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Thread Number: 80159
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
You asked for a Horizontal-Axis Top Load washer? |
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| Post# 1041150 , Reply# 1 8/8/2019 at 23:57 (1,867 days old) by Spinmon (st. charles mo ) | ||
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Not really my bag,but "no spin"? The laundry just tinkles on the floor? | ||
Post# 1041160 , Reply# 3 8/9/2019 at 04:20 (1,867 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Not really my bag,but "no spin"?"
Am by no means an expert, but imagine coming up with a top loading h-axis washer that can also cope with spin/extraction is no easy feat.
Here is an older AEG 664 with final rpm of "just" 560 rpms. Brandt Statomatic Now a more modern Miele SoftTronic: Notice the Miele is rock solid stable even at 1400 rpms. But care to have a guess how much it costs, and or R&D that went into getting to that level? A simple (no offence intended) top loading H-axis washer that does not spin is far easier (and cheaper) to design and build than one which incorporates extraction. Commercial/industrial laundries used "pony washers" that didn't extract for nearly 100 years (give or take) until early 1950's when first washer/extractors were invented. There is nothing inherently wrong with not spinning between wash and rinse, then all subsequent rinses. Front loaders have and still do offer this option on certain cycles. It is normally suggested such loads be half or less of rated capacity. This increases the water to load ratio which helps with better rinsing. Above and or one must have more rinse cycles to increase dilution factor before final extraction. Older front loaders that only extracted once if that between rinses had five or more deep rinses using ten gallons or more for 5kg of wash. Many modern front loaders have rinses down to three or less, with maybe more, but use may less water for each rinse cycle. Extracting between rinses means load will absorb more water at subsequent rinse cycles. But because pressure is being used to push chemicals and dirty water out of wash instead of just dilution, some feel it gives better results. Still others (including many laundry professionals) feel extracting after wash and between first (of a series) of rinses forces dirty/soapy water through fabrics which will act as a strainer. So there is quite a bit of range.... Being as all this may have used the Miele to wash loads that one knows or suspects won't spin properly. Simply use the permanent press cycle that does not spin between rinses. When machine is done, set it to drain, then either put wash through mangle or use the spin dryer. | ||
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Post# 1041162 , Reply# 5 8/9/2019 at 05:53 (1,867 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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I forgot to mention. It is made in Argentina (joint venture with a very traditional Argentinian company) and the project is 49% theirs and 51% mine. This partner have a similar model available in Argentina for years. Now their new model will be the same as the American version. | ||
| Post# 1041166 , Reply# 6 8/9/2019 at 06:54 (1,867 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) | ||
so an elderly person is of concern for moving/rolling the machine, but not of handling heavy wet clothing transfer from washer to spinner....
add in bending to empty the bucket from the spinner..... just trying to picture all of this, and to look at the practical side of things... 229.00 for a machine......add in the cost of a spin dryer....two plugs, and towels to dry the floor from water of transferring clothes... this may fit a certain criteria....but sometimes I think a twin tub would be a better option.... for example....this Giantex….washes, drain, rinses and spins....re-use of wash water....at about half the price of the washer alone! again, may not fit everyones needs, but if I had a choice... CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK
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| Post# 1041178 , Reply# 7 8/9/2019 at 07:40 (1,867 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
 All the Chinese twinnies look like they came out of the same dungeon umm sweatshop umm factory. I've got one, Panda. Works well BUT you've got to be there pretty much the whole time. The impeller speed is rough on fabric, likely using the same motor and pulley for 50 and 60Hz. Tangling IS an issue. Spinner is aces.
Watch those BOL models, they're gravity drain. | ||
| Post# 1041199 , Reply# 9 8/9/2019 at 17:14 (1,866 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA) | ||
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Just checked to see if Staber was still making machines, yep still going. | ||
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Post# 1041211 , Reply# 10 8/9/2019 at 18:57 (1,866 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Capacity
My AEG Lavamat toplader has same capacity as a front loading washer.
www.amazon.de/AEG-9132122... In fact most modern topladers can be had right at same capacities as front loaders 5kg to 7kg. Older units such as the AEG 485 had rated capacities for normal/cottons/linens at just a hair below front loaders, around 4.5 kg. But again you have to keep in mind these older machines lacked the sophisticated motor, drum and other controls to deal with OOB loads. This or indeed to keep machine stable even with a relatively normal load. www.manualslib.com/manual... | ||
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Post# 1041212 , Reply# 11 8/9/2019 at 18:58 (1,866 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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The Niagara is 10kg capacity. | ||
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Post# 1041222 , Reply# 12 8/9/2019 at 19:26 (1,866 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Well that settles things, doesn't it? | ||
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Post# 1041223 , Reply# 13 8/9/2019 at 19:34 (1,866 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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Yep, and that takes space, adds weight and the most important, adds cost to the product. | ||
| Post# 1041235 , Reply# 14 8/9/2019 at 22:58 (1,866 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa) | ||
 >> The concept around this washer is the following: >> ... >> making it spin would make the washer more expensive, much heavier and the shipping would also be much higher >> ... >> The suspension and counterweights take space, so the drum would be smaller, consequentially the capacity would >> be reduced. We would also have to transfer the dispensers to the lid, which is very complex and raises the cost. Thomas, I think you have thought this through, and it makes sense to you... but it would be helpful if your website communicated some of these design balances to your customers. For example, in the description section, you have a bulleted (check-marked) list of features, but "no spin" is the final bullet. This makes it look like "no spin" is a feature, when of course it isn't - it's a limitation that was accepted as part of a tradeoff for other aspects. Since customers don't know that other aspects were improved (or made possible) because of the elimination of the spin cycle, they won't understand any value that this design decision brings - it just looks like a shortcoming. I think it would also be helpful if you clarified how this machine fit into the "system" of machines you sell. For example, most people are familiar with having a washer and a dryer. Some percentage in ideal climates may get by with a washer only, and do their drying on a line outside. But a large-capacity washer in the modern world that doesn't have a spin cycle is a real curveball. Would a no-spin washer produce clothes that are too wet for going directly into a traditional tumble dryer? Would it work, but waste so much energy in the lengthened drying process that it negates the savings from using an efficient washer? Obviously your spin-dryer is an option, but I'm not sure it is a "solution" for someone wanting clothes to go from wash to completely dry without hanging. And the thought of needing *three* machines (a washer, a spin-dryer, and a tumble dryer) due to a "shortcoming" of the washer or a mismatch between the washer and tumble dryer, would be an instant deal-breaker for many, especially those in your target RV & Mobile Home markets where space is at a premium. It also seems to be perhaps oversized compared to your other products, so some of those tradeoffs were wasted? That 10kg (22lb) wash capacity is quite a bit more than your Ninja spin dryer (17lb) or tumble dryer (7.7lb), so each full wash load is going to take multiple passes through the dryers... and if someone were to wash something that utilized the machine's full capacity, or close to it, they are left scratching their heads on how to dry it? (Maybe you have a larger dryer in the pipeline to complement this?) Not intending to sound negative... just some things that stand out from looking at your website. As an outsider, I could see the appeal, but it leaves one with a lot of questions on how it all works in practice. | ||
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Post# 1041238 , Reply# 15 8/9/2019 at 23:18 (1,866 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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To be fair
Laundry Alternative has (or had) that mega spin dryer with a rated capacity of 22 lbs.
www.walmart.com/ip/The-La... That being said as one who again often transfers sopping wet wash from either a washing machine or tubs into spin dryer, it can get old fast. IMHO American housewives and others contemplating this washer ought have the fact it does not extract hugely reinforced. People see what they want, and even when something is clearly mentioned in advertising/marketing copy no end glace over. Only to get the thing and find out it isn't what they wanted/needed, then all heck breaks loose. While many of us here love the idea of an "old fashioned" wash day using various semi-automatic laundry appliances, people need to clearly understand what they're getting. | ||
| Post# 1041258 , Reply# 16 8/10/2019 at 06:27 (1,866 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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The tumble drain imparts some centrifugal force. Given some time the result may not sop.
Yes, three laundry machines runs up against the 'compact' concept. Not readily stackable either, their weights and functions. Except for the donut store my entire life takes place in ~300 sq ft; those 3 machines in use would glom the entire kitchen floorspace. Might could/not even open the fridge.
Nature of invention and subsequent marketing. The compromises, pricepoint, and most intangibly at the outset, market demand/acceptance. You don't know what those dice say until you platz your money and wait until they stop rolling.
Congrats and best wishes to Thomas and TLA. | ||
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Post# 1041269 , Reply# 18 8/10/2019 at 07:32 (1,866 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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22 Pound Capacity ?  In a plastic machine that weighs 20 pounds, 22 pounds of bath towels is about 22 large bath towels, I bet you would have a hard time getting 10 towels in the machine.
Then show us a video of 22 pounds of towels washing in this washer.
Sopping wet this load will weigh 50 pounds + and I have yet to see a spin drier that can handle this size load, I have a SpinX that can handle about 4 towels and that is a heavy load for it.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1041275 , Reply# 19 8/10/2019 at 09:43 (1,866 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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Should note: Mine is "smuggled", neighbor a chronic complainer, no problem has arisen. As well, building is flimsy, absolute minimum to squeak by code. I do run it infrequently and redistribute if it shimmies.
The one remaining mainstream US appliance mfr is not going to come out with 'alternatives' and China only copies what's already been done. Puts TLA in favorable position. | ||
| Post# 1041283 , Reply# 20 8/10/2019 at 11:01 (1,866 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) | ||
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Post# 1041308 , Reply# 21 8/10/2019 at 14:51 (1,866 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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John It handles that load easily. Of course, the dry load will be packed in the drum, but one is starts filling, the load saturates then there's room to wash them. It depends, of course, on your definition of "large". The test is considering a standard "hotel" towel, not those Lacoste giant towels sold at Macy's. four of those towels would fill that LG top load washer that claims to have the largest drum in the world. | ||
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Post# 1041602 , Reply# 22 8/13/2019 at 12:38 (1,863 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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@Yogitunes Sure! Send me a 1-18! It will be my pleasure to compare... I can't give you any guarantee that the 1-18 will go back. LOL | ||
| Post# 1131546 , Reply# 27 10/20/2021 at 23:32 (1,063 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada) | ||
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| Post# 1132320 , Reply# 28 10/30/2021 at 02:49 (1,054 days old) by sunspot42 (San Francisco) | ||
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Any idea when the washer/dryer model will finally come out? I've been haunting The Laundry Alternative's website the past few months. | ||
| Post# 1132346 , Reply# 30 10/30/2021 at 14:32 (1,054 days old) by sunspot42 (San Francisco) | ||
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I'm guessing the larger appliance manufacturers - especially the ones in China - will get preferential treatment and still be able to produce quite a bit of equipment. We're now learning the full price for outsourcing so much of our manufacturing capacity. Oh well...better late than never, right? | ||
| Post# 1135399 , Reply# 32 12/5/2021 at 19:50 (1,017 days old) by flowerdrumsong (NJ) | ||
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Laundry Alternative has interesting items, thinking of getting something from there, and this thread is a big help. | ||
| Post# 1151270 , Reply# 34 6/15/2022 at 23:32 (825 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) | ||
LOVE IT!
I bought the Niagra and the Ninja Spin drier. Awesome cleaning power but yet gentle on your clothes.
The washer is so spacious. I can wash several sheets at once. You get all the benefits of an efficient front load washer in a light weight, compact, easy to move around package that is top loading. The spin drier I forget how much the RPMs are but they are like 1600+ and it really spins out the water in just a few minutes. It has well designed suspension system so it handles unbalanced loads quite well. The washer has a timer and you can select how long of a wash you want. It has a water valve and automatically fills to the correct level. When done washing it drains at a NICE pace (not too fast so as not to overwhelm slower drains) then refills and repeats 3 more times. What I do after the first wash is remove the clothes and spin them out. While they are spinning out I hose down the washer tub and let it drain all the suds out, I spray the clothes a few times and let them spin out most suds, then return the clothes to the washer and let it complete. That's when I do the final spinout with no spray rinse. This machine even has an automatic fabric softener dispenser for the last rinse. Someone really did an excellent job of thinking this out. I had one of the washers shown above in post #6 but the wash tub was too small, the impeller could damage clothing, it was LOUD, and the spin drier was kind of slow and small. It was also difficult to wash shoes in without some kind of guard in place to keep the shoes from touching the impeller. With the Niagra you can wash several pair of shoes without any additional steps. I'm so glad I got these. | ||
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Post# 1208658 , Reply# 36 7/4/2024 at 10:16 by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) |
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Where’d it go? | ||
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Post# 1208665 , Reply# 38 7/4/2024 at 12:51 by chetlaham (United States) |
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 Thats a shame! Does anyone know why the machine is no longer being sold?
I wanted to buy one but was never able to obtain a wiring diagram/cycle sequence so I just gave up.
I wish they made a full size Staber like version of this machine and a front load version.
Guess I might have been wrong about there being a market demand for low cost no-spin automatic tumble action washers.
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Post# 1208687 , Reply# 39 7/4/2024 at 17:52 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Years ago now one of those persons who bid and buy contents of storage lockers (often unseen) had two of those Niagara washers up for bid. Both were NOS still in cartons.
It was fleaPay IIRC and they weren't asking much and were local which made it interesting. In end didn't bother as already had Hoover TT and Maytag WW so was spoiled for choice with semi-automatic washers. Fact one would need to move things into spin dryer (or use a mangle) for extraction was either a plus or minus depending upon how one used the machine. Since neither of our spin driers can handle large bulky items doing anything but normal wash day things was out of question. Cannot recall if one already had AEG toplader or acquired afterward. In any event that machine made the Niagara redundant. www.automaticwasher.org/c... | ||
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