Thread Number: 80321  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
IFA 2019
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Post# 1042657   8/24/2019 at 17:39 (1,641 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Don't think we started that disgussion yet...

BSH is finally adding a recirc to some machines and has a new full graphic display on the way.

From Miele so far I only found manuals with 40-60Eco cycle which is new.

AEG ELux is bringing a new DW interface which is basicly a spin on the time manager system: You have an Auto cycle, 4 timed cycles plus 2 options.

Post# 1042684 , Reply# 1   8/25/2019 at 01:19 (1,641 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Come on guys... I'm also curious!

Post# 1042687 , Reply# 2   8/25/2019 at 05:15 (1,641 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
So my findings


For BSH I only have the German press release sadly:

They also updated their PerfectBake sensor to offer predicted times of finish:

For Miele I just have this manual (model WCG660 and WCG670):
There are several WCG models with even less info listed...

Post# 1042692 , Reply# 3   8/25/2019 at 06:07 (1,640 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Thanks for sharing this. AEG is getting less and less desirable to me. I guess I would be using the ExtraPower setting all the time.

Interesting that Bosch changed the self cleaning lint filters on the dryers. I guess it is more environmentally friendly to collect the lint rather than flushing it.

And what happened to those wonderful Miele manuals?

Post# 1042693 , Reply# 4   8/25/2019 at 06:55 (1,640 days old) by Washerguy02 (Manchester )        

washerguy02's profile picture
I quite like the new Bosch range from 2019. It's nice they've added recirculation jets just like others on the market. I wonder how differently they'll be in operation compared to previous models and what the water levels will be like. Maybe they'll be low.

I also agree with foraloysius about AEG. AEG imo have gone downhil. I dont like their new models.


P.S I haven't posted in a while

Post# 1042694 , Reply# 5   8/25/2019 at 07:22 (1,640 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Miele manuals

That's the short user guide. There isn't a full manual for that model yet.

I finde these new models by doing general searches for machine terms used in their machine designations and cross refference those to what is on the site. If something has all 4 manuals it's either launched or close to launch.

The further out models only have their warranty terms, the confirmaty declarations ready.
Then they add the short user manual and then the full manual last.

On the AEG thing:

I actually am and was always was a huge fan of the AEG brand tbh.

They always had what I wanted in washers, and their DWs were always different.

The new user-interface is something I would need getting used to.
Most wouldn't notice the Dry icon and complain that the shortest cycles leave dishes wet.

But since I run upwards of 80% of loads on unmodified Auto cycle I perefctly happy if they kept their pretty good Auto cycle.

They modified their cuttlery tray on some models to prevent their issue of wet spots on cuttlery, but haven't seen a review on that yet...

BSH are adding their first true 1h wash with their I think it's called "PowerSpedd 59" cycle.
And I would be perfectly happy with a really low water level wash if the recirc is used well.

Post# 1042702 , Reply# 6   8/25/2019 at 09:00 (1,640 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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AEG presented that interface last year, I think, but never implemented it on their dishwashers.

LG also have a new front loader with Turbo Wash 360, variable spray pressure on load sensing (on some cycles) that can "feel" the load.


Post# 1042748 , Reply# 7   8/26/2019 at 06:43 (1,639 days old) by l86810 (Southend, UK)        

Thanks for opening the tread Henrik! :) I enjoy reading all the updates which come through this time of year.

I've attached a link to the user manual of one of the new Bosch models... although not an awful lot of data in there.

What I thought was interesting was when I translated the press release, under the '4D Wash System' it said ... "Here, water is sprayed specifically into the "wash tunnel", a kind of cavity that form the textiles due to the rotation in the drum."

To me this sounds like the drum will distribute or even spin, while spraying the load... so maybe a kind of take on Miele's PowerWash 2.0? It was also explain why they have suddenly removed the 'Eco Perfect' option from the models with the 4D wash, and kept only 'Speed Perfect'?

What do you guys think?


Post# 1043820 , Reply# 8   9/4/2019 at 15:32 (1,630 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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Here's Miele's press kit.

Post# 1043951 , Reply# 9   9/6/2019 at 01:55 (1,629 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Oh My-just another bagless stick vacuum-when is this bagless stick vacuum madness going to END???Really---just another cordless crumb and doormat vacuum.Meile should be better than that.

Post# 1043996 , Reply# 10   9/6/2019 at 13:00 (1,628 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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I just on my back from IFA. I like the Miele vac - a little heavy, though. All in all, the cordless market is growing really fast, the Samsung rep told me. I tend to believe him; people are drawn to these cordless vacuums.

Post# 1045065 , Reply# 11   9/16/2019 at 07:43 (1,618 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Haier 1-1 reversing

Ok, so, I never liked Haiers machines, but I just watched nrones IFA video for Haier, and oh my god, they offer dryers with seperate motor for drum and fan.

Post# 1045139 , Reply# 12   9/17/2019 at 00:24 (1,618 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
New Miele T1 heat pump dryers

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That's why I've kept my Miele T8627 WP heat pump dryer as it was the last with 2 motors. They used to market it as TwinPower. I gave the T1 to my parents as I didn't like how it dried bedding. I know they now have a bed linen program on the new ones, but not sure how it works?

Post# 1045154 , Reply# 13   9/17/2019 at 07:59 (1,617 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Bed linen cycle

Here's a video on the cycle:

Post# 1045186 , Reply# 14   9/17/2019 at 14:14 (1,617 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

"Oh My-just another bagless stick vacuum-when is this bagless stick vacuum madness going to END???Really---just another cordless crumb and doormat vacuum.Meile should be better than that."

Well, I never liked the Dysons but a few weeks ago I used one at a friend's house (he's that new member that got the Turquise Maytags) and I was quite impressed.

His model isn't the TOL. Maybe it's a V7 or V8.

Then i realized, those vacs are not exactly a "doormat vac". You can't, of course, vacuum the whole house at once, but with the convenience of being cordless, one can easily vacuum more constantly smaller areas instead of the chore of having to vacuum the whole house at once and vacuuming more frequently also means less dirt to be vacuumed.

Of course, I'm also not considering a carpeted house, but one with hard floors.

I can say it's the first time I looked at those Dysons with different eyes, specially the newer models that have a bigger dust cup and much better capacity batteries.

Post# 1045187 , Reply# 15   9/17/2019 at 14:36 (1,617 days old) by FreshNclean (WA)        
Any interesting washers ?

Are there any washers that’s eye catching?? Or features ?
How are the asko washers this year?
What about the new little giants ?

Post# 1045194 , Reply# 16   9/17/2019 at 16:05 (1,617 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Working in retail store service department

The Dyson cordless machines are pretty decent overall and with the V11 now offering something like 40min on their new Auto setting with a cleaner head attached, they are getting closer to actually being abled to be a corded replacement.

Carpet deep cleaning is actually pretty decent, Vacuum Wars is a good channel for resources for that:

Only thing: Get an extended warranty that covers the battery. If you actually use it as a main vacuum your battery (and most likely some other parts) will never last 5 years, sometimes you don't even get 2 or 3 years.
And if you think it's not worth it: Dysons battery service is something like 150€ or so IIRC.

On washers: Nothing really interesting IMO...
Asko just overhauled last year, so nothing new there...

Post# 1045239 , Reply# 17   9/18/2019 at 00:47 (1,617 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

At what these stick vacs cost---you can just buy a REAL vacuum with an easy to change Filtrete BAG!So much BETTER and easier!Stick vacuums were usually LOW priced-and used for crumbs and spilled cereial on the kitchen floor or vacuuming doormats.And yes you could use them for small spills or messes.

Post# 1045506 , Reply# 18   9/20/2019 at 18:16 (1,614 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Haier machines

I agree with Henene4, I think the Haier machines actually do 'look the part' this time around. Better than the styling of the Hoover and Candy machines.

A link to Nrones video:

Post# 1047682 , Reply# 19   10/14/2019 at 11:19 (1,590 days old) by Nick (UK)        
IFA topics

The reason cordless stick vacs have suddenly exploded in popularity in Europe is regulatory...all the mains powered vacuums now have an energy label on display in the shops (cordless battery ones don't have to), and the regulation is strict, with the brands not able to use a motor over 900W anymore. Energy, carpet cleaning, hard floor cleaning, filtration % efficiency and noise are all formally declared on this label for a mains powered product, and energy maximum legal thresholds are painful - causing a balancing act, and floor heads that grip the floor like their lives depend on it.

This energy label is not flattering...meanwhile the Lithium battery tech has gotten a lot better (and cheaper) so these cordless beasts are within spitting distance of mains powered performance (for 7~8 minutes anyway), and they are not forced in the shops to display a tag that reveals to the consumer their weakness (the brands for the mains powered machines can choose a graded label that, in effect, says either "I am inefficient", "I am noisy" or "I am pathetic at doing the job"). Hence Cylinders and Uprights are crashing, and this unregulated battery product is really popular...and robot cleaners are also growing fast at the same time.

Did anyone get good details in Berlin for Siemens/Bosch laundry quick wash stories and the wash capacity it relates to? I am struggling, may need to speak to their European office.

I am finding a lot of confusion around claims made that the 59 minute cycle is A grade wash performance at maximum capacity (9~10KG) which was the story at the show (this is important as a much needed and long overdue answer to Samsung Q-Drive with the split drum). The manuals and backup files seem to indicate these quick claims are actually 5KG (which is not as good as Samsung) but it is crazy confusing between documents/human reports.

This wash tunnel and 4D wash system story involves:
Accelerated 200 RPM rotation during normal wash phase for extra mechanical action - hence how it creates the "tunnel"
More water with heating, thus more energy use
The spray nozzles from above that speed up detergent dissolution and increase soaking etc
The recirculation pump

4D is applied to speed/quick to boost performance in a limited time, 4D is applied to Intensive, adding extra 30 minutes (approx....its guided by turbidity) to boost end result.

I am finishing up a monster IFA review for a client...if you have questions about what was at the show, fire away...I have a laundry/dish and smart home focus, looking at appliances, detergents and 3rd party implications, my background is product management, R&D and strategy...I am fairly fluent in marketing and can speak a little engineer...

Post# 1047690 , Reply# 20   10/14/2019 at 12:30 (1,590 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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Yes, the manual and the press release both state that the 59-minute cycle is rated for up to 5 kg - which is on par with similar cycles by other brands.

From what I have seen on YouTube, a large load will increase the cycle time on the Q-Drive models as the backplate action is reduced. A full 9kg load at 60C resulted in a cycle time of 2:03 hrs in this Samsung washer.

Post# 1047699 , Reply# 21   10/14/2019 at 14:37 (1,590 days old) by donprohel (I live in Munich - Germany, but I am Italian)        
Energy label for vacumm cleaners... dead and buried, does not exist any more.

I have only found this article from Which?, but I am sure a little Google-ing would deliver further information.


Post# 1047764 , Reply# 22   10/15/2019 at 09:34 (1,589 days old) by Nick (UK)        

Thank you for that donprohel - European appliance brands will be even stronger EU commission haters after much wasted R&D effort, and how big a swing will happen back towards traditional units now? Man, they messed that one up so badly.

Post# 1047772 , Reply# 23   10/15/2019 at 10:56 (1,589 days old) by donprohel (I live in Munich - Germany, but I am Italian)        
You are welcome, Nick

However, I am not sure there has been any R&D effort at all.

In my opinion, EU appliance brands have just used a cheaper and less powerful motor using the "Energy label" to advertise how good their under-performing vacuums were

Post# 1047773 , Reply# 24   10/15/2019 at 11:52 (1,589 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

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The biggest problem with the Dyson handhelds is that as each generation becomes larger and heavier, they become more cumbersome to use.

DC59: 4.6 lbs
V6: 4.9 lbs
V7: 5.45 lbs
V8: 5.63 lbs
V10: 5.9 lbs
V11: 6.68 lbs

Sure the V11 can for most folks replace their plug-in vacuum... but what replaces the compact and lightweight handheld that the Dyson itself once was?

Post# 1047781 , Reply# 25   10/15/2019 at 14:55 (1,589 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

as cars got better, they also get a bit larger, or at least used to. I dunno what I'd expect a company to do, other than improve a design, and run out it's planned obsolecense life of a decade or so before debuting an altogether new model, though they tout each new facelift as "all new". Most things have been done before.
I uesd to say a car was all new when the undercarriage frame, or platform, and suspension parts were totally different from the previous generations. This usd to occur about every 5 to 7 years, when we were a more throw away society, and sales were much higher.

Post# 1047847 , Reply# 26   10/16/2019 at 13:33 (1,588 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

>> Well, as cars got better, they also get a bit larger, or at least used to.

The difference, of course, being that people don't routinely climb into vacuum cleaners, nor do they carry cars around with their arms. :D

Post# 1048675 , Reply# 27   10/24/2019 at 16:45 (1,580 days old) by miele4life (Nottingham, UK )        

great selection of machines at this year's IFA, I quite like the new Vestel models with the fun to watch JetSystem, as well as more Hoover/Candy models getting a Bianca-style scrolling-text display across the range too, the new Bosch/Siemens models with the JetSystem looks good and I look forward to seeing 1 in action too, I also noticed that the Serie 2 models are being updated as well using the WAE/WAN design. Not a bad selection this year. :)

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