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Thread Number: 80000
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Filter-flo transmission repair |
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| Post# 1039201 7/23/2019 at 18:50 (1,524 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
Ok, boys and girls, I’m diving into the ever-elusive FF tranny. I’m not aware of any instructions or manuals that exist for these anywhere within my existence. Having said that, I’m dying to learn how to repair and rebuild these since they’re so hard to find now.
The subject is a 1970 GE two-speed model. I’ve already rebuilt the clutch as it was partially seized and kept knocking the shifter out of whack. The main issue now is the vast indexing the tub does as it has virtually no brake. I’ve removed and open up the bottom of the tranny. No leaks ever and the oil inside was not bad at all. However, there was a small pile of rubber material collected on the baseplate. I have NO idea where this would have come from but can only assume it has something to do with the brake. Beyond the lower bearing, I don’t even know how to take this thing apart. Anyone who has any knowledge, literature and/or pictorials on this may have their way with me because I’m completely stumped and really want to figure this out. In the meantime, I’ll keep checking for replacement trannys. Thanks again! I added some pics. | ||
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| Post# 1039212 , Reply# 1 7/23/2019 at 19:34 (1,523 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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So there’s more...
Knowing why the GE makes two loud “pops” when the spin stops is like knowing the meaning of life! Lol
Thanks to a couple of simple questions from Robert, it suddenly occurred to me where the actual brake is and it was right under my nose. Inside the baseplate under a rim is a large spring coil with a hook. Between this cool and the baseplate is a brake pad strip. I have an intact brake to compare to the bad one. As you can see, the bad brake has virtually nothing left to grab onto. It’s just metal on metal. So I could place the better one on the machine or see if there’s a way to find a new coil or have new material adhered to the old one. So interesting!!! | ||
Post# 1039214 , Reply# 2 7/23/2019 at 19:38 (1,523 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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Post# 1039223 , Reply# 3 7/23/2019 at 21:03 (1,523 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Well that sure looks like a good time, Jon!
Under the GE section on AE.org, Robert has a generic automatic washer service manual that does a great job of breaking down the transmissions for these, in case you need some guidance beyond what you've already uncovered, as well as parts breakdowns with PNs. www.automatice.org/cgi-bi... Glad to hear you already have a spare brake on hand. Ben | ||
| Post# 1039226 , Reply# 4 7/23/2019 at 21:24 (1,523 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Ben | ||
| Post# 1039257 , Reply# 5 7/24/2019 at 04:19 (1,523 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Now for oil
I was able to get the brake coil replaced thanks to a large spring compressor. Yes, I was nervous. That thing pops loose and lord knows what’ll get hit. That is one heavy spring!
I know the discussion of oil had come up a while back I was at the automotive store earlier and wasn’t able to find a non-detergent 60W oil. I found what I think is about the closest but unsure between a 50W high-pressure/high-temp motorcycle oil or just plain gear oil. Suggestions? | ||
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Post# 1039297 , Reply# 6 7/24/2019 at 14:53 (1,523 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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Hey Jon, I had to use Pure Guard ND30 oil in the 1958 GE transmission. It's getting much harder to find non-detergent oil. I'm worried how we are going to find non-detergent oil in the future now that California has banned it. I suspect other states may follow their lead.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Unimatic1140's LINK | ||
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Post# 1039300 , Reply# 7 7/24/2019 at 15:04 (1,523 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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| Post# 1040036 , Reply# 8 7/30/2019 at 16:20 (1,517 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Parts arrived and back to work
So I got new lower seal for the case, new cork seal for the pulley wheel and a new lower shaft seal. Washed down the outside components and installed the new outer casing seal. The original lower shaft seal still had a nice, snug fit and was pliable so I didn’t feel I should screw up a good thing.
By the way, the brake coil is a mother of a job. I had to get an automotive spring coil compressor to bend it down just enough to fit it inside the hub. You do NOT want that thing to slip out and knock you in the face. Kind of scary. Once seated I just tapped it in with a mallet and placed the shroud back which keeps it in place. I went ahead and filled the transmission with the specified amount (2.75 quarts) of gear oil (90w). It looked and smelled just like what was in it before. Can’t be that harmful and, if it is, oh well. I did some obligatory cleaning and rust proofing. The aluminum case collected years of residue under the boot so the Dremel did a nice job of removing most of it and getting it nice and smooth. Transmission is back in place now. Giving the shaft a quick turn counterclockwise engages the brake so I think that issue is resolved. No oil leaking at all so far either. Once the POR-15 has had a couple hours to dry, I’ll replace the boot, tub and agitator. Then it’ll be time to reinstall the motor-clutch assembly, thread the belt and then run some tests to make sure the clutch functions properly along with everything else. | ||
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Post# 1040042 , Reply# 9 7/30/2019 at 16:52 (1,517 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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| Post# 1040051 , Reply# 10 7/30/2019 at 18:06 (1,517 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Machines is back
All components are now installed and initial spin test complete. We have a brake again! Also have two spin speeds! A little more time to allow POR-15 to fully dry and then will do water testing and agitation. Long live the filter-flo!
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| Post# 1040057 , Reply# 11 7/30/2019 at 18:53 (1,517 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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| Post# 1040091 , Reply# 12 7/31/2019 at 01:19 (1,516 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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There’s always something...
So everything is back together. Hooked it up. Water seal test is a go. Oil leak test is a go. Problem now...bad water level switch. Fills and doesn’t agitate. Ugh!!! I bypassed the switch and got very nice smooth agitation in low and high speeds. So now to find another standard capacity infinite water level switch. To be continued...
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Post# 1040116 , Reply# 13 7/31/2019 at 07:56 (1,516 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Jon - many of us feel your pain - you get through everything only to find something completely different died.
Great job though on the transmission rehab. Your post might be the first we've seen of someone tearing into a 61 and later GE trans and installing new seals! Enjoy that smooth and *somewhat* quiet agitation. :) Ben | ||
| Post# 1040151 , Reply# 14 7/31/2019 at 12:24 (1,516 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Ben
You’re so kind. I know this is one of those “welcome to the club” sort of things where probably everyone here has had this happen. I feel like GEs, or at least the ones I’ve acquired over the years, have require such extensive work especially due to rust. The scary thing for me now is metal scrapping has been very effective at removing old machines in my area and vintage machines are virtually gone now. I haven’t seen a replacement transmission anywhere, EBay or otherwise, in at least a year so rehabbing these transmissions will be necessary for me to keep these machines going. Thank goodness the upper seals are good or I’d be screwed!
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| Post# 1040366 , Reply# 15 8/2/2019 at 03:53 (1,514 days old) by mit634 (Sydney) | ||
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| Post# 1040556 , Reply# 16 8/3/2019 at 18:48 (1,513 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Finally!
We’re back in business. 1969 model (manufactured 1970) GE Filter-flo with NO indexing and two speeds. Fully restored and sounds just like I remember! I’d post a video but I don’t know how on here so enjoy a couple of pictures.
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| Post# 1040557 , Reply# 17 8/3/2019 at 19:00 (1,513 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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By the way... | ||
| Post# 1040587 , Reply# 18 8/3/2019 at 22:23 (1,512 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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Post# 1040589 , Reply# 19 8/3/2019 at 22:37 (1,512 days old) by qsd-dan (West) |
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| Post# 1040696 , Reply# 20 8/4/2019 at 18:00 (1,512 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Videos | ||
| Post# 1040697 , Reply# 21 8/4/2019 at 18:02 (1,512 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Spin drain | ||
| Post# 1040698 , Reply# 22 8/4/2019 at 18:02 (1,512 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Spin brake works! | ||
| Post# 1040699 , Reply# 23 8/4/2019 at 18:04 (1,512 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Some rinse action | ||
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Post# 1040714 , Reply# 24 8/4/2019 at 20:12 (1,511 days old) by qsd-dan (West) |
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Post# 1040717 , Reply# 25 8/4/2019 at 20:43 (1,511 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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GE Filter-Flow Running Like New Again | ||
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Post# 1040720 , Reply# 26 8/4/2019 at 20:54 (1,511 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Post# 1040721 , Reply# 27 8/4/2019 at 20:57 (1,511 days old) by Washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai’i) |
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Post# 1040766 , Reply# 28 8/5/2019 at 10:22 (1,511 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL) |
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Sounds Great! | ||
| Post# 1040772 , Reply# 29 8/5/2019 at 11:19 (1,511 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Thanks!
Appreciate the kind responses! Never thought I’d have three fully-functional filter-flo sets and I love them all. This set was such a particular surprise to me because of the lighted dials. I had only seen a photo of a machine that had one of these but never thought I’d find one under my nose. That’s why I couldn’t part these machines out. They needed to be preserved and I’m so excited to have them up and running.
This site makes restorations like this possible and everyone here has so much knowledge they’re willing to share. I’m so grateful! | ||
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Post# 1040821 , Reply# 30 8/5/2019 at 23:07 (1,510 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!) |
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Post# 1040849 , Reply# 31 8/6/2019 at 07:16 (1,510 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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GE V-16 Washer | ||
| Post# 1040871 , Reply# 32 8/6/2019 at 11:33 (1,510 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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John
Yes, standard V-16 tub. The agitator for this particular machine was modified in an unfortunate way so doubt I’ll ever use it. If you’re willing to spare one then I’d appreciate it. Just let me know what I owe you for it.
Thanks! | ||
| Post# 1041038 , Reply# 33 8/8/2019 at 11:18 (1,508 days old) by touchtronic (Omaha, NE) | ||
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| Post# 1042659 , Reply# 35 8/24/2019 at 18:26 (1,492 days old) by Doug (West Virgina) | ||
Nice job
I’m just now seeing ur thread, great job on the restoration! Wish I knew how to repair the clutch’s an transmissions as u said they r getting harder to find! Maybe one day I’ll learn! I’ll keep an eye out for the agitator u need as well! I had a question though about the por 15 that u used to do the rust hole patching, what exactly is it called? I saw u had used a fiber glass cloth or something an put the putty on it? I also saw u used the preventing paint for the mild rust spots? Hope u can help, great job again! -Doug
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| Post# 1042803 , Reply# 36 8/26/2019 at 21:14 (1,489 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Doug
Thanks! I’ve repaired a couple of horribly rusted outer tubs on GEs with both POR-15 and Bondo. Bondo is a resin that is mixed with an activating solution and brushed onto fiberglass cloth. If you’ve ever been on a brand new fiberglass boat before, it has that same distinct smell. Once the resin hardens it is extremely durable and waterproof so it’s perfect for washers. You can sand it, shape, and cut holes in it. Even paint it.
POR-15 is the name of the rust-proofing paint you can use to stop rust in its tracks. Inside these machines are common rust-prone areas such as the out rim of the outer tub, areas prone to trauma from an out-of-balance inner tub and anywhere there are hose connections or standing water. Simply paint this stuff on and it’ll bond with the rust and seal it. Both of these can be found at both hardware stores as well as automotive supply stores where automotive paint and body repair items are sold. I have two machines that literally were saved because of both of these items! Let me know when you’re ready to work on clutches and I’ll do my best to support you. They’re not that bad really. | ||
| Post# 1042872 , Reply# 37 8/27/2019 at 14:55 (1,489 days old) by Doug (West Virgina) | ||
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Jon | ||
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Post# 1042970 , Reply# 38 8/28/2019 at 15:13 (1,488 days old) by Stuftrock1 (Kentucky) |
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Post# 1042983 , Reply# 39 8/28/2019 at 19:44 (1,487 days old) by Stuftrock1 (Kentucky) |
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| Post# 1042987 , Reply# 40 8/28/2019 at 21:30 (1,487 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Agitators
I would say, like most creators of appliances back then, there were always interesting variations made to machines to keep them fresh and “improved.” Agitators were certainly no exception. This also plays a part in the “V” model designations of these machines. John L. Has a lot more knowledge on this subject but here’s what I understand.
“V” models were what designated a machines capacity of dry clothing it could handle safely without overloading the motor. Therefore a V-16 model was considered capable of washing up to 16 lbs of dry clothing. John was explaining that these capacities would increase (V-12, V-14, and V-16) based on the motor capacity (increasing the horsepower) rather than increasing actual tub capacity. 18 lb models had deeper tubs, however. There were a a few main designs for agitators for both standard and tall tub models. Original standard machines had Bakelite ramps for the 12 and 14 lb models in the early and mid 1960’s. 16 lb models began featuring the triple straight-cane agitator in Bakelite and over the next few years (1967-1973ish) these straight vane standard tub agitators had a few variations to the fins. I think they were in turquoise and white. Initial 18 lb tall tub models in about 1967 featured 4-vane straight vane agitators and I believe it was until the late 1970’s that tall tub machines began featuring ramp activators like their standard tub siblings. There were a couple of variations on the tall straight vane activators as well and, ultimately everything went back to ramps until the end of the filterflo line. | ||
| Post# 1042988 , Reply# 41 8/28/2019 at 21:35 (1,487 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Agitator photos
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Post# 1043011 , Reply# 42 8/29/2019 at 06:38 (1,487 days old) by Stuftrock1 (Kentucky) |
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| Post# 1043019 , Reply# 43 8/29/2019 at 08:11 (1,487 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Stuftrock1 | ||
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Post# 1043020 , Reply# 44 8/29/2019 at 08:49 (1,487 days old) by Stuftrock1 (Kentucky) |
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jons1077 | ||
| Post# 1043025 , Reply# 45 8/29/2019 at 09:22 (1,487 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) | ||
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Dispenser | ||
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Post# 1043044 , Reply# 47 8/29/2019 at 12:05 (1,487 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1043059 , Reply# 48 8/29/2019 at 14:54 (1,487 days old) by Stuftrock1 (Kentucky) |
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That is actually very smart. It’s amazing and quite sad how much people these days completely take washers for granted, especially since they were designed by someone much smarter than all of us. And not to mention how impressive the engineering was that went into them. Maytag’s nylon ball hinges, so simple yet such a brilliant “why didn’t I think of that” idea. Maytag’s orbital transmission, a reliable, simple, and compact transmission design that was genius. The resulting agitation may only have a short 90 degree stroke, but it was fast and it got the job done. Whirlpool’s direct drive, honestly probably the best drivetrain systems that eliminated the problems from having a belt and was extremely easy to work on if something actually broke. And finally, the agitator itself. You don’t just put fins on a stick and call it a done deal. You use fluid dynamics and general physics to design an agitator that has strong rollover, good scrubbing ability on all water levels, creates strong water currents, is gentle on clothes, and is still capable of performing well when overloaded. Sure, a lot of this is also dependent of the stroke size and speed determined by the transmission and motor, but the best agitators take full advantage of whatever drivetrain they are paired with.
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