Thread Number: 80949
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Ideas why Miele W1 might be tripping waterproof error? |
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Post# 1049522 , Reply# 2   10/31/2019 at 04:24 (1,638 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)   |   | |
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The only time I’ve tripped the switch was on a W3933 that had failed bearings. On a really sudsy load, it’d leak and then stop till it dried out. The only other thing could be an oversuds, but if there is water in the sump there is probably a leak. |
Post# 1049535 , Reply# 3   10/31/2019 at 08:40 (1,638 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1049558 , Reply# 6   10/31/2019 at 13:33 (1,638 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
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Ok Combo52 we hear you. You don’t like the European way of doing anything. Make a thread, tell us all and then we can be done with it.
We can pick fault with most American ways, especially your washers. By euro standards it appears you’ve never had a properly automatic washer or dishwasher in America until euro machines were imported. It’s clear you’ve only ever had automatic rinsing machines given the amount of baby sitting, stain treating, pre washing, soaking and other mollycoddling required by use of laundry additives and stain removers. Real washing machines, real dishwashers. LOL. Back on topic, OP is it possible that the water is coming from a leaky internal hose or cracked soap dispenser housing/ cavity? Another member here found this to be the case with his. |
Post# 1049569 , Reply# 8   10/31/2019 at 18:15 (1,638 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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In dishwashers and automatic washers.
These things go off constantly when there’s no real leak it’s the most common service call on Bosch dishwashers and Fisher Paycal dish drawers in this country by a long shot. Very seldom is there any serious leak just a little bit of water under the machine which would never have caused a problem with the dishwasher or damage to the home compared to a dishwasher that did not have the system. Washing machines and dishwashers very seldom call series floods in a home And Our home should be built properly to contain and control leakage. There is no possibilityThat billions of dollars of damage has been saved by These troublesome and expensive system’s. . You guys should get out in the real world and actually work on appliances and see what goes wrong with them. John |
Post# 1049620 , Reply# 12   11/1/2019 at 10:56 (1,637 days old) by SGT10 (California )   |   | |
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Jerrod- also, that’s a good tip about the fill valves. My water is extremely hard here, so perhaps that has some impact on the internals (although admittedly the previous w4840 did not have a problem - although it did have other problems that led to its ultimate demise). |
Post# 1049621 , Reply# 13   11/1/2019 at 10:58 (1,637 days old) by SGT10 (California )   |   | |
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Henene4- thank you. it sounds like I should try my best to get the tech to open the machine and take a look, which he did not do last time. |
Post# 1049651 , Reply# 15   11/1/2019 at 19:42 (1,637 days old) by SGT10 (California )   |   | |
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Thank you! I will have to wait to find out more as Miele Tech canceled on me today (very frustrating after staying home waiting). Do you think I should be concerned about the recirc pump error? |
Post# 1049667 , Reply# 16   11/2/2019 at 02:30 (1,636 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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Not really. Happens on occasion. |
Post# 1049672 , Reply# 17   11/2/2019 at 06:17 (1,636 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Welcome to the club, I like to call it "good morning heartache, sit down..".
Without meaning to give offence, MieleUSA at times seems to embody the worse traits of German stubbornness. You call customer service/tech support reporting an issue. After describing the problem you get "no, that cannot be happening, the machine/appliance does not do that". Should you insist that issue is indeed occurring Miele's next response will be "what you done to the machine/appliance?". When pushed further " you must have used too much detergent" or "you don't know how to operate the washer...", "you used incorrect product....". When all is said and done an appointment for a call out is made. This will likely be one, two, three or more weeks off. Meanwhile you may or may not have use of said appliance. On appointed day tech arrives and there are several outcomes. He examines appliance and lo/behold it *IS* doing what was reported, but tech cannot pin point why. Or, appliance is doing what was reported but tech cannot do repair atm due to lack of parts, time or whatever. Or, appliance isn't acting up at that moment, and you cannot duplicate the problem for tech to see. In any event you now have to pay out for service call. If machine needs repair *and* tech can do the work another future date will be booked. Again this can be one week, two, three.... Heaven help you if tech doesn't have parts needed in his stash. That means parts will have to be ordered from New Jersey if in stock. If they aren't you'll have to wait for next shipment from Europe. Again either way you may be without use of appliance for another week, two, etc... until part or parts arrive, *and* tech can once again book you in. MieleUSA's weakness has always been lack of a serious nationwide tech/repair service fleet. If one lives in NYC/NJ/PA or Conn area (all close to Princeton, NJ), then things may be slightly better. But further away one goes pickings can be slim. IIRC a member from MA had a service call from a Miele tech who drove all the way up from NJ. |
Post# 1050133 , Reply# 21   11/7/2019 at 02:56 (1,631 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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If relatively new and under warranty (or maybe not),I'd go up the food chain and get a new washer from Miele. That or you shouldn't be charged for call out or repair.
Tell Miele you're fed up and stress this is a new washer which shouldn't be having these sort of issues. Don't be fobbed off to or by a minor functionary. Let them know you mean business. |
Post# 1050135 , Reply# 22   11/7/2019 at 03:36 (1,631 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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The residue in the drip pan doesn`t look like plain water to me.
Do you have iron or anything else yellowing in your water supply? Would be interesting to know if there is a slippery feel to this residue which would suggest detergent residue and maybe an additional leak as you suspect. I have a much older Miele model and occasionally it happens that I misjudge the degree of soiling and then end up with a lit up oversuds light. But in all those years I`ve had the washer there wasn`t a single waterproof error. Have to say the light only did come on when several attempts to spin failed and an extra rinse was added. However I`ve never had an oversuds situation so bad that suds would pour out of the detergent dispenser and then possibly find their way over the pump housing into the drip pan. You mention a few seconds of a show off phase at the beginning of the wash cycle. I was wondering if the newer Mieles don`t fill in the rinse cycles the same way anymore. Mine does and of course it takes much longer than 10 seconds. The purpose is to keep the door glass and boot free of detergent residue. The reason for doing this at the start of a cycle could be to avoid detergent loss, but this doesn`t make sense because there is a valve in the suds container which is always closed unless the pump runs. I believe I have read somewhere this is done to avoid the squeaking sound that dry clothes can make on the door glass at the start of a cycle when loaded to full capacity. |
Post# 1050143 , Reply# 23   11/7/2019 at 06:52 (1,631 days old) by Paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)   |   | |
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My W1 started showing the waterproof error when it was less than a year old. It would reset itself after a couple of days but I’d only be able to get a load and a half done before the fault showed again and the machine would abort the cycle. It wasn’t until the second engineer visit that he discovered the dispenser housing was warped and there was a very small crack in it, causing a slow leak into the machine. The housing was replaced and no more waterproof errors have occurred.
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Post# 1050350 , Reply# 26   11/8/2019 at 19:11 (1,630 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The brown stain is rust from the steel bottom panel, If the machine had not had this silly system you would have seen this leak long ago and gotten the machine fixed, in any case there would have been no interruption of your laundry.
On a SQ FL the whole lower panel is removable with just two exposed screws and you can see what is going on easily.
Miele machines are VERY GOOD well designed and BUILT washers, But they are complex and expensive to service and to troublesome if you Really need to do a lot of laundry and only have one machine.
I like to compare them to owning a Mercedes Benz in the United States, the only difference is Miele service is also very expensive and there is almost no after market service for Miele appliances unlike owning a MB. where there are lots of shops that will fix an older MB.
Every week when I look over the appliance discard pile at the largest independent appliance seller in the DC area I see Miele washers and dryers and lots of Miele DWs that people have given up on the still look great. We have picked up a number of them over the years and had fun fixing them and learning about them, we end up giving them away to appliance friends as I would never sell one to a customer.
Any used appliance we sell to a customer we expect it to have a serviceable life of at least 10 years, hopefully without big expensive problems.
Experience from an appliance Boomer , LOL
John L. |
Post# 1050382 , Reply# 27   11/9/2019 at 06:25 (1,629 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Rust from the steel panel... Of course. I could have thought of that myself, but sometimes the most logical explanation just doesn`t occur to me. It looked like rotten detergent residue to me but couldn`t explain the color.
Still wouldn`t say the system is silly. Too many Europeans living in a multistory building in the past have had the pleasure to discover their apartment doors broken up by the fire department because of a serious water damage on several floors below. This silly system can do so much more for you than just hiding a minor leak. Just think of a burst fill hose. Not much fun at all. But then again there is a reason why appliances are designed for the needs and expectations of the market they are intended to be sold. As I understand it most American multilevel buildings rule out private washers anyways, so there`s little need for a complicated water leaking protection system. |
Post# 1050518 , Reply# 28   11/10/2019 at 12:08 (1,628 days old) by bewitched (Italy)   |   | |
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it can’t be rust. the rust is not yellow and the steel pan doesn’t catch rust in ages of leakings let alone on a new machine. i saw many miele machines years old with evident traces of leakings but no one had rust. |
Post# 1050588 , Reply# 30   11/10/2019 at 20:29 (1,628 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1050634 , Reply# 31   11/11/2019 at 07:02 (1,627 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 1051138 , Reply# 35   11/15/2019 at 13:29 (1,623 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Everyone here knows what I think the best longest lived and essayist to service FL washer is.
A Speed Queen FL washer is proven to outlast 2 or 3 of any other FL washer available for home use. If a SQ FLer does not meet your needs I would buy TWO WP-MT or even TWO LG FL washers with two good average machines you should be able to keep your laundry moving. John L. |
Post# 1051153 , Reply# 36   11/15/2019 at 15:28 (1,623 days old) by SGT10 (California )   |   | |
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I guess I won’t be in the market for a new washing machine after all. Miele has agreed to replace the machine with a new machine. Timing to be determined. |
Post# 1051161 , Reply# 37   11/15/2019 at 17:53 (1,623 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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This is good news, but also tells how difficult it is to fix this high-end stuff if the manufacturer can't even diagnose and fix their own products in a timely manor, hopefully you will have better luck with a another one.
One thing for sure Miele can well afford to replace failed machines when you consider how over priced they are. John L. |
Post# 1051164 , Reply# 38   11/15/2019 at 19:12 (1,623 days old) by SGT10 (California )   |   | |
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Yes, I do feel like kind of a chump sometimes for doubling down on Miele. |
Post# 1051165 , Reply# 39   11/15/2019 at 19:19 (1,623 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Good for you!
As along veteran of battles with Miele sometimes one simply must take a very firm line indeed. There is no reason other than poor build quality for a basically new machine to have issues like your's. Even worse is Miele's high handed response, which again sadly is often too common. After paying nearly $2k for a washing machine, to be without for nearly a month and counting is just unacceptable. Worse you never know what else will happen down the line.... No best to cut losses and start with a new machine. Let Miele palm that defective washer off on someone else. |
Post# 1051167 , Reply# 40   11/15/2019 at 19:30 (1,623 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Which have been going on for some time now. Like others they cannot find enough qualified applicants willing to go though training/apprenticeship required.
Miele USA tried teaming up with third party services like Mr. Appliance or something, with results often being less than satisfactory. Worse many of the older techs have either retired or left the company. Some became senior in house techs or other similar positions,but they too are reaching retirement age and or leaving. In any case with these people go a wealth of knowledge built up over years. The new machines are more electronically complicated but quite honestly don't have build quality of old. After spending a few thousand on an appliance, only to have it go out of order, then have to battle with Miele to get it fixed, then wait two, three, four or more weeks is why the company has issues expanding in USA. |
Post# 1051187 , Reply# 42   11/15/2019 at 22:04 (1,622 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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But not nearly enough want to do them......
Appliance repair belongs to one of many trades that young people for years have been shunning. It is one thing to be an independent repairman (or woman), but working for Miele, Kenmore or who ever is another matter. IIRC Miele techs are on the clock; they are allotted only certain amount of time based upon what was booked, then they have to move on to keep schedule. Not everyone has the temperament and people skills to do home repair work. Quite frankly over years have spoken with and had in our home some people I'd like to have whacked with a mallet. Big issue these days is less and less in terms of appliances are meant to be repaired. Sadly this seems to be affecting Miele. Any new appliance can have a run of bad luck. Indeed most consumer groups are unanimous in saying that if something is to go wrong with a new appliance, it will happen in about 18 months or so. This is why they warn people off extended warranties. As have said Miele can be rather stubborn when it comes to dealing with repair issues. Their first line response always seems to be "no, the machine cannot be doing that". If you insist that is indeed what is happening then response is "what did *YOU* do to the machine?". If it is a washing machine MieleUSA's pat response is "you must have used too much or the wrong detergent...". For reasons of their own Miele assumes all Americans are ignorant oafs or silly housewives that haven't a clue how to operate their precious bits of German engineering. Which makes you wonder why they even bother selling them in USA at all. Once leak was discovered coming from a place it shouldn't, that was time to offer a replacement. That the tech couldn't trace cause of leak on his own, requiring assistance from supervisor over telephone was another clue. This sort of thing isn't supposed to happen and that is obvious as no one at Miele had a clue. Their response was to replace water path control, and hope that was cause of leak. Maybe it would cure the issue, then again maybe not. If the latter what happens next? Another month or so without an operable washing machine? Or one that barely completes a week or so of use before that dreaded anti-flooding system is again activated. Fact that Miele still only offers a one year warranty on such expensive washers and dryers is worrying. Even SQ and LG do better IIRC. |
Post# 1051223 , Reply# 43   11/16/2019 at 08:23 (1,622 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 1051288 , Reply# 46   11/16/2019 at 20:03 (1,622 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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In many if not most school systems across USA had nothing to do with budget concerns.
No, it was rather pushed by liberal progressive democrats who believed such education was some how unfair and consigned certain students to a lower track education with a second tier life (blue collar). Goal was to push every high school student into college bound academics so they would go onto higher education after graduation. This was part and parcel of huge push of all American high school grads going onto college, this regardless if they were prepared academically or mentally. People based their efforts on declining manufacturing in USA that took hold by the 1970's and 1980's. They simply felt *all* high school graduates (this includes minorities, young women, etc...) should have the benefit of higher education which in turn would open doors. Germany of course has a strong vocational/apprenticeship scheme, and their manufacturing base is envy of world. Yes, there is "tracking", but overall system is far less cruel than stringing some "C -" high school student along into college. There he or she after attending and basically seat warming for four years graduates with same low GPA, *and* now often thousands in debt thanks to student loans. |
Post# 1053797 , Reply# 49   12/10/2019 at 07:47 (1,598 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Hello I had a little giant washer its absolutely bullet proof, I sold it to a friend who had a pub and it was used to wash all manner of articles they had a SQ top loader as well which sadly was prone to going wrong so the Miele picked up the slack and as far as I know 3 years later is still going. It was connected to a 20amp supply so the 2nd heater was reconnected which made the machine incredibly fast.
I have upgraded to a W1 and so far its been superb, Lets hope that you won't be disappointed with this new one.. I am in the throws of making my mind up and buy the new Miele heat pump dryer its £1300 which is a fair chunk of cash but should be worth it :) |
Post# 1053876 , Reply# 50   12/10/2019 at 21:01 (1,598 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )   |   | |
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Post# 1054034 , Reply# 52   12/12/2019 at 02:21 (1,596 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Chlorine bleach is never used in pre-wash, but usually first rinse after final wash cycle (often there can be one, two, or three), then followed by a few more rinses.
Reasons are first and foremost better and clearer chlorine bleaching takes place in cleaner water. Next if chlorine bleach is being used for sanitation it does better work (with less of it), with less organic matter/soil present. Finally chlorine bleach cycles aren't supposed to be very long. Chlorine bleach does all work it is going to do in five minutes or less after addition. Higher water temps means faster action. This covers stain removal, whitening, brightening and disinfection/sanitation. Marks that aren't removed in five minutes of contact time (even in cold water) and chlorine bleach likely will not be removed with increased contact time. All that does in promote damage to textiles by leaving them in contact with corrosive properties of bleach longer. This being said IIRC for Miele Little Giants one is not supposed to use chlorine bleach at all. With their powerful heating capability and still able to deliver fast cycles, any good oxygen bleach would give very good results. |
Post# 1054149 , Reply# 54   12/12/2019 at 19:17 (1,596 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )   |   | |
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No provision for bleach dispensing in the Little Giant. It’s a true European machine, so not even mentioned in the manual. On the rare occasion I use it, I run what needs bleaching on a quick wash (full dose of bleach/ small amt of neutral detergent) at 30c then follow with a full load on Cottons or cottons Hygiene at a higher temp and a powder with bleach. I like to use Clorox crystals, it makes dispensing easier. I know my process is the reverse of conventional wisdom but I also use the follow up wash to neutralise the chlorine. But quite honestly, you really don’t need chlorine in this machine.
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Post# 1054164 , Reply# 56   12/13/2019 at 05:07 (1,595 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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You could put some plain tap water into the prewash dispenser next time when you`re doing a regular cotton cycle (without prewash) and see if it gets released.
I suppose the water will still be there at the end of the cycle but then again it`s not that uncommon that washers come with different programming patterns for different markets, so who knows... Directions on German chlorine bleach bottles are usually "add to pre- or mainwash diluted in 1 liter of water". Adding bleach to the prewash is not ideal, but since the use of bleach for laundry purposes is generally considered as a very last resort before throwing clothes away and our washers don`t have room for a dedicated bleach compartment it wouldn`t surprise me if they really meant to use it in the prewash. |
Post# 1054191 , Reply# 58   12/13/2019 at 15:03 (1,595 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Generally when European laundry market speaks of bleach they are referring to oxygen/hydrogen peroxide. Across the pond in USA OTOH word nearly universally means chlorine based products.
My AEG Lavamat washers have a compartment for "stain treatment/bleach" but they mean oxygen based products. Idea is to have enzyme based detergent have a go first, then later in cycle oxygen bleach is added so not to harm enzyme activity. There are other bits, but that is general gist. Outside of perhaps healthcare (and not always even then), chlorine bleach is almost unknown in Europe for laundry purposes. Standard has always been boil washes with oxygen bleach. As washing machine market developed in Europe boiling moved from stove/range top to washers with built in heating ranging from solid fuels to gas and electricity. European housewives and others long recognized the destructive powers of "eau de Javel". As such it was used infrequently or not at all for laundry. Housecleaning is another matter. In France and elsewhere you find chlorine bleach not in laundry section at shops, but with cleaning supplies. American housewives and others stopped boiling when automatic or semi automatic washing machines came in; but used copious amounts of chlorine bleach to deal with a multitude of laundry day sins. |
Post# 1054214 , Reply# 59   12/13/2019 at 17:18 (1,595 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )   |   | |
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Heavy soil/ bleach- Mine says that too. My guess is that the part is also used on other models. It’s just a liquid detergent insert for the prewash side. It’s a straight up traditionally functioning, European machine that’s highly customisable in the settings menu. Therefore no provisions for chlorine bleach.
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Post# 1054255 , Reply# 61   12/14/2019 at 06:16 (1,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 1054261 , Reply# 62   12/14/2019 at 09:39 (1,594 days old) by Logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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As far as I know, there is a bleach dispense on/off setting somewhere in the service menu - at least on the previous generation. From what I recall, it's dispensed towards the end of the main wash. Turning the setting off shortened the main wash.
As for the general usage of LCB: Miele does not encourage the use of it. Even their Professional models advice against it unless absolutely needed. |
Post# 1054288 , Reply# 64   12/14/2019 at 14:21 (1,594 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I remember a toploader (a Bosch?) that had a designated dispenser for chlorine bleach. It was marked by a chlorine symbol.
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Post# 1054293 , Reply# 65   12/14/2019 at 16:15 (1,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Actually there used to be quite a lot of washers that had chlorine bleach dispensers additionally to boil wash cycles in Europe.
A very short wash time like only ten minutes after the target temperature has been reached was not that uncommon back then in Italian and French washers so washing at 95°C may not always have been enough for proper stain removal and whitening. There has been Thomson (see in picture #8) CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK |
Post# 1054294 , Reply# 66   12/14/2019 at 16:16 (1,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 1054295 , Reply# 67   12/14/2019 at 16:20 (1,594 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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And Candy (#6)
just to name a few Unfortunately haven`t seen the webmaster of Lamachinealaver for a long time on AW, I`m sure he could shed some light on the subject. CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK |
Post# 1054310 , Reply# 68   12/14/2019 at 19:01 (1,594 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Just got caught up with this thread.
Sorry to hear of all your trouble. I am the member in Massachusetts who has the "Dreaded" Miele 4842. I bought it in 2012. My first issue was the detergent drawer would pop open slightly at the start of the cycle. 3 drawers later, that was fine. The dealer I bought it from had their own service tech replace them. 4 months later the Main Bearing went. The Dealer Tech told me it was because I was using Persil Powder.Nice young man but I told him there is no way detergent could have caused a bearing failure. The Young man also said it was not the bearing. I told him I have been in the restaurant business as a chef and am surrounded by all sorts of machinery and I know th sound a failed bearing makes. Now, the dealer calls Miele. Miele did send a tech up to Mass. from New Jersey. They usually send the tech to this area for a week and covers all the "difficult" issues. This guy was wonderful. I think his name was Sheldon. First thing I did before he touched the machine was spin the tub by hand producing th "Grinding" sound a shot bearing will make. He looked rather shocked and then we began to talk. Hooked up his Laptop and went on diagnosing th problem. First Miele wanted to pick up my machine, take it to their shop in New Jersey, repair it then ship it back. I told them NO WAY is that machine to be repaired. I paid $1900.00 for a Washer and IT WILL BE REPLACED. I was kind to the Tech as he agreed with me. Miele was telling him bout the pick up nonsense. I said in a loud voice while Sheldon was on the phone" Well, I will call my attorney if this machine is not replaced". I was told a New Machine will be delivered in 4 days. As tis was my first Front Load, I had to experience the learning curve. Alexander from Germany was kind enough to send me the Service Manual and proceeded to go into Programmig and add "Water Plus" plus week a few things. I hope this is not the Kiss of Death, but the Machine has served me well. I never overload it and also never use Maximum Spin. I use High. I just feel this is fast enough and saves a bit on the bearing. Just my thought. Use Persil Universal Powder or Rosalie's. Bleach occasionally nd a touch of White Vinegar once a week. I never ever had any odors or moldy boot issues. I attribute it to Never washing in cold water and liquid detergents or Fabric Softener. Washes are either Hot, Very Warm or Warm. So back to the thread (Sorry about the ramble). I am Happy they replaced your machine. The Service can get one a bit "Heated" when dealing with them on the phone. Enjoy your machine and hope this one is "Immer Besser"
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Post# 1054318 , Reply# 69   12/14/2019 at 22:12 (1,593 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )   |   | |
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So it seems this insert should never be used for bleach
It would appear that neither chlorine bleach nor liquid hydrogen peroxide is especially suited for release in the prewash cycle. And chlorine should probably not be used in this machine at any time. It seems that if one wanted to use liquid hydrogen peroxide, there’s not an easy (correct) way to do it with this machine. Perhaps better off using a powdered product if oxygen bleaching is necessary. While I’ve not used H2O2 in the prewash, you certainly can. I often do a prewash with just ammonia followed by a very hot main wash with Miele ultrawhite, you could do the same with H2O2. While you can do the same with chlorine, I prefer not to. I like it rinsed before the main wash. One easy way to mix powder and liquid supplies in one load is to put powder in the drawer and the liquid in a dosing ball, mine’s silicone. There is no provision for turning bleach on or off in the menus- bleach is not discussed in the manual either. Full stop. My dispenser has the same thing on it. If you want to use bleach you’re left to figure it out on your own. That’s why I do it in a quick wash prior to the main cycle, and only very occasionally. I much prefer regular use of oxygen bleaches to maintain white. |
Post# 1054349 , Reply# 70   12/15/2019 at 15:39 (1,593 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Hydrogen peroxide will do next to nothing in a pre-wash cycle.
There is too much organic matter present on laundry for the stuff to even make a dent in germ count. Then fact cycle is short and uses cool water means whatever other benefits (stain removal, whitening, etc....) would be limited to nil. You shouldn't wash in dirty water, nor bleach if possible. Ammonia OTOH is nothing but an alkaline gas dissolved in water. It is the pH properties one is after thus adding that substance as a "break" is no different than using washing soda, sodium metasilicate, lye, caustic soda, or any of the other base substances used to raise pH of water. What you're basically doing is creating a saponifying reaction by base combining with fats/oils (found on laundry), to "break" the soil away from textiles. |
Post# 1054872 , Reply# 74   12/19/2019 at 23:52 (1,588 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele has struggled with recruiting and retaining service/installation techs, but then again so have many other appliance places. Miele's woes are greater because of obstacles needing to be overcome by their pretty much having been a niche east coast brand.
IIRC in past they had hired out installation and service for parts of California, and results were mixed to bad. So Miele brought things back in house, now it seems they're all over the place. Believe Miele closed their California tech/call center and moved things out to Utah. This could have been in reaction to various issues from wages to talent or whatever. Miele unlike say Kenmore or other well known USA appliance giants doesn't have luxury of a decades old nationwide tech/repair force. Even though Sears long has since sliced repair/service away, it still was in a better position than Miele. Then you have fact so much about Miele appliances is proprietary; parts, service manuals, etc.. at least in North America. In EU one can buy Miele spares "off the shelf" as it were any where. Now one can hunt down specific Miele repair manuals but there isn't any promise you'll find exact one needed. All this being said, welcome to the new economy. No one wants to keep service techs, installers, etc... on payrolls; so everything is either outsourced or done on contract. As myself and others have stated; if you live in northeast, in particular PA, NJ, NY, Conn, Boston, etc.... Miele service, sales and installation is slightly better thanks to home court advantage. Further west or whatever one goes things become a dice shoot. Cannot imagine paying nearly two grand for a washing machine, and far more for new heat pump dryer only to have thing break down. Kicker is having to do without said appliance for one, two, three or more weeks. |
Post# 1054888 , Reply# 76   12/20/2019 at 02:03 (1,588 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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You cannot get another Miele gas dryer "new" as it was; since after the fiasco of that huge dryer (that matched 48XX washers), Miele no longer offers them in North America for residential use. Not sure about commercial laundry appliances.
For awhile it was only electric condenser (non vented), now Miele also offers heat pump dryers as well (electric), but that is all. IIRC Miele had never built a gas dryer for domestic use previously, and had all sorts of problems with that large unit. Hence they threw in towel on both washer and dryer withdrawing both from market. |
Post# 1054892 , Reply# 77   12/20/2019 at 03:11 (1,588 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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As a matter of fact Miele has built a gas dryer for the European market, the T478G. It was their first and last attempt to sell gas dryers here, there is only a niche market for them here. A lot of people on the European continent have their washer and dryer in a bathroom. People are reluctant to install gas appliances in bathrooms due to a high number of deaths caused by carbon monoxide from water heaters that were installed in bathrooms. Here's a picture of a G478G that is for sale near me. It doesn't sell even though the price is only 50 euros.
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Post# 1054944 , Reply# 79   12/20/2019 at 18:29 (1,588 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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For most purposes dedicated "Silk" or "Woolens" cycles beat just one hand wash.
Both fabrics are ones likely to be washed but require very different treatment in terms of water temp, mechanical action, cycle length, etc.... Many other things once covered by generic hand wash cycles (curtains, lace bed/table linens, etc..), can either have dedicated cycles, or one can modify certain others to suit with some machines. In healthcare a sluice washer will have a suds container with decent sized holes to allow better draining/removal of solid matter (feces, vomit, etc...). They usually don't have door boots, drain pumps or other things were such matter can collect and be reintroduced during subsequent cycles. Sluicing via machine is meant to replace old practice for healthcare laundry, diapers, and so forth of rinsing by hand to remove solid matter before things went to the wash. Notice in video diapers are loaded into washer waste and all: Difference between a "pre-wash" or "pre-rinse" is mainly water level; former is low while latter high. For sluicing and or to promote optimal debris removal you want high water level. OTOH for stain treatment/pre-washing you want basically same water level as wash cycles. |
Post# 1054985 , Reply# 81   12/21/2019 at 01:37 (1,587 days old) by Logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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At least here, LiGis are typically installed at the laundromat.
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Post# 1054990 , Reply# 82   12/21/2019 at 03:03 (1,587 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Miele Little Giant's are in On Premise Laundry (OPL) category. That is a tier or two above residential, but an entry or lower tier commercial washer or dryer.
Capacity a bit larger (10kg),tad more robust construction and so forth; but key thing is to do lots of washing day in and out rather quickly. Nearly twice or more heating power of domestic washing machines (for most part) means Miele LGs can reach target temps faster, and thus get on with things. Robust parts and design give washer or dryer with ability to have duty cycles measured in vastly higher multiples per day than compared to domestic units on weekly basis. Case in point someone who joined several months ago whose laundry usage knackered a new Miele domestic washer in a very short period of time. IIRC they went with a Little Giant or were leaning in that direction. Closest domestic equivalent likely would be Speed Queen front loaders, those machines have never varied much from Alliance's offerings for OPL market. All this being said, Miele has long been a player in Waschsalon market. You can find their units in laundromats all over Germany, Austria and other parts of Europe. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 1054994 , Reply# 83   12/21/2019 at 03:25 (1,587 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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