Thread Number: 80155  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Is there anyway to stop Speed Queen INDEXING?
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Post# 1040984   8/7/2019 at 21:21 (1,667 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

If the machine is new why aren't the breaks working? The Wavy Flex agitator is very powerful...(still don't get why it's actually compared to the dual-action)...the dual is the ONLY agitator that can force an over-stuffed load down to bottom of the tub...plenty other agitator's that turnover laundry as good as but, the dual is the best at it...that being said, the Wavy Flex still pulls clothes down into the tub overloaded, SO WHY HINDER THE EFFECTIVENESS with indexing...Speed Queen must be aware of this...why won't they correct the slipping?




Post# 1040985 , Reply# 1   8/7/2019 at 21:28 (1,667 days old) by ladd (Maryland)        

I have a one month old TC5000 that does some indexing. I've read that it will get better as the machine breaks in, but don't really know how putting some wear on the brakes will make them grab better.

Post# 1040997 , Reply# 2   8/7/2019 at 23:27 (1,667 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
My 2017 Series 9 SQ still indexes a littleómaybe about a 10th of a turn; noticeably less than during the first year, at any rate, back when it actually was hindering rollover on large loads.

Iíve always enjoyed watching indexing tubs, so itís a win-win for me. After nearly 30 years of front-loaders the SQís indexing and spin-drains complete my old-school top-loader experience.

I know John L. (combo52) has posted how to stop the indexing. Maybe heíll see this and weigh-in on it. Otherwise, search SQ threads about indexing. Itís in there somewhere.


Post# 1040999 , Reply# 3   8/7/2019 at 23:38 (1,667 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at that

Post# 1041002 , Reply# 4   8/8/2019 at 01:49 (1,667 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

So, does the Speed Queen washers need an additional 'torque spring' to completely stop the tub indexing...a 1/4 rotation is really bad and an 1/8 is bad enough...if no other way, a 1/16th would be at least acceptable...1/2 inch back and forth rocking is basic...(can an extra spring be installed)...I mean the only two WCI agitators that are capable of turnover (with full loads) are the Westinghouse Deep Ramps and Kelvinator/Gibson late 70's to 80's Ten Vane "angel wing" agitators...for the Ten Vane agitator, if the indexing arc was decreased from a 1/4 rotation (90 degrees) down to a 1/16th , rolling would have been awesome

Post# 1041003 , Reply# 5   8/8/2019 at 02:16 (1,667 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Beside, the indexing, can anyone also explain why Speed Queen for years haven't CORRECTED the water level load size selector MISPRINT...the 'medium' selection is in place of LARGE...here's a pic of the medium setting water level...it's clearly an amount of water for a 'LARGE' setting

  View Full Size
Post# 1041008 , Reply# 6   8/8/2019 at 04:54 (1,666 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

here's a video of the transmission INDEXING..."Speed Queen AWN542 noise" youtube

CLICK HERE TO GO TO scrubflex's LINK


Post# 1041012 , Reply# 7   8/8/2019 at 05:41 (1,666 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Brake Slip

mrb627's profile picture
Initially, it was told that the break pads were factory coated with a lubricant of some type to prevent corrosion which might occur between factory assembly and final installation at the purchaser's location. Perhaps when machines are shipped around the world on tankers, the salt air can cause issues. Cleaning the brake pads with a solvent was said to correct the issue.

Malcolm


Post# 1041029 , Reply# 8   8/8/2019 at 09:04 (1,666 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Hi Malcolm, I suppose the tub indexing complaint percentage isn't high enough to consider a solution...indexing has been a issue for years...has anyone tried to clean the brake pads?

Post# 1041032 , Reply# 9   8/8/2019 at 10:24 (1,666 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

>> ... but don't really know how putting some wear on the brakes will make them grab better.


There are volumes to read if you are really interested... but two things to highlight:

Despite our best manufacturing tolerances, brake pads and drums/discs are never "perfectly" matched in shape and flatness. Therefore, when put in contact with each other, there will be ridges, bumps, high spots, or just slightly mismatched shaping which prevent complete and even contact between the two surfaces. Under the initial usage, these high spots and ridges will see a disproportionate amount of pressure & friction, resulting in them wearing down faster than the rest of the surface. Over time (a comparatively short time), this is a self-solving problem, as the materials wear to conform to each other for a better fit.

So upon initial use, the brake is less effective... but after a short period of usage, the characteristics will have improved and stabilized considerably as the surfaces conform and make better contact.


A second factor is the initial conditioning of the drum/disc. Upon initial use, there is a transfer of material from the brake pads to the drum/disc, which alters the friction properties of the drum/disc. If you've ever changed the brakes on a vehicle, you might be familiar with the process of "bedding in" your brakes. A search for "adherent friction" will give all kinds of information on this subject, and how the initial cycling of a brake changes the properties of the surfaces.


(Note: I'm not sure that either of these are explanations of why the Speed Queens are indexing, just posting them as examples of why braking systems could be less effective when new, but improve with usage.)


Post# 1041034 , Reply# 10   8/8/2019 at 10:42 (1,666 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

If you look at the brake rotor on a Speed Queen and the brake pads, it makes sense that a break in period is needed.  The rotor is round and the pads are flat.  So it makes sense (to me at least) that it takes time for the pads to wear enough to provide grip.  Since Speed Queen is designed for commercial applications first (like a laundromat) which would see constant use throughout the day, the break in period would be shorter than my Speed Queen which sees maybe five to seven loads throughout a week. 


Post# 1041045 , Reply# 11   8/8/2019 at 12:50 (1,666 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Hmm, it's odd to me that Speed Queen would need to install a major washer component "that get's better with use"...rather than design a brake system that does the job without side effects...how dangerous is it if new vehicle brakes have ANY slippage...(that's risking people lives)...it seems that the details would have been settled during the designing...resolve the tub indexing with a different brake system...is it too expensive???

Post# 1041050 , Reply# 12   8/8/2019 at 13:44 (1,666 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That's just material science for you...

Another factor: Breaks tend to be smoother after manufacturing then after some use to an effect similar to sanding a surface:
A sintered or cut surface is smoother then one treated with friction from a relatively rough surface.

Every friction interaction between 2 surface "breaks away" parts of both surfaces.
The rougher the surfaces, the more they interlock and the bigger the chunks that break away.
There will always be some wear to both surfaces, to harder surface less then the softer one (proportionally).


Post# 1041137 , Reply# 13   8/8/2019 at 22:45 (1,666 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
>> how dangerous is it if new vehicle brakes have ANY slippage...(that's risking people lives)

Vehicle brakes actually *are* designed to slip! If they didn't, they would grab and lock up, which would make for extremely dangerous handling on the roads! Anytime you slow down without fully stopping, those brakes are slipping, and they are designed to do that day in day out for tens of thousands of miles.

A closer comparison for the washing machine perhaps is the vehicle's parking brake, which is usually used as the functional equivalent to a wheel chock. But even they are still designed to allow slippage, as your parking/emergency brake is your last level of the redundant braking systems in your car... and should your primary hydraulic brakes fail while driving, that emergency brake is designed to allow for a safe controlled stop.


Post# 1041146 , Reply# 14   8/8/2019 at 23:50 (1,666 days old) by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        

The indexing will diminish. If you're not getting good turnover in the Queen,you have too many items in there!

Why wear out your clothes and the machine while getting poorer wash/rinse? "Overstuffed" IS overloaded. Load properly and enjoy.


Post# 1041157 , Reply# 15   8/9/2019 at 03:39 (1,665 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Okay and true...thanks everyone

Post# 1041175 , Reply# 16   8/9/2019 at 07:29 (1,665 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Indexing SQ TL Washers

combo52's profile picture

Hi Harry, you are way over thinking this issue, of the 1000s of SQ TL washers we have sold or serviced no customer has ever brought up this issue, it does not affect performance in any real way.

 

That said and while this is a great washer for most users it is still a crude machine and I will never have one in my laundry room.

 

If you want perfection in a traditional TL washer rebuild a WP-KM-KA top loader from approximately 1985-1995 , you could also do a WP-KM BD or a MT DC or a GE FF washer but with a few more trade-offs in performance and difficulty because of age in restoring them.

 

John L.


Post# 1041181 , Reply# 17   8/9/2019 at 09:53 (1,665 days old) by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        

While the DD's ARE good all around machines,they are not 'perfection'. We had 2 from new incl a '96 90 series KM. The norm wash speed da-da-da-da sound is ok. The KLUNK into spin is sometimes startling and neutral-drain issues do occur. Spray rinse on last spin sorta' dilutes softner. Spin NOT vibration-free most times.


To me the SQ sounds good and has very smooth spin. Washing good,rinsing fair,spin dry seems wetter than DD. Our DD's were not trouble-some except for neutral-drain. The '96 needed a new trans when 1 week old,but usually drained thereafter.


I did replace 'belt kit' on 8 yr old SQ which made diff in spin accel and speed attainment.

To each their own,but the SQ is decent,reliable,and to me the closest to classic washer sights and sounds available TODAY!


Post# 1041190 , Reply# 18   8/9/2019 at 12:47 (1,665 days old) by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

The best (and only solution) is to keep using it and not worry about it. The more you use it the faster it will go away. It took over 6 mos for it to go away on mine and it gets used a good amount.

Post# 1041380 , Reply# 19   8/11/2019 at 03:51 (1,663 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Lghh, hey John, I get it...if I do get a Speed Queen, I want the AWN542...more than likely refurbished because it's an older model (will not be able to find it brand new)...so indexing will no longer be a problem...something different for a little while...a million THANKS to Robert (unimatic1140) for teaching us how to use a SHAFT COUPLING that enable us to switch out and play with our favorite agitators in some daily drivers...everyone knows that the Kelvinator Ten-Vane "angel wings" agitator is one of my favorite...I think it'll look 'PURTIE' in Speed Queen's 3.3 cu.ft. Stainless Steel tub.
My 2005 Whirlpool Gold DD washer is out of commission...it hmms, fills up but, does not agitate or spin...not really sure what to do with it..any suggestions...don't have space for third washer...live in an apartment


Post# 1041383 , Reply# 20   8/11/2019 at 05:09 (1,663 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Does the 2005 WP DD need a new coupler?  


Post# 1041385 , Reply# 21   8/11/2019 at 05:21 (1,663 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Busted WP Gold .... if the motor runs and it drains then the coupler may be the issue.

If the motor doesn't run (hums for a bit then may shut off on thermal overheat until it cools and tries to run again) ... then could be a loose/burned wire or bad capacitor, bad speed switch (if equipped - problem occurs on all speed choices, or all cycles if speed is in the timer?), or bad timer, or a sock or some such jammed in the pump, or a mechanical problem with the transmission.


Post# 1041427 , Reply# 22   8/11/2019 at 11:45 (1,663 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Double checked---powers on (hum) and fills in the wash and rinse cycles...no sound in agitate or spin cycle...don't believe there's a chance of sock in the pump because basic loads aren't large enough and the neutral drain...which also stopped working...started spin draining

Post# 1041430 , Reply# 23   8/11/2019 at 12:27 (1,663 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Humming sound during filling is the water valve solenoids.† The motor doesn't receive power, of course, until the target water level is reached for agitation to start.

Silence from the drive motor during agitation (AFTER the target water level is reached) and during drain/spin = motor not receiving power.

First thing I'd check is the lid switch if this is a model that doesn't agitate with the lid open (or does the lid switch stop only spin/drain?).

Next thing is check the wires on the motor.

Proceed from there accordingly per the results.


Post# 1041433 , Reply# 24   8/11/2019 at 13:11 (1,663 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Thanks DaDoES, installed a new lid switch already...no agitation or spinning...drained tub with bucket last time I tried to use it...what do I need to look for regarding motor wires

Post# 1041450 , Reply# 25   8/11/2019 at 18:48 (1,663 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Visually examine them for burning.

Pull the connector off the motor.† Trace each wire to its other end and check for continuity from the connector terminal to the end.


Post# 1041725 , Reply# 26   8/14/2019 at 13:09 (1,660 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

Hey DaDoES, I didn't bother to check the motor, there's a website that I use for extra help called 'The Appliance Man' that provide step-by-step instructional videos for repair jobs...turns out that the motor coupling and the neutral drain clutch assembly are broken and need to be replaced...my Maytag A712 all of a sudden started and stop leaking as well, not sure what I'll do

Post# 1041753 , Reply# 27   8/14/2019 at 16:03 (1,660 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

A712 problem solved


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