Thread Number: 78625  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Low spin, Low Tech, H-Axis Washer
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Post# 1026210   3/4/2019 at 12:55 (1,824 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)        

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Why not make a simple H-axis machine without a computer of any kind, limit the spin speed, and pair it with a separate spinner?

You could have a simple cheaper to build, rugged, water efficienct machine, yet with all the advantages of DD machine and a modern FL machine combined.

Post# 1026211 , Reply# 1   3/4/2019 at 13:20 (1,824 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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That is what they did here in the 60's. Frontloaders didn't have high spin speeds yet. Most people had a separate spin dryer for getting out more water.

We also had H-axis toploaders that didn't spin, but had a spinner next to the washing drum. The AEG Turnamat became famous for it.

Here is a picture of a Turnamat from way back when.

  View Full Size
Post# 1026224 , Reply# 2   3/4/2019 at 14:39 (1,824 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Why not?

You mean makeing a FL without all the advantages of a FL?

Sure sounds awesome....

Post# 1026232 , Reply# 3   3/4/2019 at 16:14 (1,824 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Been there and done that.

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Least in Europe and elsewhere, as mentioned above AEG and others produced loads of various semi-automatic "twin tub" washers.

Problem is they all are just that; semi-automatic which means Madame or anyone else doing laundry is still involved on wash day. Though it took longer to catch on fully automatic washing machines gave Hoover, AEG and other twin tubs the push. Fully automatic washing machines came to dominate a majority of market share that major appliance manufacturers simply stopped producing semi-automatics.

Today you can still find semi-automatics including twin tubs; but near universally they are all from Asia.

Also over the years costs of producing fully automatic washing machines (top loading or H-axis) have dropped which is reflected in prices.

Years ago a semi-automatic was cheaper; so if a household couldn't afford the "best" that is what they got. Many housewives and others were thrilled to simply get away from doing washing by hand, going to laundromats, sending things out, etc... that they happily put up with some inconveniences of using a semi-automatic.

Low spin speed? That is O-W-T out in todays push for energy savings.

Years ago when line drying was the presumed norm then "maybe" such a washer would slip pass government regulators; but in these modern times it is all about reducing carbon footprint, energy use, etc....

Aside from energy used to heat water used for washing (and or rinsing), the next biggest factor comes from evaporating out residual water from washing in tumble dryers. More water that is extracted by washer, means less that has to be baked out by a dryer, and or via ironing. Since extraction involves less energy than heating.... well there you are then.

Even in era of semi-automatics Hoover and others (including Easy's Spindrier, GE and other early twin tubs with spin baskets), touted that their extract baskets removed more water than wringing (hand or with a mangle), thus left things drier. Some washing could go straight to ironing without the bother of line or other means of drying first.

This post was last edited 03/04/2019 at 17:12
Post# 1026235 , Reply# 4   3/4/2019 at 16:49 (1,824 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Still have a Twin tub

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Used it just the other day, I really must put them on youtube so they can be seen by all.. Have uploaded one now.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1026236 , Reply# 5   3/4/2019 at 16:55 (1,824 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
For Commercial Use

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Then you have these Unimac twin tub units.

They are marketed for car washes, but others use them as well. Hotels/motels use these semi-automatics to plow though tons of napkins, tablecloths, and even shirts with speed.

Post# 1026237 , Reply# 6   3/4/2019 at 17:05 (1,824 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Rinse and spin video

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And a look around the old wash house.

I showed the Whirlpool with a dog duvet as I knew it would not fit in the Twin tub but to save wasting the hot soapy water when I finished with it I pumped it into the FL everything was lovely and clean when it was all done.


Post# 1026238 , Reply# 7   3/4/2019 at 17:07 (1,824 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Sorry guys, it took a little bit longer than what you were expecting.

The Laundry Alternative Niagara will reach the market in 2 or 3 months and everything is running smoothly.

MONSTER capacity (actually impressive for the washer's size)
Auto fill
Auto rinse (3 deep rinses)
DECENT NON-Eco-nazi water levels
Fabric softener dispenser
Obviously it has adrain pump

And no, it doesn't spin. Don't be scrooge, buy one of our spin dryers (matching spin dryer model coming together and it will be called "Ninja")

Post# 1026249 , Reply# 8   3/4/2019 at 19:34 (1,824 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)        

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My idea is to take the pressure of the washer by eliminating the medium and high spin requirement.
Just spin the clothes enough so they can be taken from the washer and put in the spin dryer without dripping a lot of water all over the place. Then spin, then put in the vented dryer or on a drying rack.
This allows a washer to avoid needing to be designed to spin a large load at high rpm. That makes everything much computer to balance the load etc.
The Machine is H-Axis, so the inherent cleaning benefits remain. All that is being introduced is the extra step of using a high speed spin dryer. But equipment longevity increases and time spent doing laundry drops. High speed spinners are so much faster and more effective than any washer, drying time should drop too.

Post# 1026261 , Reply# 9   3/4/2019 at 22:52 (1,823 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Just for the record, the Turnamats were automatic, prewash, wash and 5 rinses were done automatically. You only had to spin the clothes at the end. They used a lot of water because there were no spins between rinses, but back then some fully automatic models didn't spin between rinses either. The Turnamats were very simple machines, but well built. You still see them appear on auction sites and older people still buy them because they don't want anything else.

Post# 1026278 , Reply# 10   3/5/2019 at 03:09 (1,823 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

When I was working on the niagara We considered a low spin (450rpm)

It would require a very basic suspension system, but the suspension would add weight, inches and cost to the washer. or, to keep the footprint small, we would have to sacrifice the capacity.

Weight is a big concern, because the concept was making a washer so lightweight an elderly short woman can lift it with one hand. It also had to be small enough to fit in a tiny closet, or a cramped "NY" studio, or RV.
And at the same time, it had to handle a load similar to a Whirlpool direct drive top load AND be able to wash queen size duvets and blankets.
So the challenge was optimize every single millimeter on it.

Oh, it also had to be super sturdy, to resist shipping (we had serious issues with FedEx shredding the SuperPop.

The result was a washer that is SMALLER than an average European HATL washer. I used as a base a model from a partner company from Argentina and we pushed everything up to the limit (including drum and tub redesigned from scratch.)

Thinking of many complaints i read here at AWO, one of the "features" i made mandatory is "it has to use water enough to have tons of water sloshing. Save water, of course, but with common sense, staying miles away from being a HE washer that barely moisten the load and the cycles can't take 2 hours to finish.

And the dripping didn't become a real concern as the user can simply wait 2-3 minutes after the cycle is done before transfering the load to a spin dryer. It is possible to unload the washer without a single drop falling on the floor.

And... it has a SS drum.

All that said, the washer must cost up to 50% less than a BOL TL washer MSRP. That wasn't a challenge, that was a NIGHTMARE for me.

Now people that really don't have space and can't afford a fancy LG signature have an alternative different from those tiny mini washers we used to sell until a few weeks ago. It's a tiny washer with a full size capacity and fully automatic.(no spin, but it fills, washes, rinses and drains automatically).

Other thing that was somewhat challenging nowadays, make it 100% analogic. No electronic components at all. The control panel has an electromechanical dial with several different cycles and an on-off switch. simple as that, dumb proof.

My first idea was an electronic panel with bells and whistles, but that would add cost. I ended up using an old school timer, including the "clicks" when it advances.

It won't be the mother of the washers, of course there are washers much better than the Niagara on the market, with more features, with more bells and whistles, but it's a honest washer that simply does what a washer has to do (clean and rinse decently a decently sized load) and it was REALLY built to last and it will be affordable for people that struggle counting quarters for the Laundromat.

Post# 1026380 , Reply# 11   3/6/2019 at 01:36 (1,822 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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If you can find an old Frigidaire brand front loader (made by Electrolux in the 90's), those are about as basic as you can get. No internal heater, analog electric clockwork controls. I understand they work fairly well (I have a couple in storage but haven't used them much) despite the lack of an internal heater. They probably work best if the water heater is close by and you can purge the hot water line into a utility sink by the washer before starting a cycle. These were resold under a variety of brand names, but they all look pretty much alike.

This one is typical. It's an interesting repair video:

Post# 1026475 , Reply# 12   3/7/2019 at 07:52 (1,821 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Spin driers

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As stand alone appliances were never a huge hit with the American housewife.

USA laundry market went from wringers to mainly top loading automatics with various final spin speed capacities. Arrival of tumble dryers coupled with then and still comparatively inexpensive energy sources meant people just baked all that extra moisture out of their wash.

Now that federal government is mandating tightening up of laundry day energy use washing machines have upped their final RPM speeds to reduce residual moisture.

A huge part of the American laundry doing demographic long has gotten use to putting laundry in washer, returning when cycle is complete, then bunging the wash into a dryer or hanging up. Adding an extra step of using an extractor didn't help sell Hoover or other twin tubs then, and likely won't have large market penetration today.

However will agree that there is something to H-axis washers with low speed spins seeming to last longer. You can find plenty of 800 rpm or so washers still out there chugging away. Even those that need repairs usually it is something other than the bearings or whatever worn down.

However as one who owns both an "older" Miele and two more modern AEG Lavamat washers; fully electronic controlled washers get my vote for many reasons.

Where the Miele will trash and bang itself to bits (if allowed) with an unbalanced load, the Lavamats with their motors fully electronically controlled are a treat.

Post# 1026489 , Reply# 13   3/7/2019 at 12:40 (1,821 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Final Spin And Longevity

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I see no relationship between spin speed and longevity of bearings and seals etc and the machine overall.


The recent popular FL washer we see most often with bad bearings are the FD built FL machines  pictured in reply # 11, early TL machines like FDs Unimatic spinning at over 1100 RPMs almost never had any bearing problem while WP-KM TL washers that only spun a little over 500 RPMs were almost guaranteed to have main bearing failures in the normal life of the washer.



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