Thread Number: 79051  /  Tag: Refrigerators
My General Electric Refrigerator/Bottom Mount Freezer. P1
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Post# 1030013   4/16/2019 at 00:06 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Part of the haul of vintage appliances from Newport, R.I. . Thanks to Jeannine (spacepig) for posting the ad, John (combo52) for letting me know, and a huge thank you to Scott (searsbest) for helping move and load those heavy appliances.

 

This is a General Electric Model TCF19DBC Serial # LB631067, If I am reading the code correctly, it was manufactured on January, 1969. As stated before, it is in remarkable condition for it's age. I was so impressed that I decided to replace my current G.E. Frost Guard with this one. The following are pictures taken in Brooklyn.




This post was last edited 04/16/2019 at 00:29



Post# 1030014 , Reply# 1   4/16/2019 at 00:14 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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1

2

3


Post# 1030015 , Reply# 2   4/16/2019 at 00:23 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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5

6

7

8

9

12

13


Post# 1030016 , Reply# 3   4/16/2019 at 00:27 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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And that compressor, before and after.

 

14

15

16

17


Post# 1030017 , Reply# 4   4/16/2019 at 00:34 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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That is a beautiful fridge Louie! They just donít make them like this anymore, and the condition of yours is flawless. I especially like those beautiful, blue, porcelain crisper drawers. Not like the plastic, throw away crap they make now. You ought to get many years of service from this one.

Congratulations on the score.

Eddie


Post# 1030019 , Reply# 5   4/16/2019 at 01:24 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Eddie thank you...

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

However, there is bad news. It doesn't work. Yup, from one bad G.E. to another. So here are the symptoms:

 

1) It lights up, fan in the refrigerator compartment goes on.

2) Fan in freezer compartment does not turn on.

3) Condenser fan does not turn on.

4) Compressor does not start.

5) Refrigerator compartment starts to get hot (sound familiar?). Like stuck on the defrost cycle.

6) Amp draw is 0.737

 

18

 

7) Should be 5.8

 

4

 

Soooo, there you have it. I am open to suggestions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Post# 1030028 , Reply# 6   4/16/2019 at 06:52 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

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Oh no, Louis, I'm so sorry to hear this. The fridge looks beautiful. Hope it's an easy fix.

Post# 1030030 , Reply# 7   4/16/2019 at 07:09 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Louis, the fridge looks great, but I'm so disappointed to hear that it doesn't seem to be working!

It sounds as if there may be a couple of issues from what you are describing. Perhaps the defrost timer is stuck and forcing the system into a permanent-defrost cycle. There may be a way to manually advance it out of defrost mode.

There may also be an issue with a starting/running relay - I gave up too quickly on a really old Westinghouse fridge that wouldn't cool and it turned out to be a bad relay. I wish I knew more and could offer better suggestions, but I'm rooting for you! It's a beauty of a fridge for sure. Betty Draper would be proud.... LOL


Post# 1030065 , Reply# 8   4/16/2019 at 14:06 by RP2813 (Too many people know the way)        

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I bought a relay for my '57 Combination that it didn't need.  I don't know if it's the right replacement for this later fridge, but it's Louie's if he wants it.

 

I really, really hope the compressor didn't give up due to the condenser never having been cleaned.


Post# 1030085 , Reply# 9   4/16/2019 at 18:11 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        
Nonworking fridge....

Hey, it sounds like it's stuck in Defrost. If the compressor was bad, it would almost always do one of two things... A; click off and on with the overload. This would cause periodic dimming of the lights and clicking and humming off and on.

Or, it would actually run, and make a motor running sound without actually cooling.

For it to do "nothing" it's almost certainly an electrical problem in the fridge. I know that John (combo52) is much more well-versed in these than I am; but if I remember from reading his posts, the freezer fan stopping is a sigh of Defrost mode being active. If it didn't ever cycle on, then the timer may be stuck.


Post# 1030088 , Reply# 10   4/16/2019 at 18:48 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Thanks David...

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John (and Paul) were thinking the same thing...perhaps it is stuck on defrost mode. I'm going to attempt to advance the timer 1/8. It's located in the freezer compartment. If it's still a no go, the relay may be the culprit. I am hopeful.


Post# 1030132 , Reply# 11   4/17/2019 at 15:18 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Tiny update...

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When freezer temp control is on and you hold in the door switch, you can hear a whine. But condenser fan, the compressor and freezer fan remain non operational. I'm waiting for the pain killers to kick in so I can get on my back and advance the defrost timer.

 

f2

f1

f5


Post# 1030211 , Reply# 12   4/18/2019 at 16:18 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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The defrost timer moves freely, and I can hear it working. I advanced it, no change.

 

ff2

 

The freezer fan is toast. It has seized, can barely turn it, it's also seems to have broken loose from it's mounting.

 

ff1

 

 

 

 


Post# 1030213 , Reply# 13   4/18/2019 at 16:32 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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I hear these fans are easily replaceable. So now I will need a part number.


Post# 1030227 , Reply# 14   4/18/2019 at 18:03 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        

Interesting about the fan. I bet that will be easy to change.

As for the timer, if there is no change when it's moved then the contacts are probably bad in the timer. It's likely not sending power to the compressor.


Post# 1030229 , Reply# 15   4/18/2019 at 18:30 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Thanks David.

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Would a new,  generic defrost timer work or would I need to find a NOS replacement?


Post# 1030232 , Reply# 16   4/18/2019 at 19:34 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Some shots of the defrost timer and freezer fan.

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Defrost timer:

 

ff8

ff7

 

There are aftermarket defrost timers that can work.

 

Freezer fan:

 

ff6

ff5

 

John (combo52) suggested to lubricate the shaft with Turbine oil.


Post# 1030233 , Reply# 17   4/18/2019 at 19:43 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Looks like I found the correct timer...

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Post# 1030261 , Reply# 18   4/19/2019 at 10:58 by Northwesty (Renton, WA)        
it

That old timer really is toast I would drill out those rivets and take a look inside. You might be able to tweak and clean it.

Post# 1030268 , Reply# 19   4/19/2019 at 12:43 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
It's an idea Brian...

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However, John feels the defrost timer is most likely good. So I'm moving on to the compressor and the starter relay. Now where did I put that multimeter?


Post# 1030280 , Reply# 20   4/19/2019 at 14:40 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Looks like the freezer evaporator fan is a goner. I lubricated it with a couple of drops of Turbine oil and it loosed it up considerably. However, when I connected it directly, all it did was hum, it would not even attempt to turn.

 

ff12

ff11


Post# 1030301 , Reply# 21   4/19/2019 at 19:30 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
General Electric Evaporator Motor Mod. WR60X60

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I've found an NOS replacement evaporator motor for $59.95 and a modern replacement for $19.95.


Post# 1030308 , Reply# 22   4/19/2019 at 21:13 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Well it's over. This refrigerator is too tall to fit under my kitchen wall cabinets, by an inch. I can't replace the cabinets so this was all for naught. Thank God I didn't buy parts. I still have a few options though. I'll keep you all posted.


Post# 1030330 , Reply# 23   4/20/2019 at 08:46 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

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Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this Louis, especially after all of the time, energy, and resources you put into getting it.

Post# 1030332 , Reply# 24   4/20/2019 at 08:55 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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I know Jeannine. I had so much going on that week, and I figured it would fit. Width wise I was spot on, but height wise missed it. Anyway, depending how the compressor checks out later today I'll decide what to do next. If there is a silver lining, at least these appliances were saved.


Post# 1030371 , Reply# 25   4/20/2019 at 20:09 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Some good news...

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According to the multimeter, the compressor checked out OK. The starter relay wires were in bad shape. They literally crumbled. Unknown if there was a break before I pulled it off but I am willing to bet there was. If the refrigerator is salvageable, there is a way I can keep it, at least for the time being. I can remove my current G.E. refrigerator from the utility closet, put that in the kitchen, and place the Newport G.E. in the utility closet. No problem with room there. Next stop a starter relay and some new wiring.




This post was last edited 04/20/2019 at 21:34
Post# 1030382 , Reply# 26   4/20/2019 at 21:32 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

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Louis, glad to hear that there's still some hope for you and this fridge. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Post# 1030578 , Reply# 27   4/22/2019 at 19:35 by mtn1584 (USA)        
Where is your Maytag 806?

I have been waiting for pictures for a long time!
Is it finished? If not what are you using?
Mike


Post# 1030581 , Reply# 28   4/22/2019 at 19:52 by ken (Ulster Hgts, NY)        

ken's profile picture
This might seem obvious but do you have the feet adjusted all the way in? If not might give the extra space you need to fit under the cabinets.

Post# 1030585 , Reply# 29   4/22/2019 at 21:24 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Even with the feet off it is still too tall Ken.  Just ordered a new starter/relay. Hopefully the G.E. will be in service by this weekend. I desperately need a second refrigerator. My current one is packed.

 

Mike, I still have to remove the inner tub. Eventually I will get to it. I'm currently using a compact Magic Chef washer.


Post# 1030939 , Reply# 30   4/27/2019 at 01:10 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Success!

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The compressor is running! I used the ubiquitous Supco 3 'n 1  starter/relay. Amp draw is around 4.0. Normal draw should be 5.6. I imagine the amp draw is lower because only the relay is connected to the compressor.

 

c2

c1


Post# 1030940 , Reply# 31   4/27/2019 at 01:26 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Now...

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Can someone tell me what is this? It was located right next to the old starter/relay. One of the broken leads goes to the compressor fan.

 

c6

 

And this? Some sort of pig tail? The bottom 2 wires are the power cord.

 

c7

 

I need to splice in some new wiring, but before I cut, I need to know what is what.

 

 


Post# 1030984 , Reply# 32   4/27/2019 at 16:36 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

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Louis, thanks for keeping us updated on your fridge. Glad to hear you were able to get the compressor running. Jeannine

Post# 1030996 , Reply# 33   4/27/2019 at 18:08 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Thanks Jeannine!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

I am sorting out the final wiring now.


Post# 1030997 , Reply# 34   4/27/2019 at 18:09 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        

Hi Louis! That's great news. That round thing with the broken terminal looks like the motor's overload breaker. The Supco device has its own breaker in it so that one will not be necessary.

Is that "pigtail" piece what broke off the overload breaker?


Post# 1030999 , Reply# 35   4/27/2019 at 18:21 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Because I am using the 3'n1, I must find out where certain wires will go now.

 

This is the secondary relay that was located right next to the plug-in relay on the compressor: The numbers are to keep track of what wire went where originally.

 

c4

 

Notice tab #2 on relay seemed to have broken off. However I cannot find a wire that would had gone there.

 

#1 and  #2 wires go to the power cord.

 

b1

 

b2

b3

 

 

 

 


Post# 1031002 , Reply# 36   4/27/2019 at 18:36 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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And here is the plugin relay that was substituted with the 3 'n 1:

 

Notice #3 wire tab has broken off as well.

a1

 

#3 wire is the pigtail that comes off the power cord.

a4

 

UPDATE: John (Combo52) has informed me there never was a #3 tab on the relay. So where would the #3 wire go to?

 

 

#4 wire goes to the condenser fan.

a5

 

Other images of the plugin relay.

a2

a3


Post# 1031003 , Reply# 37   4/27/2019 at 18:41 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Hi Dave! I believe the #3 wire snapped off the plugin relay. So the wires that are no longer necessary for the overload relay, do I just cap them? There are a lot of bare wires where the insulation had just crumbled off. I've never seen such bad wiring.


Post# 1031057 , Reply# 38   4/28/2019 at 05:41 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
There Is Hope

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Regarding reply #30, 4 amps is about right, 5 or 6 would be too high except under extreme operating conditions.

 

Plug the ref in and let the compressor run for a while and see if it starts to cool on the freezers evaporator and the condenser should get pretty or even hot to the touch as well, if so you have a good chance it still has a decent R-12 charge in it.

 

John


Post# 1031062 , Reply# 39   4/28/2019 at 06:43 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Thanks John!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Now where do I connect the condenser fan's #4 wire?


Post# 1031177 , Reply# 40   4/29/2019 at 05:00 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Well, good news and bad news...

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

First the good news. It's cooling like nobodies business!

 

The bad news, the condenser fan will not come on.

 

I capped two wires that originally went to the overload relay. I am curious, what is the white arrow pointing to? One of the capped wires originated from there.

q1

 


Post# 1031178 , Reply# 41   4/29/2019 at 05:04 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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And the dead fan.  It was removed, cleaned and oiled. I hooked it up directly, and it tested fine. Placement of the starter relay and wiring is only temporary.

 

q2


Post# 1031179 , Reply# 42   4/29/2019 at 05:15 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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I ran the fridge (sans condenser fan) for about 20 minutes. The compressor was getting noisier and you can smell a hot odor, not burning, but when something is getting too hot. Temperature in the refrigerator section dropped from 78F to 60F in that time period. There is no evaporator fan in the freezer section since I am still waiting for a replacement motor (supposedly arriving today). Regardless the freezer was getting cold. Amp usage hovered around 4.6. If anything, it seems the refrigerator still has a good charge in it.




This post was last edited 04/29/2019 at 09:42
Post# 1031286 , Reply# 43   4/29/2019 at 21:24 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        

Hey that valve with the arrow appears to be the hot-gas defrost valve. It is similar to a reversing valve on a heat-pump where it sends pressurized refrigerant in the reverse direction, to the evaporator, to melt the frost.

These compressors are known for wearing out, so please give it some cooling air. These really aren't meant to run for any amount of time w/o a fan.

EDIT: As for the hot smell, the Supco start device uses a heat-operated starting circuit cut-out device. It is a solid-state device made of a ceramic material which becomes less conductive when hot. The current passing through it heats it up, and after a predetermined amount of time, it becomes effectively an open circuit. The device stays extremely hot while the compressor is running, and may smell a little when new. It's called a PTC thermistor, by the way.


Post# 1031330 , Reply# 44   4/30/2019 at 08:45 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Hey Dave! Thanks for your input. So the hot gas defrost valve had a wire going to a relay that has now been removed (because of the 3'n1). Is it OK to leave that wire capped? Or does it need to be connected somewhere else?


Post# 1031340 , Reply# 45   4/30/2019 at 10:21 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Hot Gas Defrost valve Wiring

combo52's profile picture
Hi Louis, this part still must be wired to the refs wiring harness for he ref to fully work properly

At this point try to get a wiring diagram for this ref, this will help a lot.

John


Post# 1031347 , Reply# 46   4/30/2019 at 12:05 by kenwashesmonday (Haledon, NJ)        

I don't believe it's been mentioned that, once you get the condenser fan running, it's very important to replace the cardboard rear cover or it will overheat.


Post# 1031351 , Reply# 47   4/30/2019 at 12:35 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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Hi John! Yeah I was afraid of that. Even though there is one wire (blue) that is connected. running through the back of the refrigerator. I sorta' suspected that other wire needed to be placed as well. Now, to find a wiring diagram for this model. I suspect this will be a daunting task.


Post# 1031352 , Reply# 48   4/30/2019 at 12:38 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Hi Ken!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Thanks! I am aware of the importance of putting back the cover. The cover helps keep the airflow towards the compressor and condenser.


Post# 1031370 , Reply# 49   4/30/2019 at 16:23 by Searsbest (Attleboro, Ma)        
GE Bottom mount

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Louis, it was an absolute pleasure to help you rescue those appliances! Glad to see that refrigerator come back to life!

Post# 1031419 , Reply# 50   4/30/2019 at 21:01 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Thanks Scott!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

I owe it all to you buddy!


Post# 1031524 , Reply# 51   5/2/2019 at 00:27 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

The condenser fan is working (loose connection, DOH!).

 

f1

 

In addition, the NOS freezer evaporator fan has been installed and working.

 

I covered up the back, and it's cooling. We'll see where we are in awhile.

 

Here's a close-up of the hot gas defrost valve. No luck in finding a wiring schematic for this model so far. The wire that was capped went to the overload relay.

 

f2


Post# 1031527 , Reply# 52   5/2/2019 at 01:32 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
After an hour of operation...

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Temperature in refrigerator section has dropped to 38F. Freezer is ice cold. As I feared, the compressor has not cycled off yet. I really need to resolve the the hot gas defrost valve issue.

 

Anyone have any idea where that wire would go?

 

Or perhaps it is the defrost timer?




This post was last edited 05/02/2019 at 05:46
Post# 1031529 , Reply# 53   5/2/2019 at 02:02 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

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OK, I raised the thermostats in the refrigerator and freezer sections. The evaporator fans turned off. Temp in refrigerator section now reads 44F. However the condenser fan is still on, and I think the compressor is still running. AMP. draw is 4.1. 


Post# 1031533 , Reply# 54   5/2/2019 at 05:35 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        

In agreement with John, it sounds like a wiring diagram is in order for you!

Probably the broken wire to the defrost valve was a neutral connection.

I believe that the defrost system was actuated by a timer and cycled off by temperature. If the defrost valve never shifts over, the compressor will keep running. This is because the temperature switch to end the defrost cycle will never change state and allow the timer to move past defrost.

If the fans in the cabinet are both stopped that would possibly indicate this is your issue.

Again hopefully a wiring diagram can be found.

I love the style of this one, just don't have experience with anything this "new" LOL!


Post# 1031534 , Reply# 55   5/2/2019 at 06:02 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Hi Dave!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

What if I reconnected that capped wire to the original overload relay?

 

G.E. Guardette 3ARG1C28

w1

w2

w3


Post# 1031757 , Reply# 56   5/4/2019 at 05:18 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Well I reconnected the wires to the Guardet overload relay (using new wires), annnd nothing. Compressor and condenser fan do not cycle off. Still cooling fine, evaporator fans cycle on and off. Bad overload relay? Something else?


Post# 1031766 , Reply# 57   5/4/2019 at 08:21 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Oh boy!

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It just keeps getting better and better. Both evaporator fans have stopped working. Refrigerator temp at 60F and rising. Freezer still cold. Ice frozen solid, not melting. Compressor and condenser fan are still on. AMP. draw is 4.0.


Post# 1031805 , Reply# 58   5/4/2019 at 17:17 by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)        

So frustrating!

Hope a wiring diagram can be found!


Post# 1031819 , Reply# 59   5/4/2019 at 19:43 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

John suggested something is miswired with the 3 'n 1. Here we go again. How I wish I could find the schismatic.


Post# 1031824 , Reply# 60   5/4/2019 at 20:57 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        
Louis,

spacepig's profile picture
What age of refrigerator do you think would be comparable? I have a service manual for a '61, and I can check behind my '65 to see if there is a schematic.

Jeannine


Post# 1031826 , Reply# 61   5/4/2019 at 21:09 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Hi Jennine. I would imagine the 1965 is the closest to mine if you have it. I now believe mine is a 1968 model. Judging from the amount of bare/broken wiring I found, I'd say this refrigerator has been out of service for many years, which may explain why it's so pristine. So far, every time I put in my model number I have gotten nothing.


Post# 1031829 , Reply# 62   5/4/2019 at 21:25 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

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Louis, I don't think there's anything on the back of the '65, but I can look tomorrow. I also have a '64 Americana, and I'll check it, too. Jeannine

Post# 1031832 , Reply# 63   5/4/2019 at 23:24 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

It's OK Jeannine. No worries. But you did give me an idea to look at schismatics of other G.E. 's. 


Post# 1031864 , Reply# 64   5/5/2019 at 11:11 by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)        

spacepig's profile picture
Hi Louis, Unfortunately, I have not had much luck. Neither of the Americanas have a wiring diagram on the back, nor did the 1965. I did attach pictures from the 1961 manual for model number TC-469V which is top fridge with swing out shelves and bottom freezer, although it may be too old to be similar. These are just the diagrams, there are a few other pages about electrical parts that I can scan for you. I've also attached pictures of the compressor from one of the Americanas, and also of the 1965 Coppertone when we had the back off to blow out the dust before installing it in the house. Not sure if any of this is helpful.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 7         View Full Size
Post# 1031879 , Reply# 65   5/5/2019 at 15:07 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Wiring Diagrams For GE FG Hot Gas Defrost Ref

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Thanks Jeannine, Your 61 diagram is the one needed except the compressor is the older one that has four terminals instead of three like Louie's, so the wiring between the older style relay and condenser fan motor are different, but that does not matter as Louie is using the newer 3 in 1 relay.

 

John


Post# 1031921 , Reply# 66   5/6/2019 at 03:22 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
Jeannine, THANK YOU!

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

I already caught where I made a mistake with a wire (hot gas defroster). I'll keep you all posted!


Post# 1038386 , Reply# 67   7/16/2019 at 02:58 by Ultramatic (New York City)        

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

A quickie. It's a 19 C model (18.8C). Date of manufacture was June, 1965 not January, 1969. (by 1968, models had wheels and wood tone door handles). 





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