Thread Number: 79188  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Two motors vs one
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Post# 1031101   4/28/2019 at 15:57 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Why did US DW makers always try and use one motor, when in Europe they always tried to use two motors? What advantage does one have over the other?

Post# 1031105 , Reply# 1   4/28/2019 at 16:09 by henene4 (Germany)        
Cheaper

Running 2 motors requires more in terms of controll and more so resources in the form of copper.


The US had such stuff like DW and washers a good decade before us over here cause - you know - on this part of earth there was an actual war zone while the US never really was an active war zone.

At war yes, in war not really.

Basicly we were behind by the time it took us to rebuild in terms of widespread appliance adoption.



So EU designs were - for the most part - created after the effects of the war when materials were ever so slightly cheaper and technology was ever so little more advanced.

And true to an engineers most important sentiment ("Never change a running system!") they just plainly never bothered.

Both ways worked by standards of back then.


Post# 1031111 , Reply# 2   4/28/2019 at 16:47 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Ok- so why did the US go to a more expensive and less technological design?

Post# 1031146 , Reply# 3   4/28/2019 at 20:29 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
One Motor Vs Two Or More Motors For One Appliance

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As mentioned above we had appliances earlier in the US and a motor used to be the most expensive part of most appliances so engineers needed to get the most use out of one motor if possible.

 

In a DW using a 1/3 HP motor for both washing and draining was cheaper to build at one time, but with advanced automated building of parts like motors in 3rd world countries it is cheaper to use multiple motors in most cases today.

 

The DWs that we produced in the US in the 60s through the 90s were actually more complex and and had greater engineering in them. If you look at the motor, dual pumps, and filtering systems in DWs like KA, WPs Power-Clean, MTs RR models and GEs multi-Orbit wash arm DWs with self-cleaning filters these DWs are generally complex than anything Europe ever had in large numbers at least.

 

DWs are still much less expensive and in a greater % of homes in the US than most of the western world.

 

John


Post# 1031154 , Reply# 4   4/28/2019 at 20:58 by appnut (TX)        

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I still wish one motor was still considered the norm.  I think we're being sold a bill of goods in the disguise of "quiet", thus 2 motors rather than one.  


Post# 1031161 , Reply# 5   4/28/2019 at 22:32 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Not just dishwashers

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My older Miele washer has two motors encased in one large cast iron shell. One half for washing, the other for spinning.

Suppose saving grace is when brushes die on spin side, and MieleUSA won't repair can always continue to wash without extraction long as rest of motor (and machine) hold up.

*LOL*


Post# 1031167 , Reply# 6   4/28/2019 at 23:30 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
@Launderess

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Actually your Miele has three motors, the pump has it's own motor too.

Post# 1031174 , Reply# 7   4/29/2019 at 01:54 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Thanks for the replies John L! Goes for everyone else to!


@Launderess: I think I know what you are talking about. Or is it just a 2 pole 16 pole motor?


Post# 1031175 , Reply# 8   4/29/2019 at 02:26 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
All one knows is it is a "double motor"

launderess's profile picture
One half induction, the other universal with the two motors joined to make one giant 18 kilo motor encased in cast iron.

This should explain better than I:






Post# 1031176 , Reply# 9   4/29/2019 at 03:19 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
@Louis

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Up that to five; washer has two timer motors as well.

Post# 1031181 , Reply# 10   4/29/2019 at 05:32 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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LOL

Post# 1031183 , Reply# 11   4/29/2019 at 05:53 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Wow! Thank you! :)

Never knew that such a motor existed, but hey, more to the awesomeness of appliances.


Post# 1031185 , Reply# 12   4/29/2019 at 06:40 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
These motors were very common in European machines with higher spin speeds. My mother's 1966 Bosch had a similar motor.



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Post# 1031251 , Reply# 13   4/29/2019 at 18:08 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Interesting thing

launderess's profile picture
Is how that Youtuber experiments using a VFD to control that harvested Miele motor is pretty much standard these days for modern washing machines.

Price and size of various technology has come down, which when coupled with better designs allow today's fully computer controlled washing machines to be priced reasonably.

My toplader AEG Lavamat for instance is entirely controlled off the motherboard. Pump, drum movements, spinning, etc....

My older Miele W1070 basically has only three speeds (tumbling, high and low spin) meaning it can only do so much in dealing with say OOB loads, excessive water/froth entering pump and so forth. OTOH the AEG Lavamat can slowly ramp up and down to speed (where the Miele just goes right into), and do all sorts of other fun things.

Delicate cycle on the Miele involves simply tumbling one way, pausing, then other, pause, lather rinse and repeat. The AEG Lavamats have slow gentle but continuous movement.


Post# 1031437 , Reply# 14   5/1/2019 at 00:57 by bewitched (Italy)        

The Aeg lavamat ceased to exist in the eighties. Now these are just a brand of the past on a made in Italy Electrolux machines.

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