Thread Number: 78345  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
J.C. Penny to Stop Selling Home Appliances
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Post# 1023765   2/6/2019 at 13:07 (1,850 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

J.C. Penney to stop selling major home appliances


Jordyn Holman and Matt Townsend




J.C. Penney plans to stop selling major appliances as new CEO Jill Soltau overhauls the troubled department store chain.




The retailer will also end sales of furniture in U.S. stores and will sell the category online. These changes take effect on Feb. 28, the company said Wednesday.

Soltau, who stepped into the role in October, began a mission to streamline the 116-year-old retailer, closing underperforming stores and clearing out slow-moving goods to kick-start sales and improve margins. The company made the move to “better meet customer expectations, improve financial performance and drive profitable growth,” it said in a statement.

“Optimizing the allocation of store space will enable us to prioritize and focus on the company’s legacy strengths in apparel and soft home furnishings, which represent higher margin opportunities,” it said.

Alex Arnold, a managing director of the consumer practice at investment bank Odeon Capital, said he wasn’t surprised by the move.

“Penney’s was trying to throw their hat in that ring, but it doesn’t jive with the DNA of the company as customers think about it,” he said.

Former CEO Marvin Ellison had led the move into appliances in 2016, and the strategy was costly to implement because the company had to train employees or hire new ones who could sell the products. The idea was to fill the void left by Sears Holdings Corp., which hadn’t yet filed for bankruptcy but was already reining in store count.

But J.C. Penney wasn’t alone. Home Depot Inc. and Lowe’s Cos. expanded their appliance offerings, and even Bloomingdale’s jumped into the market late last year -- adding some high-end LG Electronics Inc. products, like refrigerators and washing machines.

J.C. Penney would eventually push appliances into about 600 stores. Meanwhile, furniture, including couches and bedroom sets, was being sold in about 100 locations. It’s now pulling most furniture, except from select Puerto Rico stores. Mattresses will continue to be available in more than 450 physical locations, it said.

Trent Kruse, J.C. Penney’s head of investor relations, said on a conference call with analysts in November that appliances were among product categories that underperformed in the third quarter.

J.C. Penney shares pared earlier losses and were little changed at $1.35 at 11:34 a.m. in New York. The stock has dropped about 20 percent since Oct. 15 when Soltau came on as CEO.

Same-store sales, a key gauge of a retailer’s health, slumped 5.4 percent in the three months that ended Nov. 3, far worse than the 0.8 percent decline projected by analysts.

Post# 1023774 , Reply# 1   2/6/2019 at 13:50 (1,850 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I haven't been to the JCP at "the mall" in the larger shopping-city down the way in years ... have not seen the appliance dept since it came back into being.† They have an occasional appliance circular distributed via the newspaper there.

Post# 1023775 , Reply# 2   2/6/2019 at 13:58 (1,850 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Not surprised JCP has decided to jettison major appliances. Seemed like an odd strategy in this day and age.

I continue to buy all my clothes (save for black Dockers) and undergarments from JPC online, so am hoping they hang in there. I know how everything fits me, so clothes shopping is a breeze.

Post# 1023778 , Reply# 3   2/6/2019 at 14:46 (1,850 days old) by Whatsername (Denver, CO)        

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That was quick.

Post# 1023787 , Reply# 4   2/6/2019 at 16:29 (1,850 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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Wow - they hardly gave it a chance.  Doesn't sound like there will be any bargains as this article from the Dallas Morning News states they didn't actually own any inventory outside the display models in the stores.



"Penney owns all the appliances that are in its stores, but not the appliances it sells. Customer purchases are filled by the manufacturers: GE, Samsung, LG and Frigidaire. The way the contract was structured, Penney needed high sales volumes to make it worthwhile."


Post# 1023802 , Reply# 5   2/6/2019 at 17:57 (1,850 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

Never saw an appliance department in the JCPenney here. I do remember receiving some flyers in the mail, but it wasn't an often thing.

Post# 1023846 , Reply# 6   2/7/2019 at 05:45 (1,849 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Appliances at Jean Claude Penny's never even seemed expected in the 70s when I last saw them. Even housewares at Penny's seemed an awkward fit with some flowery slow cooker stuck in with the linens. I always saw it as more of a soft goods store than a full department store.


When I was under the delusion that I wanted to live in Florida, I started buying clothes at Penny's and some sheets once and liked what I bought, but then Florida went maniacally republican and I began recovering from the grief over my brother's death and the Penny's near me closed so that was the end of that.


Penny's was smart not to stock appliances. If you go to buy a Miele, the store does not stock or deliver it, but offers concierge service of arranging delivery and installation but providing neither.  Even when I bought mine, and they were floor models at the end of the model run, standard practice was that dealers would arrange the sale, but the goods were delivered from New Jersey. Both stores deducted the delivery charges from New Jersey on the machines.

Post# 1023873 , Reply# 7   2/7/2019 at 10:51 (1,849 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

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When I was in college (more years ago than I care to recall, LOL) I worked at JCP in their shoe department. That was back in the glory days of department stores. JCP sold clothing, furniture, electronics (TVs and stereos,) small appliances and housewares and major appliances. Appliances were their own Penncrest or JCPenny brand, just as Sears only sold Kenmore in those days. Washers and dryers were sourced from Hotpoint and vacuums from Hoover. They sold just about anything you could imagine except for food and gasoline. And of course, their catalog rivaled Sears'.

Post# 1023876 , Reply# 8   2/7/2019 at 11:17 (1,849 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I should have stated that when I shopped at Penny's, it was late 80s, early 90s, long after the catalog days and sadly, decades after their Treasure Island experiment. We loved our Treasure Island store. Of sad note, but noteworthy still, the TI closest to us was, supposedly, the first store of the Home Depot chain.

Post# 1023881 , Reply# 9   2/7/2019 at 12:07 (1,849 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Have never seen Penny's as anything except a clothing retailer. They used to sell "nicer" things. Now it is mostly trash. Once in a great while my wife or daughter will find a nice dress, but the mens department has been poor for a LONG time.

Macy's and Nordstrom's are "ok" if I need something in a pinch, but I have started buying most of my pants and shirts from Brooks Brothers and there is very noticeable difference in quality. If I HAVE to shop at Macy's then I will usually look for something from Ralph Lauren or Tommy Hilfiger. I won't pay full price, but if it's end of season and there is a Macy's coupon or some such, then it's an "ok" deal.

Penny's house brand stuff is no better quality than Target or Kohl's. Both of those latter stores tend to be in better shape than Penny's as well. Our two local Penny's haven't seen a facelift in probably 25-30 years.

It used to be you could find a Harris Tweed jacket or some nicer sweaters/shirt's at Penny's, but I have not see that in a LONG time. It's all teeny bopper wear once or twice and its junk stuff.

My wife get's most of my kids school uniform stuff from Lands End, GAP or Old Navy. When my now 19 year old daughter started school we got a lot from Penny's. Now they don't even sell that stuff anymore.

Last paragraph removed by webmaster due to forum rules violation. Please see forum rules here:

Post# 1023889 , Reply# 10   2/7/2019 at 14:30 (1,849 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I do recall when JCP had their Penncrest appliance line, although at the time I didn't recognize it being rebadged Hotpoint/GE.† The dept was on the 2nd floor ... up the escalator, head forward a ways then turn to the left.† Major appliances on the left (I was shooed away by salespeeps a few times, LOL), TVs/audio on the right.

My first component stereo system (MCS) was from JCP in 1978.† I still have and occasionally (rarely) use the turntable.

Post# 1023923 , Reply# 11   2/7/2019 at 19:49 (1,849 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

Actually, JCPenney still had the catalog through the 80s and 90s. I know they had it at least until 2007 if not later, I remember seeing them for sale in the stores.

I too have always seen them as a softlines store though. The only hardlines the JCPenney here sells are small appliances, luggage and vacuum cleaners. And they added a toy section a while ago.

Since the JCPenney reopened here after Hurricane Irma, it seemed that the items for sale tend to have scaled back from formal wear. To where a lot of it is thin t-shirts and lower end/lower price items like t-shirts or shorts, even in the winter when you'd expect to see more coats, sweaters and flannels. They still sell that stuff, it just seems like the lightweight cheap stuff is what they stock more of.

I used to prefer JCPenney's Stafford dress shirts because they breathe well and launder well also. But the latest ones I have gotten about two years ago seemed thin and very stuffy to wear.

Post# 1023932 , Reply# 12   2/7/2019 at 21:15 (1,848 days old) by Kate1 (PNW)        

I know for a fact that Penneyís had their catalog well into the mid to late nineties, my siblings and I got ALL of our school clothes every single year from that catalog. I distinctly remember that giant phone book sized catalog and then picking up our order at the local store and having our portrait taken at the same time. My mother bought all of her own clothes from them as well as towels, sheets, curtains, etc. for the house. I never knew they carried appliances though, i donít think the store here ever carried them (they may have way back when before the mall was built and they were a freestanding department store, I should ask my parents if they remember). It would be nice if I could buy my kids clothing at Penneyís and carry on the tradition, the quality just isnít what I like though. I get most of their things from Landís End, Primary, Hanna Andersson, and LL Bean. My husband and I get most of our things from LL Bean, Duluth Trading Company, and Landís End. For nicer things I like Boden but theyíre pricy. I donít mind spending a little more for clothing because I keep our wardrobes very minimalistic and with a large family, the kids all pass things down to the younger ones when they outgrow them.

Post# 1023935 , Reply# 13   2/7/2019 at 22:44 (1,848 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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What weíre seeing is a history repeating itself, only this time thereís still Sears but no Wardís...

(& for the record, wondering what got removed from a previous Post, & why... Obscinity or profanity?)

ó Dave

Post# 1023951 , Reply# 14   2/8/2019 at 02:36 (1,848 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        
Our two local Penny's haven't seen a facelift in pro

I thought they did all the stores.  My local Penny's went substantially up-scale a few years back with the remodel, marble floors through out, up-scale lighting, new racking, better layout. 


I do a moderate amount of shopping at Penny's, I hit the clearance racks at the end of the season, got Docker and Izod shirts for $5-8, they hold up well.  Never shop at Macy's, priced too high for what the product is and I was a long term employee of Hudson's ( Marshal Fields later on...) they took over.  Plus, I resent the demise of the regional stores that had a unique character.


Appliances never seemed a good fit at Penny's, the department was never staffed when I walked through, they did have a nice assortment of products, but so does everyone else.  They brought nothing to the table.


Post# 1023974 , Reply# 15   2/8/2019 at 10:15 (1,848 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

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Yeah, they were only interested in trying to get a little of the mall-based appliance business which Sears had/has and they brought nothing to the table. In the old-days, they never had appliances through the catalogue, only in metropolitan clusters of stores (and almost never in the old pre-1950s stores even if those were in metro areas). They did sell appliances at the JCP at the Palm Springs Mall (wouldn't have thought that store big enough). Likewise with furniture, in metro stores (but not every metro area---they were thin in some cities in the 80s/90s).

Post# 1023985 , Reply# 16   2/8/2019 at 11:52 (1,848 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

I don't see why my post was removed? I mentioned that JC Penny went downhill due to their homosexual ads on Mother's Day and Father's day in 2012. Many newspapers said this was the exact reason Ron Johnson was sacked. He refused to acknowledge that this is what caused a 50% drop on their stock share price in a six month period. They have never fully recovered from this as evidenced by all of the things they are trying (Appliances, Stores within Penny's like Sephora, Coffee Bars, Every Day Value items, etc.) Why is this considered homophobic, etc?

I made no slurs or other derogatory attacks. I stated that this was the reason our family stopped shopping their as well. How can stating facts that the secular media reported and that we, as a family also agree with, be considered a violation of the rules?

Here is what happened to their stock and the dates:

February 2012†- JCP announces Ellen DeGeneres as their new spokesperson.
Stock price:

May 2012†- JCP launches catalog ad featuring two "gay" moms.
Stock price $35.67†

June 2012†- JCP launches catalog ad featuring two "gay" dads.
Stock price†$25.83†

July 2012†- JCP stock rated "junk" by S&P. JCP fires marketing exec.
Stock price†$20.02†

That is six months to have HALF your equity go up in smoke. JC Penny shoppers did not want to see these types of social justice ads. It is not the "values" that JC Penny shoppers embrace. JC Penny paid a very big price for marking lifestyle vs products. The simple fact is if Penny's would have marketed their products instead of people then they would not be in the same situation they are today.

That is not homophobic it is simply realizing that when it comes to business you need to market your products and not people (unless your selling people or their image, etc.)

Post# 1024007 , Reply# 17   2/8/2019 at 15:46 (1,848 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)        
Excuse me, but

pulltostart's profile picture

The simple fact is if Penny's would have marketed their products instead of people then they would not be in the same situation they are today.


If the same ads had featured straight/heterosexual couples, Penny's would have still been marketing people.



Post# 1024010 , Reply# 18   2/8/2019 at 16:01 (1,848 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
I walked through their "appliance" depertment

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It was sorely lacking any choices, and was in JC Penny tradition, overpriced.

I think it was a venture that they tried in their attempt to stay alive in the retail business, hoping to capture some of the traffic when Sear's exited many of the malls. Offering only Samsung and LG appliances severely limited their appeal.

Since Penny's has been predicted to be the next retail bankruptcy, their exit from large appliances was probably a good move on their part, as they can focus on smaller, less costly inventory.

Now if they would just work on their customer service. My 14 year old daughter was treated very rudely at the make up counter. The way the woman acted, knowing that she is probably on commission, I could have understood if she had been a little more decent towards my child.

Maybe Penny's and other retailers should review who has the most disposable income, it's usually the teens.

But back to appliances, they would probably have done better if they had staffed the area with employees that could have helped the customers. Reading the post above, maybe they were afraid a gay would buy a washer from them. Some believe they should still wear the pink triangle, at least in public to protect the "decent" citizens.

Post# 1024015 , Reply# 19   2/8/2019 at 16:35 (1,848 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

I'm sorry, did I wake up in the wrong Universe today?

They used to sell SelfAwareness[tm] for a dime a dozen pills at any local drugstore just last week, did they stop?

The *only* way that JC Penny's could have *possibly* not marketed "lifestyle" is to do what a lot of catalogs from say, BedBath&Beyond do: post pictures of the appliances/clothes etc with absolutely *no* person (living or mannequin) in sight.

The very second you have a human or the likeness of a human (drawing, dolls, real people etc) you are selling "lifestyle".

Matt (Moon1234), I would hope that someone who claims to be over 20 years old would understand that.

If they have what looks like "straight" couples, they are selling "lifestyle".

Anyone who thinks that, or claims that a store should go downhill for "catering" to a segment of the population is biased *against* that population. If you said they should go downhill for having pictures of People Of Color, you are racist. If you complained about "foreign looking" people, you are xenophobic. If you complained about people looking too poor or too rich, you are classist. If you complained about women only, you'd be misogynist, if it was men only instead you'd be misandrist. If you complained about transfolks, you'd be transphobic.

What the frack can possibly be so confusing about someone who claims a store should not advertise to non-straight people and deserves to go down in flames and then complain they should not be singled out for saying homophobic stuff, which is against the rules of this forum?

Asking for a ton of friends.

Post# 1024021 , Reply# 20   2/8/2019 at 18:18 (1,848 days old) by Moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Iím sorry if I offended anyone. It wasnít my intent. I was simply saying that the way JC Penny marketed themselves had an effect on their sales. That pushed sales down, the stock fell and they have never recovered.

Some stores just canít get people through the door if they market to a way of life that others donít agree with. For Pennyís most of their customers weíre older people with traditional values that were offended by the ads. Groups like millions moms and others called for people to not shop there. It was national news. That, coupled with the elimination of sales, coupons, etc. was enough for a lots of pennyís shoppers to just take their dollars elsewhere.

Its not me be homophobic. Iím a Christian and I just have a different viewpoint. If I choose to shop elsewhere when I donít agree with a stores views, then I am voicing my opinion silently by spending money at other stores.

For pennyís they are still not connecting with people by having the right products at the right price. They are doing the same thing Kohlís, Macyís ad others are doing. They arenít standing out from the crowd. Unless pennyís has something unique by way of a sale or merchandise then there really is no draw to shop there. If they then choose to offend a portion of their customers (I know people get upset when others are upset) then that results in lost sales.

Again I am sorry if I offended someone.

Post# 1024022 , Reply# 21   2/8/2019 at 18:30 (1,848 days old) by Moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

I also want to clarify by stating that I did not say they shouldnít advertise to any segment of the population, only that doing so may upset a portion of their portential customers enough that they choose not to shop there.

We canít force people to shop anywhere (yet anyway). Most stores attract a certain segment of the population. Thatís what they cater to. If the store upsets them, for whatever reason, and they stop shopping, then what?

Letís take a different store for example. Brooks Brothers. They got sold in the 90s and radically changed what they were selling. The didnít understand their customers were mostly older men with money who wanted to buy higher end clothes that were made in the styles that have been around forever. They were not interested in the hipster cheap clothes that were fashion forward and modern. The brand suffered a lot. It was bought by an Italian after that who returned to traditional clothes, bumped the prices up and increased quality. Itís making money now, but the store caters to a specific segment of the market. If they all of a sudden started marketing to young college kids and changed the ethos of the brand, those people who spend $100 on a shirt or $1000 on a suit are going to go shop elsewhere.

This is why Pennyís fires their marketing manager after that sixth month ad campaign. It wasnít brining in the cash Pennyís needed. Ron Johnson was booted not long after. They have had 5 CEOs now in the past 7 years. They donít know what they want to be and most people no longer care. The stock is worth less than $1 / share (lower then when they went public back in 1920s).

I will bet they will follow sears in the next year years. They have a 2.3 billion loan payment due in just two years. My guess is they either default, get sold or go into receivership.

Post# 1024032 , Reply# 22   2/8/2019 at 20:37 (1,848 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Matt (Moon1234):

Lets just start by the least complicated of the statements you made. Lets talk about Brooks Brothers. Now, maybe you shouldn't be asking me, I am very far from a person who knows fashions, but, y'know, some of my best friends are and I'd like to think I pay attention to what they say.

Brooks Brothers was never "higher end" clothing. Please pay attention to the clothes and you *will* notice that they are clothes constructed for _durability_, not to look fashionable or good. There's plenty of double lines of sewing and flat-fell seams, for example. The buttons are wrong, very generic. The fabrics were never anything to write home about. They were built to be worn by working class people, not that there's anything wrong with that. But Americans wearing Brooks Brothers can be spotted a mile and half away elsewhere in the world -- same really as the stereotypical "professor type" with the elbow patches, not that there's anything wrong with that or them either. It's just *not* even high end, much less higher end. It's like jeans, you can pay a ton of money (some pairs of jeans go for over 500 bucks, I'm told) and it doesn't matter how much it costs or how good it looks, it will forever read "this person showed up here in jeans". Personally, I *love* jeans and I live in them, but I will *never* ever be mistaken for someone who dressed appropriately or high(er) end. Ever. Brooks Brothers reads "factory floor, maybe an engineer there, but not a manager or an owner". Jeans are durable. High end stuff is frequently very delicate.

There, I said it, I feel better already.

Now to the rest of the post(s).

It must feel good to be the "default", the person who is always catered to. It sure reads that way when I see what you write. Imagine someone said that JC Penny should not sell to Protestants. Or Baptists. Or people who have ever been to Wisconsin, even if they just changed planes there. Wouldn't you be offended? Furious? Even if I *assured* you that I didn't mean to offend anyone, y'know, I just "don't like the 'lifestyle' of the good people of Wisconsin"? Which of those words would all of a sudden stop being merely generic adjectives and become sarcastic adverbs, that intensify all the other words, "good", "people", "Wisconsin"?

No one, you included, likes to be discriminated against. Particularly when none of us (or you) are doing anything criminal, or hurting anyone.

There is *no* earthly reason to object to advertising to non-straight people. None. They are people just like you and me, and I am willing to bet "good money" (10 bucks, so I don't make anyone poor) that every single person who comes to this website, you included, has about 10% of their family be non-straight, which is more often rendered as gay, but I do not want to exclude the bisexuals, of which I am one. So is my husband.

The very minute you claim to be "traditional" or "Christian" as excuses to be homophobic, you trip against more crap you need to deal with.

Lots and lots of people grew up Christian. Many of them *left* the Church when they discovered that that particular version of the church was supposed to mistreat non-straight people. *Other* people who grew up Christian were told in *no* uncertain terms that God loves everyone, and will forgive people who open their hearts and help each other.

Some of us that grew up with the latter just happen to think that some of y'all who spout the antigay crap are not very Christian.

ęThe Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.Ľ
††††††-- Lynn Lavner

I want to make this very clear: first off, the same way that people don't want "Sharia Law" in America, the rest of us take the First Amendment *really* really seriously. The only way to protect the freedom to have a religion is to protect freedom of religion entirely, including the freedom to be agnostic, atheist or belong to The Satanic Temple.

The same way I don't want people who preach any religion (Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, whatever) take over and make us all obey a single religion, I don't want your particular brand of religion winning either. In particular, I don't want people who think we should shun the gay folks winning.

Certain things are said only a few times in the Bible, if we're picking up only one brand of religion. So, yeah, someone said something which can vaguely be interpreted as anti-gay in the Bible, although, if you look at it properly, it meant something different.

But there are things which are said over and over and over again in the Bible. And, if you claim to be Christian, you should have noticed that they are said even more often by Jesus. That we should help others. We are to clothe and feed and house lost travelers and people who came to ask us for help. That whatever we do to the least of his people, you do to him.

What part of that do you really think "don't make cakes or sell flowers to gays, don't let JC Penny's advertise to them" is? Conversely, instead of being railing against people who did *nothing* wrong, which part are you purposely ignoring, like there are people fleeing oppression, death, starvation walking thru the desert no less, how much more Biblical could it get, and people want to call themselves Christian and build a wall to stop the poor from coming to us asking for help? What kind of Christian is your church, the kind that does the work of the devil?

You have *no* right to ask for "traditional" crappy stuff and hurt people who are, just like you, the children of God. Only God has the right to judge them. If they did something wrong, it's between them and God.

Which, incidentally, it's *also* a *major* major bit of news that Jesus was trying to tell us, whatever you do it's between you and God. We are not to be pushy or showy while praying. We can *tell* others that there is news that God loves *everybody* and will forgive people who open their hearts and do the hard job of *helping* (not hindering) others in their path. *But*, and this is a major but, we are to leave people *in peace*, whether or not they want to join in this message. If they are not ready to accept the message or refuse to join, there's something there, I'm spacing out the words, do you remember? Something or another along the lines of "leave them in peace inside their own home and shake the dust off your clothing"? Something like that.


You don't sound Christian.

You sound like a homophobe.

And yeah, in calling you out and making a spectacle of myself, I'm not behaving in a very Christian way either. I apologize to everyone about the religious and political tone of my posting.

But I want you to understand that you have a *lot* of work to do on yourself.

Start asking why do you freaking care, perhaps? Not everyone likes mango ice-cream for example. Or chocolate, or vanilla or strawberry. Do you see people who dislike one of those kinds being so freaking worried that others don't like what they like or don't hate what they hate? How many people go around even thinking about what kind of ice-cream, cake, cheese cake, lasagna, roast beef others like? Who cares, as long as we can all get what we want and avoid what we don't want?

Most gay people that I know of, for example, don't know and don't care one wit about what straight people do in bed. Most truly straight people that I know couldn't care any less about what gay people do in bed. It's none of their business.

So, I ask you, with all due respect, *why* do you freaking care or even pay attention to what flavor of "ice-cream" they are licking? If you _are_ straight, why are you bothered or paying attention to what gay people do? Are you perhaps an itty bitty not straight?

If you believe God is all powerful (and most Christians are supposed to), why do you question God making gay people? Or care? If it were a sin, it wouldn't be any of your business, it's not contagious like measles. It's between them and God.

People are who they are and it's none of your business and no reason to make a business crash and burn because of it. Every time you even think about it, ask yourself what would happen if the message instead had been "let's boycott JC Penny's for selling to islamic people" or "Christian" or "Baptist" or "Protestant". Or people from Wisconsin. Would it be outrageous? Would it be mistreating innocent people? Then don't do it to gay people.

And again, I will apologize once more for the *tone* of my message, but not for the message.

Thank you all for listening.

††††††-- Paulo.

Post# 1024037 , Reply# 23   2/8/2019 at 20:52 (1,848 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        

" Iím a Christian and I just have a different viewpoint. "

The problem is that the world does not get up and change in response to "viewpoint", regardless of what the viewpoint is or who holds it.

People of color, gay men and women, same sex couples, trans individuals, and non-binary people are present in the same numbers they've always been. They're just not hiding as much as they used to.

My guess is that someone at JCPenny realized they were not on the radar to some of the groups I mentioned above and then attempted to put themselves on the radar. Whether or not that was done in an intelligent manner is a separate issue.

From what I've read in various places I'd wager that those ads brought a large number of new potential customers into the stores, but sales did not follow because most items were overpriced for their style and quality. I.E. the above-mentioned groups did not buy products for the same reason straight, white, cis-gendered folk shop at JCPenny less and less over the years.

BTW, Macy's seems to be doing fairly well despite the fact that they market very, very loudly to the same demographic groups. Ditto Barefoot wine and Absolut vodka.

Two points that extend beyond this discussion:

1. Correlation does not equal causation. Everywhere in the world that has a distinct summer and winter ice cream sales and deaths by drowning move up and down in almost perfect synchronization. What's the connection? There isn't one. When temps go up, more people eat ice cream and more people go swimming. When temps go down people do less swimming and eat less ice cream. Both are products of temperature swings. They are not connected.

2. In many areas of the English speaking world referring to anyone who is not straight, white, cis-gendered, and Christian as having a "lifestyle" and referring to the "secular" media suggests the speaker/writer has a worldview that is insular, uninformed, and/or ill-informed even if that is not the case.


Post# 1024045 , Reply# 24   2/8/2019 at 22:24 (1,847 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
avoid patronizing places like Hobby Lobby or Chick Filet because they outright refuse to employ or want customers who are gay.....THAT you would protest by not shopping there...

not shopping at JCPenney because of an ad/commercial that's pro-gay.....that's homophobic!

smart business for any is green, I don't care who spends it in my store!

careful, the next cashier, gas pump attendant, waiter, teller, etc....may be gay....AND you might not even know it!....

I was standing at a checkout the other day....a woman was stating to the cashier that she didn't like gay people, and could spot them a mile away (granted, yes, some are a little more obvious than others)Ö.I spoke up, "Even Hellen Keller could figure that one out!".....maybe the straights should stop breeding so many of us!

I wonder why we are so obsessed trying to find intelligent life on other planets, when we can't find any intelligent life here!

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Post# 1024050 , Reply# 25   2/8/2019 at 23:33 (1,847 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        
RE: #'s 16, 20, & 21

I believe it was one portion of a post that was removed, not any entire post.

Could you please explain how "pushing the Gay/Lesbian thing", "pushing that 'life style' as normal", and "until that all went away" could possibly be construed as NON-derogatory?

May I suggest a rather simple guide for future use?

If you come across a statement regarding Gay/Lesbian people, remove that word and insert the word "Black" or "African-American" in its place. If the new sentence is racist, derogatory, or negative in any way, it is a safe bet that the original sentence was equally homophobic, derogatory, or negative.

Suppose JCP made a commercial with a Deaf family (for simplicity's sake, let's assume they're all straight, white, and cis-gendered) signing to each other... And lights flashed when someone called or pushed the doorbell. Would you accuse JCP of "pushing the Deaf thing"? Would you state JCP was "pushing that 'lifestyle' as normal"? Would you refuse to shop there "until that all went away"? Yes, it's the exact same thing.

And if you HONESTLY believe it's somehow different with "Deaf" or "Black" as opposed to "Gay" I respectfully suggest you find new sources of information about the world because the ones you currently have are furnishing you with wildly inaccurate information.


Post# 1024062 , Reply# 26   2/9/2019 at 00:36 (1,847 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The Pennys in my area sell the home-kitchen appliances-ranges,fridges and washers,dryers.They also stock small kitchen appliances such as mixers,blenders and food processors.

Post# 1024070 , Reply# 27   2/9/2019 at 02:55 (1,847 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Yes, seems as though Penny's has once long been known for clothes...

And at least electronics, small appliances, and even furniture, as well...

-- Dave

Post# 1024081 , Reply# 28   2/9/2019 at 07:30 (1,847 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Anyone who says they stopped shopping at a particular store because that store featured gays in its advertising IS homophobic, no matter how many times that say they are not homophobic.

And gay isn't a "lifestyle." it is a sexuality. FFS.

Off to Geelong Pride march tomorrow.

Post# 1024082 , Reply# 29   2/9/2019 at 07:48 (1,847 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
Can't say I blame them.....

launderess's profile picture
Selling major appliances in this age of internet for "brick" stores must difficult. They must stock inventory, pay (and find)good sales persons and a host of other issues online does not. Worse people come in and waste salesperson's time asking four thousand questions, kicking the tires, then go off and buy online because it is "cheaper".

Sears moved tons of appliances in their day thanks to their credit card/financing. That was one of the real reasons Kenmore dominated much of the US appliance market.

Post# 1024086 , Reply# 30   2/9/2019 at 08:20 (1,847 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Queer eye for the straight guy!

I think his wife is more afraid if they shop somewhere like JCPenneys, he may come home with options to upgrade to a guy who would take care of him better!

how many times have you been out shopping, and seen a husband and wife, and you could tell he is miserable, but drudges on....

even more that he ducks out long enough to slip you his number!...

she probably thinks he is SAFE going to Home Depot alone!....little does she know, he is going for some wood, but it ain't lumber!

Post# 1024090 , Reply# 31   2/9/2019 at 09:34 (1,847 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ)        


Stop. Reading. My. Mind.

I had pretty much the same thing running through my head last night while I was composing my responses. That's one reason it took me so long to write them, lol.

"... seen a husband and wife, and you could tell he is miserable, but drudges on..."

Saw that years ago with my ex. We'd just gotten off the plane and were on the tram/mini metro heading to the luggage area. next stop: Gay Days! There was a guy with three daughters aged about 9,11,& 13 and his wife. The girls were chattering away about what they planned to do while they were at Disney. His wife was bitching away giving him a list of chores and warnings not to f**k things up. She was performing a monologue and completely failed to notice he didn't even know she was talking. Daughters to his left, wife to his right, He was looking back and forth, smiling and adding a comment with his daughters, exhausted, depressed and resentful when he looked at his wife. The story was clear; "I love my daughters, but this life is totally NOT what I signed up for." Looking around the car it was clear my ex & I were not the only ones who noticed this.

Back then I was much more reticent and just felt bad for him. If I were in that situation today I'd be trying to figure out a way to let him know he does have options:-) h

Post# 1024093 , Reply# 32   2/9/2019 at 09:59 (1,847 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        
Some bargains from April 1983

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The last time JC Penney announced the end of appliance sales was Feb 1st, 1983.  Cedar Rapids had a large mall anchor JCP (built in 1979) with an appliance department.  I remember it being decent-sized but not as large as Sears.


I looked up the ads from that time and by April of 1983 they were advertising the following discounts.  By June 1983 they were advertising 25% all remaining stock and that was the end of it.

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Post# 1024096 , Reply# 33   2/9/2019 at 11:21 (1,847 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I defy anyone to find any statement by Jesus against men who have sex with men. Granted, there was no understanding of same-sex attraction back then, but Jesus even healed, with no recorded negative comment about them, a centurion's young male servant when such a relationship was known to include sexual relations. There is a lot of commentary by others against male-male sex, notably Paul, that stupid Christian scholars do not bother to realize is directed at the Roman civilization which was demonizing the growing Christian movement. It is like in the so-called Old Testament where there are all kinds of evil actions attributed to the Edomites, but that was the name of Israel's ancient enemy used to refer to the current oppressors of the Israelites whose name could not be spoken, much like Rome's name could not be used in criticism by the Christians so the social mores of the Roman civilization which did include male/male sex were used to reference the Romans.

Maybe Penney's did make a mistake in trying to change the thinking of a largely unsophisticated, bigoted segment of their shopping base whose learning stopped somewhere in high school and for whom Penny's was a step up from Arlen's, Woolco, Zayre and KMart. Many of these love-filled ardently Christian customers are the kinds who are responsible for the wave of homeless LGBT youth sleeping on the streets and whose schooling has stopped except in the rare cases where they find a full service shelter where they can live, learn life skills and continue their education. Their stupid, hate-filled preachers who have directed them to turn their backs on their children will not be there when they have to answer to God for abandoning their children.

Post# 1024121 , Reply# 34   2/9/2019 at 16:42 (1,847 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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I clicked on this this JCP thread and was surprised that it turned into a religious "Tent Revival". I've always liked the positive discussion of department stores selling major appliances. In the suburban Emporium stores where I worked appliances were always sort of an "add-on" to the furniture area. Shortly before they ditched appliances, Macy's San Francisco added 3 model "dream" kitchens. The modern one was space-age and out of this world. I think at the time, Macy's California division had more money than they knew what to do with. Sales were that good. 


Jamile, although my current illness prohibits me from venturing out to malls, The Palm Springs Mall was already in decay when I moved here. The now defunct Gottschalk's was the only department store open and it wasn't much of an anchor. I believe the only original anchors were Penny's and Kmart, with more pricey stores like Saks and Bullock's located downtown which is currently undergoing a massive remodel of shopping, hotels and condos.  Department store shopping has moved to nearby Palm Desert with Macy's, Penny's and Sears located at Westfield Mall. 


Downtown seems to be losing it's "quaintness" at the expense of what's "hip & trendy"...



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Post# 1024135 , Reply# 35   2/9/2019 at 20:46 (1,847 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

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Agreed--Palm Springs Mall is dead dead dead--as I recall when we first started going there in 2009 the only thing open at that time was a Rite Aid (we happened into there one trip when the store was closing).

Post# 1024177 , Reply# 36   2/10/2019 at 06:52 (1,846 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

"I thought they did all the stores. My local Penny's went substantially up-scale a few years back with the remodel, marble floors through out, up-scale lighting, new racking, better layout."

Maybe certain classes of stores got upgrades like that. But the store here only got new paint colors and carpet around 2006 maybe. Then after hurricane Irma in 2017 there was some water damage and the store was closed for a few months. The only changes I noticed were new carpet and ceiling tiles due to the damage. They also removed the checkout counter in two of the departments.

A few months after that they did redo the jewelry department though.

But nothing like marble floors or new lighting. Maybe this was something they did to the stores that are older? The one here was built in 1991 so is relatively newer I'd guess.

Post# 1024178 , Reply# 37   2/10/2019 at 06:54 (1,846 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        
Hunt Club

Anyone remember the Hunt Club brand? It reminded me of JCPenney's version of Ralph Lauren's Polo. In the early 2000s the brand became only a few men's items. Then it seemed to become their school uniform brand. After that it was done away with.

Post# 1024247 , Reply# 38   2/10/2019 at 20:03 (1,846 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

It was just yesterday I actually went to our nearby Penny's at Oakland Mall with my daughter and a friend of hers...


Saw the appliance department, foretold by the banner outside the store stating, in the exact format:


So, to me, other than the predictable short time they are playing games with the Going Out Of Business ballyhoo that Sears is doing, nothing's changed...


As Sears and Montgomery Ward's were long the Ford/General Motors of the Specialty Store World, JC Penny could easily pass as the Chrysler, as past and now defunct contemporaries, are the AMC...







-- Dave

Post# 1024250 , Reply# 39   2/10/2019 at 20:31 (1,846 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Some references on TV, to the retailer I have witnessed:


In the sitcom SANFORD AND SON, Fred is seen with a shovel, sharing with a scientist, his digging with it he was doing in the yard, explaining that it was an artifact of JayCeePennee...


While in another episode, Grady met this ugly gal he was dating "at JC Penny", as he'd told Fred and Lamont when asked... She'd recommended a burgundy tie to go with his suit of charcoal gray... And later on, Fred and Lamont bungle up the affair at their house, inviting Grady and his beau to have dinner in their living room and finding a way for him to screw up their rendezvous, to help the couple break up... (He wasn't in love with her as much as she had an affection for him, that with their help, he'd intended to blow off!)


Lastly, THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW,  quotes Sheriff Andy Taylor to most-likely his Deputy Barney Fife: "You look good enough to be put in a JC Penny window!", as the that scene even got resurrected as a snippet on the A&E Biography of JC Penny, years ago, along with watching countless other episodes about the famous, I also had watched...




-- Dave

Post# 1024269 , Reply# 40   2/11/2019 at 00:38 (1,845 days old) by man114 (Buffalo)        

Not entirely surprised. I went to check out the appliances after it was first announced and installed which I'll get to in a sec, but a few things first.

Our store received a complete Ron Johnson remodel and it looked and still looks fantastic. Making the excuse of Ellen, or mom mom and dad dad ads is really just an excuse.

The problem really was JCP did not have the money to really undertake those remodels. They also didn't have time to wait out the flat dollar pricing strategy to be accepted.

I think both were good ideas, but they alienated the usual shoppers who wanted gimmicky coupons and high low pricing. Mostly older folks who've shopped there a long time. That doesn't work. If it did everyone would be shopping at Sears because Shop Your Way is the best rewards program in existence. Only a handful of people will mess around with that stuff. The reason Sears wasn't successful with SYW is because its a gimmicky rewards program that largely caters to younger people who use rewards programs and the internet, but most of their shoppers are older just as they were at JCP, Macy's and Bon-Ton.

Now JCP backed themselves into a load of debt and were losing sales. I'm sure it would eventually have turned around but instead they ditched Ron Johnson and went back to the same old formula. It helped reverse things to some degree but didn't differentiate them, it was back to same old same old.

So then they decide to bring in appliances. I don't know what the precise reason but it likely had to do with Sears' issues. Except Sears was still competitive in appliances despite their struggles and had everything in place, allocated and designed to sell appliances. JCP had none of it other than the floor space to do it. They started it off in a few stores then for some unknown reason did a mass rollout. However they never really advertised it.

So they put the appliances in. They looked nice, the displays were modern and nice looking. Except no one was shopping them. The times I went there there were no customers and one associate. Soon there were no associates and an empty department.

One problem as I mentioned was lack of advertising. I saw a scant few ads for appliances. Can't sell what no one knows you have. Secondly the pricing was not competitive. Lowe's was almost always cheaper at the outset. Sears always had some of their typical gimmicks like free delivery or financing. Best Buy had better sale prices. Home Depot had better sale prices. Local places had better service because they advertised and had associates to sell the stuff.

There was simply no compelling reason to shop at JCP for appliances.

While I'd have stuck with it if I were them mainly because they have plenty of floor space I doubt appliances have enough turns that they wouldn't have gotten stuck with old models. They simply are not selling in necessary volumes to avoid it. With their questionable financial situation they probably can't afford to invest in it.

With Eddie wheeling and dealing to try and keep Sears alive and the talk of new small format stores, since he's somehow managed to keep this Sears stuff going so long if he somehow makes it last another year, two or longer those big debt payments JCP has coming were likely a factor in their decision to exit.

Had they had more money to stick with it it would have been one thing but they were out of the game too long and didn't market it well.

They need sales now. Not hopes of future sales. They don't have some rich hedge fund money manager like Fast Eddie wheeling and dealing to keep the game alive, nor the time to wait until he finally gives up on this Sears dream he can't seem to let go of. If you look at the track record of stores that were in Sears' financial situation with years of losses, almost all of them are already memories.

JCP also didn't have the luxury of having a still well known private brand like Kenmore to slap on anything they see fit.

JCP should focus on something more manageable that they're still somewhat known for like housewares, small appliances and cookware. Try and drain sales from Bed Bath and Beyond instead. Otherwise I could see them going in the same general direction Sears did but the more likely outcome isn't surviving bankruptcy even if the survival is short lived.

Rumor is JCP is reducing their appliances tomorrow. I'll be going to check it out and get pictures of their display setup because it looked quite nice.

Post# 1024287 , Reply# 41   2/11/2019 at 06:35 (1,845 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

In my area for both Pennys and Sears-appliance shoppers could go to Best Buy or Lowes for better deals and assurance those places will be able to support the applainces in the future.The older Lowes is just next door to the Sears here!And they have a BIGGER Craftsman tool dept!!!The Craftsman tools are going from Sears to Lowes!!

Post# 1024295 , Reply# 42   2/11/2019 at 09:20 (1,845 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Oops, I meant it was pronounced by Fred Sanford as: "Jay Cee Penn-aaaayyyy!"


Wonder if the idea of your Lowe's getting Sears' Craftsman's tools just a matter of moving them from door to next door...


Our local retailer Ace Hardware was one outlet that I thought was actually going to carry Craftsman, and under the banners I'd seen in the tool selection was the actual Craftsman tools...


Seems as though, to me, Lowe's is actually more worthy chain-wide of gaining Craftsman than Home Depot, but don't know why...




-- Dave

Post# 1025254 , Reply# 43   2/21/2019 at 04:09 (1,835 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
Yes, where did those days go?!

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Well, I did have a Pennyís catalog from 1982, and other than major appliances, they sold everything...

So there was furniture, a whole line of light fixtures, every hand and power tool you could imagine, and every kind and sort of auto accessory... Not to mention things like carpeting, clothing, and jewelry...

ó Dave

Post# 1025316 , Reply# 44   2/21/2019 at 23:55 (1,834 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I've seen a number of commercials on TV for Penny's appliances, "Now, up to 40% off..."

Post# 1025339 , Reply# 45   2/22/2019 at 10:28 (1,834 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
JCPenney's had appliances back in 1988ish era.....I know there were small appliances, but I only recall washers/dryers....

as they had Frigidaire FL SpaceMates I was thinking of 1990 they were on clearance....

Sears had this same set on floor model clearance as well....oddly Sears had the better price so that's where I got them....

Post# 1025369 , Reply# 46   2/22/2019 at 18:50 (1,834 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

jamiel's profile picture
I'd almost believe that they reached a tipping point with their vendors (GE/Samsung/Ö) where they had to put up or shut up regarding inventory--believe I read that they were strictly ordertakers for the manufacturers and hosted no inventory. They may have reached a point where they needed to pony up for inventory, but didn't have the business case to do that. They were probably acceptably productive (on a sales/square foot basis) without any inventory investment, but any investment ruined the business case. I knew one couple who bought some appliances there 18 months or so who shopped pretty hard...believe they had a 12 months same as cash which sold them.

As I recall they discontinued full-line whitegoods in 1981/2 as mentioned, but believe they kept WCI front-load stackable washer/dryer in the catalogue for several years beyond that. The original rollout seemed pretty comprehensive to all their clustered stores built since they made their mall move in 1960 or so; and entirely omitted the older dry-goods stores (in St. Louis, they had appliances at South County Center built in 1962 but did not have them at Hampton Village, a 1948 (roughly) build dry-goods store. Back in 1981/1982 their major appliance departments were not comprehensive like Sears or Wards, but were more like any other department store (in St. Louis, both Famous-Barr and Stix Baer and Fuller sold major appliances).

Post# 1025476 , Reply# 47   2/24/2019 at 05:08 (1,832 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture

Around the years you'd mentioned JC Penny last selling appliances in the late-'80's, was when I had seen a catalog showing White-Westinghouse there, and mainly stuff like dishwashers & compact washes and dryers standing out...




-- Dave

Post# 1025493 , Reply# 48   2/24/2019 at 10:00 (1,832 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
surprised JCPenney's lasted this long.....

I got my first credit card from them, and still have it....

Boscov's was always been a store of decorated gaudy glitz, trying to compete with the likes of Macy's.....the pricing of KMart, and quality of a Dollar Store....always having their outside tent sales, for stuff they can't give away...although they do still offer gift wrap and discounts to Military...

Post# 1025508 , Reply# 49   2/24/2019 at 13:28 (1,832 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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(deleted, wrong thread)

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