Thread Number: 79440  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
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Post# 1033548   5/24/2019 at 18:01 (1,743 days old) by sfh074 ( )        

Here's what I've been dealing with the past couple of days. What the hell metal is this basket support made out of? Basically it dissolved. Looks like swiss cheese and metal sluffing off. Weirdest galvanic reaction I've ever encountered. 2010 Amana POS front loader and of course this part is now NLA!

Bud - Atlanta

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Post# 1033555 , Reply# 1   5/24/2019 at 19:10 (1,743 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Corroded broken spider

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Hi bud whatís the model number of the washer ?

Unfortunately this type of corrosion and damage is common when the washer is not used in a proper manner.

This washer me either be a Samsung or possibly a whirl pool filter machine the model number will confirm.

Post# 1033585 , Reply# 2   5/25/2019 at 05:52 (1,742 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Model number .....


As for improper use, I have no words. We bought this new in 2010, used powdered detergent per manufacturers instructions. Shortly after hearing about front loaders flying apart on high speed spin, the wife and I never used "high" spin setting. Only slow or mostly medium. Never overloaded it with heavy or bulky items either. Improper use? NO, improper engineering for a critical part. Can you imagine the stresses this piece has to take? To me this part resembles a front automobile spindle .... needing to handle ridiculous centripetal forces.

Other than disassembling the frigging washer after every use and rinsing and drying the spider support so it doesn't sit there and dissolve itself from moisture and whatever else that would cause such a weird reaction to this pseudo metal, I have no other ideas. Click the "view full size" button and take a good look at the picture and stare in wonderment at what actually took place. This (pot metal?) literally dissolved. I've dealt with 50+ year old automotive and washing machine pump housings and impellers made out of pot metal that was found to have the usual pitting .... but nothing remotely like this spider support. You can take a screwdriver and punch completely thru the thickest areas and the metal resembles decomposed sand stone. I bet if it had been simply coated with something to keep the water and soap off of it, it would have lasted.

Bud - Atlanta

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Post# 1033587 , Reply# 3   5/25/2019 at 06:04 (1,742 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Corroded broken spider,

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Hi bud, what did the inside of the outer tub look like ? If there is mineral buildup on the inside of the tub etc. the same build up coats the spider keeps it damp in allows this type of corrosion to take place.

I canít really tell for sure without seeing the whole machine but it looks likely that you used way too little detergent, for water conditions also liquid detergentĎs are generally better. In general hot water should always be used in a front load washer like this with plenty of good quality detergent no cheap national brands. Bleach should also be used as often as possible.

The highest spin speed also should be used whenever possible that spins more of the crap off things like the spider shaft area, slower speed spins seem to make this problem worse, And finally always leave the door and the dispenser drawer open between uses of the machine so it dries out better.

Post# 1033589 , Reply# 4   5/25/2019 at 06:35 (1,742 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Most likely good advice ....

But all of that sounds ridiculous. It's a washing machine for heaven's sake. No 2 people will ever use a machine the same way and none of those tips are in the manufacturers instructions. No one should have to modify their washing habits to accommodate a poorly designed spider support. When I get the new spider support, I'll do what the pos manufacturer should have done in the first place, coat it with something like por15 or kds to keep the water off of it and prevent corrosion from starting in the first place.

BTW, No mineral buildup in the outer tub whatsoever, just the spider support itself had the only traces of buildup. And yes, we use lots of bleach and hot water. Actually, the entire machine looks like new. Just a little bit of water trail and corrosion to the outer frame from a tiny leak in the dispenser tray. Just repaired that with a dab of silicone.

What kills me is reading about this spider support going bad, going way back on blog sites. Literally thousands of complaints across anything WCI .... kenmore, maytag, amana, wp, frigidaire, lg, samsung, et all. Are they still making machines that incorporate a spider support made out of this same material? If so, shame on them.

This post was last edited 05/25/2019 at 06:51
Post# 1033594 , Reply# 5   5/25/2019 at 09:39 (1,742 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Corroded broken front load washer spiders

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This is a Samsung built washer, itís probably one of the last sold by whirlpool if it was not purchased till 2010.

When whirlpool bought Maytag in 2006 there was a contract in place between Maytag and Samsung and whirlpool couldnít get out of it they wanted to and they did get out of it as soon as possible.

We donít accept service calls on Samsung LG and several other brands but we do work at all Maytag and Amana and whirlpool brand of appliances so weíre seeing at least a couple of these a week, the dryers are even worse LOL.

Painting a coating on the spider may or may not help much, when washer pumps were still made a pot metal GE and a few other companies put an epoxy coating on the inside of the pumps but it didnít help much because you get tiny flaws in the coating and then moisture got under the coating and it corroded even worse. But I guess itís Worth a try.

All manufactures are building their front loading washers this way but many brands are holding up much better, it might be partly the material used and the initial strength of it to begin with.

But we do know for sure that Korean appliances havenít held up especially well , Even their cars are not doing especially well my office manager is waiting for a new engine in her Hyundai to be installed which is only seven years old.

Post# 1033601 , Reply# 6   5/25/2019 at 15:27 (1,742 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Those Samsung built Amanaís and Maytags were junk! Put a bad taste in my mouth for front loaders and especially Samsung appliances.

Post# 1033622 , Reply# 7   5/25/2019 at 20:21 (1,742 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Its threads like this that make may say "Speed Queen" Treat yourself right and those that shop big box stores. If everyone bought Speed Queen, the rest would be forced to change.

Post# 1033646 , Reply# 8   5/26/2019 at 05:30 (1,741 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
What is the spider in Speed Queen made of?

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Hopefully, it is made of something else.  Would it help if the spider were anodized (is it anodized)?

Post# 1033647 , Reply# 9   5/26/2019 at 05:51 (1,741 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

What is so weired to me is that machines in the EU certainly got really cheap as well, yet we do not have spider corrosion issues to speak off.

Bearings are cheap as heck and go after 2 1/2 years, PCBs are throw away affairs, even shock absorbers are getting questionably bad.

And I somehow doubt that they choose fundamentaly different materials.

And it appears that that happens to every machine maker about equally rarely.

So I doubt that that happens due to laundering habits themselfes or detergents themselfes.

My guess is more towards a water quality thing.
We don't use chlorine or fluoride in our water and you have what appears to be generally softer water.
So maybe that happens in areas where water is particulary absent or load with either/both.

But thats just guessing...

Post# 1033664 , Reply# 10   5/26/2019 at 11:13 (1,741 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Water quality could be a factor, but there are so many MOL and BOL powder detergents on market in the USA which for some reason don`t contain any corrosion inhibitors like Sodium Silicate.
Some even use Sodium Chloride as a cheap filler. Wonder if this might contribute to galvanic reactions as well. In the EU even the cheapest detergents don`t go so low.
A good TOL liquid used in sufficient amounts might be better for the spider than a bad powder.

Post# 1033665 , Reply# 11   5/26/2019 at 11:31 (1,741 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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This repair project dates back 3 years, photos were posted at that time.

Samsung frontloader given to my sister by friends.† The drum support broke during spin, the edge of the drum tore a gash in the front of the outer tub.† The friends were quoted $800 or some such for repair.† They mentioned it to my sister who figured I could fix it so the friends gave the set (incl matching dryer) to her.

Seems bad usage habits was the cause.† Continual heavy dosage of liquid fabric softener, probably no hot washes.† The machine has a tub clean cycle that heats to 130įF and a Sanitize cycle that heats to 150įF, highly unlikely the previous owners used either one.

Everything internal was coated with a heavy waxy residue and reeked of softener scent, the drum support crumbling to soft powder.

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Post# 1033782 , Reply# 12   5/28/2019 at 04:59 (1,739 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
Excessive fabric softener addicts or fans of low temperature washing (like the Spanish) have always existed in the EU as well.
Chronic oversudsing or underdosing happens too. Even such bad habits like shutting the door close after a wash occurs in some cases. Yet a broken drum support is something I never heard of before.

I still believe the major cause are poorly formulated detergents that don`t contain corrosion inhibitors to protect aluminum washer parts.

Post# 1033788 , Reply# 13   5/28/2019 at 08:42 (1,739 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Wouldn't say never heard of, but rare.

Funny enough I often hear of Mieles having broken spiders.
Though only after 20k+ operating hours.

Post# 1033841 , Reply# 14   5/28/2019 at 21:43 (1,739 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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My 1997 Asko....still going strong.  I don't know what the spider is made of but I have never found any powdery metal in the pump trap.

Post# 1034189 , Reply# 15   6/2/2019 at 10:05 (1,734 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Does anyone have .....

the spider support that caused me to start this thread in the first place? It is part number 34001407.

There are a couple of them on ebay but the seller is a shyster. I have bought 2 of them now and when I received them in the mail, the parts have been totally different than what was presented in the ebay pictures. And of course in rougher shape. This ebay seller has 3 different ebay ID's that he sells parts under and all have the same Las Vegas address.

Here is a link to the exact part I'm looking for .... but of course the part has been NLA for some time now.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Post# 1034200 , Reply# 16   6/2/2019 at 12:07 (1,734 days old) by UncleDave (California)        

uncledave's profile picture
It's that secret alloy - Chinesium

Post# 1034211 , Reply# 17   6/2/2019 at 14:44 (1,734 days old) by stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
I have the Maytag below I would part out. Donít know if it has the part # you need however.


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Post# 1034217 , Reply# 18   6/2/2019 at 15:49 (1,734 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

I don't think the Maytag will substitute.† Parts diagrams indicate it's an Alpha-platform with pancake F&P-style direct-drive motor, the drive shaft is splined for the motor rotor.† Bud's Amana is the older belt-drive design, the shaft is keyed for a pulley.

Post# 1034225 , Reply# 19   6/2/2019 at 17:38 (1,734 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
This has been going on

mark_wpduet's profile picture
on this forum for over way over a decade. Spider failures on some machines but not others. I honestly have no clue but to come to the conclusion that it IS in fact washing habits. I have no other reason. But I agree the manufacturers should make the spiders with similar metal's to account for durability.

My duet is now going on its 15th YEAR (bought April 2005)

I have never done anything that special. I'm the only one who ever uses the machine. When I wash colors or mixed, I use Hot washes with powder, and just a wee bit of fab softener mixed with distilled white vinegar and I also pour lemon ammonia in the tub when I'm not using LCB

Then with whites, I use powder, LCB,hot washes and NO fabric softener. Leave door cracked and detergent tray open..... Over the years, reading on forums and online and I read horror stories of nasty smells, mold, broken spiders........So what other conclusion can anyone come to? But I'm going to be totally honest and say that no one is more baffled than me that my machine has lasted this long. I would have never thought it would keep chugging along. I think there are a few others who have a similar machine as mine that's even older? But I do know that my machine DOES use aliminum spiders, which id a dissimilar metal just like all the other broken spiders over the years. In fact, I think someone on here had a machine just like mine that had a broken spider a while back.....

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Post# 1034227 , Reply# 20   6/2/2019 at 18:57 (1,734 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Powdered vs Liquid Detergents

Is it better to use powdered or liquid detergent for a top load?

Does anyone see an issue using the dry homemade laundry detergent with Fels Naptha, Oxi-Clean, washing soda, baking soda, and scent crystals (optional)?

I am assuming it is a good idea to do tap hot washes with bleach or Oxi-Clean in proper amounts on a regular basis. Clean wash cycles for maintenance would be helpful too.

Any other suggestions?

I do not fabric softener or dryer sheets.

Post# 1034233 , Reply# 21   6/2/2019 at 20:54 (1,734 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Dadoes ....

You are correct. The web link in my last post shows a picture of the actual spider needed. It shows the 2 flat spots on the end of the shaft that the pulley fits over.

Post# 1034996 , Reply# 22   6/10/2019 at 15:10 (1,726 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Found a good used spider.....

So I located a good used spider with just a trace of pitting. Of all of the dozens of pictures I found on-line of washer spiders that failed, all of them have the same thing in common.

They all fail towards the center of the spider and little to no pitting out on the arm sections. It appears the deep grooves in the center section over time collects lint and detergents and other washing agents. This build-up then leads to keeping the metal wet with this caustic goop for long periods of time ..... long after the rest of the machine internals have dried out. This goop sits on the aluminum and eats away at it. The arms always appear to have the least amount of damage. My theory is that the arms have much more centripetal force and can shed the goop whereas the center section has several areas that can easily catch and hold and build up the goop. Also the center has less centripetal force and less ability to sling and shed the gunk.

Also if you look at the newer model front loader spider designs, you'll notice they don't have the deep center section designs anymore. They are basically smooth whereby no areas for gunk to be held and build up within. If no gunk build-up then the spider can't fail grossly like they were doing. My original picture above shows the typical spider failure and the area that they go bad. It was packed with gunk and after 4 days of no use, it was still very wet.

So I got a wild hair yesterday and going to try an experiment. What if I make my replacement spider gunk proof. Where no gunk can collect in the center section. Basically encapsulate the entire assembly so it is smooth and sealed.

After sand blasting the entire assembly, I filled in the voids with fiberglass resin and resin soaked mat. 2 hours in a 150 degree oven, then shaped the cured fiberglass to a nice smooth finish. Then 3 coats of POR-15. Now the aluminum is completely bonded with reinforced fiberglass and encapsulated in POR-15.

Just installed new front and rear bearings and new oil seal. Everything else about the 10 year old washer still looks like brand new, even the belt was in remarkable new shape. No belt dust anywhere which I find hard to believe. Maybe now the washer will last another 10 years but more than likely it won't be the friggin poorly designed spider that will be the issue next time.

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Post# 1034998 , Reply# 23   6/10/2019 at 15:16 (1,726 days old) by Joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
That looks awesome! You probably now own one of the only pimped out FL washer spiders. 😃

Post# 1035062 , Reply# 24   6/11/2019 at 04:59 (1,725 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Can't tell from the pictures, but I hope to god you didn't sandblast the shaft.

How much does that entire thing weigh now?

Post# 1035071 , Reply# 25   6/11/2019 at 08:38 (1,725 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Actually ....

Sandblasting the shaft at lower pressure would be fine to remove any surface rust. I think you mean the area where the oil seal rides. I covered that area with heavy tape before blasting.

Ain't my first rodeo.

Added weight ..... maybe a half pound. Nothing drastic as you are inferring.

All back together now and quiet as a church mouse.

Post# 1035107 , Reply# 26   6/11/2019 at 16:34 (1,725 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Nice job on the spider! That was never an issue with ours, ran 9 years just fine without the spider self destructing. It's issues were the suspension and bearings failing, which started happening early after about 5 years, the other 4 years was just limping it along. 

Post# 1035501 , Reply# 27   6/16/2019 at 20:49 (1,720 days old) by Losangeles (Muscle Shoals, AL 35661)        

losangeles's profile picture
Just finished reading the thread and woes of Bud's issues with his Amana FL spider. I guess before buying a new FL washer it would be a wise to have the full engineering and composition specifications of the washer for purchase. You can bet your last dollar that your floor salesman wont know "JACK" about metal composition of the tub support/spider on any washer on the floor. So what is the the consumer to do? Oh yeah, you buy the washer for big bucks and a few years later, usually after the warranty expires you find yourself faced with a repair bill of more than half the original purchase price. makes you just want to search used appliance and Restores for machines that were built in a time when quality mattered. Just my thoughts. Losangeles

Post# 1083454 , Reply# 28   8/1/2020 at 17:50 (1,308 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
Update .....

Now going on 418 days since pimping out the replacement tub spider in our daily driver Amana front loader that I originally posted about in this thread. This machine gets used daily. With myself, a wife, a daughter and a 2 year old mess maker living in this house, this washing machine literally washes 5-6 days a week. I am really curious to find out how the spider I encapsulated with fiberglass and por15 is holding up. My theory was and still is if the chinesium mystery metal that the slider is made of doesn't come in contact with water and washing agents, it would easily hold up past the lifespan of the machine itself. So yesterday I decided to check on the spider and quench my curiosity. After about an hour I had the machine popped apart, separated the outer tub, removed the rear pulley and pulled the inner tub and spider out.

The spider was pristine with a light coat of a powdery white film of washing agents. Found that it wiped right off. The spider bearings and shaft seal are still in good shape so no water getting past to contaminant the bearings. While I had the bearings out I got to use for the first time a needle that you fasten to a grease gun and can stab it thru the rubber grease seal on sealed bearings. It looks just like a hypodermic needle and creates a self closing slit in the rubber seal of the bearing. In doing so I added a fresh squirt of grease to both bearings. I'll take a pic of this grease needle, it works really nice. Great to have one in the toolbox.

So the machine is all back together and running as it should. Maybe in another 418 days or so I'll do it again to see how the spider is holding up. If it is still in good shape by then, I'll be able to wish a great big FU to the washer manufacturers who had thousands of washer spiders self destruct because imho they cheaped out on the spider material. I still think it's absurd that the problem is placed on the user, whereby "not using enough detergent", or "using too much detergent", or "not enough hot washes", or "not leaving the door open after washes to let the machine dry out" or "using fabric softeners" ...... and a half dozen other scenarios that people have mentioned. Manufacturers kept making the slider out of the same mystery metal for years, probably still way after the first spider melt downs that was causing so much warranty work. At this point I'm thinking a hard anodization coating at time of construction would have added a bunch of years to chinesium pot metal. Ok, rant over.

Has anyone else encountered any spider mayhem in the last year or so? Just curious if this is still an ongoing issue? Or have they all self destructed and people simply moved on.

Bud - Atlanta

Post# 1083456 , Reply# 29   8/1/2020 at 19:01 (1,308 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
I have disassembled thousands

All brands suffer from spider failure, including the almighty speed queen. My observations are :

1. Samsung front load seems to be the most common brand to still fail as of 2020.
2. Almost 100% of failed spiders were machines that were otherwise gross. Too much fabric softener and / or soap , everywhere.

Post# 1083463 , Reply# 30   8/1/2020 at 19:57 (1,308 days old) by sfh074 ( )        
I must be the odd man out .....

Tide liquid, hot water most of the time, no fabric softener. Coin toss at this point, our washing habits or a pos spider design. I vote for the latter. If it were made of stainless or straight aluminum, we wouldn't be having the discussion.

Post# 1083471 , Reply# 31   8/1/2020 at 21:05 (1,308 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Sister's 2011 Samsung given to her by friends at just over 5 years (spider destroyed, completely infested with waxy softener residue) that I repaired in Feb 2016 threw a drain fault last week.† Pump ran, she opened the drain protector, not clogged.† I went there last Sat to investigate.

Found all the hoses involved in draining were much as 1/2 obstructed with residue.† Indeterminate if the spider is disintegrating again, I didn't disassemble that far.† It drained properly after I pulled and cleaned all the hoses.

The community water supply in her subdivision outside town is VERY BAD, heavy with mineral content and sediment.† She has a regularly soak faucet aerators in vinegar, so it could either be a direct cause of the residue or contributing to deterioration of the spider.† She does run too much cold water (contrary to my instructions) but the machine has a cleaning cycle that heats to 130įF which is run occasionally (probably not enough) with chlorine bleach, and she does add STPP with detergent.

Post# 1083600 , Reply# 32   8/2/2020 at 14:45 (1,307 days old) by jaums (Silver Spring, MD 20906 USA)        
Metal Fatigue?

Beautiful, shiney, plastic spider! Fooey to chinesium!

See link for "No Highway in the Sky"


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