Thread Number: 78738  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
New entry into the Dishwasher market
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Post# 1027294   3/17/2019 at 12:32 (1,810 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Do we really need another manufacturer selling dishwashers?


Wine-storage provider" data-cms-ai="1">Vinotemp has launched a new line of kitchen appliances with the collection’s first product: the Brama Stainless Dishwasher.


Lets  see if you can find parts 5 years from now...


Post# 1027295 , Reply# 1   3/17/2019 at 12:35 (1,810 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Looks like it might be a rebadged Samsung..


Post# 1027336 , Reply# 2   3/17/2019 at 16:46 (1,810 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

gorenje's profile picture
Hmmm... 1000 $ for a dishwasher with a visible heater. A dishwasher like this should have an integrated heater below the cabinet.

Our dishwashers don't have visible heaters on the bottom already 15 years or even more.

Post# 1027341 , Reply# 3   3/17/2019 at 18:15 (1,810 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Ingemar, your perspective about the exposed heating element is from a European point of view.  There are many Americans who still prefer a heated dry and that usually means an exposed heating element and not condenser type of dry as found on just about all European design dishwashers.  It's one of the reasons why I won't have a Bosch or other brand dishwasher.  I despise filters that have to be cleaned too.  fortunately for me, aside from Maytag dishwashers still having a soft-food grinder, higher-end KitchenAids have a self-cleaning filter system.  Several individuals still want a heated dry on the modern appliance forums I participate on.  

Post# 1027364 , Reply# 4   3/17/2019 at 22:58 (1,810 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
heated dry

I always use heated dry whether I use rinse aid or not. I use rinse aid and heated dry more often than not. I want my dishes clean and dry as possible. I always use cascade products.

Post# 1027369 , Reply# 5   3/18/2019 at 00:07 (1,810 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
The only dishwashers Samsung manufacture in-house are the water wall dishwasher. Midea or Little Swann (I think) make their other models.

I may be wrong about the companies, but I have been told several times by the service managers from Samsung that they only make their water wall in house.

Post# 1027373 , Reply# 6   3/18/2019 at 05:41 (1,809 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Well, just to give another American perspective, so Ingemar doesn't end up thinking all Americans think the same way, there are plenty of Americans who agree with Ingemar, many of my friends got exceedingly happy to find out their new dishwashers had a concealed heater -- when kids load the dishwasher (and I don't mean just by age, there are *plenty* of 30+ yo people I know who behave worse than 6 yo) if they are not very careful, plastic stuff can get dislodged and end up touching the heater and melting or worse.

Also, there are plenty of cheaper dishwashers that have an exposed element and are worse at drying (even with "heated dry" and a dry cycle of over 20 minutes) than Euro-style dishwashers. The key is not if the element is hidden or not, the key to good drying is if the racks hold the dishes at a slanted enough angle to drain the bottom of cups/mugs, for example, and how high the last rinse temp is -- I had friends with perfectly good dishwashers (KA, WP, Maytag, GE) for example, who had the water heater across the entire home on a slab, and the water would cool enough between fills that the last rinse was not reaching 140F, so even with "heated dry" and exposed element the dishes were wetter than other machines/situations.

Another benefit of the concealed heater is that one is free to load plastics anywhere in the dishwasher, not just the upper rack, and that frees up space for other things.

As for the filter, I also have news for you -- I have had to clean my filters way less than with the "disposer" dishwashers, and I have plenty of friends in the same situation. To begin with, cleaning the filter with an Euro machine is less than 2-minute operation: remove it, rinse it (even under cold water) and put it back, and one doesn't have to do it that often, certainly less than once a month in most cases. And the situation is also completely blown out of proportion, in the late 90's Frigidaire used to sell models with filters that were either identical or very similar to the Euro-style filers and labeled it "self-cleaning" and Consumer Reports listed it as a self-cleaning soft food disposer machine. Friends whose kids dumped plates with a lot of leftover spaghetti in their "disposer" dishwashers had to dismantle a lot of stuff and spend an awful lot of time cleaning. There are plenty of videos on the web of people cleaning the "self-cleaning" "disposer" of their dishwashers, some people even posted links of them right here in AW forums.

The other problem we have not had with the Euro-stye filters is machines breaking because some housemate's idiot boyfriend loaded the dishwasher in such a way to leave twist ties, screws or broken glass in the machine (the broken glass, at least in our case, was because the idiot boyfriend loaded stuff so badly that the spray dislodged something and broke it). We had the machine under warranty, but Maytag was *not* happy to have to replace the entire pump, and yes, stuff ended up *past* the "micro filter".

††††††-- Paulo.

Post# 1027471 , Reply# 7   3/19/2019 at 06:12 (1,808 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)        

gorenje's profile picture
Thank you very much for your opinions and explanations Bob ;)

It's true that everyone has their own habits and everyone prefer certain things from others. And that's right.

I agree with Paulo and because of the mentioned advantages I prefer concealed heaters rather than old style dishwashers, but that's just my point of view ;)

Post# 1027473 , Reply# 8   3/19/2019 at 06:26 (1,808 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Here's a video of a Whirlpool dishwasher with a dirty macerator.

Post# 1027482 , Reply# 9   3/19/2019 at 08:02 (1,808 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
European dishwasher

ozzie908's profile picture
I am on my 2nd Miele dishwasher its exceptionally quiet and alternates between racks so uses less water being cold fill it takes less time to heat, It does have a heater around the wash pump so you can load what you want where you like, It opens at the end of the dry cycle and most things are dry to put away. It also has self cleaning filters of which you get a reminder to check them after 50 cycles.
Best one I have had so far.

Post# 1027484 , Reply# 10   3/19/2019 at 08:28 (1,808 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Just my 2 cents regarding filters

iheartmaytag's profile picture
The old style Hobart Kitchenaid machines had a self-cleaning filter. You rarely, if ever had to do more than a quick rinse every few months.

Post# 1027489 , Reply# 11   3/19/2019 at 10:05 (1,808 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
There is no filter whatsoever to clean in disposer DWs

combo52's profile picture
First of all the video and reply number eight showing the clogged grinding plate from a whirlpool built dishwasher is completely wrong, the only time this plate gets anything on it is when the drive is broken as it is in this dishwasher. Again this is not a filter itís a grinding plate which normally never has anything on it cleaning it as done in the video is a complete waste of time because it will be clogged again in just two or three loads.

As to an exposed heating element there is no problem washing plastics or anything anywhere in the dishwasher as long as you use air dry which is all Iíve ever used in 30 years.

On my whirlpool dishwashers on air dry the dishes are completely dry the next morning with the door closed, with no noisy or troublesome fans etc.

I do not generally like dishwashers with filters the food stays on the filters for a while as it slowly dissolves as youíre clean rinse water is being forced to through the food, I almost never see filter style dishwashers where the filters are completely clean. The disposer style dishwashers never have anything left in them unless somethings broken.


Post# 1027502 , Reply# 12   3/19/2019 at 12:39 (1,808 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        

ozzie908's profile picture
John as far as I know there has never been a dishwasher in the UK with a grinder I had never heard of them before joining this group, they do make a lot of sense in busy households but having said that I have yet to find much gunk in mine as it cleans the filter when its washing it has no bother getting rid of any bit left on pans etc.
I suppose here its the old adage what you never had you never miss !!

Post# 1027507 , Reply# 13   3/19/2019 at 13:32 (1,808 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

OK, let's try this again.

Please don't make me go thru the intartubes searching for videos to post here.

There are *plenty* of videos of machines with a "food disposer" getting rid of a hamburger, which sounds pretty impressive until we find the videos of machines made in Germany, with "filters", getting rid of an entire cake.

There's not much to clean, if anything, in an Euro machine. The filtering system is basically self-cleaning and not much different from what Harley described above, and indeed, everyone seemed to be very happy with what Frigidaire offered in the 90's as a self-cleaning soft-food disposer machine.

The "advantage" of a "filter" machine is that everything is upfront and easy to take apart and rinse off when (or if) needed. If someone drops a plate of spaghetti inside the machine, it takes literally less than 2 minutes with "no stooping" (why is everyone so bent out of shape when they have to stoop, pun intended?) to pull it off, rinse everything off and be back in business.

I have had plenty of "disposer" machines that kept the spaghetti strands (or penne, or ziti, or fettuccine etc) there for over 3 cycles until I got fed up and crouched for over 5 minutes getting everything back in order. It was way more annoying. And, in my case, it wasn't even a child that did it, it was my housemate's idiot boyfriend who failed to scrape the plates as he should have. My friends, who had actual kids, all complained about the "disposer" being an annoyance and were fairly grateful to switch to the Euro-style "filter".

There isn't a good way to have a disposer and not fall prey to either the holes are too big (to let food thru) and then the machine is vulnerable to stuff like twist ties (which should never be there in the first place) or the hole is too small and one has to remove de food by hand from the grates when it happens, and that takes way longer than just rinsing a filter.

Same thing with the heater -- I have never had a problem with plastics melting in the lower rack, then again, maybe my family never had a machine with a heater that was too hot. On yet another hand, I've had a GE Profile dw for years and put my Tupperware/Rubbermaid on the lower rack (including lids) with *no* problems, and people here in another thread are complaining that whatever Tupperware they have can't have the lids in the dishwasher. And a friend of mine who also had a GE Profile nearly identical to mine (except it did not have Sensor Clean) would often complain that kids didn't load something correctly, it fell off from the rack and melted touching the heater. A problem I've *never* had.

Also, please recognize that manufacturers seldom have *your* best interests in mind. We and you are not their customers, the *investors* are, and they'll say *anything* to keep selling, whether it's true or not. There has been *plenty* of "you have to keep cleaning the filter" or "front-loaders leak" over the decades, and the incidence of "trouble" on both sides of both camps is nearly identical, it's all a matter of perception.

No one will say "sometimes you'll be crouching by the machine for over 5 minutes trying to remove food from the grates, and, under some circumstances, you'll need to take everything apart to remove the twist-tie(s)", nor will they say that some kinds of plastic won't dry well, they'll make mealy-mouthed noises to the tune of "use a rinse agent" *even* if the machine has an exposed heater and "heated dry".

All the machines I've had, since the 70's, would have dry stuff by the morning. All of them would have some piece of plastic that is *not* _perfectly_ dry at the very end of the cycle. In fact, I had machines with a heated dry (exposed element and all) and a fan (Maytag was one) that didn't dry nearly as well as the GE Profile that had the exposed element but no fan (just an "active" vent door). Neither of the previous machines I had dried any better than the two I had/have with "condensation" drying.

This conversation is just as ridiculous as the fight about manual vs. automatic transmission. My own dad (a professor of mechanical engineering, no less) kept fighting me about how a manual transmission was more efficient and never bothered to find out if there were anything more modern/better than the old 2- or 3-speed hydraulic torque converter transmissions, until I was on my second car with an electronic 5- or 6-speed transmission. He had to stay with us for 10 days or so and realize we had cars with way more power than his cars and used *less* gas than he did to convince himself it was not the "automatic" part that was a problem, but the design and, on top of it, that he, as the user, did not and could not switch gears as often or as fast as the newer automatic transmissions. He is now on his third or fourth car with an automatic and claims there's no way he will go back to a manual.

I'd like to also say I'm sorry if I keep hitting on the same key all the time. I am usually fine (and used to) just letting things go when I realize I'm talking to people who don't know better, because appliances are not the thing they pay attention to or try to learn about, it's just a "robot" that gets them rid of some chores.

I do get frustrated though when I'm among people who *do* have an interest in this field and *do* know about more manufacturers, models etc than the average and still keep repeating what is literally propaganda from manufacturers.

Anyway, there, I'm putting my soapbox away. Soap is not low-sudsing enough for dishwashers anyway.

††††††-- Paulo.

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