Thread Number: 81298  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
The dashboard lights...
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Post# 1053063   12/3/2019 at 18:52 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

noticed recent model cars all seem to have overly bright blue glaring white LED illuminated displays and instruments-like there are 2 or 3 smartphones in the dash:can't be good for the eyes or night vision I would think...Older BMWs and mid-'80s up Pontiacs used to have red dashboard illumination to better preserve night vision and 1994 Opel SAAB 900s had a feature where just the speedo could be lighted(in green IIRC) for dark driving...

Post# 1053078 , Reply# 1   12/3/2019 at 19:22 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
OK Millennial,

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Recognizing what constitutes today's target demographic, it comes as no surprise that making dashboards look like an array of screens would be what sells.


I bought a very low mileage 2012 car about a year and a half ago because I wanted normal dashboard lighting, no touch-screen controls for anything, I didn't want headlights that blind oncoming traffic, and most of all, an engine that shut off every time I came to a stop.  I'm intentionally not putting a lot of miles on this car because I don't want to be stuck with a millennial-mobile any sooner than I have to.


A friend of mine had placed a deposit on a Model 3 Tesla.  She went to test drive one before making her commitment to buy and found that 1) A single screen in the center of the dash operates everything (inefficiently, no doubt, as with any touch screen), and 2) There is no radio -- only subscription streaming services.   She asked the Tesla rep how she was supposed to listen to baseball games while in the car and was met with a shrug.  She opted to get her deposit back.

Post# 1053086 , Reply# 2   12/3/2019 at 19:35 by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

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Musk has people to listen to baseball for him......

Post# 1053116 , Reply# 3   12/4/2019 at 02:27 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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The first thing I look for in a car with LED screens is how to turn them off at night due to the glare from them.  I am a vampire, have been working nights for almost 28 years and do not like a lot of lights in my face...didn't even before I started working nights.  I dim the dash lights down and turn off the radio screen.  Much more comfortable on my retinas which have issues anyway (central serous retinopathy).

Post# 1053119 , Reply# 4   12/4/2019 at 05:37 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I find dimming the dashboard and just using the HUD(heads up display) so much more pleasant to view...

lit enough to see, yet no glaring lights

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Post# 1053120 , Reply# 5   12/4/2019 at 05:55 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        

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When I first started reading this thread my first thought was "no disrespect but ya'll have too much time on your hands...."


But then I thought a little more about it and realize some folks spent 1 hour plus in the car going to and from work and I guess if you spend this much time in the car these things could be really annoying.


We have a 2012 and a 2019 in the garage.  What I find most annoying about our new car is not the type of lights on the dashboard but instead the fact that the damn car practically drives itself.  There are more annoying beeps when I get too close to this or don't do that.  Luckily, I work from home so most of my driving is up the street and back.  The only real advantage to having these features was we got a significant discount on our auto insurance which was a surprise to me.


BTW,  the first thing I do after I start the car is hit the button that disengages that annoying feature of turning off the car at stops.  The car has the ability to have profiles for each driver where you can set all kinds of default settings except that one.  I wish I could set it so it doesn't engage when you start the car but it's not an option.  I'm sure it must save some minuscule amount of gas but over time is it good for the starter?  I don't know, maybe it doesn't hurt it much.  Time will tell I guess.

Post# 1053123 , Reply# 6   12/4/2019 at 06:21 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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I hope my 2004 Tacoma lasts forever.

Best features...

5 Speed Manuel Transmission

Manual Controls for A/C-Heat, Headlights etc.

And most important to me... It starts with a real metal KEY.

I drive a friend's Caddy Crossover every once in a while and I hate all the nonsense.

Post# 1053126 , Reply# 7   12/4/2019 at 06:55 by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        
is it good for the starter?

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It's good for selling you a new starter and about a dozen more batteries than you'd need otherwise.


With the engine off, doesn't the aircon quit also?  9 months a year here, that would be a dealbuster and a damnable nuisance having to 'remind' the car of that every time you get in it.


I strenuously hope my 86 Celica lasts the rest of my driving life.

Post# 1053127 , Reply# 8   12/4/2019 at 07:08 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        

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We have the same issue here in Arkansas with the A/C at the stops.  Honestly, I haven't paid that much attention but I don't recall getting warm at the stops at the times I haven't shut off that feature.  Seems the air continues to run and now that I think about it, I think it switches the engine back when the car calls for A/C.


I'll have to pay attention the next time I'm in the car.  As far as having to buy more're probably right.  We're under warranty for four years and purchased the extended so hopefully I won't have to buy one on my own.

Post# 1053128 , Reply# 9   12/4/2019 at 07:27 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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My hybrid, of course, starts/stops/starts the engine under various situations.† The A/C (power steering, brakes) are electric so aren't affected.† Six+ years, no failures as yet.† Engine does need to run for heat but not continuously depending how much heat is needed.

Post# 1053137 , Reply# 10   12/4/2019 at 09:50 by Kate1 (PNW)        

My Honda Odyssey is a 2006 and the dash is all blue/white, I spend a lot of time commuting and my morning drive is always in the dark and it doesnít bother me. I do know that when it comes time to buy a new one, Iím basically getting a base model to avoid the push button ignition and other nonsense. Iím a millennial but Iím definitely not attracted to all these new features, theyíre just distracting in my opinion.

Post# 1053138 , Reply# 11   12/4/2019 at 10:11 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply#6

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Iím totally with you Eddie on this. I have a 2007 Honda Civic with just a little over 62,000 miles on it and I hope it will last forever too, and it probably will at the rate I drive now that both David and I are both retired.

I take the car in for service once a year and the year before last it needed to be in the shop for about 4 hrs. and the dealer gave me a 2017 Civic as courtesy car. OMG, that dashboard was literally loaded with crap that was totally unnecessary and distracting, especially the main board that controls the radio, heater and AC. I have always been able to make these adjustments mostly by feel, thereby still being able to pay attention to DRIVING the car! And that keyless ignition is for the birds. Give me an old fashioned key to start the car.

The car handled well and was very nice looking and comfortable, but I have no use for any of that modern technology. Soon, we will have a generation of drivers that wonít know how to drive a basic automobile, having to pay attention their surroundings because they will have become so dependent upon the car telling them what to do or doing it for them.

I guess Iíve officially become an Old Coot! In my youth I had to have a new car as often and I could manage it. Now, I plan on keeping this little Civic for the rest of my life.


Post# 1053139 , Reply# 12   12/4/2019 at 10:13 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Features to keep us safe.....

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I would be lying if I said these features haven't helped on a couple of occasions to keep me safe from myself.


However, they do take some getting used to. 

Post# 1053149 , Reply# 13   12/4/2019 at 13:56 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Reply 11

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Thanks Eddie.

Welcome to the Old Coots Club. LOL

Just thought of this... With Smartphones driving being a hazard, distraction, etc...

I would think those touch screens should fall into the same category. I mean when I drive that Caddy Crossover/under... you have to look at the screen to change the temperature, music, GPS, all the same distractions of looking at a phone.. Which also brings to mind, would you get a ticket for changing stations on your SmartPhone ? Or would they make that fall into the category of texting ?


Anyway, every time the Tacoma goes into the shop for a repair whether it be $200-1,000+ I just think to myself "It's better than a car payment".

Post# 1053153 , Reply# 14   12/4/2019 at 14:15 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Ours are dimmable

variably, and the main light switch knob has a position to disable the dimming with all exterior lights off. In automatic setting with lights on, either park/tail, driving, or full headlights, the dimming is automatic and varies with ambient and exterior brightness. Bulb light, better idea from who would think; FORD.
Son says he might get to bring one of those soon to be unveiled Electric Mustangs home and take me for a spin. Who knows, if the leases aren't to pricey in a couple or three years?

Post# 1053191 , Reply# 15   12/4/2019 at 23:50 by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra SeŮora de Los Angeles de Porciķncula)        

One more reason to love Alexa...

Post# 1053201 , Reply# 16   12/5/2019 at 05:48 by retro-man (nashua,nh - boston,ma)        

I don't understand why so many don't like keyless starting. I have had it on vehicles for over 7 years now and love it. The fob just stays in my pocket all the time. Lock, unlock the doors, plus rear hatch door opens. Push a button it starts, push same button it shuts off. How simple is that. Sort of like all of our appliances. How can it be good on one thing but ridiculous on anther. I guess people just like to whine over changes. I am trying not to be this way as I get older.


Post# 1053207 , Reply# 17   12/5/2019 at 07:08 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Voice recognition

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... you have to look at the screen to change the temperature, music, GPS, all the same distractions of looking at a phone.. Which also brings to mind, would you get a ticket for changing stations on your SmartPhone ? Or would they make that fall into the category of texting ? 


Most of the vehicles with these options also have voice recognition.  I have ours set up so I can do most things with my voice so I don't find that too distracting.  As I mentioned earlier, it takes a little time to get used to it.  I have spent some time setting up Favorites for the NAV, phone calls and radio stations, etc.   Having done that I don't have to take my hand off the wheel much.  I press a button on the steering wheel and say what I need.   I'm 65 so I fall into the category of those who could be someone who doesn't want to change.  I decided a few years back that I could be stubborn and not change but that doesn't slow down change around me.  I'm the one who would lose out while the world zips on by me.


I can open the garage with my voice and park the car (I think).  I haven't figured those out yet.  When we went through our orientation they told us we could do these things and demo'd them but I'm not quite there yet.  They are on my list.


Post# 1053212 , Reply# 18   12/5/2019 at 07:48 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
@ Chach

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I get that Chach.

But for those of us who do not have the latest technology in our vehicles as in my '04 Tacoma, I run Pandora via Bluetooth in my truck. So, when I want to change the station, I need to look at the phone.

Just wondering about if the police saw that, what would happen. I guess I will just be cautious as always and look around to see if there are any police around when Ineed to change the music.

Post# 1053213 , Reply# 19   12/5/2019 at 08:06 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        

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I don't know if it's against the law or not here in Arkansas like it is in other states but obviously it is frowned upon I just don't think they can ticket you.  I could be wrong though. 


I have my phone set up so when I'm driving it puts up a message for texts that Im driving and I will respond later.  Generally, I try not to pick up the phone while I'm in the car to even look like I'm talking or texting.  


When I travel to PA and NJ for work I try to be mindful that it is against the law so that I'm not seen doing anything that looks like talking or texting.  Whether or not they would ticket you for looking at that screen is a really good question.  I suspect they would classify that as distracted driving just like they would if you were looking at your phone. 

Post# 1053224 , Reply# 20   12/5/2019 at 10:21 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I like keyless starting,

but I am still often forgetting the fob when I leave it in the house.

Post# 1053225 , Reply# 21   12/5/2019 at 10:47 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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I don't have any complaint about the brightness or quality of the dash/instrument lighting of any modern car I have been in. There are some designed better than others of course but I find it all works.

The BIG problem was when they decided to illuminate the dash anytime the car was running vs just when the lights were on. This has lead to a large amount of people 'ghost' driving at night forgetting to turn their damn lights on...

Were I King, the exterior lights on a vehicle would never be off when the engine is running, but that is a rant for another day.

Post# 1053229 , Reply# 22   12/5/2019 at 12:23 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Funny Keyfob Story

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I have a funny keyless fob story.


A few weeks ago I was in PA on business.  My rental had a keyless fob.  I was there for two weeks so I got used to it in my bag,  jumping in the car and heading where I was going.


It was about 4AM and I was getting in the car to head back to the airport.  I walked up to the car, pressed the handle on the trunk and it opened.  In went my luggage.  I walked up to the driver side door and opened it the way I always do.  It didn't make the normal unlock noise.  It just opened.  I didn't really think anything of it.  As I sat down, I noticed some halls drops in the console that I didn't remember putting there.  Still clueless, I started pressing the button to start the car and nothing would happen.  I couldn't figure out what was going on and I was getting nervous because I hadn’t allowed myself a lot of extra time.


As I got out of the car wondering what my next move was, I noticed there was a car two cars down that was identical to mine right down to the color and hubcaps.  I had gotten into the wrong car because the person hadn’t locked it.  


I had to schlep all my luggage to the other car and off I went.  Had I been using a real key I would have known as soon as I tried to open the trunk.  So, I’m not sure if this is an endorsement to use or not use the keyless fobs.  Hubby and I got a good laugh over it and I made my flight in time.

Post# 1053238 , Reply# 23   12/5/2019 at 15:53 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

I just recently went car shopping and negotiated a deal for my mom on a 2020 Subaru Outback after she totaled her 2015 Hyundai Sonata, and it has all the Eyesight features. I've driven it a few times so far and find that they are gonna take some getting used to. The only one I actually want for myself is the Adaptive Cruise Control, this feature just in the few times I've driven the car has saved me from frustration of driving behind lines of cars that can't decide what speed they want to go. It also has lane keep assist, lane follow, forward collision alert/emergency braking. 


The lane keep assist seems like it would come in handy sometimes, the lane follow (which can only be activated when adaptive cruise is on) seems to work good sometimes and other times has the car swerving like a drunk within the lines.


The forward collision alert actively deters aggressive driving and quick lane changes so you gotta watch out for that if you're used to driving in high traffic metros. It will beep at you then let up off the gas if you're trying to change lanes quickly, and eventually apply the brakes. 


All the features are nice to have, I guess, however I would only ever tolerate them as long as I can turn them off, which I can in the Subaru. I still want to be able to just drive without the car constantly intervening. 


It also has the auto start/stop, which I'm not really a fan of, but I've kept it on out of curiosity. Luckily that is also able to be turned off. 



Back to the original topic, I find myself dimming the dash lights on modern cars to about half brightness cuz it's just too much glare at night. Never used to do that on older cars. 

Post# 1053239 , Reply# 24   12/5/2019 at 16:14 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor)        

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I figured someone would mention Meatloafs "Paradise by the dash board lights"

Post# 1053240 , Reply# 25   12/5/2019 at 16:16 by JustJunque (Western MA)        

I've been driving a 2001 VW Passat for a few years now, that was a freebie from a family member who was buying a new vehicle.
The dash lights are one of my favorite things about it.
They have sort of a blue backlight, and the numbers and stuff light up red.
It makes for great contrast without being too bright.
This past summer, I just drove my 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix for the first time in 19 years.
The couple of times that I drove it at night, I was surprised by how dim the dash lights seemed.
Maybe they have dimmed with age, but they may have always been this way.
The gauge faces are black, and small bulbs around the edges just highlight the white numbers and the orange needles.


Post# 1053250 , Reply# 26   12/5/2019 at 17:22 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

My old Malibu had fairly subdued lighting and green LCD display. My Taurus I have now has 3 color screens and the white lighted control buttons. The guage cluster is silver and blue.

I quite like the lighting and it doesn't bother me much. I did change the radio screen from black on white (daytime) to black on white (night time) and leave it there all the time. It's supposed to change automatically at dark but it doesn't. I prefer the black background anyway since the interior in my car is dark gray.

I just found recently I can turn off the radio display completely if I wanted to.

RE: adaptive cruise, etc. My car came with all of that: adaptive cruise, parallel parking, forward collision warning, backup sensors, lane keep assist and blind spot monitoring.

I don't care for the adaptive cruise and I've never used the parallel parking, but I really do like the backup sensors since they really help when backing up and not being able to see oncoming traffic. Can't be totally relied on of course, but they really do help. I also really like the backup camera, and can't imagine not driving a car with one again.

My car however, will not automatically brake if a pedestrian or car is in front. Going by how some of the cars are having issues with braking for no reason, it might be a good thing.

Post# 1053254 , Reply# 27   12/5/2019 at 17:43 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply#23

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The forward collision alert actively deters aggressive driving and quick lane changes so you gotta watch out for that if you're used to driving in high traffic metros. It will beep at you then let up off the gas if you're trying to change lanes quickly, and eventually apply the brakes.

Oh Hell to the No! I think this feature would be fine for a self driving car, but I sure as hell donít want some on board computer second guessing my maneuvers while Iím trying to negotiate my car in heavy traffic. To have the car put on the brakes while a driver is trying to get out of a dangerous situation that requires split second judgement could be disastrous.

Iím all for changes that are beneficial and make good sense. But frankly, every driver should be able to have complete control over their vehicle at all times and be paying close attention to the task at hand, DRIVING, and not by texting, talking on the phone, monkeying around with a touch screen to change the radio, heater or A/C, or looking at a navigation system. If you donít know where you are going, look up the directions BEFORE you leave on your errand/trip, or pull over to the side of the road and consult the navi system.

Part of being a good, defensive driver is using good common sense and paying attention to driving, not technology.

If this makes me a ďwhinerĒ and and ďold cootĒ that doesnít move with the times then so be it.

Rant over.


Post# 1053258 , Reply# 28   12/5/2019 at 18:28 by bradfordwhite (space coast)        
Toyota Tacoma

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Yes toploader, your tacoma 5 speed will probably outlive you.

The more I hear about the newer cars and the maintenance nightmares.....
the ridiculous cost of parts and the evaporating market of service personel, I'm happy I have a cheap, 2014 5 speed car with crank windows, no cruise, incandescent lamps, no power locks, no touch screen anything.
In fact.... to start it you need to turn the crank that sticks out of the grille.

OK, I'd like cruise, but can order after market.
I can honestly say I've never even turned on the radio. I don't even know if it has a CD player or an input jack. lol.

I can't wait to get a fully electric car. teeheehee. cool

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Post# 1053275 , Reply# 29   12/5/2019 at 20:25 by countryford (Phoenix, AZ)        

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I have a 2016 Dodge Durango. It has some of the features listed here. I don't mind the lights on the dashboard. I don't think they are that bright. The radio screen though is a different story. That is bright and there is no way to shut it off. You can shut the screen off to it, but it just puts up a black screen that is lit. Makes no sense. There is also no way to shut the radio off on it. You either have to turn the volume all the way down or press the mute button. Even if you turn the screen off, the radio will still play.
I believe on the newer Durangos, they have corrected both of those issues. Another thing that the newer Durangos have, is the ability to turn on the backup camera at any time. On mine, you have to put the vehicle in reverse for the backup camera to turn on.
The on/off feature that will shut the car off, while at a red light is an ok feature. There are times where I don't mind it and then other times where I wish I didn't have it. It is supposed to have a delay before it shuts off. So once you come to a complete stop, it isn't supposed to shut the engine off until like 5 seconds or so. However I've noticed that mine sometimes will and sometimes won't. I'll come to a stop sign and see that I can just stop and go, since no vehicles are coming. So I come to the complete stop, let off the brake and then the engine shuts off and then will start back up again. I wasn't even stopped for 5 seconds, yet it shuts off and then it does it after I have already let off the brake. Then there are other times where I will be at a stop light and I'll have my foot on the brake and it won't even shut off for 10+ seconds.
In regards to the comments about the a/c working when the engine shuts off. If the engine is under a heave load, such as the a/c is on full blast, the engine won't shut off. So it is 100+ degrees outside, you get into the car and it is of course much hotter inside. The a/c is on full blast. You come to a stop light, the engine won't shut off, since it is trying to get the car up to a comfortable temperature. If you have been in your vehicle for a while and the temperature is down to a tolerable degree and you stop at a stop light, the engine will shut off, the a/c will continue to run, just not at full capacity. If the a/c needs to come back to full power, the engine will automatically start up again, so the a/c can continue to run. I'm only basing this on my Durango though, so I can't say how other manufactures work.
I was told that some of the Chevy cars do not have the button to shut the stop/start feature and that you just have to deal with it. I do enjoy having the button to shut mine off though, when I want to.

I don't have the adaptive cruise control, but have driven a vehicle with it. I really didn't care for it. It seemed to slow down way to soon, when approaching a vehicle. And no I don't tailgate.

I do have a key fob on my Durango and it is nice to not have to use a key to unlock it all the time. I just go up to the car, put my hand in the handle, as long as I have the fob, the car will unlock. You can do this from either of the front doors and even the rear hatch. The hatch is powered and will lift or lower with the press of a button. My husband likes that, so he doesn't have to worry about lifting the hatch. He has a bad back and it could cause a strain on his back if he had to.
When I go to leave for the day, I just grab the fob and put it in my pocket. I get it, push the button to start it and leave. When I get to where ever I am going, I just shut the engine off, get out and push the lock button. At the end of the day, when I get home, the key fob goes back on the key hook near the back door.
The only problem with this, is I've found myself leaving the keys in the ignition on my 1989 Thunderbird and then getting out, locking the doors. Luckily it has the keypad on the door, so I can just unlock it to get back in and get the keys. Most of the time, I realize it before I leave. One time I didn't realize it until I got back to the car.

When I first got the Durango, I would get someplace and put the car in park. With my foot on the brake pedal, I would push the button to shut the car off. I'd get out, lock the door, and leave. When I return, the car would be running. It took me a while to realize that by me keeping my foot on the brake pedal, while shutting it off, it would just restart. Because to start it, you have to press down on the brake pedal. I now just let up off the brake pedal after I put it in park.

Another thing the Durango has is the shifter knob. I'm not a big fan of it though. I've seen the memes about turning the radio up and accidentally turning the shifter knob and throwing the car into park or reverse. It doesn't actually work like that. If you turn the knob, while it is in motion, it will just give an error on the dash board that says you can't do that. I don't recall if it stays in drive or goes into neutral.

Sorry for the long reply.

Post# 1053592 , Reply# 30   12/8/2019 at 14:01 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
"coolest"dashboard lighting... the electroluminescent lighting used on certain 1960s Chrysler products:1960-63 fullsize and 1966 charger,possibly some other models too-A little transistor driven inverter providing the ~90 volts AC to excite the phosphor coating for the nice blue-green glow also seen on some clock and telephone dials- mostly around the 1959-72 era :)

Post# 1053695 , Reply# 31   12/9/2019 at 15:14 by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
gotta love Scotty...

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good ol' Buffalo NY boy, and he knows whereof he speaks! he drives ancient Toyotas himself.

I'm fond of the orange lighting on our 2 Xterras, and the fact that everything in analog/knob controlled, no touchscreen, only the radio has digital display, and there's no drive, brake, or steer "by wire". If they still made them that way I'd buy another.

As to all the auto-pilot, self-driving, and computerized driving features on new cars, you can keep it, I'll stay in control and let the "world whiz on by" perfectly happily, thank you! I know someone who paid over $700 for a new keyless ignition "key"... no thank you!

Post# 1053903 , Reply# 32   12/11/2019 at 03:26 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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Everything that I remember, Ford, Chrysler, American Motors used to glow green...

General Motors glowed in regular yellowish, except for Pontiac, using orange, but now it glows in a sort of blue...

Not too familiar with foreign, maybe theyíd glowed green or some in neutral, as well...

I miss under dash courtesy lights, even small, cheap compact and sometimes subcompact had them, but now you have to buy up pretty big, and to me, other than additional cargo space, see no need toómy Jeep Compass has adequate passenger room, as the lease payments are easier than a Cherokee or Grand...

ó Dave

Post# 1054414 , Reply# 33   12/16/2019 at 03:29 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I was driving home from Nashville tonight and encountered a ghost driver in a BLACK (of all colors) Ford Fusion driving on I65.  From behind it looked like the inside of the car was glowing because the dash lights were still in daylight headlights only DRL led's which are pretty bright, no taillights, and to top it all off he was yacking on the darn phone!  It's in my dashcam.

This post was last edited 12/16/2019 at 04:07
Post# 1054417 , Reply# 34   12/16/2019 at 04:06 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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I sometimes turn my headlights off, then on to alert a driver that his/hers are not on...

-- Dave

Post# 1054418 , Reply# 35   12/16/2019 at 04:07 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I do the same thing Dave

Post# 1054420 , Reply# 36   12/16/2019 at 04:13 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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well, odd story....going back to the days of keys.....1985 Dodge Daytona, went in to the dealer for warranty service on the tires.....the mechanic came out and got me, inquiring if I could show him which tire was having the problem....apparently rear driver side was not a good description....

anywho.....we walked out into the service bay....and stopped at this car....with a blank look on my face, I asked "where's my car?"......he said isn't this one yours....NO, this one is Black, mine is Silver.....

apparently my key unlocked several cars on the lot......

good to know, I'll be back after


I guess my biggest issue with the keyless fob and push button force of habit, without looking, I could insert a key and start the there was this reminder to grab your keys....

at least on the Prius, they had a slot on the dashboard you slid the fob into.....not a bad transition for most.....

if all cars were push button, may not be a big deal, but when you have to switch back and plays a trick on your brain...

also had a rental with the turn knob shifter....WTH is that!....all the more reason to take your eyes off the least with the traditional lever shift, whether on the column or know what gear your placing the vehicle from touch...

same thing with have to look down at times to see what gear your in.....with a manual shift, I know by placement of what gear I'm in without looking....

I like knowing how to operate my Jeep without fumbling and searching for controls.....I can operate everything without taking my eyes off the road...

Post# 1054425 , Reply# 37   12/16/2019 at 05:46 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
Just talked to a friend of mine that bought a 2019 Camry a few months ago.

Touch Screen is giving her all sorts of problems. But here is the real kicker...

It has Lane Assist and that Auto Braking feature. She was trying to avoid a car drifting into her lane so she went to swerve and accelerate and the car pulled her back into the lane she was trying to get out of then would not allow her to accelerate. Escaping a collision by the Grace of God (or who ever you want to think helped her)
She drove the car back to the dealership and had them disconnect all that crap. The sales person without missing a beat said "Absolutely we'll do it right now".

So I guess all this safety crap is not all what it's cracked up to be. Sometimes technology cannot (in some cases)be used against Human Judgement.

Post# 1054441 , Reply# 38   12/16/2019 at 10:20 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply #37

ea56's profile picture
Eddie, this is exactly the scenario I had in mind when I posted my reply #27. What crazy programer thought that this would be a good idea? With the way people drive today and the increased traffic just about everywhere a driver had better be able to make split second decisions and maneuvers to avoid a potential collision with no second guessing by ďAlexaĒ, or whoever. No on board computer can possibly be programmed for each of these individual hazardous situations.

The salesman that sold her the car did the right thing by disconnecting the system ASAP upon your friends request. I would suggest that car salespeople everywhere should go one step further and ask every buyer BEFORE they drive off the lot in their new car if they want the system disabled, after thoroughly explaining the pros and cons of this device. When my Mom bought a new Maytag Wringer in 1969 the salesman asked if she wanted that stupid safety pedal for the wringer disabled before he delivered the machine, and she opted to have him do so.


Post# 1054450 , Reply# 39   12/16/2019 at 12:18 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

>> Eddie, this is exactly the scenario I had in mind when I posted my reply #27. What crazy programer thought
>> that this would be a good idea? With the way people drive today and the increased traffic just about
>> everywhere a driver had better be able to make split second decisions and maneuvers to avoid a potential
>> collision with no second guessing by ďAlexaĒ, or whoever. No on board computer can possibly be programmed
>> for each of these individual hazardous situations.

The logic behind the driving assist features in cars today is based much more on simple statistics than on instantaneous situation evaluation and all of the sensors, trajectories, and fallible decision making calculations that that entails.

In the case presented in post #37 for example, the problem might have never occurred at all had the offending car ALSO had lane-departure assistance. And given the modern distracted driver's propensity for lane wandering, it's a rather safe conclusion that features such as lane departure and automatic emergency braking are going to prevent a lot more injuries/deaths than they cause - even if the number of accidents they cause or contribute to is non-zero.

Post# 1054464 , Reply# 40   12/16/2019 at 15:09 by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Toyota Safety Sense and Honda Sensing

We have a 2019 Honda CRV with Honda Sensing and Blind spot monitor. We really like both of these features (Honda Sensing includes Automatic Breaking) but have the lane keeping turned off. Bob's Mom has a Toyota Rav4 with Toyota Safety Sense and she loves that also. Her car also has blind spot monitor. I think Automatic Breaking and Blind spot monitor are almost a necessity and I will not buy a car without both. Personally I would not use the lane keeping or the advanced cruise controls which both cars do have. Consumer reports recommends both of these features and mentions them in its reviews. Many manufacturers charge more or force you into buying a more expensive trim level to obtain some of these features. Toyota has the most vehicles with Safety Sense as standard. Blind spot monitor is an option. I really dislike Ford with the F150 as you need to buy at least the XLT and then add $590 for blind spot but to add it you must add a $2000 option package. We drive a lot on Highway 80 up to Nevada and have never had a problem. I think you would have to get really close to a car in passing to activate the Automatic Breaking. It will alert you before breaking.

Post# 1054493 , Reply# 41   12/16/2019 at 18:14 by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

Most safety features start out as luxury car features or in high trim levels of other makes and models and then trickle down to become standard features.

Can remember when ABS brakes were an option, and more recently backup sensors and cameras on luxury cars and TOL trim levels. As of a few years ago all cars in US have to include backup camera as standard equipment. Same with driver airbag, then passenger airbag and curtain airbags.

Expect many of these other new safety features to become standard as time goes on also.

I don't have automatic braking on my car and don't think I'd want it. I do have adaptive cruise but rarely use it unless I'm on open road. Don't want to rely on it to slow car down if one gets in front of me. Plus when changing lanes to a lane with no cars it accelerates harder than necessary to get to set speed, IMO.

Do have collision warning though. Has gone off a couple of times, mostly when doing 60-65 on highway and vehicle makes U turn in front of me across 3 lanes. Maybe gone off 3 times in the almost year I have had the car.

Post# 1054535 , Reply# 42   12/17/2019 at 06:38 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Even 20 years ago, I bought my 99 Olds Alero with my new college grad discount.  It was the first car I'd owned with traction control.  Leaving my house, I have to take a loop around in order to cross the median and go the other direction.  That pavement used to be quite uneven.  The car's traction control would pick it as a skid and reduce my engine power.  That intersection required one to 'get down on it' when pulling out.  From that point on I'd disable it before I had to get down on it  so I'd have all my ponies available to me.

Post# 1054564 , Reply# 43   12/17/2019 at 13:54 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

did your Alero have a "traction control switch"? I didn't know GM ever equipped the 4T40e nor 4T45e transaxles with one. They had a unique feature not found on the 4T60 and 4T65's though. Selecting 2nd, or low rather than drive on the shift lever actually started the car from a stop in second gear for better traction.

Post# 1054583 , Reply# 44   12/17/2019 at 16:11 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        

ea56's profile picture
I just saw a report by AAA today on the noon news that finds drivers of new cars with these computer devices for lane control, automatic braking and touch screens have a greater incidence of serious accidents due to being either distracted or just plain non attentive to the task at hand, DRIVING. They interviewed drivers that had witnessed drivers of cars with these devices actually asleep at the wheel!

Technology needs to be used in a responsible way and relying on an onboard computer to keep you safe without paying attention is a recipe for disaster.

Iím all for change and technology if it makes sense, and really makes life better. But change and technology just for the sake of proving that something can be automated isnít always to our best advantage.


Post# 1054586 , Reply# 45   12/17/2019 at 16:38 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

It didn't take me long to realize that having those features actually promotes lazy/distracted driving. I even turned on the adaptive cruise and lane follow and pulled out my phone just to demonstrate how easy it is to lose track of what's happening on the road. I also found myself losing my rhythm driving in traffic on the expressway when using the ACC cuz not only am I trying to maneuver around others but I'm fighting with the cars will as well. In Chicago you have to be very alert, on the ball, and assertive when driving on the expressways. 


From now on I'm gonna go back to driving myself, and save the adaptive cruise control for when traffic is at a mundane crawl. I could see the features being more useful for LA Freeway traffic. 

Post# 1054587 , Reply# 46   12/17/2019 at 16:40 by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
All this technology

chachp's profile picture

We use some of this technology when we drive but the one thing I think many of us would agree on is that these tools should be an assist only and not left to their own devices (no pun intended). †I have never experienced a situation where the car took over and ignored what I was doing. †Instead when I've tried to avoid someone or something like that the car does what I want it to do.††

I still can't take my hands off the wheel though. †I just can't do it. †I tried on an open highway one day just to see what it was like and it was more stressful to me wondering if something would blip and send me careening me off the road. †I really don't know how the lane assist works. †The steering wheel moved to keep me in that lane but the road I was on had no line on the right hand side of the road so I have no clue how it does it. †It's just scary to me. †I've been driving for 50 years with my hands on the wheel.

I like the adaptive cruise control though and in my car when you switch lanes to an open lane mine doesn't gun, it slowly increases speed.

I find it hard to believe that in some cars you can't turn these features off but I guess some might be made that way. †Just remember, if you use them, use them responsibly.

This post was last edited 12/17/2019 at 17:03
Post# 1054593 , Reply# 47   12/17/2019 at 17:15 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

In the Outback it will give a loud beep and a red warning pops up on the driver info display when the lane follow loses the lane... If it loses it in the middle of a curve you will have to grab the wheel right away. There is a reason why they want you to keep your hands on the wheel even when using it... 

Post# 1054594 , Reply# 48   12/17/2019 at 17:18 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

Add me to the list of people leery of some of the new features.


That story above about the battle with a car's safety systems while trying to avoid a collision made me wonder something. What happens if something really goes wrong in some lane feature or auto speed feature, and actively causes a collision? It seems almost inevitable--if it hasn't happened already. The computer gets drunk on its own power, say, and decides that that the neighboring lane, holding a really big semi, is where the car is supposed to be... (And, of course, the driver of this car with all these features will be held at fault, and will be the one to suffer with higher insurance premiums. Of course, he or she could sue the car maker--but whether that's successful is another question.)


Past this, I'm cheap, and I hate features because they add to the purchase price. And it's just one more thing to break and need repair. And I suspect that it also means a more limited service life for the car. When all that stuff starts breaking, it won't be financially viable to keep the car running. Some brands could make a car once that would run 20 years and well over 200K miles and still be going strong. That same brand's car of today probably won't do that.

Post# 1054595 , Reply# 49   12/17/2019 at 17:23 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

Interestingly, I know someone who recently bought a new car. His old car was still running fine, but he was sold on the idea of new safety features. It will be interesting to learn in a few months, once the novelty has worn off, if he still finds those features made it worth buying this new car.



Post# 1054597 , Reply# 50   12/17/2019 at 17:30 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture

I'm also cynical about those no-key systems. Yet another thing to break. And also I've heard the horror stories of how much it costs to replace a lost key unit.


I also remember one horror story on a video talking about the Prius which mentioned one real problem with electronic keys and auto start/stop features. (The link leads to this specific comment only runs a minute or two telling the story)


Post# 1054599 , Reply# 51   12/17/2019 at 17:41 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
I am not sorry in posting this, but all this technology, Alexa, and all the Horse Puckey that goes along with this nonsense is ruining younger generation's Brains and reflexes. Can you imagine what driving school is like with back up screens and sensors ? This to me is total crap. I had to take my driver's test on a Three speed on a column as you would never know when you had to drive standard.
Yes, times have changed but it is a hoot when I take my truck for service and a young man gets behind the wheel, then get out, and I watch another tech drive my truck in as hardly anyone younger knows how to drive a standard transmission. And use hand signals out of the windows for right, left and stopping. Yeah, Yeah, that was 50 years ago... but still... it relates to technology failing.

I am 64 and can't believe what all this unnecessary crap is doing to the world. Yes, some of this is great. But when it comes to dumbing down daily chores and sharpening , honing, and just plain keeping your memory sharp, this really grinds my gears.

Maybe some of you like this where you can talk to a cylinder and request your wishes etc. But I truly believe they are recording your personal information and other things.

If you cannot remember things in your brain or without writing them on a pad, then I believe it will soften you're other senses.

What will happen when Alexa dies ??? Or the internet craps out ? What will the younger people do when they depend on their reminders after endless hours of video games ?

Sorry this should be an another thread I suppose

I have a smart phone and use it with reminders, but I will also use my senses that I had before this technology.

Post# 1054602 , Reply# 52   12/17/2019 at 18:20 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: reply#51

ea56's profile picture
Yes, yes, yes and yes Eddie! Your comments could have come straight out of my mouth. Iím a bit older than you, Iíll be 69 in Feb. When I got my DL 52 years ago I had to demonstrate hand and arm signals, and my parents trained me to use them in heavy traffic, as to be sure that other drivers knew what you were about to do, without question. I havenít used hand and arm turn signals for a few years, but I still will roll down the window if Iím stuck in stop and go traffic and use the hand signal for stop, I donít want to get rear ended.

And when I learned to drive, just like you, we all learned to drive stick, because you never knew when youíd have to drive a standard trans. car. And now that Iím older, and have a perpetually stiff neck, I could appreciate a backup camera, but no one should always depend upon this.

Iím totally with you that with all this automation we are creating a generation that is losing critical brain and manual coordination skills. Iím an example even in my advanced years of losing some of these skills. Since I so seldom really sit down and write in longhand, the once nice cursive handwriting I used to have has turned into a scrawl. And Iíve never been a very good speller in the first place, I used to always have a dictionary at hand, now with auto spell check Iíve become lazy. But I do love the convenience of writing on a device, much faster and easier. So even this old dude succumbs to some modern technology.

But I still believe strongly that its very important to be able to use my hand and brain knowledge and skills as much as possible. Being too dependent on tech makes you lose vital skills, that you may need some day if and when tech isnít available for whatever reason. And I defiantly donít want or need an Alexa in my life. Just one more avenue for my personal information to be possibly used in a way that I may not want. I can dial the phone, make a list, change the channel or whatever just fine on my own.

Use it or lose it.


This post was last edited 12/17/2019 at 18:37
Post# 1054603 , Reply# 53   12/17/2019 at 18:28 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
Thank You Eddie.

I appreciate your thoughts.

And remember... "Two "Eds" are better than one". ; )

Post# 1054604 , Reply# 54   12/17/2019 at 18:38 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
"hacking" hazards too

apparently,some recent cars can have their control systems hacked and be operated remotely...I think Jeep had a model that could be remotely driven...Also household"security"/child survaillence cameras can be hacked and operated remotely...

Post# 1054610 , Reply# 55   12/17/2019 at 20:21 by Washerlover (Lake County, California: Wines With Altitude)        

washerlover's profile picture

I finally had to break down and buy a new car last month:  2016 BMW 328i with 25K miles on it.  It, too, has that annoying feature that shuts the engine off when idling more than 20 seconds or so, but thankfully has a “sport” driving feature that I can switch over so I don’t have to deal with it.  Of course it has a huge computer screen on the dash and I have yet to figure out what it all does and really don’t care.  It’s a fun car to drive, but thank God I still have my trusty 2003 Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner truck that is much simpler to operate!

Post# 1054613 , Reply# 56   12/17/2019 at 22:00 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Mike, my Alero had a "traction off" button on the console behind the gear shift by the parking brake (little oval button)

Post# 1054627 , Reply# 57   12/18/2019 at 00:20 by bradfordwhite (space coast)        
It's for real happening

bradfordwhite's profile picture

Tesla's can park themselves and at the push of a button when you come out of building, the car will return to the pick you up.


This in addition to literally driving the car without need of a human.


I'm all for it and until the time comes I get one, I'm going to keep things simple with my affordable, used, manual nissan.


I'm not even sure what color my dash lights are.  I don't usually drive at night.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK

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Post# 1054628 , Reply# 58   12/18/2019 at 00:31 by bradfordwhite (space coast)        
It's happening

bradfordwhite's profile picture

I wouldn't want to be in the long range driving field.  

Come to think of it, does anyone really want to be a semi truck driver?

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Post# 1054649 , Reply# 59   12/18/2019 at 07:42 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

No thanks! 

We currently have a 2019 Ford Fusion for a rental car while one of ours is in the shop and it's bad enough with the start/stop (that can be turned off) and the lane keeping assist.  Annoying.

Post# 1054666 , Reply# 60   12/18/2019 at 11:34 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 1054667 , Reply# 61   12/18/2019 at 13:16 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
both those Buicks ...

...have really nice dashes :) Is that a Delco Bose in that Riv ?-that is a really good radio as long as the solder joints are intact-I have about the same radio in my z28,hooked to custom amplified system.

Post# 1054731 , Reply# 62   12/19/2019 at 01:33 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
Keyless Startvand Go:

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
I dislike the idea of driving with my keys in my pocket, I need a place to out them...

A rented Nissan had some slot to stick the fob it, and it seemed its push button start wouldnít go on without it there...

So, I resign myself to using the console or at least the cup holder to out my key or keys into, just have to remember it/theyíre there...

ó Dave

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