Thread Number: 79102  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
VMW WTW4930XW1 Trouble
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Post# 1030353   4/20/2019 at 15:28 (1,777 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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At one of RJ's rental properties.

Complaint:† Not working.

Secondary complaint:† Dryer takes too long.

Fault Codes:† F7 E1 (basket speed sensor fault); F7 E5 (motor unable to reach target RPM)

Observation:† Agitator runs in only one direction (clockwise), does not oscillate.† No spin, basket is locked/jammed, cannot be rotated by hand at any time, whether actuator/mode shifter is in agitate or spin.

Diagnosis:† No spin/jammed basket = broken splutch or bad transmission?† Agitation failure = bad transmission or bad capacitor?

Have not yet pulled machine out for examination.† Waiting for confirmation whether tenants need it to get caught up on laundry (without consideration of it not working, LOL), and/or whether one of my spares will be temporarily swapped-in.

Post# 1030362 , Reply# 1   4/20/2019 at 17:52 (1,777 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Sounds more like the speed sensor is your main culprit there. That should be integrated in the mode shifter if I'm not mistaken which could also be the cause of the agitation issues.

Appears to me that the PCB reverses the motor after it saw the speed sensor reporting a certain speed and direction for a certain time.

That could also be the PCB however.

Did you physicly confirm the mode shifter actually even tries to switch?

If it does I would guess on more physical damage rather then the capacitor...

But that's just guessing here...

Post# 1030370 , Reply# 2   4/20/2019 at 20:02 (1,777 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Tip it back , look at the capacitor. The two fault codes are one in the same. They both point at the shifter. The stuck tub sounds like a different issue, if it was it would throw a different code. Look for clothes between the tubs. The tub should move regardless of shifter position.

The agitating one way is a curve ball, thatís usually a capacitor issue.

Post# 1030373 , Reply# 3   4/20/2019 at 20:17 (1,777 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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The shifter/actuator seems to work.† It clicks/clacks when selecting agitation or spin in diagnostics.

This is the machine that previously had a small bootie-sock jammed in the pump ... so it's a given that the tenants overload it (although I "sternly" instructed them against it after the sock incident).

There are no local parts sources, anything needed must be ordered.† I have a spare pump, ordered one at the sock incident when finding that it didn't run, before pulling the machine down to investigate ... kept the new pump for future use.

Haven't yet heard back from the tenants regards to swapping-in a loaner machine, so the VMW isn't yet out for investigation.† Surely will pull the basket to check for a stray item.† If that solves that problem, maybe will order both a capacitor and actuator.

Post# 1031027 , Reply# 4   4/27/2019 at 20:30 (1,770 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Model-year 2010.† Serial 2012 16th wk.

Fetched the machine this afternoon for examination (swapped-in my GSQ9669LW1 for the interim, which is 9 years older and in 1000x better condition, LOL).

The basket that was previously locked-up-tight somehow corrected during the past 7 days.† It had a slight drag when I first checked it today but then loosened-up to feel normal.

It still doesn't spin.† Manual diagnostic, High or Low spin, it makes the slightest nudge, and nothing.† The lid lock then won't release unless the power cord is pulled/reconnected.† The lock does release after any other manual diagnostic test, just not after a spin attempt.

It still doesn't oscillate for agitation, only runs clockwise.

Pulled the basket just to see, no piece of clothing or other foreign object under it.

The capacitor seems to test good if I'm doing that correctly ... ohms mode, reads 0 then infinity on each swap across the terminals.† I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

The actuator/mode shifter shifts for both agitate and spin.† Is it perhaps bad regards to the RPM sensing function?

Same fault codes as before.

Note in the pics, the cracked back edge of the tub, broken top edge of the tub ring in the same area, and the lower edge of the tub ring is broken such that there's no anchor on three of the tub tabs.† Mystery how that happened.

Pic 13 shows the crack-out on the edge of the tub beneath the tub ring in normal position.† Pic 14 I'm pulling upwards on the tub ring.

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Post# 1031028 , Reply# 5   4/27/2019 at 20:34 (1,770 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Considering the age and amount of broken/iffy parts I'd just replace the entire machine.

Rental property yes, but it may be worth looking into a Speed Queen ;) Treat your fellow brothers and sisters right ;)

Post# 1031032 , Reply# 6   4/27/2019 at 20:49 (1,770 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
RPM sensor

Machine won't unlock after a spin was attempted unless it can verify the tub is standing still.

During agitation tests it locks into agitation and won't check for motor rpm probably, and reversing for agitation might depend on rpm checks.
Is the agitation intermittent or a continous movement?

Post# 1031072 , Reply# 7   4/28/2019 at 08:37 (1,769 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Considering the age ... oh my!† It's only 7 years per the serial.† RJ bought it used 3 years ago from a local WP dealer.† Their story was that it needed a repair for a part that was on backorder and the customer didn't want to wait so bought a new machine, and they (the dealer) sold the machine (after the repair) as a used/refurb.

I've zeroed-in on the capacitor as the problem, I think.

Agitation is intermittent motor operation as it should be, it just runs in the same direction on each pulse.† I could be wrong but I don't think the RPM sensor is involved in agitation.

Spin test, the motor nudges a bit then quits as if it's trying but can't get going.

Apparently I wasn't waiting long enough for it to unlock.† What happens after a spin test in Diagnostics ... any further agitation or spin tests (that involve motor operation) or lock/unlock test results in all the lights flashing together quickly three times --- flash-flash-flash -- then the lights for the selected test function flash slowly.† Non-motor tests (inlet valves or pump) operate the target component.† I waited longer after a (lock)/unlock test and it did unlock.

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Post# 1031103 , Reply# 8   4/28/2019 at 16:02 (1,769 days old) by Supersurgilator (Indiana)        

I certainly hope you can get it back up and running and get your other machine out of their house! With the abuse this machine has seen, I'd hate to see the other get trashed. If I was a renter, forget a SQ, I'd just get them the cheapest thing possible, knowing it won't be taken care of.

Post# 1031582 , Reply# 9   5/2/2019 at 15:21 (1,765 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Capacitor was the agitation & spin fix.

Except ... the spin bearing is bad.† Roars like a train.† Presumably that's why the basket was seized at the initial exam, the machine hadn't spun properly in several weeks and it got stuck?† Begs the question of why/how did it loosen-up now.

Post# 1031688 , Reply# 10   5/3/2019 at 12:49 (1,764 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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RJ's reaction is ... they (the tenants) are used to it (the noise) by now and with my luck something else major will go wrong if the transmission is replaced so let's put it back there as-is.

Is there a potential for leaking on the floor through the compromised tub seal & bearing?† He has wood laminate flooring at that rental (yes, in the laundry closet).† The tenants aren't going to notice a small drip/leak which can do enough damage over time to be a problem.

I found a transmission for $150 incl shipping.† Thing is I have a spare new pump from the previous jammed-sock incident (which I've swapped-in and it runs much better than the original pump), and also already invested in the capacitor and a tub ring.† The machine isn't worth $325 for repair when a new Amana at Home Depot is going for $397 or a Roper at Lowes for $399.† A few used transmissions for much less are on eBay but I don't trust used condition on that item.

Both sisters have VMW machines (one is a Kenmore also at a rental property, the other an Amana but 6 hrs away) so the pump and capacitor (if both take the same items) work as a spares for those ...

Post# 1031700 , Reply# 11   5/3/2019 at 15:58 (1,764 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Donít fix it. Itís never just the gearcase. There are some pieces that you will likely have to break to remove the gearcase.

Post# 1031729 , Reply# 12   5/3/2019 at 19:30 (1,764 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I don't expect RJ will want the repair done ... I don't have the space to store another refreshed machine so am unlikely to do it for myself.

I'm curious, what all parts/pieces may need to be broken for the removal?† I suspect the drive pulley would be an effort to remove and possibly break in the process.† I've already removed and reinstalled the agitator and basket.† I'd expect the basket drive block would need refreshing.

Post# 1031747 , Reply# 13   5/3/2019 at 23:06 (1,764 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Replacing the transmission in a VMW WP Built Washer

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It is not that hard to do and you are unlikely to have to break parts to get it done, BUT unless you can get the parts for less than the regular price of around $300+ it just is not worth the effort for such a poor durability-poor performing machine.


John L.

Post# 1033562 , Reply# 14   5/24/2019 at 20:13 (1,743 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I asked RJ last week "What am I supposed to do with the machinery on my patio?"

"I thought you're fixing it."

OK, allrightythen.

Found a transmission for $119 and some cents from an online source, under an older part number.† Add a basket drive block and extra shipping for the "large" item, total $159.

As Combo says above, it's an easy-enough job.

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Post# 1033563 , Reply# 15   5/24/2019 at 20:15 (1,743 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Post# 1033565 , Reply# 16   5/24/2019 at 20:40 (1,743 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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How the splutch drive works ...

1)† The agitate (inside, metal) and spin (outside, plastic) drive shafts are concentric.

2)† Splutch spring.

The basket drive gear sits atop the cam ring in the splutch housing.† The ring and housing have molded bosses that lift or lower the drive gear when the ring rotates forward or back as controlled by the mode shifter / actuator.

3)† Spin position, the basket drive gear is lowered.

4)† Agitate position, the basket drive gear is raised.

5)† The basket drive gear mates to the outer basket drive on the transmission.

6)† The transmission drive pulley mounts to the inner agitate drive shaft on the transmission.† It has splines molded into the top surface.

The basket drive gear is lifted up away from the pulley splines when the mode shifter is in agitate position so the pulley drives only the agitate shaft (the basket drive shaft rotates/indexes during agitation due to friction between the shafts and lack of a brake to hold the basket from turning).

The basket drive gear is moved down to mate to the pulley splines when the mode shifter is in spin position, which has the pulley driving both the agitate and spin shafts on the transmission.

7 & 8)† Mode shifter / actuator.† The two white plastic pieces at the left is the RPM sensor.† It fits up into the slot in the transmission housing and optically reads the rotation of the basket via the notched gear that's coupled to the basket drive.

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Post# 1033566 , Reply# 17   5/24/2019 at 20:41 (1,743 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Post# 1033572 , Reply# 18   5/24/2019 at 22:07 (1,743 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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Thank you for the detailed pictures and explanations.


I must say the mode-shifter / actuator part (reply #16, photo 7) doesn't look very robust.


Post# 1033574 , Reply# 19   5/24/2019 at 22:23 (1,743 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The system moves rather slowly (about 10sec I would guestimate per shift) and shouldn't have to move much weight or against much of any force.

And that is the funny thing: These shifters - from what me finds online - rarely ever physicly fail.

What often fails are the RPS and mode shifter position sensors, resulting in the often eratic failure picture and the well known coresponding error codes.

If the machine can't know if the tub moves or not, it will always default to fail save and keep the lid locked, the motor off and the mode shifter probably in agitate position until it has a known state.

Post# 1033716 , Reply# 20   5/27/2019 at 03:40 (1,740 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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The load on the mode shifter is essentially only the force of the spring and the force needed to move/lift the cam ring over the housing bosses.

There is no "slipping" spin clutch ... neither a clutch lining nor a slipping belt.† Spin is a positive drive via the spin gear splines mated to the drive pulley splines.

Spin acceleration is handled via motor torque and RPM.

Post# 1034164 , Reply# 21   6/1/2019 at 19:15 (1,735 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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The machine runs the auto-test cycle OK, Rinse & Spin no trouble, full Normal/Light cycle, no trouble.

However, calibration fails.† Pump on, lid locks, actuator shifts to agitate, a few agitation strokes, actuator shifts to spin, the pump continues to run and nothing else happens.† Turns off after 5+ mins either with all lights off, or in one case with all lights on.† Or maybe always with all lights on until it times-out and powers fully off.

It did run calibration successfully some months ago at the sock-in-pump incident.

How important is a successful calibration?

Everything I find online indicates fix is replace the machine board.

RJ won't be impressed.

Maybe I won't tell him, and eat that cost myself.

Post# 1034170 , Reply# 22   6/1/2019 at 20:51 (1,735 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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This poor machine has been treated like crap. Iíll disagree to my grave that VMWs like this one are poor performing or poorly built. The 4800 model I had that was bought in 2012 is a fantastic machine both build and performance-wise, and since giving it to my aunt whose Ď98 WCI-Frigidaire finally gave out two years ago, itís still chugging away washing 2-3 loads a day with 6 peoplesí worth of laundry. As much as I loved my Oasis-BravosXL and the Whirlpool WFW92HEF front load set I have now, I do sometimes regret letting that machine go. The only complaint I ever remember having about it was the lid lock; otherwise I was never disappointed in the cleaning or rinsing ability, and it could turn heavy loads over like a champ.

Post# 1034612 , Reply# 23   6/5/2019 at 21:09 (1,731 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        
VMW Calibration

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The only vid I find on YouTube that shows the calibration cycle is Eugene/Lorain Furniture running it on an impeller model.† Starts the pump, four agitation strokes, pump runs a bit longer, then shifts to spin mode, turns the pump off, and runs three spin accelerations/coast-downs, and runs a bit of water at some point.

My specimen runs the pump, agitates, engages spin mode but doesn't shut off the pump or do any spins, and I think no water ... then eventually times-out and turns off.† It runs a rinse/spin or drain/spin with no trouble so the mode shifter/RPM sensor apparently is OK.† It also runs the automatic test cycle with no trouble.† Presumably bad board but why doesn't that trigger any trouble during a cycle?

Post# 1034643 , Reply# 24   6/6/2019 at 14:32 (1,730 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Mine the same;

Following bearing replacement in 2015 under extended warranty, shortly following the repair, it stopped slow spin filling. Only static fills now, except on the rinse. The sensing light still lights up. It sense spins twice on hand wash like always. Normal cycle fills half full tub of water. Bulky cycle fills all the way up as wash advances like always has. Too much water for small loads, so I only use hand wash, except for comforters.
Recalibration made no difference. Not worth parts or bother now. It's almost 11 years old. When it stops spinning on high, or won't work, it's on the curb.
People tell me their techs. say the Samsung and LG parts are more widely available, and cost less than Whirlpool. Front or top load. Durability about the same with all. I dunno. Amazon has all kinds of Whirlpool parts, and the others.
The front load spider for a Whirlpool product does cost more on there. Seems stupid to spend another $200 for a front loader pedestal, when a high end top loader costs less, except the water use issue. I save water. I don't water the lawn. It comes back every year following hot summer drought dormancy. If I wash the car, its with a bucket to wash, one to rinse. I water garden plants with a can. I clean out and scrub the gutters and trim by hand, let the rain rinse them.
City came by in October claiming our water use was too low. I let them replace the meter. It went up maybe $10 to $20 for 3 months, Our toilets and faucets are low flow since 2017. Last kid also moved out. Thats when the bill dropped. I explained that to them. My neighbors also mo kids, told me their bill was about $90 for 3 months. I had called a year earlier complaining it seemed to be way too high.
We are now empty nesters.

Post# 1035243 , Reply# 25   6/13/2019 at 12:15 (1,723 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I changed the control board, same result on Calibration ... so I assume that's correct behavior on this model??

I watched this time all the way to the end:
††- Status lights flash a rolling pattern from right to left
††- lid locks
††- pump turns on
††- shifts to agitate mode
††- agitates four strokes
††- shifts to spin mode
††- pump remains on for 5-ish mins with no other action
††- pump off, all lights steady on
††- one brief spin acceleration
††- water runs a few seconds
††- turns completely off, lid unlocks

Post# 1036127 , Reply# 26   6/22/2019 at 16:53 (1,714 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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We swapped the VMW back to the renters.

My nice WP DD there for 8 weeks (longer than it seems) has a very prominent gray/scum ring at the water line on the basket and agitator.† Hard city water at that location and they're not using enough detergent to deal with it.

Post# 1036349 , Reply# 27   6/25/2019 at 07:45 (1,711 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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Looking at the broken tub and cover the shocks are definitely worn out and the machine has to be jumping around in spin unless that is old damage and the shocks have been replaced ( maybe was the issue the dealer repaired previously). Also if these machines donít shift from agitate to spin or spin to agitate within 15 seconds something is wrong with shifter. Iíve replaced shifters to correct this issue but more often Iíve put silicone lubricant on the ďsplutchĒ parts that slide to shift making it easier to slide and solving the issue almost every time. Just my two cents.

Post# 1036559 , Reply# 28   6/28/2019 at 02:36 (1,708 days old) by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        

Seeing this for the first time today. Should've S-canned this self-destructed POS.
A used DD/SQ seems an idea if avail. Oh well,spend more on boards/whatever since you're in this deep. Sheesh. Sorry for the rough IMO but dang...

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