Thread Number: 81549  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Whirlpool-Maytag-KitchenAid dishwashers: 2020 Redesign
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Post# 1055820   12/28/2019 at 17:05 (1,524 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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I had a feeling this was coming. It's definitely quite different than the GlobalWash platform, but I also am not surprised to see that the CleanWater/MicroClean (spinning filter) wash system is now being adapted across the KitchenAid and Maytag lineup.

I'm keeping an open mind and would like to see more info and pictures on this platform. I am however a bit sad that this likely means the phase out of the current GlobalWash design, now that I've fallen in love over the years with that particular platform.


Post# 1056104 , Reply# 1   1/1/2020 at 00:14 (1,521 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Whirlpool line

I wonder if this will trickle into the whirlpool line as well.

Post# 1056129 , Reply# 2   1/1/2020 at 08:49 (1,520 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA)        
watched the video

Sounds like the space to work on these is tighter than the current tall tub offerings. The instructor make it look easy to install. I like the new diagnostic/installation cycle that helps verify that the machine is installed and working properly.

Post# 1056376 , Reply# 3   1/3/2020 at 09:17 (1,518 days old) by john76 (USA)        

Iím anticipating needing a new dishwasher to replace my 2005 Maytag. I removed my kick plate to see if a closed back unit like Bosch would be doable, apparently not since the conduit comes up through the floor. Would the newer Kitchenaid work? Itís not clear to me whether or not it is possible. The term open back is what I believe is needed for my situation.

  View Full Size
Post# 1056478 , Reply# 4   1/4/2020 at 13:51 (1,517 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I just caught on the KA web site they are having a 25% off sale until January 8th on4 of their Clean Water Wash models.  

Post# 1056493 , Reply# 5   1/4/2020 at 17:18 (1,517 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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So does this mean that Maytag will drop there current wash system? I hope they don't drop the hard food disposer ,part and go to a filter. Maytag dishwashers sell like crazy I saw 4 being sold today in 20 mins at HomO-Depot . I have been saving for a new Miele dishwasher for 8 months.My Smeg is going down the tubes fast and that is one expensive dishwasher to fix. I could get the TOL Maytag today and have money left but I do want a Miele ...

Post# 1056497 , Reply# 6   1/4/2020 at 17:40 (1,517 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Wes, they are going to the self-cleaning filter (Clean Water Wash System like I have in my 2015 KitchenMore Elite.  In fact, my first hint of this coming to pass was the last version of their TOL (wasn't on the market very long, less than a year), mentioned in the manual was the Clean Water Wash system that's  a filter the continuously cleans itself and no mention of a 4-blade chopper.  This model was the only model that didn't have a tiered upper rack and the 3rd rack was mind of modular in how you could arrange it.  It's an MDB8989.  It was removed from their web site more than a month ago but can still be found at some of their retailers.  

Post# 1056509 , Reply# 7   1/4/2020 at 21:29 (1,517 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
Tiered Rack!

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I hope Maytag doesn't do away with the tiered upper rack!  That is such a unique feature and comes in handy when washing large cookie sheets, etc. on the the lower rack. 

Post# 1056523 , Reply# 8   1/4/2020 at 23:50 (1,517 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        
New 2020 design?

I found these on whirlpool digital assets. Looks like they are going away from tired.

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Post# 1056534 , Reply# 9   1/5/2020 at 00:34 (1,517 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Tub does look lower.  Wonder if they went with an induction motor like LG to get that lower depth.  Tom, did you find any KitchenAid dishwashers?  I've been looking and haven't found anything.  

Post# 1056568 , Reply# 10   1/5/2020 at 07:07 (1,516 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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Well, that certainly a all-new design. The uppermost drawer is reminiscent of the MyWay rack.

Here's a screenshot of the disassembly, installation and reassembly video. Looks like a normal pump to me.

  View Full Size
Post# 1056578 , Reply# 11   1/5/2020 at 09:13 (1,516 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Seems like they basicly eliminated any real sump here to save on water volume.

Water diverter as per usual. Drain pump mounted for better backwashing of the filter to the right there.
Only 2 wires to the main pump by the looks of it (should be the blueish onces going to the white pump housing at the bottom herr) which would make me think it's just single phase AC. Or some really weired DC setup without speed monitoring.

Post# 1056633 , Reply# 12   1/5/2020 at 19:24 (1,516 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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Wow. That image of the sump and wash arm. That is sexy. I didn't expect to see something that sleek. Whirlpool has plenty of haters, but they know how to craft beautiful appliances both inside and out and have perfected a balance of form vs. function. I'm keeping an open mind about the platform itself until I can see/feel it in person but I'm actually really excited to see more about these machines, and eager to see what the KitchenAid side is going to look like.

The more I've watched the video, and looked at these photos, the more intrigued and impressed I am. I'm not sure exactly what kind of black magic is happening to create that amount of space from top to bottom, but it looks like what they've essentially done is positioned the pump assembly adjacent to the sump, where previous designs have the entire assembly stacked on top or close together. It looks like the higher parts of the bottom of the tub are what would be the bottom in the current tall-tub designs, which is why they didn't have to reduce the motor size at all, they just positioned it under that high side while bringing the entire sump and wash arm assembly lower in the center. It's very pretty, and I'll bet when a camera is put inside it's going to look really cool seeing how the water flows around and into that new sump design. And I'm ABSOLUTELY glad to see those giant clown-shoe looking wash arms that have been in the Maytags as of late going bye-bye.

It also doesn't look like anything is changed as far as the actual motor/pump assembly. When they debuted that CleanWater/MicroClean wash module back around 2015, they sort of retrofit it onto the existing GlobalWash assembly, whereas now it's offset underneath, largely unchanged, but seems that it's going to be the flagship platform now.

I think it's a genius move. That pump assembly is the most innovative change to dishwashers in probably the last three decades. Until this design, the formula has either been a removable filter, or a disposal blade wash system with a soil accumulator. This is blending the best of those worlds: the quiet, energy-efficiency of a filter, with the maintenance-free ease of a self-cleaning disposal system. The idea is genius: a filter cylinder with laser etched holes that are microns in diameter, just like Dyson's filter shrouds on the Cinetic and V8/V10, but that filter is spinning with the impeller, while a deflector baffle continually lifts the soils away and prevents them from sticking, keeping the soil continually in suspense, to be sucked away when the drain pump kicks on. No other manufacturer to my knowledge has been able to implement anything like it, and if Whirlpool doesn't market the crap out of that kind of innovation to combat companies like LG and Samsung and their gimmicky products, it will be a terrible disappointment.

I really hope this is going to be Whirlpool's "step up your game" era. The changes to their design are all highly competitive selling points, the filtration, the taller tub, the huge third rack design, etc. Whirlpool needs to get people excited about their products like they used to years ago. The market is too stagnant now to afford otherwise.

Post# 1056653 , Reply# 13   1/5/2020 at 21:47 (1,516 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        

I have not seen any new kitchen aids on there. Ive been looking too! I was looking at those pictures again.. looks like there is a bar with holes in it on the third rack- that actually looks cool!

I agree with the last post, I really hope the new design works well!

Post# 1056713 , Reply# 14   1/6/2020 at 16:36 (1,515 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Damn ,I am impressed . It looks great ,I see they took inspiration from Miele dishwashers. The wash arms

remind me of a Miele. I am glad now I have not bought a new dishwasher I guess I will wait until these come out. I was reading the patents for this wash system and there are alot of them but, I found one that would make more sense If I was a Whirlpool engineer or marketing man.

This patent(US9301667B2)

combines the clean water rotating filter and it also has a grinder in it.  I am not sure which patent they are 

using because, there are so many and companies always tries to cover as many bases as they can.I love the look and design of the inside and I guess I will take a chance and buy one when it comes out,after I look at more closely.

It is nice that they are keeping Maytags more powerful motor than that 60 watt wash motor that Whirlpool has been using.I have always wondered why Whirlpools Euro division's always look better in every way compared  to what we get over here. Maybe things are changing.

Post# 1056716 , Reply# 15   1/6/2020 at 17:18 (1,515 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

One thing I am dumbfounded by is why they - from what I can tell - basicly completly stayed away from variable speed pumps.

That is slowly becoming standard across the board from the lower mid tear upwards - at least over here.

These mostly PWM driven DC motors are cheap, reliable and take away with the annoying 50/60Hz hum that even the quietest DW with mains driven motors have.

Post# 1056783 , Reply# 16   1/7/2020 at 15:28 (1,514 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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No one ever mentions JennAir....aren't they supposed to be higher end than KitchenAid?  I wonder if they will have any extra features above the KA's besides being quieter.  I know some of their models are listed for $1999.....I wish I would.

Post# 1056819 , Reply# 17   1/7/2020 at 22:43 (1,514 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New WP DW Designs

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Hi Andrew [ reply #12 ] yes indeed this looks exciting, WP is already the worlds leading DW builder and this looks like an efficient simple design that eliminates the messy-stinky filters that WP and GE have been using because they thought copying cheap Bosch and Miele designs was a smart way to build DWs.


There is no need for complicated variable speed motors and excess sensors, A DW needs to wash dishes and get rid of all food soil and DRY the dishes which requires a DRY heater not gimmicks that do a so-so attempt at drying.


I will keep an eye on these DWs as we start selling them, I might even install one and test it against my 1987 WP PC DW.


John L.

Post# 1057172 , Reply# 18   1/10/2020 at 18:28 (1,511 days old) by tomdawg (Des moines)        
Whirlpool has new videos regarding the 2020 line up


looks like they are focusing on kitchen aid too.. pretty neat!

Post# 1057213 , Reply# 19   1/11/2020 at 02:40 (1,511 days old) by trappn (Illinois)        
Planning Ahead.....................

My GE Profile (Triton) dishwasher is going on 17 years old. Pull everything apart every few years to ensure things are going well.

Assuming the new design hasn't been released, yet. When will we be able to eye-ball the new models?

Thanks for your help!


Post# 1057225 , Reply# 20   1/11/2020 at 07:07 (1,510 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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As per the installation video, I think it's February 20th is when the official announcement will be.

Post# 1057240 , Reply# 21   1/11/2020 at 08:56 (1,510 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
3 things

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1. Spin Tubes are back folks! Lol.
2. No differentiated x arm for KA :/
3. Chopper / disposer built into the drain pump!

Canít wait to see em.

Post# 1057241 , Reply# 22   1/11/2020 at 09:11 (1,510 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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i wonder if these new models will require the call of an electrician to install an outlet to plug the power cord in?

Post# 1057248 , Reply# 23   1/11/2020 at 11:11 (1,510 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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Yes, it looks like Bosch's MyWay rack meets Asko's middle rack meets a Spin Tube or Midea InnoWash spray system. Interesting, though.

Post# 1057255 , Reply# 24   1/11/2020 at 12:42 (1,510 days old) by tomdawg (Des moines)        
spin tubes

I wonder if the spin tubes will be the new way of dishwashing? I believe the old ones back in the day had them. spray arms take up a lot of room in the dishwasher.

Post# 1057285 , Reply# 25   1/11/2020 at 19:09 (1,510 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I noticed in the video the sump is a bit more contained in a "well", concentrated around the pump.  (No doubt due to how the motor is rearranged underneath and also gives more height for the racks).  That might help with food particles being fed easier into the system for filtering.  Sometimes I have debris that's not pushed into the sump to be put through filtering.  The instances are when debris is around the edge of the tub on any of the 4 sides.  And my machine fills up to proper water level.  And I also find this the case if I add some extra water to counter this.  Also, the heating element looks more substantial than mine.  I have to admit I'm a bit curious to know if some tweaks have been made to the Clean Water Wash System as opposed to my 1st generation design.  I've also been a little bit leery as to whether a Bosch with the MyWay 3rd rack and how well it could clean a cereal bowl that's been used to cook hot cereal.  I imagine this targeted jets will do very well in those situations.  

Post# 1057324 , Reply# 26   1/12/2020 at 08:34 (1,509 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Just so I'm clear

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this redesign will replace removable filters and put back in hard food disposers like the Maytags have always had?

Post# 1057331 , Reply# 27   1/12/2020 at 08:41 (1,509 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Kind of

Kind of, yeah, but see it more like a more elaborate self cleaning filter with soft food disposer.

Post# 1057375 , Reply# 28   1/12/2020 at 14:01 (1,509 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

Will these new Maytag's alternate wash arms? Will whirlpool release there own version or will they keep the global wash system? I'm excited myself.

Post# 1057600 , Reply# 29   1/14/2020 at 18:18 (1,507 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Looks like they're updated their Top Load line too.  

Post# 1057708 , Reply# 30   1/15/2020 at 19:11 (1,506 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Dual filtration whole meal pizza, cake, PB& sandwiches

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A caveat at the bottom of screen--"Results based upon non-standard usage.  Do not attempt at home."

Post# 1057718 , Reply# 31   1/15/2020 at 20:03 (1,506 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        
Do Not Attempt disclaimer...

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In today's world, I'm sure they have to do this because some dummy would put a pizza with meat and pepperoni on it, or a whole cake with walnut chunks inside or something, and then file a lawsuit because their pump assembly had to be torn out because the insoluble food gummed it up.

I wouldn't even attempt the cake test in my PowerClean if there were any food ingredients involved that don't dissolve in heat and water. Most people don't have common sense though, hence our society of "this could burn you/hurt you" labels on everything we buy.

Post# 1057720 , Reply# 32   1/15/2020 at 20:08 (1,506 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Somewhat impressed

Those rotating spray arms for the third rack are very cool. I just hope this design works as well as they state. However, if the dual filter whatever system works as good as they claim, shouldnít a normal cycle take care of those soils of the pizza, cake, and PB&J? Sensors should pick up on that extra junk. The power blast cycle in current machines uses about 7 fills if I remember correctly. Iíd certainly hope it would be capable of doing that.

Post# 1057732 , Reply# 33   1/15/2020 at 21:15 (1,506 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Kenmore version?

Could this be it?

Post# 1057738 , Reply# 34   1/15/2020 at 22:46 (1,506 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray arm action

I bet maytag's gonna start alternating spray arms like the rest of the whirlpool family does with their wash action. eh?

Post# 1057739 , Reply# 35   1/15/2020 at 22:57 (1,506 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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That's my dishwasher with the 3rd rack added.  This one was added to Sears July 2016, my model was released August 2015.  Specs say these had t4e cylinder spin at 3400 rpms where as the new  models spin at 3600 rpms according to one of the videos.  

Post# 1057741 , Reply# 36   1/15/2020 at 23:02 (1,506 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

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@lakewebsterkid - It should. I suppose they also like to showcase the marketing to their ďPowerBlastĒ cycle on the Maytags. To be honest, the overuse of the word Power on the Maytag products is cheesy to me. On the dishwashers itís literally just the same as Heavy cycle on all the sister machines. It doesnít increase pressure or anything, just forces the max number of prewashes and rinses and heats the main wash.

That said, the cake tests Iíve done on the Whirlpool 920 and KitchenAid KDFE104, along with the scorch test I did on thread floating around this site somewhere, I believe I used the Sensor or Normal cycles, and the machine decided to run with the max three prewashes with purges between, plus three full rinses. So Iíd imagine these new machines would operate in a similar fashion.

Also, that manual seems to be for the 2015 to 2019 MicroClean/CleanWater system like I believe appnut(Bob) has.

Post# 1057945 , Reply# 37   1/17/2020 at 17:24 (1,504 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

Andrew, that sounds about right! Thanks!
Interesting to see the KA MicroClean machines for the first time. appnut, have you had good luck with yours? I didnít know KA made anything like it! Seems like a cool design.

Post# 1057965 , Reply# 38   1/17/2020 at 19:22 (1,504 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Yes, overall I've been pleased with it.  

Post# 1058042 , Reply# 39   1/18/2020 at 15:17 (1,503 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I can't tell if it alternates wash arms or not. I am thinking that it does just because of that new 3rd rack 360 bottle wash.

The motor looks the same that is on Maytag dishwashers now. It says 1/3 H.P. on Maytags web-site but on the motor it says .24 H.P.  and 2.1 Amps of current . The motor is much more powerful than all of them out there that I have found. Most dishwasher pump motors today are 50 to 100 watt Askol Aquarium type motors.

I wonder if Whirlpool will use this type of pump with all there dishwashers like Amana,Jen-air and there own brand.




Post# 1058055 , Reply# 40   1/18/2020 at 18:02 (1,503 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Good question.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Post# 1058069 , Reply# 41   1/18/2020 at 20:49 (1,503 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Wex, Maytag was the last of the old Point Voyager pump design (all wash arms rotating at the same time) to be sold since the Clean Water Wash/MicroClean wash system was released sometime in 2014 with the initial model KA KDTM354DSS.  Then in 2015 KA released 4 additional models that made up their high-end models . Then 2 years ago they announced 2 or 3 more models that were less featured, but still included this pump design.  Sears released their own version in August 2015 with 4 base models and announced 1 or 2 more in 2016 before Whirlpool ceased selling their branded products in Sears.  There's only like 2 or 3 base models from the Sears MicroClean wash system left.  All Sears' new high-end models have been by LG since 2016 and 2017.     

Post# 1058101 , Reply# 42   1/19/2020 at 05:32 (1,502 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        
I had a feeling

Woke up yesterday morning to a dishwasher that I had turned on the night before, with no finish cycle light. Oh no. I tripped and reset breaker no change. Opened and check glasses, they were clean and looked rinsed. Pulled out bottom rack and there is clear water still in tub. No nothing when trying to start again. Completely dead. Between service call and parts mind as well buy a new one. It is a 7 year old Whirlpool tall tub. It was a good dishwasher but time to move on. Will go look at the new Whirlpool and Maytags on Monday. Actually this is shortest time I have ever had on a dishwasher. I guess I have had good luck.


Post# 1058102 , Reply# 43   1/19/2020 at 06:29 (1,502 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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These new models have not been announced formally yet. Sometime in February.

Post# 1058107 , Reply# 44   1/19/2020 at 08:25 (1,502 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Woke Up To A Dead DW

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Hi Jon, you probably just have an open Thermal Fuse in the control area, if you find this to be the case be sure to install the heavier wires that come with the new TF to prevent a repeat failure.


Post Your model # and I can tell you which one is needed.


Throwing away a 7 YO DW is like buying a new car when the battery is bad. I would not take the chance of damage to your kitchen, floor cabinets etc to have a simple to fix problem solved.


John L.

Post# 1058112 , Reply# 45   1/19/2020 at 10:43 (1,502 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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KDPM804KBS and MDB9979SKZ are some of the new KitchenAid and Maytag models listed on Besides an installation manual on Mayag's Canadian website, there's no information on the manufacturer's websites yet.

Post# 1058176 , Reply# 46   1/20/2020 at 05:47 (1,501 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

Hi John,

Thanks for your response. The model # is WDF530PLYW3. Any info would be appreciated.


Post# 1058192 , Reply# 47   1/20/2020 at 10:26 (1,501 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Dead WP DW

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Hi John, thanks for the model #, This DW does not use an external TF, it is built into the main control board.

Try turning off the breaker for 10 minutes, if that does not help confirm that the power connections in the junction box are good and that power is actually getting that far.

Other than these items it could have a bad control board, unfortunately the board lists for around $175, Sorry I though this DW still had an external TF which was a very common problem.

John L.

Post# 1058210 , Reply# 48   1/20/2020 at 13:45 (1,501 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Assuming SearsParts data is correct, board original P/N W10461370 subs to W10473200. has it $144.79.

Sears lists $141.95. $124.56 ($7.99 shipping) $121.62 $93.42 (but shipping is high $26.95) has choices of $79.00 (Refurbished, 1yr warranty), $147.20 (New - Salvaged/Open Box, 1yr warranty), and $168.00 (new, factory warranty).

eBay has a range of choices.† One I see is described as NIB / Open Box for $54.95 with free shipping.

Post# 1058263 , Reply# 49   1/21/2020 at 06:02 (1,500 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

Thanks guys, I tried shutting the breaker for a day and no change. Getting power right up to the machine. Was online yesterday checking prices for parts and along with this there is a problem with the fill valve. It is making a very high pitched whistle when filling. This just started a month ago. So that would be needed to be replace also. So me and the mrs went dishwasher shopping yesterday and picked out a Maytag MDB49490SHW. It was in stock and will be delivered and installed this week.


Post# 1058295 , Reply# 50   1/21/2020 at 16:14 (1,500 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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New Maytags & Kitchenaids are on Goedeckers web site.  The user manuals aren't updated to correspond with new models yet.  Maytag's Dual Power Filtration combines microfiltration and 4-blade stainless steel chopper.  The 3rd rack has a specialized wash zone.  


The KA 3rd rack can take on glasses & mugs up to 6" tall.  Has rotating wash jets.  

Post# 1058306 , Reply# 51   1/21/2020 at 17:56 (1,500 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Wash arm alternation

Does this Maytag dishwasher alternate wash arms, or do they run simultaneously? I'd like to know.

Post# 1058317 , Reply# 52   1/21/2020 at 19:26 (1,500 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
We got photos, people!

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Looking good!
Maytag model.

Post# 1058318 , Reply# 53   1/21/2020 at 19:41 (1,500 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Here's a KitchenAid


And the owns' manual is still the old document, doesn't go with the new model.  


Post# 1058319 , Reply# 54   1/21/2020 at 19:50 (1,500 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Quick Start Guide

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Mentions & shows about the foreign objects cup.  


Post# 1058322 , Reply# 55   1/21/2020 at 19:58 (1,500 days old) by appnut (TX)        
I know I"m beieng picky

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Just wish their TOL 804 model came with a water softener.  

Post# 1060551 , Reply# 56   2/14/2020 at 17:23 (1,476 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Well, new models are finally showing up on their corporate web pages.  And unfortunately, again, they don't provide the correct owners manual and other material, it's still the old product use & care.  Just, as indicated upthread, the appropriate quick start guide for the KA.  whirlpool did the same thing when they announced their new front load line late fall/early winter 2018.  Wonder if any interested potential customers realize it's the wrong documentation.  

Post# 1061409 , Reply# 57   2/24/2020 at 15:11 (1,466 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Maytag and KitchenAid - Cycle Guides

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  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1061438 , Reply# 58   2/24/2020 at 18:00 (1,466 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Alex, thank you!!  You had to have been sensing my frustration all the way to Germany.  This information is lacking in any and all documentation associated with the new models online next to product descriptions.  I also wish they had more graphics demonstration of various loading approaches especially for the new Flex 3rd rack.  Two things I did notice: (1) Water usage for the Maytag PowerBlast cycle is no longer up to 9 or more gallons a cycle and (2) estimated cycle length for comparable cycles is longer for the KitchenAid than Maytag by a few minutes--about 10 minutes actually.  The only thing I'm still wishing is for what the time addition/subtraction and water usage is for when the Upper 2 racks option is selected.  Also some graphic illustration of various ways to load the new flex rack 3rd rack and even the newly designed middle rack.  The "instruction sheet" was pretty pathetic at this.  

Post# 1061504 , Reply# 59   2/25/2020 at 09:20 (1,465 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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is where I found these cycle charts. No loading instructions anywhere, unfortunately.

Post# 1061579 , Reply# 60   2/26/2020 at 12:11 (1,464 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray arm action

Will all wash arms operate simultaneously, or will they alternate like the rest of the whirlpool family?

Post# 1061582 , Reply# 61   2/26/2020 at 13:37 (1,464 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
New Machines

I am a little disappointed.
It looks like using the normal cycle it will only perform 1 deep rinse after a purge, except heavy soil sensed cycles. That is how the PointVoyager machines were and I never liked it. Water consumption according to the document is 1.7 gal/fill, which is significantly higher than I expected. However, the document also states a typical normal cycle runs 3.4 gallons for the Maytag and 3.0 for the KitchenAid, so there could be an error. Hopefully the Auto/ProWash cycles will default to 2 rinses.
I do, however, like the stepped temperatures for the soil levels sensed. That is a really good idea for people that just hit the Normal Cycle and Start (90% of the population). I really hope that these machines do in fact alternate wash arms, but there is nothing on the tech sheet about it, or a mechanism that changes arms.

Post# 1061587 , Reply# 62   2/26/2020 at 16:51 (1,464 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
new machine

I've been interested in the arm action. It will be interesting to see and hear the machine during the cycle, including the wash action. It will be interesting if Maytag joins in with the alternating wash arm action club like pretty much everybody else I.E. GE, Frigidaire, and the rest of the whirlpool family does.

Post# 1061588 , Reply# 63   2/26/2020 at 17:00 (1,464 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
water use

Sorry, I stand corrected.
The Maytag's Normal Cycle consumption is 3.0 gal/cycle, whereas the KitchenAid is stating 2.4 gal/cycle for light load conditions. This certainly does not add up to the 1.7 gallons per fill.

Post# 1061591 , Reply# 64   2/26/2020 at 17:46 (1,464 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
whirlpool line

Is whirlpool going to transfer to this new design, or are they going to stick with the global wash system? Also, as a side note, I assume Maytag will run all their spray arms at once.

Post# 1061631 , Reply# 65   2/27/2020 at 07:08 (1,463 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Iím pretty sure the single fill water charge is around .8-.9gal.
Rinse has 1.7gal since it will actually do two rinses.

Post# 1061674 , Reply# 66   2/27/2020 at 15:23 (1,463 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

That would be far more appropriate. I would have been shocked if they created a new design that used that much water per fill and had the new filtration system.

Post# 1062474 , Reply# 67   3/6/2020 at 11:57 (1,455 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        

jetcone's profile picture

Can't wait to see how this performs. But am shocked you need to purchase a power cord after you purchase the machine. And that drip pan looks like trouble to me. 

Post# 1062487 , Reply# 68   3/6/2020 at 17:35 (1,455 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
a call to maytag

I made a call to maytag about their wash system. The lady couldn't tell me if the system alternated the wash arms. I assume they run simultaneously. I can't wait to see how it performs!

Post# 1062491 , Reply# 69   3/6/2020 at 19:19 (1,455 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
Power Cord

eurekastar's profile picture

I suspect the reason a power cord isn't included is because many will be wired into a junction box.

Post# 1062500 , Reply# 70   3/6/2020 at 21:43 (1,455 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Power Cords On Built-In US DWs

combo52's profile picture

Basically no US BI DWs ever came with a power cord unless it was specified and then you paid a little more for the DW.


It is basically safer and more reliable to have appliances and other high power use machinery wired directly to the power supply.


Now that DWs are being equipped with cords more often we are seeing failures of the plug and outlets from overheating, sometimes a plug for a DW comes partly out of the outlet and is not seen because it is under the sink and hidden by lots of stuff under the sink. A partly unplugged plug can over heat and start burning and with lots of crap around it, it can start stuff on fire, I would rather have the power connection under the DW in a metal box incase the connection fails.


John L.

Post# 1062592 , Reply# 71   3/8/2020 at 00:20 (1,454 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

How did you unziup the tech manual?  I downloaded it, but couldn't get it to unzip.  

Post# 1062599 , Reply# 72   3/8/2020 at 06:05 (1,453 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Bob, you're referring to the link in Reply #33?† That's a user guide, not a tech manual ... in .pdf format so no unzipping required.† If the file doesn't save as a .pdf for you, rename the file accordingly.

Post# 1062648 , Reply# 73   3/8/2020 at 19:50 (1,453 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Tech Sheet

I have a Mac, but I downloaded the file, and clicked the folder it created in the download folder. This opened up the folder and I just double clicked the pdf that was in it. Im gonna see if I can upload it here for easier viewing.

Post# 1062650 , Reply# 74   3/8/2020 at 20:37 (1,453 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I PMed with DadoEs.  He told me he looked at the file I'd been trying to download and he thinks it's corrupted.  He got the same results I did.  

Post# 1062680 , Reply# 75   3/9/2020 at 04:46 (1,452 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Well, here's the tech sheet for the Maytag.


Click Renditions and Original File to get the PDF and not that wonky zip file.

Post# 1062681 , Reply# 76   3/9/2020 at 04:58 (1,452 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Didn't find a tech sheet for the KitchenAid but the link I posted in #56 has some new pictures of the spray arms and tubes in action.

Post# 1062746 , Reply# 77   3/9/2020 at 17:45 (1,452 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        
Looked at the kitchen aid and Maytag line today!

I was rather impressed. Over all

Middle rack seems lighter and flimsier like Bosch.

The lower rack wheels have been redesigned, I first thought they were on ball bearings for how smooth they were.

No turbo zone, but I wonder if they will have them out in higher up models. The back of the lower rack still angles for turbo zone area.

Spray arms are sleek and sturdy

I was most worried how they were going to fit 11Ē plates in the lower rack and have room for the middle and upper rack

With the middle rack in lower position, there is 11Ē clearance

Just over 12Ē in upper position- the last models were 10 1/4Ē and 12Ē

Kitchen aid had two bars in the upper rack for cups. They both rotate- where the Maytag has one standard one and one moving bar.

The upper rack placement look completely different- I donít think you can load the bowls in the middle anymore.

I didnít measure the upper rack, but on the right side, could definitely hold larger cups.

The real test, is how well this dishwasher will clean!

Post# 1062770 , Reply# 78   3/9/2020 at 21:30 (1,452 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

Thanks for that update! I'm dying to see one of these in action!

Post# 1062799 , Reply# 79   3/10/2020 at 00:30 (1,452 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
stunning question

You took the stunning question out of my mouth. I'm also dying to see how the spray arms will operate, whether simultaneously or independently. Also, I wonder how it will handle blueberry pancake stuck-onto the plates and coffee stained mugs. I hope they will release the front control models later this year or in the future.

Post# 1062899 , Reply# 80   3/11/2020 at 09:32 (1,450 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
The KitchenAid has a 2-position diverter disc in the sump assembly. The tech sheet for the Maytag also mentions a diverter valve.

Post# 1062936 , Reply# 81   3/11/2020 at 18:16 (1,450 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray arm operation

Does this mean that both dishwasher brands will alternate the operation of the spray arms, or just the Kitchenaid alternating and the Maytag running all arms simultaneously?

Post# 1062991 , Reply# 82   3/12/2020 at 15:21 (1,449 days old) by whitetub (Montreal, Canada)        

I saw the Maytag version, yesterday at my local Rona big box store ( owned by Lowe's). The third rack seems so shallow. And it takes away extra height from the top rack ( in this case, the middle rack)

Seems gimmicky to me. I will stick to my Maytag dishwasher that I got last year, with the tiered upper rack. I don't need the third rack, it takes me long enough to fill up the regular two rack dishwasher.

Post# 1063840 , Reply# 83   3/19/2020 at 19:52 (1,442 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        
new videos

this video was helpful- saw some sweet wash action!


Post# 1063855 , Reply# 84   3/19/2020 at 23:42 (1,442 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
noise test

It would be interesting to hear this new machine running for a sound test to hear the different noises these new wash systems make. I remember the days when each washer, dryer and dishwasher had their own unique noises.

Post# 1064985 , Reply# 85   3/28/2020 at 22:32 (1,433 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
@Logixx: I can't thank you enough! Sending love! <3

Post# 1065558 , Reply# 86   4/2/2020 at 02:48 (1,429 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        

HI, I just bought a new Whirlpool version of the Kitchen aid, Maytag.
I love it. The 3rd rack at the top is really a great idea and we are using that a great deal for things like: whisks, serving spoons, rubber spatulas, etc. It has a 1 hour cycle and we use that. I use Bubble Bandit detergent and clean dishes are what we get. There are 4 cycles and heat/water heater cycles that you can program the way that you want. 3 level wash arms are in this model too.
It is very quiet. The 'fridge makes more noise when it turns on than the dishwasher does, and our whirpool 'fridge is quiet too. oh, You can also customize the cycles that you want and push the button and it remembers what you select. I like the stainless steel tub. I have never had one before; I have always had a plastic tub, but the stainless steel one is fine. I paid $743.00 for it on sale. I get my appliances from a local mom and pop store that has been in business since the '50s. He took the old one out, installed the new one, showed us how to use the new one and even came back for no charge to put a new shutoff valve in the basement for the new dishwasher. I like this a great deal. Gary

Post# 1065570 , Reply# 87   4/2/2020 at 06:36 (1,428 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Gary, congratulations!!!  What's the model number?

Post# 1065586 , Reply# 88   4/2/2020 at 09:41 (1,428 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Love the Mom and Pop and local franchises

chachp's profile picture



He took the old one out, installed the new one, showed us how to use the new one and even came back for no charge to put a new shutoff valve in the basement for the new dishwasher.


We have a locally owned ACE hardware up the street.  The more I use them the more I realize what you don't get at the big box stores.  


We needed a new leaf  blower.  The old one (only 1 1/2 years old) wouldn't start again this year so we decided to dump it because it's already been repaired twice.


Anyway, given the virus I didn't want to go the store and hubby didn't really care what it is he just wants one that works.  So I got online to figure out which one I wanted.  Rang them up on the phone and bought it over the phone.  I told them Joe would pick it up later in the day.


When he got there it was unpacked, put together, gassed up and ready to go.  He asked if it was a demo or something and the guy said no, we do this as part of our normal service.  They asked him to come in the back so they could show him the features etc.  When he got home with it I got on line to register it for the warranty.  I couldn't easily find it so I called them and asked where to go to register it and he said, "Don't worry about that we took care of it for you."  


Plus they do any repairs on site.  The one that crapped out we got at Lowe's or Homo Depot I can't remember.  But when it needed service twice we had to go all the way across town to a place with limited hours.  What a PIA.  This ACE is less than a mile from my house.


You'll never get those extras in the Big Box store.

This post was last edited 04/02/2020 at 09:59
Post# 1065594 , Reply# 89   4/2/2020 at 11:06 (1,428 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
New Machine

Nothing better than playing with a new machine! Glad that Bubble Bandit and the 1-hour wash cycle is working for you. Please post a model number and images! Enjoy!

Post# 1065829 , Reply# 90   4/4/2020 at 02:16 (1,427 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        
post 2- New Whirlpool dishwasher

Here is the model number of the new dishwasher.
I paid $725.58
I'll shall take a few pictures and post those.

Post# 1065889 , Reply# 91   4/4/2020 at 14:27 (1,426 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray arm operation

I assume this spray arm sequence alternates unlike the new maytag which runs all of them simultaneously.

Post# 1076364 , Reply# 92   6/8/2020 at 15:11 (1,361 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        

marky_mark's profile picture

Hi guys


I have a couple of questions about the Clean Water Wash system being used on these new dishwashers.  Is it the same system that has been around for several years and used on the Global Wash System?  As for how it works, my understanding is that large chunks are retained in the removable "foreign object cup" and may need to be removed manually if they don't eventually find their way through that course screen.  Anything that does get through is held in suspension and "thrown off" the internal filter which rotates.  Then comes the drain cycle, at which point all the solids are then pumped down the drain -- but is there a chopper or do they just get pumped out "as is" with the idea being that anything small enough to pass through the foreign object cup will be small enough to go down the drain?


Does anyone know how well these new machines perform compared to previous models?  I am particularly concerned about the "PowerBlast" cycle on the Maytag.  As far as I can see, this cycle used to take 3:30 to 3:45 and consumed 34 litres of water.  Now it apparently "only" takes 2:38 and water consumption is now 15 litres.  The options of "High Temp" "Sani" previously increased time and water beyond what they do now.  The heated dry options apparently used to add more time.  So either the technology just got a whole lot better, or...?  I would be very interested in buying one of the new KitchenAid models, but I do wonder if it would work as well as the outgoing Maytag model.  All feedback and thoughts appreciated laughing


Happy dishwashing!


Post# 1076417 , Reply# 93   6/8/2020 at 20:16 (1,361 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)        

murando531's profile picture
I can't speak to performance of them yet, but Bob and a few others who own one could attest to that. Yes, it is essentially the same wash system, just slightly updated. The first gen CleanWater pump assembly was retrofit to the GlobalWash tub/sump cutout, where now the new platform is a lower floor tub with the pump assembly offset to the right. But the procedure of the design is still largely the same.

You are correct, large chunks of food, such as large noodles or lettuce leaves, are caught in the course grate over the inlet. After that, the water pulls through a spinning laser-etched micro filter, and because of the winged baffles that surround it, tiny food particles up to larger chunks are continually sucked against and then lifted off that filter, which causes a spinning effect where the particles are suspended around the pump inlet. This allows 100% of the water to be filtered through the fine micro filter, as opposed to a more passive approach that the GlobalWash used, which allowed particles small enough to fit through the crescent shaped coarse upper filter to recirculate, but a large portion of the water passed into the fine cup for particles to be trapped until drain. That method was assisted by jets on the lower arm to help sweep particles towards the cup, but bits could still pass through that crescent shaped filter to the pump until they eventually got caught. The CleanWater design eliminates that entirely because the spinning filter cylinder has the same type of laser cut holes as Dyson's filter shrouds for their newer Cinetic and V8/V10/V11 vacuums.

Now, there's a slight variance in models so to answer your question about the chopper blade; yes and no. On both Maytag and KitchenAid models, the pump assemblies and method of operation is identical. However on the Maytag versions, there is a bladed attachment on the drain pump impeller. On both brand machines, the drain pump is mounted right on the side of that pump chamber where the particles are held in spinning suspension, so everything is pulled right out and sent down the drain, but for marketing purposes, the Maytag side claims that the drain impeller blades will help pulverize foods smaller for draining purposes. In my opinion, this is a bit of a gimmick, because the GlobalWash has been perfectly capable of draining out bits of rice or hamburger meat or noodles or corn without needing a blade or causing any clogging.

Post# 1076443 , Reply# 94   6/9/2020 at 01:16 (1,361 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
wash action and whirlpool version

It would be interesting to see if the wash arms running simultaneously will impede cleaning of glasses in the corners. Also, I am sure whirlpool will release their own version soon. There's no telling when, though.

Post# 1076474 , Reply# 95   6/9/2020 at 12:28 (1,360 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        

marky_mark's profile picture

Hi Andrew


Thank you for clearing all that up!  I've been following this interesting thread since you started it last year.  Hopefully I will get the chance to put these machines through their paces 🙂





Post# 1136792 , Reply# 96   12/21/2021 at 18:08 (800 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Maytag alternating wash action

It would be interesting to see Maytag's alternating wash action in their latest models. Sorry to revive this thread, but this topic seems exciting. I've yet to see a video of these.

Post# 1136812 , Reply# 97   12/21/2021 at 21:25 (800 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
Don't know if it's similar to MT but it reverses wash arm. It really works to purge old water from the sump and particles that could collect in the wash arm holes.

I haven't seriously looked at new dws for 20 years.

Post# 1136813 , Reply# 98   12/21/2021 at 21:29 (800 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
That video is produced by the member who started this thread.

Post# 1136815 , Reply# 99   12/21/2021 at 21:45 (800 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
The first two links above, I'm getting an error message when clicking. Some of the other ones also don't lead to any information.


3.8 MILLION views. I hope he's monetized. That's awesome.

He's getting all those views because it's ASMR from beginning to end.
The aid of that plastic bag he put over the light or camera really makes it work.

This post was last edited 12/21/2021 at 22:22
Post# 1136844 , Reply# 100   12/22/2021 at 08:30 (799 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Maytag spray arm action

How do they switch directions? Do they alternate jets like in the Kenmores? I'd like to know more about the wash action in this new platform.

Post# 1136845 , Reply# 101   12/22/2021 at 08:40 (799 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The old design used an internal gear system that would shift a slider to alternate nozzles and thus reverse from what I understand.
But did these reverse? I thought they just switched nozzles...

I think GE did a similar thing, but instead used 2 seperate water diverter positions and a pipe-in-pipe setup.
But I might be mistaken there aswell.

But I think the most current design does not reverse wash arms.

The new wash arms are much slimmer in both dimensions to reduce water needed for filling them.
They are also made out of thin sheet metal from what appears on the pictures.

There wouldn't be enough space for the gearing mechanism.

Post# 1136868 , Reply# 102   12/22/2021 at 11:15 (799 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Maytag pump

Do these new Maytag pumps have the diverter motor that Whirlpool is using? If so, How do they alternate between racks and how often?

Post# 1173933 , Reply# 103   3/6/2023 at 13:44 (360 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
dishwasher redesign updates

What are the updates on this platform? Did Whirlpool switch to this design on their own models? I'd like to know.

Post# 1173958 , Reply# 104   3/6/2023 at 17:44 (360 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

Godfrey Daniel.  Mother of Pearl.

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