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Thread Number: 79524
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New (to me) Miele W1213 washer & T1415 dryer |
[Down to Last] |  |
Post# 1034273 6/3/2019 at 10:33 (2,010 days old) by Revvinkevin  (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Last week my friend Thomas sent me a link for a Miele washer & dryer for sale (DARN YOU Thomas! 😊). Long story shorter, I contacted the seller, then last Tuesday after work, drove a total of 4 hrs round trip to go pick these up.
Turns out they are approx 12 years old (per Miele). I got them home and unloaded, then yesterday I was finally able to change the power cord and hook up the washer. It light up! A good sign... now to see if it works..... it seems to!
The really odd thing about the 4 prong plug power connection... inside it only uses 2 wires for power and the ground, the neutral wasn't connected to anything inside the machine, just zip-tied to part of a wire harness not connected to anything.
I started a cycle to rinse out the excess detergent residue left in it..... and boy did it suds up! I then started the hottest sanitize cycle after adding some citric acid and let it do it’s thing. I checked on the washer 2 hours into the 4 hour cycle and .... unfortunately the water was cold. The heater doesn’t work, bummer!
I’m hoping the part doesn’t cost too much!
So far the big thing I don't like about this model is, you can only start a complete cycle... there is NO possibility for rinse & spin only, drain only or drain & spin only option, it's all or nothing. If you have to stop the cycle, it drains what water is in the drum and shuts off, that's it. On the up side, it has a drum light and it sprays water directly on the door glass for the first 5-6 seconds.
OK, so now to add to all of this, Saturday I came cross another Miele set for sale, this time with stainless steel cabinets! Ugh. So if all plays out as I'm hoping it will, those will also be coming home in about 10 or 12 days!
Kevin This post was last edited 06/03/2019 at 11:13 | ||
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Post# 1034277 , Reply# 1 6/3/2019 at 11:27 (2,010 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Fun Washers They are strictly 240 volts so no neutral required. The washers are fun the dryers not so much.
Hope you are not paying much for these older machines, we see these Miele pairs on the recycling piles nearly every week.
Used Mieles in the US are like having a 10 YO Peugeot or Renault in 1974, there is simply no demand for them which makes them a fun cheap washer toy.
John | ||
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Post# 1034279 , Reply# 2 6/3/2019 at 12:14 (2,010 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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OK someone tell me please 
How does any washer work without a neutral as I thought all electrics needed at least Live and Neutral it can't work via ground can it ? Would that not fuse the breaker ??
I do not understand anything other than 3 wire 220 volt being a brit, I do understand 3 phase and 415v though. Whats 4 prong mean is it Ground Live 1 Live 2 Neutral ?? Thank you for an explanation I can get my head round. Austin | ||
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Post# 1034282 , Reply# 3 6/3/2019 at 13:03 (2,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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1200 and also the 1100 series 
Which were of the same model years weren't exact hits with the public due to their "limited" cycles. For those who didn't mind lack of certain cycles or user control they were fine, others were more bothered and looked elsewhere.
As for seeing Miele sets on "recycling piles" in good numbers, there are a few reasons for this, but not all of them horrible. First and foremost as one has stated repeatedly over the years not everyone has access to proper electrical current to run the washer and or dryer. So someone attempting to sell a Miele washer or dryer often faces the same limited market as MieleUSA. This even for machines that are perfectly fine. Two, like all appliances sooner or later Miele products will need some sort of attention. Some just aren't willing to fork over a few hundred for a simple part, plus call out costs, taxes, etc... So they junk the washer or dryer, and the perfectly fine mate appliance goes along. Three, many Americans then and now still consider Miele washers and dryers to have rather small capacities. This more so as Whirlpool and others have launched uber sized front loaders to the USA market. So people either seek to trade up from their (again perfectly fine) Miele appliances when they want something larger. And or persons having bought a home where the things were left decide they don't suit their needs. If 208v-240v power were the standard in USA instead of 120v, *and* MieleUSA got their act together in terms of supplying parts and service nationwide for less than dear money, many of those Miele washers/dryers might not end up being rubbished. People can harp on about them all they like, but my Miele washer is going on > 15 if not 20 years now and still does the job. Yes, it has required repairs over the years but what else wouldn't? | ||
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Post# 1034297 , Reply# 6 6/3/2019 at 18:03 (2,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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That neutral wire | ||
| Post# 1034298 , Reply# 7 6/3/2019 at 18:20 (2,009 days old) by whatsername (Denver, CO) | ||
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Post# 1034300 , Reply# 8 6/3/2019 at 18:31 (2,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IIRC there sort of is such a thing
But it requires getting into service mode.
IIRC someone over on the Laundry Forum of THS (now Houzz) found out how and posted about in detail. MieleUSA apparently got wind of this if for no other reason apparently persons were messing about in the service mode then couldn't get their machines back to "normal". By time Miele introduced the 3xxx series access to service mode had been restricted, and or certain functions removed entirely. A Miele tech with his laptop probably can access full menu of options, otherwise non-qualified persons cannot. | ||
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Post# 1034329 , Reply# 9 6/4/2019 at 06:25 (2,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Just to be clear
IIRC the "rinse and spin" function accessed in service mode was some sort of testing cycle or whatever. One couldn't reprogram the washer and keep the cycle available otherwise. At least that is what one remembers.
So unless someone was willing to go into service mode each time wanted a rinse/spin, it wasn't going to happen. In any event later models of Miele washers brought back rinse/spin so guess message was received loud and clear. | ||
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Post# 1034337 , Reply# 11 6/4/2019 at 07:23 (2,009 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Spin only:
www.houzz.com/discussions... www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/... IIRC Miele 12XX series does offer PC update function. Though don't know if adding a separate rinse and or spin is possible. For one thing where would it go on the controls? With a total touch screen panel it is easy to add or subtract. But the 11XX and 12XX washers have printed panels with buttons. www.automaticwasher.org/c... (WEHT Pulsator anyway?) Comments about top loading washers: No, on balance you won't get the same sort of results with top loader versus a h-axis washer. Especially if the latter is of the more advanced options with cold water starting, gentle heating of water, various cycles for "stains", and so forth. Just starting from cold and heating to 120F or even 140F (profile wash) is streets ahead of bunging wash into a top loader. To get anywhere near same results on badly soiled laundry one would have to go back to our grandmother's or her mother's days. Things would need to be soaked first in cool or warm water with a pre-soaker product, then washed in hot water. American housewives soon stopped all of that and just used copious amounts of chlorine bleach which took care of a multitude of laundry sins. | ||
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Post# 1034398 , Reply# 13 6/4/2019 at 16:15 (2,008 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Post# 1034400 , Reply# 14 6/4/2019 at 16:46 (2,008 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Post# 1034412 , Reply# 15 6/4/2019 at 21:33 (2,008 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Post# 1034419 , Reply# 16 6/5/2019 at 00:00 (2,008 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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OK, I just finished running a full cycle (NORMAL - hot) and 1 Affresh puck (tablet). Interesting that when I started the cycle it showed 58 minutes remaining, but about five minutes into the wash, the cycle suddenly lost 10 mins. Then 10 mins into the wash, a few more minutes vaporized. At the end of the cycle, what started out as 58 minutes, ended up being 45 mins. With the exception of the heater not working, everything else seems to work as it’s supposed to. I’m going to need to run more citric acid and a couple more of those affresh tablets through it, before doing any real laundry in it, because it needs it! | ||
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Post# 1034437 , Reply# 17 6/5/2019 at 03:57 (2,008 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Post# 1034470 , Reply# 18 6/5/2019 at 06:05 (2,008 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"cycle suddenly lost 10 mins"
Likely the washer deducted the heating portion of cycle. What temp did you have machine set? No heat? Cold/80C or Warm/104C? If washer is set to "no heat" then WYSIWYG pretty much in terms of total cycle time since cycle uses no heat.
All European H-axis washers have about a ten minute (give or take)period as part of a wash program for heating water to selected temperature. Given small amounts of water used nowadays a 2000w to 2100w or slightly above heater is more than capable of doing so within that time frame at 208v-240v. However the parameters for water heating are based upon a certain ambient incoming water temp. If water is warmer, obviously machine will reach temp faster and cease heating. On the old timer models Miele washers just turned off the heater but kept same time allotted. One could manually move timer out of the heating period however. Modern European H-axis washers (especially the cold fill only) yes, turn off the heater and proceed to main wash cycle, but at some point will deduct the ten or whatever minutes from over all total time because water reached proper temp faster than programmed parameters. My Lavamat does something similar, although it will deduct the time (ten or so minutes) after wash completes and before first rinse. So I'll see "47" minutes) when looking at count down clock, turn my head and look again to see "37" minutes. Check service manual I sent. Your washer does have a fault code (F20) indicating issues with heater or relay; but it doesn't flash. You have to go into service mode and look up recorded recent fault codes. "Fault Code F20, Heating" Symptom During operation, this fault is not indicated via any LEDs on the Control Panel. The program continues, however poor wash results, and longer than usual operating times may be noticed. Cause The water is not being heated. Remedy Check the Heater Relay and Relay circuit. Check the Heater Circuit for an open or short circuit ------ So apparently the Miele washer just chugs on even if water doesn't reach set temp. | ||
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Post# 1034477 , Reply# 19 6/5/2019 at 06:26 (2,008 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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service manual for w1213 | ||
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Post# 1034480 , Reply# 20 6/5/2019 at 06:31 (2,008 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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Post# 1034565 , Reply# 21 6/5/2019 at 14:00 (2,007 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Laundress & Greg, you are both awesome, THANK YOU! I just printed the Tech manual and will go through it once I get home.
In selecting the "Normal" cycle, the hottest temp option allowed is "hot". My water heater is set to 140 degrees, so I will assume water entering the washer is somewhere close to that (after purging the line). I have to refer to the owners manual again to see what temp that is supposed to be.
In my previous post I forgot to add normal the cycle consisted of a main wash (20 mins) followed by drain & spin, plus 2 rinses.
I will mess with it more, as well as run more "cleaning cycles". It still smells rather musty / mildew-y..... the seller said it had only been sitting unused about 2 weeks. Yeah I don't believe that for a second. | ||
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Post# 1034569 , Reply# 22 6/5/2019 at 14:19 (2,007 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IIRC | ||
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Post# 1034570 , Reply# 23 6/5/2019 at 14:27 (2,007 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Mold and musty smell issues
If you haven't already drain the sump area, then remove the lint "filter" and give things a good cleaning/scrubbing.
Main thing that can really get infested with mold far as tub would be the porthole boot. Everything from using too much liquid or bad detergent, and or not doing frequent hot or high water washes (especially using oxygen bleach detergent or added separately), and or using excessive amounts of fabric softener can leave all sorts of gunk on inside of boot. That in turn creates a biofilm which breeds mold and God only knows what. If the washer was kept closed up between uses it just adds to the misery. When my Miele arrived wisely had ordered a new door boot to replace original. Am glad one did as when old was removed the internal parts were heavily coated in the worst and most foul mold have ever seen. That and it had a nice rip/hole. | ||
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Post# 1034587 , Reply# 24 6/5/2019 at 16:14 (2,007 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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The door boot on my other (older) Miele is in really nice condition. The door boot on this one doesn't look as nice (darker/discolored) and the lower portion was actually stuck to the door glass when I first opened the door. So much so I had to get my fingers in there to pry it loose. I've already thought about replacing the boot and surprisingly, it's only $80 (79.95) from Miele. I guess I was expecting it to be a lot more.
Also, I think there may be more going on here than just door boot mildew. When I ran the cycle last night with the affresh puck, every time it drained (into a utility sink), especially the for rinses, the water draining out had a milder like odor to it. | ||
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Post# 1034593 , Reply# 25 6/5/2019 at 17:38 (2,007 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Post# 1034600 , Reply# 26 6/5/2019 at 19:36 (2,007 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Moldy dirty front load washers
I would be very cautious of ever buying a used front load washer that it’s either moldy or smells.
It’s one thing if you get it for nothing but it takes a very long time to ever affect a cleanup, and the door boot is only the tip of the iceberg less than 10 to 20% of all the mold and grime is on the door boot the rest of it’s in the outer tub and all the spider rear of the drum and around the critical water seal for the bearings. A machine that was once moldy, will never really be clean unless you take it apart mechanically clean it, you will always have to use more bleach in the machine for the remainder of its life to keep it from transferring onto your clothing. John | ||
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Post# 1034671 , Reply# 27 6/6/2019 at 22:32 (2,006 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Update with good news!
Thomas came over last night with his not-sold-in-the-USA portable steam cleaner and thoroughly cleaned this washer inside (w/o disassembly) and out. It looks much better to begin with and the door boot almost looks like new again too. It did not have any mold stains, or anything really gross, it was just discolored, like it was really old.
Part 2: The heater DOES work! This afternoon to clean the washer again, I started it with an Affresh tablet, the Whitest White cycle, "Extended" option and "Sanitize" temp. I did not purge the hot water line before I started it, so by time it reached the proper water level, the water inside was maybe slightly warmer than warm, if that. Again about 3 minutes into the cycle (attention Launderess), 10 minutes dropped off the time remaining (I wonder if it has some way to sense of it's running empty or not?). Thinking I may have wasted an Affresh tablet by running it with "warm" water, I went in the house. About 20 mins later on my way out to buy groceries, I walked by the Miele and put my hand on the door glass and WOW it was extremely HOT!!! HOORAY!
What I now think happened the other day when I assumed the heater didn't work is: I started the Normal cycle, Hot temp, Extended, Heavy Soil & Soak. When I walked by after 2 hours, it must have drained and filled with cold water for the soak. Duh! LOL
Part 3: After the steam cleaning and this latest "cleaning cycle" with the sanitize heated temp, there is not even a hint of any moldy / mildew smell from this washing machine! Woo Hoo!
Kevin | ||
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Post# 1034672 , Reply# 28 6/6/2019 at 22:45 (2,006 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Good For You!
Congrats!
Am now wondering why the washer drops off those ten minutes, and what they are for otherwise. Unless as you say the washer did fill with water warmer than "cold" and thus washer needed less than full allotted time to reach proper temp, and it knows. Getting a new washer it always takes awhile to sort things out, even sometimes with the manual. As for the moldy whiff, all can say to some comments is "whatever". Both my Miele W1070 and AEG toplader arrived with a bit of a pong thanks to mould from being shut up. Several deep cleanings with hot/boiling water cycles, first with vinegar, then oxygen bleach laundry cycles, and whiff was/is gone. With the AEG top loader had to scrub down the boot with vinegar between very hot washes, but again the deed was done. Keep using this washer with hot to very wash cycles and with a detergent that contains oxygen bleach. This or add it separately. That alone will clear out much of what is left, and keep it from coming back. Of course standard advise about leaving door open after use applies. You might also want to keep the detergent dispense drawer open as well to enhance air flow. | ||
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Post# 1034680 , Reply# 29 6/7/2019 at 04:35 (2,006 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Soak Oh yeah no the Soak option should be 2h of no more then warm soaking (if even) with the heater going off after a good few minutes probably all together. So the water will cool down to room temperature during the soak and then be pulled back up during heating. Edit: Sanitize actually should be 95C/190somethingF and verry hot 75C𖠊F or so... | ||
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Post# 1034681 , Reply# 30 6/7/2019 at 04:52 (2,006 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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There's nothing like a Karcher professional steam cleaner LOL Mine is old, falling apart, the boiler is full of mineral deposits so much i used it and that broken cap that I can't open do soak it with citric acid and the unit is operating with less than 40% of the pressure. (The real stream is like a CO2 fire extinguisher and you need to wear earplugs because it is super loud.)
I remember the first day when I used it to clean the grout in my bathroom, with the wrong attachment... it cleaned the wall, the only problem is that I didn't really want to remove the grout and the tiles, just clean them.... I also broke a window because i forgot you have to pull the trigger BEFORE you touch the surface because the first stream "punches" very violently, just like a pressure washer. BTW, Kevin... I discovered they're sold in the USA, but the price is beyond outrageous.... FOUR THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS! It's a version a little bit different but with the same technical specs and same attachments. In Brazil, the TOL version available there costs around $300, considering the exchange rate. Now I wonder how much they cost in Germany, where they're made... I also wonder why steam cleaners are not popular here in the USA. I once used a Mccullock that was supposed to be "professional" (sic) it was a huge canister that looked more like a small suitcase and was ridiculously weak, the pressure was miserable, just like the infamous Vaporetto made by Polti in Italy. Bissell also has one model that looks like a small jug that darn thing is miserable. It farts some steam almost like a clothes iron. (Maybe you can loosen letter stamps with it or steam fabrics, nothing more than that.) The secret in the Karcher steam cleaner is not exactly the heat, but the absurd pressure that blasts the dirt just like a pressure washer, without the water spilling everywhere. I know in Europe Karcher has some models that are even more powerful than mine.... You have 220 at your home, so maybe you could, eventually, be lucky enough to know somebody that flies frequently from Europe to Southern California, maybe an airline pilot, who knows? That could eventually smuggle one unit for you. Now back to your Miele... I'm very glad I was able to help. I know how much you love Mieles and I'll always do my best to help you as I can. Sooner or later I'll break into your Disneyland and toss 1 gal of LCB in the Miele and run the longest cycle. This shock treatment won't hurt your little baby and will get rid of much of that dirt. Other thing that would help a lot is a large scoop of HTH swimming pool chlorine. Same as LCB, run one cycle and then immediately after run a second cycle with just water and a full load of towels. If you want to see how it's done and the result, I'll do that on Sunday in my SQ. | ||
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Post# 1034685 , Reply# 32 6/7/2019 at 05:56 (2,006 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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I had the steam vac.... i left in Brazil... it's made by Polti. It's good but those round brushes are a pain. It's also much weaker than the SC2500C. It was ok for floors but mediocre for detailing. It would have done nothing at Kevin's washer yesterday.
Mine is the SC2500C. It's somewhat similar to the SC4 in terms of design, but with the same professional boiler and heating element that can be found in the SC 4/4 (it's more powerful and it doesn't allow the iron because the hose doesn't disconnect). It heats up in under 2 minutes and have the pressure dial on the back of the canister and the second pressure selector on the handle. There's also a SC2500C 220V that is grey, it has no selector on the back but a dial on the handle. In Brazil they also have the SC4 (refill tank) and SC3 (just boiler) for household use. The SC 4/4 was discontinued in Brazil and the SC2500C now comes with that metal cart as standard (mine was optional, it came with it but I left in Brazil) My previous model was a "Vaporapid", bought in late 90's... it was excellent but it doesn't come close to the SC2500C in terms of pressure. | ||
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Post# 1034723 , Reply# 33 6/7/2019 at 16:15 (2,005 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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 Ha ha Thomas you're funny! As I said when I last saw you, we are more than happy to bring one over for you. If you can find one that you want from a European store, then you can go ahead and order it to be delivered here to Barcelona or to the UK and I will happily bring it with me when I next go to LA (likely within the next 6 weeks or so).
Glad you got the washer working ok, Kevin! Looking forward to checking it out | ||
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Post# 1034789 , Reply# 34 6/8/2019 at 10:56 (2,005 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Post# 1034814 , Reply# 35 6/8/2019 at 14:19 (2,004 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Hi Thomas
The evening that we had dinner with you and Daryl at the Del Amo Mall, when we were standing outside before heading home, I thought that we'd spoken about buying a steam cleaner in Europe and bringing it over for you.
If you go to www.kaercher.com... you can select the UK or Spain and browse what's available and buy it direct from their own website and have it sent to me in Spain or I can give you an address in the UK.
Take care Mark | ||
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Post# 1034820 , Reply# 36 6/8/2019 at 15:01 (2,004 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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| Post# 1034832 , Reply# 37 6/8/2019 at 16:57 (2,004 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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One more thing The 1986 and probably the 12XX series and now the W1 will adjust the wash and rinse time to the load size, so after a few minutes of running, it will decrease the cycle time according to your load size. | ||
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Post# 1034857 , Reply# 38 6/8/2019 at 23:17 (2,004 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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^^ | ||
| Post# 1034887 , Reply# 39 6/9/2019 at 11:18 (2,004 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
Congrats Kevin! | ||
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Post# 1034900 , Reply# 40 6/9/2019 at 14:32 (2,003 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Anytime you want!
Actually other day I mentioned to Kevin we should organize a wash-in. (It would be my very first wash in). Maybe someday, after I have my laundry room 100% full and operational. I think Kevin will have some more awesome news tonight. Dramatic pause waiting for his comments or maybe a new thread. | ||
| Post# 1034968 , Reply# 41 6/10/2019 at 08:17 (2,003 days old) by touchtronic (Omaha, NE) | ||
Cracking Bezel
I see on your washer the bezel that goes around the controls as well as the detergent is cracking. Mine did the same thing in my W3033 from 2010, and I called Miele parts and got a replacement for about $35. My dryer display has not cracked at all though. They can sell you a replacement heater as well, but it could be the heater relay that is bad. I'd take the heater out and use an ohm meter to check if it's bad.
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Post# 1035384 , Reply# 42 6/14/2019 at 23:40 (1,998 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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I'm an idiot, aren't I? | ||
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