Thread Number: 78108  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New Miele W1 Little Giants
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Post# 1021225   1/14/2019 at 23:53 (2,008 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        

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Here is the first pic of the new Miele Little Giants based on the W1 series domestic range. The model shown has touch screen controls. There are three new models ranging from 6 kg to 8 kg capacity. Wash times around 49 minutes. There are two dryer models, a vented one which dries a load in 38 minutes and a heat-pump which can dry a load in under an hour.

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Post# 1021248 , Reply# 1   1/15/2019 at 10:26 (2,008 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
Debut date? And no don’t lose that button .

I wonder when can we expect them in the US? Shame that they removed the mechanical orange start button , it’s a signature Miele identity .

Post# 1021252 , Reply# 2   1/15/2019 at 10:45 (2,008 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Can't even find a release date for Germany...

Post# 1021253 , Reply# 3   1/15/2019 at 11:06 (2,008 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Yellow button

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On all Miele I have seen opens the door !

Post# 1021256 , Reply# 4   1/15/2019 at 12:26 (2,008 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Miele did away with a door open button day one with the W1 series.

Launchdate for Germany is sometime in April.

2 lines: Performance and Performance plus, 7kg vs 6,7 or 8kg and connectivity.

Post# 1021263 , Reply# 5   1/15/2019 at 14:48 (2,008 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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They look delicious ; )

Post# 1021266 , Reply# 6   1/15/2019 at 15:13 (2,008 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
Is touch screen gonna be so much better now ?

What’s the difference between performance and performance plus ?
Any new internal changes or is it just vanity ?

Post# 1021283 , Reply# 7   1/15/2019 at 17:43 (2,007 days old) by SGT10 (California )        

I can’t imagine the Little Giants getting any better so I hope they don’t change them too much.

When we see that they are “based upon the W1,” I wonder what that means. The Little Giants seem better than the W1s, at least IMO

Post# 1021312 , Reply# 8   1/15/2019 at 22:01 (2,007 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Is there a PDF somewhere or some place we can "read more about it"?

Post# 1021456 , Reply# 9   1/16/2019 at 21:04 (2,006 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Thanks to the mielelovers website

Someone with much sharper eyes shared a photo on Instagram which shows such machines.

That photo is from September 2018 (from ifa)
It shows touchscreen machines and ones with a knob.

Wonder what else about these machines is floating on the internet

Post# 1021469 , Reply# 10   1/16/2019 at 22:56 (2,006 days old) by schulthess (Switzerland)        
I wonder that nobody visiting the IFA saw them

It was me who found the photos on Instagram by coincidence searching for some kitchen design inspirations.

I really do think that the little giants can get better and happy to see the new series.
Compared to a Schulthess or V-Zug washing machine (the ones for multy housing) the Miele PW has dissatisfied me in terms of washing, rinsing and even spinning performance. I still think, that a really fine perforated drum is better for cleaning e.g. flushing out hair, particles or sand than a Miele Honeycomb drum. My laundry done in a V-Zug or Schulthess comes out with less wrinkles and dryer . Good that they added additional holes in the back of the drum and I hope that the wash and rinse rhythm in the cottons cycle will be more vigorous, which is needed to clean laundry in less time besides a good heating capacity.

Post# 1021477 , Reply# 11   1/17/2019 at 02:05 (2,006 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Are those them behind the man?

Post# 1021547 , Reply# 12   1/18/2019 at 00:12 (2,005 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
So they do have knobs and buttons?

How different is performance plus vs performance?

It’s odd that no other companies will create an equivalent version to compete against Miele’s Little Giants.

Post# 1021556 , Reply# 13   1/18/2019 at 06:29 (2,005 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
If you're speaking of North American market

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Likely no one will take on Miele's Little Giant washers at least for the electrical power requirements. As Miele itself learned when they finally gave in and began producing 120v washers for sale here, Americans just aren't going to spend the money for rewiring when they can get a perfectly good washer that doesn't require.

Miele can spread production costs of their Little Giants across a world wide market. So even if there are only small number of sales in North American everything balances out.

Post# 1021643 , Reply# 14   1/18/2019 at 23:06 (2,004 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

The USA is Miele's LARGEST market outside of Germany. It's not like the USA is a minor market for Miele. The Little Giants are "Semi-Pro" models. The true professional models are designed for 30,000 hours of use and for a commercial only setting. The little giants were always designed for high end residential or small commercial.

Their only real competitor is Electrolux for the same capability and build quality. Electrolux professional is vastly better build quality compared to their residential machines.

Take a look at the line 6000 dryers that were just released:

The washers will be released later this year. They look just as good as the current Miele models. The smartphone connected models look really interesting. I did some research and Electrolux is building a fully integrated monitoring system for their machines. They will report on total energy used, water used, etc. Reports faults immediately so they can be dealt with. I almost think Electrolux has somewhat leapfrogged Miele in this area on the professional side.

If I had an on-prem laundry fleet or ran a Laundromat these new systems would allow me to better track my costs and know which cycles were most in use, when the busiest times of the day were, etc. All of this from a smartphone app.

Post# 1021692 , Reply# 15   1/19/2019 at 12:06 (2,004 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
USA/North America Might Be Miele's Largest Market

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Outside of Germany, but they remain a relatively small player in the appliance market here.

Electrolux, Whirlpool, and lately LG sell far more laundry appliances than Miele.

Miele USA lacks a serious nationwide service network for a start. Meaning if you live far from (or in some cases even relatively near) a major urban area like NYC, LA, SF, Boston, etc... you can be waiting a very long time for a call out. Worse if the technician does not have the part(s) required he must send to Princeton, NJ. Heaven help if part isn't in stock there either as it must come from Germany.

Miele has steadfastly refused to open production plants in USA. LG, Bosch, Electrolux and of course Whirlpool all have manufacturing in USA. Now that White Swan owns GE who knows where that will lead.

Post# 1021704 , Reply# 16   1/19/2019 at 14:19 (2,004 days old) by SGT10 (California )        

I think Miele is a privately-owned company and therefore doesn’t face the same pressure to grow as it would as a public company. It remains iconoclastic and Teutonic, and at least the US branch doesn’t bow to consumer pressure on many issues. I like many of their washing machines, but sometimes feel like a chump for spending so much on them. I was pretty happy with my old Maytag Neptune (pre-Whirlpool acquisition). It has outlasted several Miele’s, although doesn’t have the plethora of cycles and options.

Post# 1021716 , Reply# 17   1/19/2019 at 15:55 (2,004 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
The little giant washer design

The design is so appealing . It has the performance credentials to match it . Washers are one of the few appliances I can take with me if I move .

What does the new Electrolux look like ?

Post# 1021717 , Reply# 18   1/19/2019 at 16:14 (2,004 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Back when front loading "compact" washers pretty much were only Miele, Bosch, and Creda things were different. Unless willing to go with a Westinghouse, you had to deal with one of the named three.

However things have changed and North Americans have vastly more choices for H-axis washers. Miele has been stubbornly slow in adapting IMHO, and that cost them market share.

It wasn't until just a few years ago they finally realized 208v-240v service is *NOT* as widely distributed and or can be accessed as Miele hoped and or thought. Persons being asked to pay over one thousand for a washing machine often balked at paying an equal sum (or more) to put in the required wiring where it didn't exist.

While Miele appliances are wonderful when they are running, again heaven help you when they don't. Initial contact with Miele's customer service here seems to espouse all the not so nice traits persons attribute to Germans.

What did you do to the machine? No, it can't be doing *that*, you are doing something wrong...." When a repair person finally does confirm the thing *is* doing what you said it was (after a wait of two or more weeks for a call out), you'll likely be told another appointment must be made to fix the appliance. This can be again two or more weeks away. Meanwhile you've spend huge sums for an appliance that is sitting broken.

It's like buying a BMW or Mercedes then having to deal with the thing being laid up in repair shop more than on road.

Unlike say Europe where spares can be had from many sources, for North America Miele insists on keeping everything under their control. You basically can only get Miele parts by either going through them (MieleUSA), or trying your luck shopping in Europe by internet or whatever.

Because Miele won't supply parts and other things required for "non authorized" service men to work on their machines, few want the hassle and bother. Though IIRC Miele recently opened a service center here in NYC, but don't know if they are part of that company or independent.

Post# 1021719 , Reply# 19   1/19/2019 at 16:19 (2,004 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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I'm not so sure the "electrical requirements" of a Miele washer is all that important.

That's because Miele sells a setup where both the washer and dryer can run on a single 220 volt split phase American dryer outlet. Electric dryers seem to account for 50% or more of American home installations, after all.

More likely it's the smaller capacity of the traditional Miele that turns off some buyers - as well as the significantly higher price.

As for Electrolux, I like very much their front loaders, but they have poor market penetration in part due to the fact that they can be quite hard to locate in shops here. I like their washer because it seems to be the only front loading washer on the market with a reversible door. (I have a tight laundry closet where the washer must go to the right of the dryer). Their build quality seems OK to me, above average for washers for the American home market.

Post# 1021723 , Reply# 20   1/19/2019 at 16:39 (2,004 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Was referring to the 208v-240v connection in general

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Not every home has such electrical service in their laundry area, especially when it came to urban settings where it meant apartments.

Miele lost many sales here in NYC because even residents of our very best white glove buildings found their requests to upgrade electrical service denied.

Or course if one owns one's own home as in a house or something besides multifamily that is something else.

Often what it came down to is that due to age of housing stock it wasn't just a matter of upgrading a meter. But replacing a fuse box *with* a meter and pulling up wiring to handle the increased loads from basement panel. This was if things could be supported without having local utility run a new line from street to panel.

We've had this discussion previously; you have multifamily housing here where units barely have 100 amp service. That and there hasn't been any significant upgrading of electrical service since building went up ranging from early part of last century to the 1960's.

Salesmen at local Miele dealers would tell of deals they thought were done, only to have customers either return the Mieles for something else, or cancel entirely because of issues getting proper electrical service installed.

Post# 1021728 , Reply# 21   1/19/2019 at 18:10 (2,003 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
208v -240 v setup for washer

This setup should essential for washers. I know it’s expensive but It keeps whites whiter , hygienic , and many other clothes cleaner . Most of clothes I keep for a long time

Post# 1021781 , Reply# 22   1/20/2019 at 00:42 (2,003 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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A lot of multi-family housing buildings have shared laundry facilities anyway.

Post# 1021820 , Reply# 23   1/20/2019 at 09:21 (2,003 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

"I still think, that a really fine perforated drum is better for cleaning e.g. flushing out hair, particles or sand than a Miele Honeycomb drum."

I have to say that I agree.

I have a Panasonic (Gorenje made), which has a drum with very few holes in it. I notice that fluff, hairs and lint have a tendency to remain in the drum. Even small pools or puddles of water in the drum are reluctant to drain away. It probably doesn't help with rinsing or spin efficiency either.

On the other hand, I do think that drums with thousands of holes are probably the better bet.

Post# 1021843 , Reply# 24   1/20/2019 at 13:09 (2,003 days old) by SGT10 (California )        

How many drain holes are enough? I think the Little Giant already has around 1000. I have noticed any issues with water or debris left in machine. IMO it offers superior cleaning performance, although I certainly have not observed all of the brands mentioned here. The main issues are its electrical requirements and its cost. Of course, a better made machine will cost more to make. But what proportion of the cost is due to Germany’s work rules and regulations and social policies? When one buys a Miele one is also paying those costs.

Post# 1021878 , Reply# 25   1/20/2019 at 18:16 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Whatever reasons Miele and others give in their marketing materials and elsewhere about benefits of "Honeycomb" drum and or smaller holes leave us have no delusions. One large (if not main) purpose is that those smaller holes keep more water inside main basket as opposed to between. It is about close to solid tub washers of old as they are going to get.

OTOH in commercial laundries you have "sluice" washing machines where inner basket has large (or decent sized) holes in order to allow solids, muck, vomit and other debris to freely exit and flush down drains.

In fact even on commercial washers of old (and maybe modern for all one knows) you don't find any of this pin sized holes in drum nonsense. It is just unsanitary.

This is why you can load say the Braun machine shown here with poopy diapers and or other laundry contaminated with solids and have things come out hygienically clean.

Post# 1021890 , Reply# 26   1/20/2019 at 20:09 (2,002 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
Small holes to reduce frailling of the fabrics

I think at one time miele’s marketing team claimed that the honeycomb drum reduces the frailling of the fabrics.

Post# 1021897 , Reply# 27   1/20/2019 at 22:14 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Small holes to reduce frailling of the fabrics

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Well they would say that wouldn't they?

When you have cycles that go on for 1.5, 2 or more hours yes, am sure some sort of mitigation against textile damage must be instigated.

OTOH commercial washers (and some old domestics) can crank out full loads ranging from eleven pounds (domestic) to several hundred (commercial) in anywhere from just less than one hour to in about 35 minutes. The latter is mostly commercial machines however.

It all comes down to the wash "pie" for optimal results; chemicals, time, mechanical action and water used. Any decrease in one results in a required increase in others to compensate.

So these "honeycomb" washers use less water, fair enough I suppose. But they still have to get things clean. So cycle time is increased which again means beating washing about for long periods of time.

Post# 1021905 , Reply# 28   1/21/2019 at 01:05 (2,002 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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It doesn't make sense to me that the honeycomb drum would retain more water than a more perforated drum. That's because the water is introduced from outside the drum, and gets into the drum through the holes.

Or am I missing something?

Also, poopy diapers aside, the place where most larger debris is removed from fabrics is in the dryer, not in the washer.

And poopy diapers are supposed to be flushed out prior to loading in the washer anyway. I remember my mom dunking them in the toilet and sticking them back into a wet pail for the journey down to the Bendix front loader in the basement.

Post# 1021909 , Reply# 29   1/21/2019 at 01:58 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Patent for Miele's honeycomb drum:

If by "larger debris" you mean hair or whatever, maybe so for residential settings.

OTOH for commercial/industrial laundries things are different. First and foremost not every wash load will go to the dryers for "larger debris" removal.

It would also be questionably hygienic not to mention visually repulsive to have bits of vomit, faeces and other matter "dried" onto fabrics and or contaminate that machine as residue. Have read online reviews of laundromats where customers found dried bits of faeces in tumble dryers before putting their freshly washed laundry. Needless to say it put them right off and while having to get the job done, obviously chose another machine.

What someone choses to do in their own home in regards to soiled linen obviously is influenced by many factors. OTOH if you think a commercial/industrial laundry is going to manually sluice/pre-rinse scores if not hundreds of pounds of washing per hour or day; think on.

Not even sure various local, federal, union or accrediting bodies allow such a thing.

Before Chux, disposable diapers and other such things came along hospitals, nursing homes and other facilities dealt with far more fouled laundry because diapers and draw cloths were washed and reused. This on top of soiled patient gowns, bed and bath linen. Linen from infectious wards/rooms, OR and so forth is what it is.

Post# 1021914 , Reply# 30   1/21/2019 at 03:39 (2,002 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Since when does a commercial laundry setting have time not to tumble dry everything???

Miele has like 3 different machine iron dry settings on their commercial machines.

And even the through-load-style machines have the same honeycomb style drum.

It is true that certain soils have certain solids in them that would not pass through small holes.
But I would never trust any washer with such loads if I'd need extra machines to be abled to trust them.
Loads of laundry are just have to many nooks and pickets for such stuff to be cought in.
Such stuff is removed prior to washing.
As someone who has stomach issues knows that from experience...

And on householdmachines:
Most machines oftoday have recirculation systems. And as someone has mentioned these issues even with a machine with recirc, the whole aregument is moot point.
And using machines with normal or even more then normal hole count one can say that from a certain point on, fibres are still just as much of an issue.

Post# 1021915 , Reply# 31   1/21/2019 at 03:44 (2,002 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
But on another note

Would be really interested in the new dryers.

Up to now, all dryers on the commercial side were basicly what Miele marketed as "Twin Power" on their first heatpump dryers for home use: Machines with 2 full motors (blower and drum).

If they still use that setup that would be interesting to see what the usage would be like.
And if they just use one large one speed heatpump orif they might actually use an inverter heatpump.
And what that new filter looks like.

Post# 1021916 , Reply# 32   1/21/2019 at 04:48 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Ideally since arrival of extractors

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Things should come out of a (commercial) washer (or extractor if separate machine) dry enough to go straight to ironers if that is their ultimate destination. Remember the process of ironing does dry materials, it just depends upon how damp they are for a start.

Now there has been and still is a debate among "laundrymen" about the value of pre-conditioning flatwork and other goods to be sent to ironers by sending them through dryers first.

Some of this is because a dryer will break apart and otherwise fluff and loosen what can be a hard mass of extracted laundry. In old days they had (or still do for all I know) workers called "shakers" who took flatwork and other wash from machines and shook, unfolded and otherwise separated the mass which came out of washers/extractors. Another way of dealing with this was with a machine called a "tumbler" which did just that, but didn't dry.

There is considerable energy and time savings to be gained if wash can go directly from extractor (or washer) to ironer. But only if goods are evenly moist enough for proper ironing that the machine doesn't have to run slowly to evaporate excessive water.

With nearly fully automated laundries built around continuous batch washers (tunnel washers) you tend to see even linen going to be ironed sent to dryers first. Again this is because the extractor of tunnel washer doesn't leave things dry enough for fast ironing, and they emerge in a flat mass pancake.

Here from Kannegiesser (at about 5:40) you can see again linens coming from dryer and sent to an automated ironing/folding.

Same in Spain:

Couldn't find examples in video, so links to print will have to suffice.

From below you see what one has been saying; the dryers are used more to "pre-condition" the linen (breaking apart the hard mass that comes from washer/extractor) then fully drying.

Post# 1021926 , Reply# 33   1/21/2019 at 08:16 (2,002 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?

Post# 1021931 , Reply# 34   1/21/2019 at 08:46 (2,002 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The little giants were always ment as a broad band solution.

You will find these over here anywhere from doctor offices to laundromats to multi housing units to commercial laundry setups.
Though you'll often find the washers paired with larger dryers the more commercial the setting gets.

They are basicly used anytime the amount of laundry you do is "household-sized" but the usage is high.

Post# 1021938 , Reply# 35   1/21/2019 at 11:42 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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"Is the topic of this thread, the new Miele "LIttle Giant" W1 washer, intended primarily for residential or commercial usage?"

Well answer to your query comes from where Miele markets the machines; and that would be as part of their professional series.

Best case they are very high grade OPL solutions for domestic users who want something more than what from the residential line.

Post# 1021946 , Reply# 36   1/21/2019 at 12:40 (2,002 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Our family of thirteen, soon to be fourteen, people would love to have the step up from the Little Giants (PW6080 or PW5105 for washer and PT7186 for dryer), but Miele refuses to sell them in a residential setting. There are ways around this, but for the average person it is not doable.

We do 5-7 loads (sometimes more) a day. We are using residential W1/T1 machines and they are doing fine, but I will bet dollars to donuts that they won't last the five year warranty period. I'm guessing the extended warranty WILL be used.

The Miele sales rep in Princeton that I got quotes on commercial equipment from said they had a LOT of businesses buying the W4840 and W4842 to use in a commercial setting. Said he knew of thousands that went to gyms and were used for towel duty. They bought these instead of the commercial models due to cost. Miele still honored the warranty, but lost money due to all of the service needed on the machines. They would be in use almost all day and night. That coupled with all of the little issues homeowners were seeing and I can understand why they wanted to pull out of that market.

We got 15,700 hours out of our W4840 before it died. We paid $1800 for the washer. The commercial model of the same capacity is three times the cost, yet if the average residential unit made it to 15,000 hours the business owner would come out ahead since two residential washers would last as long as a commercial unit. If said Spa, Gym, etc. had five washers and five dryers this turns into real cash.

I took my kids up to a waterpark in the Wisconsin Dells four or so years ago and they had Miele W4842 and T9802 pairs sitting in a room near the pools. Staff were feeding the "free" towels into them constantly. They did express washes, dried them and put them back on the "Free Towel" rack. So I have personally seen this being done. They also had a Large, probably 50lb or larger, washer in there that I assume they used when they got backed up. We went on a weekday when it was not so busy.

Post# 1021952 , Reply# 37   1/21/2019 at 13:34 (2,002 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Over years have seen at least two or three

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Little Giant sets on offer (CL) at practically give away prices.

Story was same; people somehow got their mitts on the things, had the required electrical work and whatever else needed for installation..... now are moving house but not taking the units.

It largely comes down to the electrical requirements for washer I suppose. If not many Americans bothered with the 208v-240v connection needed for a compact unit, having to double or triple that (not sure) for the Little Giant washer surely wasn't going to fly.

For the OPL laundry market and or small dry cleaners/laundries Miele washing machines long have been popular. No American manufacture offers the same build quality, cycle choices and so forth, especially at those price points. If you want something with built in heating then Miele might be the only way to go; unless of course you have a steam line or something.

Post# 1021979 , Reply# 38   1/21/2019 at 20:08 (2,001 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
Buying at non retail price

Finding a little giant washer is hard. I’m in Seattle it this helps . Any tips or experiences?

Post# 1022077 , Reply# 39   1/22/2019 at 17:01 (2,001 days old) by Moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Just call Miele directly in Princeton, NJ and ask to speak to sales. They will sell directly to you on any little giant model. They usually discount some to offset the cost of shipping. If they don’t then ask for a discount. Worst they can say is no.

Post# 1022122 , Reply# 40   1/22/2019 at 23:59 (2,000 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
W1 over the little giants


With 14 people household , that’s a lot of laundry . Why was the w1purchased over the little giant ?

Post# 1022164 , Reply# 41   1/23/2019 at 11:21 (2,000 days old) by Moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Little Giant is smaller than W1 capacity wise, cost and we plan to build a house this year. We run a commercial farm so can purchase the larger octopus models without issue. The w1 was always intended as an interim solution, but we really like them. The TwinDos option is now the only way we dispense detergent.

We are now considering two or three sets of w1/t1 vs the pro line. They work that well. We usually have lots of loads that just fill a w1 cycle. Towels, whites, colors and undies. If we could do two or three loads at the same time and have proper sorting, that really speeds things up.

Post# 1022434 , Reply# 42   1/25/2019 at 14:07 (1,998 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Press release

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Post# 1025014 , Reply# 43   2/18/2019 at 14:13 (1,974 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

After writing Alex (logixx) an E-Mail commenting on the direction Miele is heading in I thought to myself: "Hey, you know your buisness, check the Miele manual data bases!"

First I checked on the 7000 line for home appliances.

Found some new lowest-end G7000 models (still as efficent, same cycles and options, still same interior design, just no touch interface - scrolling through cycles with a button - and no AutoDos), found exactly 2 oven manuals (both MOL non pyrolytic, so nothing interesting) and some verry interesting looking hobs (full flex induction for up to 6 pots at a time).

But overall, not much.

So, the new little giants were next.

The start was somewhat rough as my usual search tricks returned so many results the site crashed.

But, after some fideling, I found the first machine (I searched for EL AV manuals, so only professional machines heated with electricity and a drain valve showed up).

And from that one on, I hit the checkpot:
I saw that that first machine had the shorthand ANL in its title, and that usually shouldn't be there.

So I searched for ANL and BINGO.

Ok, the manuals that are online are anything but finished, however they already show lots of verry interesting things.

First of, dryers are PTE and PDR now, washers PWE and PWM now.
Professioneller Trockner Elektrisch and Professional Dryer
or respectivley
Professionelle Waschmaschine Elektrisch and Professional Washing Machine.

Color codes are LW for "Lotus Weiß"/"Lotus White" respectivley and "ED" or "SST" for "Edelstahl" or "Stainless Steel".

Dryers are either HP/WP for HeatPump/Wärmepumpe or EL/AB for Electric/Abluft.
Washers are either DP/LP for DrainPump/LaugenPumpe or DV/AV for DrainValve/AblaufVentil.

Some were labeled D, some CH and some not at all, so those are probably country shorthands.

Some had an MAR which probaly means marine versions.

Two dryers had an 208/240 behind them, one being HP and EL.

One washer had an 63.5l in the name, that could either be the usage or the drum volume.

A washer and a dryer were labeled QSR. The washer manual wasn't avaible, but the dryer had a mid-range UI setup, so that is probably that, though no idea what QSR could stand for.

Many machines did not have a trim level asigned, but from what I can figure out there is Performance, Performance Plus, Evolution or Advanced.
The 63.5l was labeld Perf.P, so most likely PerfPlus (which often got cut down to Performance Plu).
There was also a Hygiene tag on and those machines only had disinfection cycles as additional programms.

I'll attach 2 screenshots showing all the model numbers.

So, what I have learned.

First of, for WHAT EVER REASON they have cap dosing on the washers and fragrance thingy on the dryers.

They have 2 label cycles, one triangle-thingy label cycle (the normal energy rating cycle accoding to EU law) and a Pro label cycle.
The manuals a verry vague about that. Only thing is that the load consists 50 50 of cotton and polyester, it is called the "Professional Label cycle" and that it does apparently have an EN paragraph, but no number yet.

No usage data is filled out.

All the dryers I chekced had a 130l drum.
I only saw 7kg and 8kg washers.

There are 3 UI layouts from what I saw.
One is cycle selector dial plus small touchscreen.
One is just small touchscreen (that was the QSR dryer).
One is large M-Touch touchscreen.

No recirculation pump.

Apparently 1600rpm.

Many cycles, many options (pre wash, pre rinse, intensive, soak [its 10min long], water plus, extra rinse, starch stop, rinse hold, pre ironing), depending on model of course.

Many setup options in terms of cycle modification (stuff like which parameters are selectable or which are displayed during a cycle, you can alternate all water levels, temperaturs, fills, rinse numbers and levels, timings etc.).

Overall I would dare to say they could be really nice, like impressivley good.

Just the pricing will be interesting.

But I will keep searching the archives for more!

On a side note:
There were some model numbers in that long list that seemed odd and unfamiliar.
For example, the WWE360. A PW2.0 8kg machine with SingleWash, but only 1400rpm and limited cycle selection.
Or a WCG170 (no manual).
Or some old numbers the internet knows next to nothing about like a W677 EcoSilence (apparently a toploader).
But most odd I found these machines on the third screenshot. 2 of those had manuals, apparently for the same machine, I think a first gen PW model with steam finish.
Just odd...

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 1025023 , Reply# 44   2/18/2019 at 16:22 (1,974 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Some more cross refference searching

OK, so, they lied at least a bit.

By checking some keywords seperatly, I found some more information.

Some machines do have Cotton Eco cycles, some have Cotton Pro and some have both.
Cotton Pro apparently is a verry efficent 60C cycle for normaly soiled mixed loads which is shorter then the true Eco cycle.
A washer with usage data (PWM 507, 7kg) is rated A+++ on the EU label scale. They do in fact have 1600rpm. The eco rating cycles do take 3 hours and use obscenly little water.
But even the normal cycles are pretty efficent. True 60C cottons with 2 rinses takes only uses 49l, 0.98kWh and 59min from cold fill.
At 40C usage drops to 0.55kWh, everything else stays the same.
A boil wash is done in under 90min with 57l and only 2kWh.

Some other manuals I found do have usage data in them as well.
The vented dryers are fast (and wastefull).
The heatpump dryer that had usage data in it even had a true EU rating. It was the matching dryer to the 507 washer, the 507 dryer. Rating is A++, A class condensing, 92min for a full load and 59min for a half load.
However, the cycle time table clearly shows that a 7kg load spun at 1600rpm from the companion dryer takes 71min. 71min is longer than an hour.
Ts ts.

There are mop versions as well already.

Further searching also reveled a PWM906.
(So, keep in mind I am writing this tag-on post as I am searching and reading.)

It is almost embarassing to admit how long it took me to realize that the last digit of the model number indicates the capacity.
PWM906 has 6kg, PWM907 has 7kg, PWM908 has 8kg.
Also interesting: The full touchscreen models allow you to create up to 5 individual cycles with up to 7 blocks each.

These machines also allow you to activate and deactive load sensing at will as well as something called "Controlled Energy Usage". On the boilwash, colours and easy care cycle, that option ensures the most energy efficent operation if it is activated. Probably something along the lines of not reheating the wash water 2min before the wash ends.

Oh, and as a side note if you should ever happen to use such a machine: All codes are default to 000. I would suppose many people just don't bother to change that code.

Post# 1035248 , Reply# 45   6/13/2019 at 13:23 (1,859 days old) by Tompw60 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        
PWM Little Giants in UK

Hi there

just read through the whole thread.

when do the Professional PWM series washers and dryers come on sale in the UK?

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