Thread Number: 79207  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Kenmore/whirlpool 28102 leaking 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1031300   4/30/2019 at 00:30 (1,822 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

Well guys I finally tore down the 28102 I got in 2014 because the tub bearings were shot and very noisy and it finally started leaking. I got the full new shaft, bearings, and install tool. I started tearing it down Saturday, had to do other things and finished it Sunday. I am pretty sure both bearings were fully seated and then I tried to push in the rubber seal with grease on the inside and silicone on the outside. I couldn't get it to fully seat flush but it went as far as I could get it and was just over the outer shiny metal ring at the upper half of the shaft. Everything is spinning smooth and quiet now but I'm getting so far minor dripping from the outer cover for the motor with the magnets in it. Did I miss something or or is there a trick to getting the seal seated. I used the 3 inch pipe piece for shoving it down flush and even popped it with a shot dead blow hammer but it was still up maybe a quarter inch and I couldn't get it better but the silicone was oozing out and all that. So do these need to break in and seal or am I going to have to tear at least the drum out and try a new seal or tear it completely back down again and start over. I watched a few bearing replacement videos and tried to make sure everything went back like it came out and no left over parts. The old shaft was pretty nasty and beat up and especially the lower bearing was super crunchy. It hadn't appeared to be leaking before but was very dirty underneath and had finally leaked near the left corner.
Thanks for any help, Terry.




Post# 1031429 , Reply# 1   4/30/2019 at 22:59 (1,821 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
Top load HE

 I don't think I made it clear this is one of the Whirlpool Maytag direct drive units known for early tub bearing failures due to moisture making its way down the shaft and into the bearings till they rust up and fail. I got it in 2014 and by about 2016 17 it started getting slightly noisy but never appeared to leak.

Post# 1031462 , Reply# 2   5/1/2019 at 11:14 (1,821 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I have a Maytag/Bravos sibling (serial 2011) waiting a few years for a bearing job.  It's partially disassembled but haven't worked-up the gumption to finish.  I used the board-and-jack method to handle the stuck basket, haven't had that issue with any of the F&P units I've refurbed.  None of the F&Ps -- circa 1999, 2004, 2005, 2008, and 2009 -- have as-yet evidenced bad bearings.

Post# 1031497 , Reply# 3   5/1/2019 at 19:36 (1,820 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

It mostly dripped a few drops as we ran a high water wash. Today we are running normal loads with a low drip pan under it and it's so far completely dry. I was like you, didn't really want to tear it completely down as it's a lot more involved then I'm used too. I don't think any of our old school direct drive whirlpool washers ever lost a bearing or leaked from the tub shaft even when they were banging badly from a worn transmission. I'm hoping maybe the seal had to wear and seat in now that it hasn't leaked for a few loads. I will say when they're working right they're dead quiet almost and everything is clean. If you've got the bearing install tool it's not as bad as it seems to tear it down and replace everything. I just don't know why the seal didn't go flush into the tub. Maybe something didn't fully seat or got out of place but it's not making any horrible mechanical noises so I think if it's decided to stop leaking it's good to go. I did have to do the jack and a 2x4 trick too but it sure worked slick. I would suggest just pulling the whole top and control panel off as it makes everything easier and safer. I was trying to make sure the door was taped closed and used a couple of bungee cords to hold it up and the whole top still flopped over on me. Luckily it didn't break the glass or damage the mounts beyond repair so I decided to just take it off and problem solved. You have to unplug a few harness plugs and like that then you can remove the whole thing.

Post# 1031544 , Reply# 4   5/2/2019 at 07:39 (1,820 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

Hi Terry, I am glad it seems to be working now,

 

I could not comment or help with your orignal post because you did not include a good model #

 

PLEASE everyone if you are asking questions about a machine you are working on include a full model # off the tag on the appliance, if this is not possible a description of the appliance with approximate age helps and pictures are also wonderful.

 

John
Post# 1031642 , Reply# 5   5/3/2019 at 01:21 (1,819 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

Well, she ran another full water load and it appeared to leave a few dirty dried up drops on the drip pan but it was dry underneath when I checked after work. It's usable and mostly doesn't leak now and at least I have the tools now so I can replace the seal and bearings easily enough if it needs it again and just the bearings and seal is way cheaper then the whole package with the tool which still was very reasonable considering. Kinda wonder if a little leftover water was trapped somewhere in the tub I couldn't see that got flung out after it ran a while on the first run, or if the seal needs to seat a bit before it actually does it's job. I realized after I posted that all I gave was the model no. and it's old enough now most wouldn't know what type of washer it was so I added the description later but I can put in the serial and all that if needed. I also updated my original post about the noise starting in 2017 when a few here remembered the machine and had put bearings in them before but I waited till now to replace the parts.

Post# 1031648 , Reply# 6   5/3/2019 at 03:09 (1,819 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
28102 is a partial model number ... actually more of a catalog number or stock number.

The full model is (presumably) 110.28102310

A partial entry of a model number typically works as a wild-card search at SearsPartsDirect.com.  It usually needs to start from the correct beginning of the model but a few characters in the middle may also work.  In this case it needs the leading 110. or at minimum 110.281 which brings up three models one of which is correct.  By your reference that it's a Whirlpool/Kenmore, anyone who knows Kenmore model coding would know the leading characters are 110.

Post# 1031752 , Reply# 7   5/4/2019 at 00:39 (1,818 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

yeah, it's 110 etc. It's on the lid and a few other places but when I got it as a refurb back in 2014 many users here had one or were aware of it just by the top load HE 28102 model. Too bad the seal and bearing design are so fragile as otherwise it's a great machine and has saved us a lot on our water bill and also cut down the amount of loads we had to run with the 4.5 cf tub. It also spins the clothes really fairly dry which cut down quite a bit on the next year 8cf Kenmore dryer dry time we matched it up with eventually.

Post# 1032923 , Reply# 8   5/18/2019 at 00:45 (1,804 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
Kit bit the dust

 Well got home early this week and it was squeaking badly from around the shaft and was leaking enough to leave a few small puddles, plus very faint but obvious bearing noise already so going to have to replace the bearings yet again.
Obviously the seal needed to be seated all the way flush and the eBay generic all in one kit had crap Chinese bearings and seal. At least the bearing install tool is nice so I won't need that again.
I just ordered a WHIRLPOOL OEM shaft and bearing kit shipped for 58 bucks and I get to do it yet again but at least this time it will be factory parts and the sealant and lube they used as the old setup made horrible noises for a few years but didn't leak till just before I finally threw in the kit I had bought. So for anyone considering doing this repair, make sure to get the genuine Whirlpool kit or you might be redoing it a lot sooner then you should. The OEM kit should be no more then about 90 bucks, the bearing tool can be found very cheap and even the Chinese ones should be OK. You can buy the generic kits as low as 30 bucks but with all the effort to tear one of these down I now realize it wasn't worth the gamble as I didn't even get two weeks out of mine.

Post# 1033518 , Reply# 9   5/24/2019 at 01:12 (1,798 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
New oem whirlpool parts here tomorrow

Well got notification that my new Whirlpool rebuild kit will be here tomorrow 5/24 so soon will have to tear it back down and see what exactly failed and wasn't in place like it should have been. Funny thing is the weird shaft squeal went away again and the leak went back to minor drip amounts. I did pull the wash plate and nothing obviously stuck or damaged so possibly something got under the inner tub and wrapped up in the seal somehow and has come back loose and got spit out. I'm sure the bearings are already toast and will be interesting to see what the shaft, seal, and bearings look like in this short time. At least I saved the old parts so I can compare and make sure everything is lined up and exactly like what it had other than hopefully a improved rubber seal.

Post# 1033519 , Reply# 10   5/24/2019 at 03:12 (1,798 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Pictures / documentation?

Post# 1033579 , Reply# 11   5/25/2019 at 00:58 (1,797 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

OK, the new kit arrived today at 7pm. I took pics of the original shaft as it came out after running since 2014. The newest kit that arrived today assembled that came in a Whirlpool box, and the last 1 month old Chinese replacement is still in the machine so pics will have to wait till I tear it down.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 1033715 , Reply# 12   5/27/2019 at 02:31 (1,795 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
Redone today with pics.

 Well gathered back up my tools and tore it back down today to do a postmortem and replace all the parts again. I took a TON of pics to document what I found and did.
Unfortunately I got a bit too crazy with the dead blow shot mallet and the shaft flew out hard and cracked the outer tub a bit about halfway up :( I cleaned the area front and back with Acetone and put two layers of black auto silicon over them and past the area a bit and I left the back access panel off to see how that area does when we test run it tomorrow. A used tub is 121 on eBay so if worse comes to worse I can find one.
The seal was up about a quarter inch and when I knocked out the upper bearing I noticed it was pretty beat up, but it was the newer improved version with a inner tension spring. The lower bearing was already pretty rusty and was crunchy, the upper was a little rusty and seemed to run smooth still. I also found a small piece of what looked like a thin chunk of worn away metal right by the seal under the tub which was probably the horrible squeaking noises it started making. That MAY have come out of my pockets from work as I grind things and metal flashing occasionally or maybe something to do with the issues getting everything back in place and something not quite right. The new bearings pushed into place with the tool reasonably though I didn't like how the lower started so I knocked it back out and centered everything better including the tool. It wasn't in hardly at all so it just popped right back out and everything else bearing wise was good. This time I made sure the rub sleeve was as close to the upper bearing as it would go and lubed up the seal as required and it slipped over the wear sleeve by hand much farther this time and I WAS able to get it flush in the tub so I think it shouldn't leak. I also made sure the inner spacer tube and bearing seat ring was inside the tube the shaft goes into and I didn't have to beat the shaft in, it just dropped right into place till it seated against the lower bearing nicely so it's possible the spacer tube and ring were not aligned properly and cockeyed in the bore but no way to tell for sure taking it apart.
I'm going to wait till about 3pm tomorrow to test it out with water to let everything set properly and this time the kit came with the thin glue that smells like airplane glue rather then silicon and the seal grease was very opaque, almost white, and much easier to get into the inner side of the seal. I THINK the cement they use will work better then the silicon did but the seal might have gotten damaged on my first install.
I plugged it in and the display and controls as far as just changing wash modes without actually letting it fill with water and run work as usual and I do have the service manual that was inside the cabinet if I want to run the self tests though pretty sure it's fine.
I did take the control panel and lid/top off as it's much easier to deal with and no chance of breaking the lid or glass as it wont suddenly fall over while your trying to do things even when bung-geed open. Lets hope the tub repair holds, I'm pretty sure the bearings and seal are fine now and no leftover parts.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 12         View Full Size
Post# 1033760 , Reply# 13   5/27/2019 at 21:17 (1,794 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

Well ran a water only short cycle and it works fine, no leaks from the motor area and quiet again except for I'm pretty sure the pump that drains the tub kinda growling, sister says it's always made noises when draining. I didn't see any problems in the outer tub patch but the cold water hose was seeping around the seam where it is crimped so I'll probably get a new one in stainless tomorrow. The hot hose is fine on both ends. I've had quality rubber hoses last longer but it's a easy and cheap fix. I don't think the hose gasket is leaking from where I feel the water it's coming from the crimp and dripped a tiny bit right under it to the floor. The pumps appear to be easy to replace and maybe just by pulling that back inspection panel that is off till I'm happy everything is good.
SO far so good this time around and I have a spare possibly usable shaft for next time the bearings go out.

Post# 1033919 , Reply# 14   5/30/2019 at 00:02 (1,792 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
First load good.

Well got a brand new braided hose at Ace down the street today after work, sister ran a big load of jeans and no leaks underneath, from the new hose, or the patch on the tub.
It runs quiet except for the I'm pretty sure drain pump. It growls and seems to make a bearing noise when pumping water from the tub during the spin cycle. Now I'm wondering if that drain noise is normal or the drain pump is going away. I haven't researched the pump/pumps yet to see what does what and normal noises during operation. Either way it appears to be way easier to R and R then the tub bearings and shaft were. Any advice on that part is appreciated as this thing was so noisy during spin the last few years we can't remember what normal noises are for it now except spin used to be very quiet with a slight whir sound and can't remember how noisy the drain pump was when new.

Post# 1033940 , Reply# 15   5/30/2019 at 06:20 (1,792 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Noisi electric drain pump

 combo52's profile picture
These little pumps can make a racket, sometimes it gets worse as they age. Long as it’s working fine I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

Like you said it’s very easy to change this pump, if anything maybe pick up a spare buy a good used one off eBay or something.

John


Post# 1033998 , Reply# 16   5/30/2019 at 19:39 (1,791 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        
Self test mode?

Thanks, found the manual and it says the pump can make noises as it sucks in air but it appears to be working so guess as long as it doesn't get super loud we'll live with it. Have noticed it seems to throw a uL code a lot but it either balances again on its own or stops till we open it and rearrange the load. It spins easy, smooth, and quiet now so have to see how it goes. I did find the service manual packet that has the self test button routine but I never ran it completely through them because I was waiting for the glue to set and everything before running water through it to leak again. If there's a routine in it to reset everything maybe I need to run it through and see what happens now that it's stable and not leaking.

Post# 1034006 , Reply# 17   5/30/2019 at 21:45 (1,791 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Excessive uL can be caused by bad suspension rods.  That was the problem with the F&P AquaSmart I bought ... but it has pneumatic dampening on the suspension whereas your machine has springs, so maybe less likely to be the source of it?

Post# 1034010 , Reply# 18   5/30/2019 at 23:25 (1,791 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

Well they are all in place and nothing looks broken so I think we'll watch it and see how it does. I don't think they are expensive but if they aren't bad no reason to spend the money. I looked over the manual for the self tests and doesn't appear to be any relearning functions but for a pamphlet included with the machine it's fairly comprehensive. We had 2 loads that complained, one actually stopped and flashed but when I paused it it restarted without a uL and finished the last bit of the cycle fine. The next two appeared to run completely without a code. It does seem the light loads cause more issues than the heavy ones. I guess as long as it eventually balances on it's own we'll watch it and see how it does. Just glad it's quiet and not leaking now and I learned a few things about how it needs to go together so it doesn't have issues and leak again. The last old school Whirlpool direct drive I had the main things that broke were the pump, coupler, and agitater dogs. The guy that bought it to rebuild said the transmission was going bad but I had it from 200 to 2013 with 3 pumps, a coupler, and the agitater dogs over that time, all cheap and easy to fix.

Post# 1034015 , Reply# 19   5/31/2019 at 00:30 (1,791 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
This design iteration doesn't have a physical off-balance switch.  OOB sensing is via motor controller detection of basket rotation characteristics and perhaps cabinet impact detection if it has an accelerometer on the board like a Neptune TL.  The RPS on the motor can be implicated in uL issues but I don't think that's very common.

Nothing appeared broken on my suspension rods but there was no way to judge the dampening characteristics of the pneumatic cylinders.  The tub would go to leaping like a bronco during spin acceleration, even with no clothes, bounce upwards and impact the machine top.  It's an amazing difference with the new rods.

Post# 1034017 , Reply# 20   5/31/2019 at 01:04 (1,791 days old) by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

Ours isn't doing anything like that so probably just a light load tripping out the motor balance detection stuff. We just did a huge deep wash whites load with aprons and towels. It claimed 99 minutes and never tripped the code once.
Well if anyone needs to do the bearings in one of these I certainly can recommend what to do and not do now so it will work first time. I should have had a helper or put a blanket in the outer tub so the shaft didn't crack it the second time I knocked it loose with the dead blow hammer. At least those hammers don't mar up the shaft or other parts when you wack the crap outa them in case you need to reuse anything.


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