerous.


Post# 996873 , Reply# 30   6/11/2018 at 18:27 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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It was a mistake for me to inject anything political into a topic here. Water conservation is important almost everywhere. Here in the ever-expanding Desert Cities the average yearly rainfall is less than 5 inches. The recent California drought is far from over but the concerned citizens of this state have done a great job of cutting back on water usage. It's not easy and in some cases expensive.  Unfortunately, an old man like me who was born here, lived all of his life here and whose parents were born in California way back in the 1920's can take offense when someone says "Why anyone would want to live in CA is beyond me". One in five of all 50 state residents live here. That's an awful lot of answers.

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Post# 996886 , Reply# 31   6/11/2018 at 19:33 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Yes, I agree Joe.

In fact, we don't live in California, but part of my spouses company is headqaurtered there. The part in fact which hired him, before it was sold.
He works with people all around the country. It's a big wide world out there.
I for one here am very thankful for California! Open minded and educated people can pretty much work around the world today.
One of my cousins daughters has taught English in Hong Kong, and is now in Germany.
At least now you know you're not alone, politics aside and all.

Post# 996906 , Reply# 32   6/11/2018 at 20:58 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
If Youíre A Native Californian

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you understand how we feel about our state, as I would hope natives of other states can feel about their home state.

California is a beautiful place to live. We have the Pacific Ocean, mountains, lakes, rivers, the Redwoods, desert, snow, you name it. And people from all over the world live here. Itís liberal or not so much, depending upon where you are in California. But mostly progressive. There is something for everyone here. And because its a big state, with lots of people that inhabit it, it costs a lot to keep the everything in repair, and everything else that goes along with taking care of the public needs of a highly populated state.

Plus, we get way less of our tax dollars back from the feds in funding than any other state in the union, but we pay a higher percentage than any other state to the feds. Thatís at least one reason why our taxes are high.

Nevertheless, California is a wonderful place to live. Now I wish that so many other people wouldnít discover what makes California such a nice place to live. It was better before it got so crowded.

Post# 996909 , Reply# 33   6/11/2018 at 21:24 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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Eddie, Too many people are discovering this place too. I dont understand why as we may get a few days of real warm weather late July and August and then rain and always crappy. I have lived here my entire life and am getting real tired of the excessive taxes and rotten weather. Snow and cold from November thru April is nuts. Want to throw my snow shovel away for good.

Post# 996910 , Reply# 34   6/11/2018 at 21:35 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I here you Tim! I hate the snow. The only thing I like about it looking at it. I donít like being cold and I do not like to drive in snow. We get a lot of rain in the winter, but that I donít mind at all.


Post# 996912 , Reply# 35   6/11/2018 at 21:55 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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Eddie, if we could just get rain in the winter, I could live with it but our snow has always turned into wet cement now. March 12 and 15 we got 52". Snowblower wont work on that. I honestly wish we could send water to you as last years leaves are still saturated and cant be raked in the middle of June. Crazy. I dont want to look at snow any more either. Guess I wont bother with my a/c for a while or open my windows. Last night set a record low.

Post# 996919 , Reply# 36   6/12/2018 at 00:15 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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As for California detractors, two thoughts come to mind. First, no place--no matter how wonderful--will be perfect for everyone. So people who hate CA can simply stay away.


Also it is easy for those of us who don't live there (and perhaps haven't even visited) to see nothing but the problems, because those problems get discussed to death. But the good features don't seem to get discussed anywhere nearly as often as the problems.




Post# 996920 , Reply# 37   6/12/2018 at 00:24 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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It was better before it got so crowded.


Yes. We know that feeling here in the Pacific Northwest. We miss the days before it got so crowded up here by people moving here from CA! LOL


Post# 996921 , Reply# 38   6/12/2018 at 00:42 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I'm not terribly wild about snow. It can be pretty, and it can be a nice break from endless rain and damp cold. But...I'm neurotic about driving in it, and it can pose practical problems where I am (roads becoming impossible, plus it can result in power failures).


That said...there have been times I've contemplated moving to the eastern part of the state. I'm not sure I'd like dealing with the snow all winter long, but the cost of living is attractive.

Post# 996922 , Reply# 39   6/12/2018 at 00:42 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I recall being in Oregon on a road trip in 1974 and saw lots of cars with bumper stickers that read, ďDonít Californinicate OregonĒ.

Itís never welocme anywhere I guess when the natives see an influx of outsiders that change the way of life for the locals.


Post# 996925 , Reply# 40   6/12/2018 at 01:08 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I don't recall hearing of that bumper sticker before, Eddie, although I'm not surprised by it. There certainly has been real anti-Californian sentiment. One person who came out of CA, and lived in the Seattle area for a period, told me one reason he left was because he was tired of how get treated sometimes.


I'm sure one issue is how crowded the area has gotten, and how the cost of living has gone up. But, at the same time, there have been lots and lots of people who've moved from other places, too, and I don't hear the same sort of vitriolic comments about, say, people from the Midwest who crack and decide they can't stand another cold, snowy winter.


Post# 996969 , Reply# 41   6/12/2018 at 15:19 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
It's a "catch 22" situation

twintubdexter's profile picture

Down a ways from where I live the new Del Webb Rancho Mirage Community is taking shape and homes are already being purchased. This is the third Del Webb development here. When I drive by the first thing I think about is "where is all the additional water going to come from for these 1,026 homes?" Edison can always slap some new power plants together and natural gas doesn't seem to be a current problem, but water is. The Desert has a natural aquifer below the surface. This is where most of our water comes from. More and more water has to be taken from the Colorado River in order to replenish the aquifer. The Colorado River is already strained due to area droughts. It's not like it's a bottomless pit. Add to this the ongoing war between Southern and Northern California. In normal years, the northern half gets far more rainfall than down here, yet millions more people live in Southern California and the climate is much warmer. Many of my hometown (San Jose) friends will point a finger at me and say "Thief! people are stealing our water!" It's not a pleasant situation, and the recent drought only exasperates the turmoil. I guess in the final analysis the problem is just too many people. 


I suppose posting signs would be in poor taste...

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Post# 996970 , Reply# 42   6/12/2018 at 15:47 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        
I suppose posting signs would be in poor taste...

lordkenmore's profile picture

Or one could build a wall like Trump proposes for the Mexican border, instead. LOL

Post# 996971 , Reply# 43   6/12/2018 at 15:49 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
You're correct Joe!

All one needs to do is look at photos of lake Meade before 2005 or so. You can see where the higher water level used to be. They've even had to retrofit the water intakes for the dams hydro plant at a lower depth so they don't draw in air.
I think those Del Web plans all have owner associations, like a condo.
Not a fan of them. My inlaws are selling their condo, as the dues keep increasing, and they don't even pay for the water or taxes like some do. Members often argue and dispute many issues. So they say it will be less expensive to hire out lawn and snow removal service.
Newer styles are so crammed together for more units per acre. I don't like that high of a density housing situation. You hear when your neighbors garage door opens, as they are all beneath living spaces. They look like tenements. Small front porches, no a stoop is all you get.
So do you think Del Web got the idea from Lesiure World? Sun City Arizona?
In the D.C. and northern Virginia areas, they've even built some that are 6 or 8 stories tall, and sprawl out a half mile. Ala' Danzik Poland paneleck fowlowieck style. Larger units of course though. For now.

Man seems to be his own worst enemy. Stop reproducing like rabbits. Or at least live in the green spaces.

Post# 997045 , Reply# 44   6/13/2018 at 07:22 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
re; Colorado river

doesn't even reach it's former delta anymore either.

I'm not one to criticize media too much, even if I disagree with it. By seeing and listening to different news sources, I can "read between the lines" so to speak. Example; I learned of both candidates attending their weddings, their kids are friends, that they know many, many of the same people, whom have lot's and lot's of money, from the same city, same state. Do the math. Makes little difference then which. Whom of those people have more money and power than a president?
Ex; Time Warner and AT&T are merging after all.

Post# 997064 , Reply# 45   6/13/2018 at 14:55 by dylanmitchell (San Diego, CA)        
Fourth generation San Diegan and Californian here

TLDR: California especially Southern California is a very pleasant place to live. We've lived in San Diego for four generations and most of our family still calls San Diego home. The cost of living, home prices, and taxes can make it a challenging place to be but we love it here and plan to stay.

Southern Californian's enjoy one of the most pleasant year-round climates. Within two hours of San Diego are mountains Palomar Mountain at 6,100 ft, Cuyamaca up to 6,500 ft, desert Borrego, tons of beaches, Mammoth is six hours away, Yosemite is 8 hours away. Our semi-arid Mediterranean climate is pleasant year-round and only a handful of cities have a similarly pleasant climate The Canary Islands, Spainís Costa del Sol, Sao Palo, Sydney, Medellin, and Lihue has similarily pleasant year-round climates. We're generally a diverse, tolerant, and multi-culturally oriented. It's progressive and liberal with some pockets of conservatives.
We also have our challenges with affordable housing and the high cost of living. Prop 13 which fixes your homes sale prices as the tax rate plus an increase of up to two percent a year. So you get folks with absurdly low tax bases sitting next to folks with market rate tax bases. Plus businesses are included so you see apartment building or other buildings with very low tax bases.
It's not perfect here and San Diego home prices and cost of living combined with what we call the Sunshine tax or lower wages in San Diego can make life tough. San Diego's wages and cost of living and housing prices are more out of wack than LA or other cities but where the cost of living and homes is high but wages are generally higher.

Post# 997101 , Reply# 46   6/14/2018 at 01:00 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

The last month between when company was here for a week and when we started irrigating and filling the pool, water usage was 4,800 gallons. Divided by 3 people then divide that by 30 days thatís 53 gallons per person per day.

Thatís with two low flow toilets and one 1960s water guzzler American Standard, a water guzzler washer, full flow showerheads, two people that shower every day, and two people that like to flush 2-3 times for every visit to the toilet.

Post# 997102 , Reply# 47   6/14/2018 at 01:40 by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA)        

Things can actually get even worse, here in South Africa Cape Town has been hit by a severe drought for the last three years, water consumption is capped at 85 liter person per day that equates to about 22 gallon (US).

That is very tough, there was even mentioning of it going down to 65 liter per person per day. Here people are steadily changing top loader washers to front loaders and paving your lawns, or plastic lawn. Washing machine water is captured in tanks and is fed to the toilets via a pressure control pump system.

A lot of folks have started getting boreholes, but it is expensive to bore, success is never guaranteed, and the goverment wants to have control over it, but that is a tall order, as not everybody register their boreholes.

So just keep in mind there are even more dryer places than Cali.


Post# 997114 , Reply# 48   6/14/2018 at 06:35 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
That recycling laundry water to flush toilets

in Capetown is ingenious!
Dylan Mitchel, what do you think about the proposal going on the California ballot to split it into 3 states?
One will control most of the water? Will it make you more vulnerable for Mexico to try to take back?
Even if it passes, congress must approve it.
Last time it happened was in 1863 when West Virginia split form Virginia during the civil war.

Post# 997131 , Reply# 49   6/14/2018 at 10:18 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
I call it "The Thor Program for Water Conservation"

twintubdexter's profile picture

If you could wash dishes and clothes together, then why not do laundry in the toilet...prior to using it of course. I see a whole new line of combo washer/commodes as well as conversion adapters. The late Phyllis Diller, talking about her early lean years of living in run-down motels, said she used to "wash the dirty dishes in the toilet". Not my idea of gracious living for sure.

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Post# 997142 , Reply# 50   6/14/2018 at 12:28 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        
Percent Natives for Every State

iowabear's profile picture

Not surprised to see Iowa at #7.


Whenever I meet somebody who isn't from here they almost always say it's because their spouse is and he/she wanted to move back.  Once in a while it's because of a job, but not often.


California is not as low on this list as I would have guessed.  The high cost of living does deter a lot of people I guess.


Post# 997159 , Reply# 51   6/14/2018 at 15:26 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I was interested to see my state (WA) in the 46.9% native range. I'm not surprised. I'm not sure what number I'd have guessed--actually, I hate trying to guess such things because I usually am far off! But it seems like a lot of people whom I know come from some other state. Including myself, although I'm "near native" in that my family moved here really young.



Post# 997160 , Reply# 52   6/14/2018 at 15:33 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I was also interested in the table showing natives in a state 1910-2010. WA was pretty  much the 40% range in recent decades. I'd almost have guessed a higher level of natives at one point, given how much whining there was about Californians moving in.


I suppose, though,  non-natives moving in might think it was OK for anyone to move in. Then, the day after they'd moved in, they'd start thinking anyone moving in would be ruining the state.

Post# 997243 , Reply# 53   6/15/2018 at 12:44 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
San Francisco Drought

I do remember living through the drought in 1986, I believe, in San Francisco. I owned a two unit home and there were 4 people living there. We did no outside watering at all. So the City cut every residence by a fixed percentage, maybe 25%. We had no way to meet this since none of us were wasteful to begin with. I contacted the city to see if we could get a higher allowance and they raised it slightly. Even with that we paid about $40 per month in fines. We did have low flow showers and toilets.

So I remember that and hope that it will not be repeated.

I also have been in California all of my life, first in Martinez then Berkeley and San Francisco. Sacramento has been my home since 1990. It does get hot in the summer compared to the Bay Area. But it is less expensive to live here. We have a pool so that really is a plus. We are near the Mountains and reasonably close to the ocean. The natural beauty of this state really has the features of most of the rest of the country, from deserts to mountains to ocean front. Politically I lean to the Blue, but there is room for all views. Out of the past 8 governors 4 have been republican. It can be expensive to live in California but property taxes are lower than some states. Social security is not taxed. Every state has advantages and disadvantages.

Post# 997256 , Reply# 54   6/15/2018 at 15:10 by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

Water in South Central Texas is becoming a major issue with the exploding population moving-in from other states and Mexico. It's the fastest growing region in the country and water supply runs low in the summer. We are in a drought and have entered Stage 2 water restrictions, no outside watering except one day a week with a sprinkler. We've cut back on indoor use, by running the dishwasher 3-4 times a week and laundry twice a month. The T/L Speed Queen uses a lot of water, esp. if a second rinse is needed. The dishwasher is two years old, KA. Daily showers, sometimes I'll wait and shower at the gym.

I sewed some new grass seed under a large shade tree in the front yard and wetting that down daily to start new grass growth. We have a courtyard in front of the house that I've been working on this year, sort of a project to help me keep my sanity while I take care of my eldery father who has Alzheimer's. The courtyard has been badly neglected over the past 3 years. It has a two tier water fountain that hasn't been used in many, many years and is in sad shape. Thought I would clean it up with muriatic acid and a pressure washer and convert it to solar with a solar conversion kit. I'm having some second thoughts about going forward at this time with the water restrictions, not sure what to do. I'm open to advice here. Going forward, any new plants needs to be drought tolerant. Snakes are a horrible problem this year, must be the drought and hot temps, so I don't want to plant anything that I can't see underneath as the courtyard is not far from the front door. Temp's have been in the low 100's and it's very hot out there with the brick work.

Flushing toilets with grey water is genius, never would have thought of that.


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Post# 997263 , Reply# 55   6/15/2018 at 17:06 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Over here you can reuse grey water on the lawn.

Mum has a divertor valve in the plumbing from the laundry tub, from there a hose runs off to the lawn.

If the washer flow is greater than the hose can manage, the water temporarily backs up in the tub until it clears.

The valve on the drain lefts you switch between the grey water hose and the drain if you have stuff in there you donít want on the lawn. That way even with a top loader you still get to use the water twice

Post# 997292 , Reply# 56   6/16/2018 at 01:00 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

We used to have that exact same fountain in the front yard. I think that came from Loweís.

Post# 997341 , Reply# 57   6/16/2018 at 12:02 by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

Jonathan, do you still have the water fountain? I priced new fountains at a local dealer, mom & pop shop, and they were selling them at $800.00 for a comparable size, I didn't pay that many years ago, so I want to do something with it. Thought about turning it into a planter if water restrictions get worse. Need to do something with it. It's so badly stained.


Post# 997512 , Reply# 58   6/17/2018 at 22:31 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Itís long gone, something happened to it where it was broken beyond use/not worth fixing. I think it was about $200 when we got it.

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