Thread Number: 81321  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Choosing an energy star washer 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1053441   12/7/2019 at 14:47 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

My first post. I live in Southern Ontario and have the opportunity to take advantage of a government rebate program on the purchase of an eco, or energy star washer. I have a 21 year old Whirlpool DD that still works, sort of and if needs be I will replace this old workhorse. Only problem is the new machine must be energy star rated to take advantage of the 25% rebate, applied at purchase, in the store. This eliminates any agitator washers of any brand. What make and model would be a good choice? The link below is the offerings from one of the larger stores within range. The red price is the cost. The green price is after the rebate. All prices are in Cdn. dollars.

www.canadianappliance.ca/...




Post# 1053445 , Reply# 1   12/7/2019 at 15:30 (1,746 days old) by MaytagNeptune (FireAlarmTechGuy4444 on YouTube. Interlochen MI)        
LG Front loader

 maytagneptune's profile picture
LG is one of the best products that's energy star rated. The WM3900 is the best. If you cannot afford it you can also get the WM3500.

Post# 1053447 , Reply# 2   12/7/2019 at 15:47 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        
LG3900

 The LG 3900 is not available in Canada. The LG3800 is. This is not unusual. Many models sold here are given different numbers than the American versions. Could it be this model.

www.lg.com/ca_en/washing-...

Post# 1053448 , Reply# 3   12/7/2019 at 15:50 (1,746 days old) by easy (Boston, Mass)        
LG front loader

 I have had the 3500 washer for a year now and am extremely pleased with it. It holds more laundry than your direct drive top loader and is more gentle with it.

You can see Lorain Furniture's review of it on Youtube.

Post# 1053450 , Reply# 4   12/7/2019 at 15:57 (1,746 days old) by whatsername (Denver, CO)        

whatsername's profile picture
Another vote for the LG. I have the WM3575 which has turbo wash but no heater. I am satisfied in every way with it. When I sell this house I’ll probably leave it so that I can get the same one but with the heater, just for fun.

Post# 1053455 , Reply# 5   12/7/2019 at 17:11 (1,746 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I noticed the 3900 wasn't avaiolable.  the only difference between the 3800 & 3900 is the TurboWash 360.  I'd go with the 3800.  
Post# 1053460 , Reply# 6   12/7/2019 at 17:21 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

The LG 3800 and 3500 look promising. LG seems to review well. The only question I have is the longevity of LG and other brands today. This unknown unknown is a concern.

Post# 1053461 , Reply# 7   12/7/2019 at 17:36 (1,746 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

The 3500 doesn't have an onboard heater.  I wouldn't recommend a front loader without one.  
Post# 1053467 , Reply# 8   12/7/2019 at 18:40 (1,746 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I watched Kirk's

mark_wpduet's profile picture
videos of the new whirlpool model with recirculation. After watching that and wathing the LG with turbowash, I'd definitely get LG with turbowash and heat. The whirlpool wasn't horrible.....but it just looked adequate to me. he washed some sort of pillow on bulky.......BULKY!!! And the water level was so low I couldn't believe it. But the recirculation made up for it.

Post# 1053482 , Reply# 9   12/7/2019 at 21:16 (1,746 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
it has always seemed the higher the EER or Energy Rating, the poorer the machine....by mainly the water usage....

we used to have a Tier Rating....1, 2, or 3.....3 being the best at energy savings, and the highest at Rebates....

yet 1 was your better choice if you wanted clean clothes washed in good amounts of water and at higher temps....

efficient machines are not economical if their not effective at doing their job...

Post# 1053494 , Reply# 10   12/7/2019 at 23:52 (1,746 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Martin, extrapolating that logic, LG's and Whirlpool's 4.5 cu. ft. washer are rated at 105 kwh/year.  for the 5.0+ cu. ft. washers, LG's 5.2 cu. ft. washer is rated at 120 kwh/year and Whirlpool's 5.0 cu. ft. washer is rated at 141 kwh/year.  I'll take the one with higher kwh because that means the onboard heater is used more for maintaining and raising water temps by design.   
Post# 1053572 , Reply# 11   12/8/2019 at 09:24 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        
LG 3500

 I did a bit of research on the LG 3500 and watched this video put up by a Kirk Rivas. At the 19.22 mark of a light load fast wash the sheets were removed. Parts of the sheets were still dry. They did not appear to have been washed at all. This would be my preferred setting. I'm not a dirty guy. This seems to be a problem with low water usage machines. Any comments would be appreciated.






Post# 1053574 , Reply# 12   12/8/2019 at 09:34 (1,746 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
LG Water Level and Comments

 I had an LG front load model for ten years (until the bearings went out). There was a screw I could adjust to get more water if needed. I did adjust that screw raising the water level until it came to the bottom of the door. Door could still be opened to throw a forgotten item in.

Does anyone know if this can be done on the LG3900 or the LG3800 Rosie is considering?

For what it's worth, the washer was pretty reliable. I had a rotor that got stripped. I could replace the part myself easily for under $100. It would have been an avoidable repair as I know to check this next time on a regular basis. The drain pump had to be replaced--this was due to one of my kids leaving a bobby pin in their pocket.

Mine had an easy-to-access coin trap and tube to drain the water from tub.

I did not have issues with mildew smell. Left the door cracked. Also, I ran a load on sani-cycle usually with bleach every week. My washer has an onboard heater.

Smaller items of clothing came up clean, but I noticed my comforters came out cleaner in a top load where there is turnover (I have the Maytag mvwp575gw top load now). However, the HE top loads that would probably qualify for the rebate very likely have low water and little agitation. I would get a front load over them.

It is my understanding LG has made some improvements making it easier for the homeowner to fix. Lorain Furniture has some videos that show this on the 3500 model (watch video below). Be aware that in the USA and where I live, it may be easier to find someone to work on Maytag/Whirlpool (and their private labels), Speed Queen, versus Samsung or LG.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO PinkPower4's LINK
Post# 1053577 , Reply# 13   12/8/2019 at 10:23 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

I'm of a mind to give up on the HE type washers. I only do 2-3 loads per week in the old Inglis DD. Turn it on, put in powdered soap, throw in the clothes, sheets, towels etc. and wander off for 40 minutes. Done. Is there any thing left that does this. Speed Queen seems to have abandoned the market around here. They were everywhere with those 2018 models everyone was complaining about. Now they're gone and the old Huebsch name is showing up, but not around here. The Maytag commercial machine is $1500 Can. Too much. Is there a decent agitator machine like a Whirlpool or GE or Frigidaire any more?

Post# 1053582 , Reply# 14   12/8/2019 at 11:36 (1,746 days old) by whatsername (Denver, CO)        

whatsername's profile picture
2 things: the 3500 isn’t a turbo wash machine, and any load with a sheet stretched across the back of the tub like that on a front loader will have dry spots. Think about the high spin speed, how thin the fabric is, and what will happen to the water that’s in the part of the sheet that’s in the center of the window as it spins. Totally normal to have the occasional dry spot and it doesn’t mean it didn’t get washed.

Post# 1053584 , Reply# 15   12/8/2019 at 12:15 (1,746 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Roper and GE?

 Roper RTW4516FW2 has a dual agitator, but it is vertical modular washer. This is also one of the lower priced ones. Someone on this board has one though, and he likes it a lot. I am not sure about the durability of it. People do not feel this design will hold up as well.

My Maytag vmwp575gw is also a vertical modular washer. However, the critical parts have been reinforced. Even so, I do not expect the washer to last more than ten years, but it is number 1 when it comes to cleaning performance and easy for me to repair. With that said, the Speed Queen TC5 seems to be the undisputed top favorite (and my overall favorite too) will likely require fewer repairs and last longer before major repairs are needed vs. the Maytag. However, it costs more too.

The Maytag has a five year parts and labor warranty (this is all the time) and the Speed Queen has a 10-year parts and labor warranty for a limited time only if purchased and installed before end of year. Otherwise, warranty is three years for that model. I am not sure if the same offer is good in Canada. I know you are having issues with locating a retailer anyway. Both of these washers are expensive where you live, the warranty offers additional peace of mind. This is the only reason I mention it.

General Electric also makes some top loads with the dual agitator. I tried to find the ones that are NOT HE. However, HE ones that have deep fill may work too. I have seen somewhere where one or some of their models may come with a direct drive now? If so, this may give it an edge over the Maytag washer. However, they would cost me about the same as the Maytag washer where I live.

I have been mostly looking at the knob versions. I like that some of these models still have the water level selector switch. What I don't like is the dial (the large white one) to select the cycle on the washer or dryer. They do not seem well made. The smaller knobs seem okay. I help someone do their laundry that has a GE machine.

They weigh 150 lbs. or more, so not a lightweight machine. This is similar to weight of Maytag.

I found these, but I cannot tell if they are direct drive or not. I cannot see the details of the parts diagrams well enough but I don't see a typical belt guard like what comes with vmw washers.

Is this one of their direct drive models? Look at the parts list for it?

www.geapplianceparts.com/...

What about this one?

www.geapplianceparts.com/...




Post# 1053585 , Reply# 16   12/8/2019 at 12:17 (1,746 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        
My experience with front load

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
They are definitely gentler on clothes. They take longer to wash clothes, but with today’s enzyme based detergents that’s not such a bad thing. You can wash king sized comforters no problem in larger machines.

With that being said, I would not buy one without a prewash cycle and compartment for prewash detergent. In my experience, the highly concentrated dirty water will soak into the fibers and create an odor and UnderArmor style breathable fabric is a major culprit of this. The prewash will allow for removal of major soil so the longer main wash cycle can do its job without soaking odors into the fibers. An extra rinse option would also be ideal with on onboard heater too, if possible.

Post# 1053586 , Reply# 17   12/8/2019 at 12:39 (1,746 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Rosie/Jim re: Reply #11 ...

All the items in the load absolutely got fully saturated wet and washed.  Dry areas at end of the cycle are artifacts of the higher spin speed, particularly if a single-ply layer of an item such as sheet is spanned across the drum and exposed to air currents.  I have a toploader that spins 1,010 RPM for a full six mins, a thin-fabric item in some instances may have a dry spot or two.

Post# 1053593 , Reply# 18   12/8/2019 at 14:25 (1,746 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

There is a dealer not too far away that carries Speed Queen washers. They have 2 models that are fairly reasonable after you do the currency conversion. They are as follows:

AWN432SP113CW04

AWNE82SP113CW01

I am not sure of the year of these 2 models but they are new. Any input would be appreciated.

Post# 1053621 , Reply# 19   12/8/2019 at 18:24 (1,745 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
Both are very good washers. I have the 8 series and then bought a 9 series control board to essentially make it a 9 series. It cleans amazing! I would get the awn432sp113cw04. Same internals with manual controls. You will love it.

Post# 1053735 , Reply# 20   12/9/2019 at 21:39 (1,744 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
awn432sp113cw04

 I would get this! I did not know you could still find a awn432sp113cw04. It has more water level selections and mechanical controls. The TC5 replaced it, but I would rather have this older model. Great find :-)

Post# 1053754 , Reply# 21   12/10/2019 at 00:44 (1,744 days old) by larrbb (San Jose)        

Speed Queen , GE and LG are the brands that I would like to recommend. To the certain models, I recommend Speed Queen awn432sp113cw04 , LG 3900 series, and GE GTW485BMMWS

Of course, there are still so many other brands and models to choose from, you may need to do some more deeper research before you make the decision. sansang, maytag, whirlpool also have some great energy star washers.

You need to consider these factors:
ENERGY STAR® certified,The more efficient the unit and the less water it uses, the higher its tier.

Capacity: Is your family growing? Will children be growing up and moving out? For reference, a 4.5 cubic feet washer fits 25 to 30 bath towels (depending on towel thickness and weight).

Space: How much space do you have for a washer and dryer? In addition to the units themselves, you need room to open the doors completely. There are stackable and combination washer/dryer options available. If you had a top-load and are considering a front-load, make sure your space has clearance for the door to open fully.

Laundry Habits and Cleaning Challenges: Do you add items after the wash cycle starts? Do you leave clothes in the washer for a few hours after the cycle ends?

Sound Dampening: A quiet machine is essential if it’s near a living or sleeping area.

resource credit: www.healthyarea.org/revie...

Post# 1053798 , Reply# 22   12/10/2019 at 08:03 (1,744 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

After doing some more research on washer reliability, no easy task these days, ( Consumer Report is using industry reviews I noticed and the other retailer reviews are worthless) I found some info from Yale Appliance out of the Boston area. These numbers are based on models they sell and they service. Speed Queen is not very reliable according to them. It seems a basic Whirlpool model is the most reliable choice, although the reviews on those is not all that encouraging either.

blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reli...

Post# 1053804 , Reply# 23   12/10/2019 at 09:18 (1,744 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
I’ve owned my speed queen for two years, so I can’t say much on reliability or customer service, because I haven’t had a problem. I can say it’s built like a tank. I do at least one full load a day and on days that I wash bedding, I do at least 5 loads of heavy queen and twin size comforters one after the other. The motor laughs and asks if that’s all I got.

Here is a good video to see how well they are built.






Post# 1053936 , Reply# 24   12/11/2019 at 09:22 (1,743 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        
Maytag commercial

 I have all but given up on the Speed Queen model mentioned above. The company in Canada seems to be in a state of chaos. The Speed Queen name has been dropped, again, and is now the old Huebsch name here. There are a few of the TR series and maybe a TC series somewhere but the warranty is for only 3 years, not 10. The Maytag vmwp 575 seems to be everywhere and at exactly the same price, $1399 Cdn. It has a 5 year bumper to bumper and a further 5 year on the motor and drum for a total of 10. It's a lot of money compared to the other agitator models or the LG, but I just don't trust the durability of those machines. I also try to avoid stuff from Asia, they just don't seem to care once the product is sold. Maytag has done right by me over a fridge a couple of years ago. Any input would be appreciated.

Post# 1054047 , Reply# 25   12/12/2019 at 06:27 (1,742 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
For Rosie about MT575. Warning. Long. Others should skip.

 Rosie,

I have owned the Maytag mvwp575gw for about 18 months now. I believe it is the best top load in terms of cleaning performance. Period. Not only do the tub and agitator move separately, but the top and bottom of the agitator move independently too (dual agitator). This creates a wash action that moves the clothes around AND through the water—not just a side to side motion.

This review is a good comparison between SQ TC5 and the Maytag mvwp575gw:


. I would like to add a few comments of my own.

This MT575 owner's manual (which looks like it is written for more than one model) states, "Normal, Warm, and Hot water may be cooler than your previous washer. Deep Water cycles will provide higher temperatures for the wash cycle." I have not had any issues with the main cycle water temperatures. I seem to have hot tap for the main cycles with my water heater set at the recommended 120 degrees F. The temperature for warm, cool, and cold can be made a little warmer by starting the wash cycle with hot and then turning back to the desired temperature for the remainder of the fill. I am not sure what the ratio of hot to cold is for those settings, and the final temperature is determined by your water heater settings and temperature of your incoming cold-water supply. The washer alternates back and forth either filling with Hot OR cold but not both at the same time.

The initial reviews I saw suggested this washer's max hot temperature was a mere 90 degrees. Based on this information, I had my washer setup a different way in the beginning, so I could manually control the temperature for main and the normal "eco" cycles. I am not getting these same results. I do not know what role the thermistor plays in this washer, but I seem to have tap hot for the main cycles. I tried to go back and correct any comments I made where I could. With this said, I do not know if this is everyone's experience.

The single biggest remaining quirk I have with the MT575 is the ONLY half tub wash cycle IS temperature controlled. There is no way around this that works ALL year that I can find. If you set the water temperature to hot, the water is only lukewarm. This works cycle works well for most loads I do, and the hot setting is warm enough to dissolve detergent. For a true hot load, I have a workaround. Watch this video:


.

If you do not want a spray rinse for a Normal half load, just run another wash cycle with no detergent. However, this spray rinse works surprisingly well. I love this cycle for quick loads!

If I were to compare the SQ TC5, this is what I would consider.

Plus for the MT575. The cycles on the Maytag are what you would expect. Delicates, Bulky, Mixed, Powerwash, and Normal "Eco". Some of the cycles on the SQ TC5 are not what I would expect. Delicates is almost like a handwash cycle. Bulky is more like Delicates. Knowing this up front, will help you select the cycle that will work for your needs.

Plus for the SQ TC5. The TC5 does not have Automatic Temperature control. No extra sensor to break. Fills with hot, cold, or a mix.

Plus for the MT575. The automatic temperature control (ATC) can add some hot water to cool and cold-water washes to keep it from being too cold.

The rinses on both washers are tap cold.

VMD. The vertical modular design does not seem as durable. Critics do not like that it uses a mode shifter and a gear case (Maytag calls this a transmission, but I guess it is not a "real transmission"?). However, this is the reason the tub and agitator can move separately. It is inexpensive and easy for most consumers to replace themselves. I do think I will probably have to replace the plastic parts and a belt before the washer is ten years old, but this washer is 20 to 25% less for me. I am going to take an educated guess and say the TC5 will probably just need a belt in this same time period.

Both washers have control boards behind the knobs. The TC5 also has a control board for the motor. I think that the SQ's are probably better built, but that the MT parts will be less expensive and easier for me to find and replace later—it shares the same parts with several of their real commercial products. The TC5 seems like it is a time-limited model. SQ reinforces this by continuing to promote the TR series in its ads, programs where it provides free washers to schools, or to testers at a discount/no charge in exchange for a review. SQ also has been known to pull negative reviews and blacklist sellers with honest reviews. The only incentive MT provides is a chance to be entered into a sweepstakes. I have not heard of them doing the same.

The TC5 does have better suspension (springs attach to the bottom) whereas it the MT575 has hung suspension. You can see that here:


. I have not had any issue balancing loads in the MT575. I wash like items with like items: A load may be 6 or 7 jeans OR 28 t-shirts OR business casual (5 pants and 5 shirts) OR 6-7 towels OR sheets, etc. If you want to wash bed pillows or pet beds, you may have more of an issue with the MT575 because the weight will be different on each side of the tub, and it will not handle it as well as the TC5's design. The items should really be washed in a front load or taken to a commercial laundry mat.

MT offers a five years parts and labor warranty. There is an additional warranty (10 years total on the motor).

SQ normally offers a three-year parts and labor warranty. There is an additional parts-only warranty on the transmission (15 years total).

SQ says their washers will last twenty-five years. However, most washers will require at least a rebuild and the bearings/seals to be replaced around 15 years. As an average consumer, I do not have access to those parts at cost or have the experience, skill, and strength needed to replace those--I am an extra small adult. While I think I the SQ will require less minor repairs and will run a little longer without major repairs, I do not believe the average consumer would get more than 15 years out it. I expect to get about ten years out of the MT (maybe more because I use the washer like you are supposed to not overloading it and washing stuff in it that is was intended for).

GE has some dual agitator models with direct drive, but I have seen this only for their touchpad models. I am of the opinion that knobs even with a control board behind them will probably last longer than a touch pad on these models. Control boards are usually more expensive than a gearcase for the MT.

I have spent a lot of time reading reviews, posts on boards, etc. They have good information based on experience based on the perspective of someone who sells or repairs appliances for a living. What is not so obvious is many of the people have access to parts at a discount, can fix the major repairs washers themselves, and trade out washers on a regular basis. I am just a typical consumer. I plan to use my washer until it dies, can do minor repairs myself (this does NOT include rebuilding transmissions or replacing bearings/seals which is cost prohibitive for me to pay someone else and may not be physically possible for me given my small size), and wash several different types of clothing (towels, outdoor wear, sports uniforms, technical trade uniforms, kids' clothing, pet stuff).

I think either washer is a good choice. The SQ has the overall edge for durability with good cleaning performance. The MT has the overall edge for cleaning performance with average durability. No washer today is like your Grandma's thanks to the government new energy regulations--gone are the tried and true mechanical washers with a real metal transmission.


Post# 1054052 , Reply# 26   12/12/2019 at 08:10 (1,742 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        
Pink Power

 Goodness, that was very informative. Speed Queen, now Huebsch in Canada, is out of the running. No suppliers, no service within 100 km. The Maytag is available at every retailer that sells Whirlpool. Home Depot, Rona, Leons, Canadian Appliance, Lowes, and the small independent stores. All near by. Sadly the price is fixed at $1399 Cdn. which is steep. I think it sold in the US for $799 which is $1053 Cdn. I asked Maytag why the discrepancy, what with free trade and all, no reply. The Koreans don't do that but the US appliance makers always charge way above the American price to Canadians. Thanks for the information. I'm still looking.

Post# 1054107 , Reply# 27   12/12/2019 at 15:02 (1,741 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
I’m not a fan of the suspension and the lack of options. It’s built well other than that. From reviews it cleans good. If you want to go old school and can’t go speed queen it’s the closest you can get to old school washing.



Post# 1054148 , Reply# 28   12/12/2019 at 19:08 (1,741 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Speed Queen is not a choice.

 Rosie says Speed Queen is not a choice. "Speed Queen, now Huebsch in Canada, is out of the running. No suppliers, no service within 100 km."

The old mechanical model with transmission or the TC5 are the only models I would consider.

Due to price, Maytag doesn't look like a choice either, but I tried to show her what the differences were. The mvwp575gw I have seems to be better made. It is the ONLY Maytag top load I would consider. The ones at the big box stores have too many other quirks and do not have the part upgrades the MT575 got. I have no clue what Maytag was thinking by only providing ONE half tub option that is temperature controlled to lukewarm by default, but it actually works well on regular clothes and a quick wash. I just would not use it for true delicates. For the occasional hot load, I'll use my extra hose. However, it looks like it may have some competition now.

The only other top load that comes close (in my opinion) is this GE one. Kirk did a review on it:


. It has the dual agitator and a direct drive. It fills with enough water and seems to have more options. It still has the hung suspension. The touch pad concerns me. Really concerns me. For that reason and the extra four year warranty MT has, the MT keeps the lead. YouTube videos suggest this touch pad on similar models could be an issue. However, the GE washer would cost me $150 less than the Maytag. Where Rosie lives, it could be a bigger difference. It says one-year limited warranty for parts and labor. Most lemons would show up in that time. The 10-yr is parts only for motor. I could not find a direct drive option for the knob version.

Honestly, if I get a year out of a machine at least I have come out ahead on what I would spend at the laundry mat. Sad but this is what the DOE regulations have come down too. SQ is NOT a choice for everyone.

If neither of these top loads would work, I would reconsider front loads.

Post# 1054152 , Reply# 29   12/12/2019 at 21:19 (1,741 days old) by Rosie (Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada)        

The GTW725 does not appear to be available in Canada, at least yet.The GTW750, not the same washer, is $1449.
I don't like LG/Samsung products. I had a Samsung fridge that lasted 3 years, no support. Family members have had LG and they were burned as well. LG/Samsung dump their products over here and take losses to build market. It worked because they dominate many consumer appliance markets now. You can still buy Panasonic televisions here but if you look at the ratings outfits, like CR and Wirecutter, they place LG/Samsung in the top for damn near everything. The video reviewers on Youtube rarely test out Whirlpool or Electrolux products and when you do see one it's a cheap model they are surprised works or an expensive model that the fan boys rave about. These video reviewers have a vested interest in showing only what they sell. I would buy a Whirlpool front load but there is no info about them. The products are not seriously reviewed. You can't go by the big box reviews, half of them were promotional. Even CR customer reviews are using big box reviews now. North America has no reliable source for unbiased information on the products consumers are spending big money on. No real world test reviews. No durability reviews. That's just sad. Rant off.

Post# 1055658 , Reply# 30   12/26/2019 at 19:06 (1,727 days old) by jkoenzuraida (Sidney)        
I loved mine!!

 I got mine and loved it. Trying to get it to work correctly


ZUraida owner of Dumpster Rental Dayton OH

Post# 1055705 , Reply# 31   12/27/2019 at 09:37 (1,727 days old) by jkoenzuraida (Sidney)        
I love it!!

 I got mine and loved it. Trying to get it to work correctly


ZUraida owner of Dumpster Rental Dayton OH

CLICK HERE TO GO TO jkoenzuraida's LINK
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