Thread Number: 80468  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Scientific view on (US) washers
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Post# 1044339   9/9/2019 at 18:10 (1,771 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Post# 1044435 , Reply# 1   9/10/2019 at 14:00 (1,770 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

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That was more than I needed to know!


Post# 1044437 , Reply# 2   9/10/2019 at 14:19 (1,770 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Sorry but the Nose Ring killed it for me.

Post# 1044441 , Reply# 3   9/10/2019 at 14:58 (1,770 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Actually, the gist here really is: Rinsing is key.

And if the nose ring kills you you haven't walked through a university cafeteria recently...

My brother is doing his chemistry doctorate, he's currently 24 years old, has a bald spot on the back of his head, about 8 inch long hair, goes to the hairdresser about once a year, wears the same shirts since he started his studies, and shaves about once every 2 or 3 months...

People who get REALLY deep into science get really weired... There was a tumblr joke once anlong the lines of a student going to a symposium with his professor and him being shocked at another professor eating a slice of water melon sandwiched in a bagel and his prof just replying "Once you have a nobel price nobody dares to ask questions anymore..."

Post# 1044442 , Reply# 4   9/10/2019 at 15:11 (1,770 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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SciShow is one of several YouTube channels I follow.  Olivia isn't their only video host.

Post# 1044444 , Reply# 5   9/10/2019 at 15:22 (1,770 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Didn't mention

bubble action nor that detergents also suspend dirt in water, or that fabrics are not like non porous surfaces which can be cleaned well with sonic waves either.

Post# 1044452 , Reply# 6   9/10/2019 at 16:08 (1,770 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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The best part what when she mentioned that with knowledge like this we might better maximize our water and energy efficiency. Life always improves with understanding!

The word for the day was worth a few minute dig too :)

  View Full Size
Post# 1044457 , Reply# 7   9/10/2019 at 17:01 (1,770 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I suppose I should feel using the Normal/Eco cycle with its spray rinses, but I don't. My clothes, bedding, towels, etc., don't appear dirty; or have an off-smell; nor have I gotten sick using kitchen whites that have had only spray rinses.

Video was interesting, though, and I'm certainly not arguing with the science involved with rinsing.

In fact, I watched the next one on fabric brighteners, which led to a TED Talk on psychopathic behavior. So nearly an hour well spent, then. YouTube: The occasionally enlightening rabbit hole.

Post# 1044462 , Reply# 8   9/10/2019 at 17:47 (1,770 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply#7

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I find your post interesting and affirming based on my own recent experience.
In April my Maytag Centennial TL, which I had been so pleased with developed a bad bearing and it sounded like it was going to go into orbit every time it went into a spin.

Finally, in June it got to the point where it sometimes wasn’t extracting as much water as it used to and I couldn’t tolerate the noise anymore. The repair was going to cost at least $300.00. So I said screw it, and bought a new Roper RTW4516FW2, for just a little more that it would have cost to repair the Maytag.

This machine will fill right to the top row of holes in the tub if I select Deep Wash, and performs just exactly like an old school TL. But I hate to waste water if I can help it.

So, to get around to my point I thought why not give the Regular/Normal cycle with auto sense fill and no extra rinse a try? If I wasn’t pleased I just wouldn’t use this cycle again. Well, much to my surprise, the clothes came out even cleaner with the lower water level and spray rinse! I attribute this to the improved HE detergents that have minimal suds and allow the detergent to be more concentrated, thereby doing a better job removing stains, especially oil stains.

We use cloth napkins for dinner everyday, and they almost always have a few spots of salad dressing on them, and they come out completely spot free. And even with just the spray rinse, there is no residual detergent, no off odors and this washer extracts so well that the clothes dry in 20 to 45 mins, depending upon the weight of the fabric and size of the load. And best of all the Normal/Regular cycle with auto sense fill and no extra rinse, hot water wash finishes in 35 mins flat! So I now can wash and dry 3 loads of laundry in 2 1/2 hrs, start to finish.

I would have never believed this to be possible, but it is. Sometimes they do get new technology right. The combination of the lower water level, an good agitator and good HE detergent really does the trick. I am far more pleased with this BOL inexpensive washer than I ever was with the LG FL I had about 4 years ago, it was a real time waster and a PITA.

I am under no illusion that this washer will last forever, nothing these days has the build quality of yore. But I sure will enjoy this bargain basement machine while it lasts, and I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it with another should it ever become necessary.

Oh, and I saved the lid latch from the old Maytag, so I’ve been able to leave the lid open to watch the performance, and even with the auto sense fill lower water level the clothes still turn over and with the deep fill they roll over just like they do in any old school TL, but the cycle takes about 75 mins, because of the long fill times for the wash and rinse.

The posts and videos by Eugene of Lorraine furniture are what made me consider this machine and I thank him for these. They were very helpful.


This post was last edited 09/10/2019 at 18:07
Post# 1044464 , Reply# 9   9/10/2019 at 18:17 (1,770 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Nose Ring

toploader55's profile picture

I respect you as you are a very smart young man.

But at 64 years old, I try to keep a open mind.

But what these people do with ink, piercings, an other means of what I call abusing their Body, I will never understand.

Just old, set in my ways and will never understand it.

When I see a handsome young man, with a perfectly sculpted body and beautiful skin, when they cover their arms, face, neck and where ever, I just cringe and cannot get it.

Post# 1044467 , Reply# 10   9/10/2019 at 18:49 (1,770 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Eddie (ea56): I’m glad you’re finding the spray rinses work pretty well, too! Sometimes I wash huge loads; those get a deep rinse. But small-to-medium large loads that were not bleached get spray rinses. Honestly, I can’t tell the difference in the finished product. Congrats on your new (and enticingly inexpensive) Roper! I saw the Amana version at the local Whirlpool/Maytag/KitchenAid dealership. They were tagged at $375 for each (washer and dryer). I was impressed with the performance in Eugene’s videos as well.

Eddie (toploader55): Interestingly, the same girl wasn’t wearing a nose ring in the fabric brightener video. However, she was wearing a woolie. Maybe the production team told her it would have to be one or the other, LOL.

Post# 1044504 , Reply# 11   9/11/2019 at 07:01 (1,769 days old) by Sudsomatic (Indiana)        
Dirt can't hide from Intensified Tide

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Thanks for the link henene, that was fascinating. Something you don't think about.. you just feel as if you know, but I actually didn't.


It's funny because one of the first things that came to mind was this old Tide commercial



I bought an old  box of Intensified Tide as a gift for my 806 Maytag last year and did some research on it to learn more about the difference from regular Tide (from that era) finding this commercial. As I watched it I couldn't help but think "Would the tucked sleeve really come out dirty being washed with regular detergent?" After watching the commercial a few times Tide made me a believer in the Intensified formula and wondered why they ever discontinued it.


Now I see that it likely would have come clean regardless.



Post# 1044561 , Reply# 12   9/11/2019 at 18:41 (1,769 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Maytag's Normal half tub / spray rinse

The Normal "Eco" cycle on the Maytag mvwp575gw is a half tub wash and has a spray rinse. It works great for quick washes and even regular loads. I use it all the time. However, I don't like that I cannot control the temperature for that cycle without modifying the setup or manually adding hot water in the tub to get the desired hot or warm wash temp :-(. THIS is the single.biggest.annoyance for me. The ATC on the main cycles doesn't really bother me.

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

Post# 1044583 , Reply# 13   9/11/2019 at 20:42 (1,768 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

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I've run a very unscientific experiments with my Speed Queen on the Normal/Eco cycle.  I've washed a couple of loads on the medium water level and allowed the cycle to spray rinse the loads.  Both times, I then ran it through the Rinse/Spin cycle on medium.  Both times, the rinse water in the Rinse/Spin was quite clear, which leads me to believe that Normal/Eco does a pretty decent job of rinsing small loads.


If I understood this video correctly, a deep bath rinse is necessary to completely CLEAN the laundry.

Post# 1044785 , Reply# 14   9/13/2019 at 15:31 (1,767 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

It sounds like the more water after a wash with detergent, the better, at least up to a point. It doesn't have to be a long rinse but more water will remove the dirt better. I like an extra rinse and spin with all of my loads so I do three rinses after my washes.

Post# 1044851 , Reply# 15   9/14/2019 at 06:37 (1,766 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

"If I understood this video correctly, a deep bath rinse is necessary to completely CLEAN the laundry."

I took it to mean that clean rinse water was necessary in order to 'pull' the soil-detergent emulsion out of the clothes. I imagine that several rinses, even if just shallow rinse baths, will be much more effective than just one or two rinses.

"The Liberator rinses four times."
"Four deep rinses are vital to get the very best results."

So says this audio recording, from about 3mins 15secs to about 3mins 40secs:

Courtesy of Vacbear58.

Post# 1044897 , Reply# 16   9/14/2019 at 20:20 (1,765 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Sat down and watched video, though don't see anything that would limit the presentation to "US" washing machine only.

That being said one knew much of what was stated already, and presume others past and present did as well. Even if we didn't know all of the science and so forth.

As one has repeatedly stated, rinsing is a process of dilution which by nature must take place using significantly more water than for washing. Whether one prefers using copious amounts of fresh water (immersion), and or frequent changes using smaller amounts (as H-axis machines often do), the introduction of fresh water is needed to complete the laundering process.

We know from college and or high school science classes that diffusion is movement of something from an area of high concentration to low. The forces which cause said movement are varied, but never the less it still takes place.

Post# 1044956 , Reply# 17   9/15/2019 at 07:38 (1,765 days old) by ladd (Maryland)        
Re: spray rinse vs "fill" rinse

Re: spray rinse vs "fill" rinse

On my new SQ TC5000, the ECO/Normal cycle uses a spray rinse.

BUT, if you add the option of an extra rinse, the spray rinse doesn't happen; you get two filled rinses.

Post# 1044972 , Reply# 18   9/15/2019 at 09:47 (1,765 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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The English Electric above takes mechanical design cues from slant-era Westy.


Two things I like best about my twinnie:  Rinse and spin.  You see the water exit the hose;  when it's cloudy you're not done rinsing.  Spinner turns out towels dry enough to use (if a bit clammy on the skin).

Post# 1044973 , Reply# 19   9/15/2019 at 10:18 (1,765 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
MT 575 Normal Options Selected / SQ TC5 Normal HD

MT 575

To the best of my knowledge, selecting any of the options including presoak (full tub presoak that turns into full tub wash/full tub rinse), extra rinse (full tub wash/2 full tub rinses), or presoak/extra rinse (full tub prewash that turns into full tub wash/2 full tub rinses) essentially turns the Normal "Eco" cycle into a full tub fill with full tub rinse(s)depending on options chosen. The temperature can also be controlled too. It becomes another option for a main cycle. However, with no options selected, the temperature seems to fixed to a cool wash.

I have not found any way to always be able to control the temp for the Normal cycle other than to run a Y adapter with hot and cold to the cold inlet valve and use the washer outlet boxes to control the temperature. (Most Y adapters with levers I have seen are designed for outdoor and cold water use only.) Relocating the ATC sensor only (and using the wash temp controls to manually control wash temp) seems to work during the winter when the air temp of that add-on room is slightly cooler than the rest of the house, which would be less than 65 degrees F? This would make sense since I think the ATC would activate and continue to activate the hot water valve if the wash temp is below this (and it will be since it is sensing air temp) even for the Normal cycle.

Being a little techy, I have combed through the manuals and posts I could find trying to look for jumpers, switches, etc. that would disable the ATC or energy-saving features or and have not found any yet...

The Powerwash may be a tap hot wash :-). I am going to test this some more.


What I thought was unique about the TC5's Normal, is that selecting Heavy Duty turns it into a super cycle with a longer wash where the water temperature can be controlled. I did not watch it again, but it looks like (in the parts I watched again) it still has the spray rinse. However, the spray rinse does not *seem* to wet down the clothes effectively as the MTs.

Overall win for TC5, though, on this point due to temp control options and super cycle with HD.

Link to YT video referred to is below.


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