Thread Number: 84628  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Persil Pro Clean powder or liquid?
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Post# 1090509   9/24/2020 at 12:26 (1,244 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

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What would be better in my old A407 and cheaper of the two? Im on the fence about these. I use the liquid and love it but its still expensive even with online deals.

Post# 1090525 , Reply# 1   9/24/2020 at 14:35 (1,244 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Powder hands down

jetcone's profile picture

why are you paying for water when your machine already has that in it?

Post# 1090533 , Reply# 2   9/24/2020 at 15:09 (1,244 days old) by Geoff (Cape Coral, FL)        

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I thought they stopped making ProClean powder a couple of years ago? It was my favorite and I'm still in mourning.


Post# 1090553 , Reply# 3   9/24/2020 at 16:38 (1,244 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

They did stop selling the power pearls in the US market. I buy German Persil powder off Amazon, not the cheapest but it’s well worth the price.

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Post# 1090593 , Reply# 4   9/24/2020 at 22:24 (1,244 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
Oh snap!

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I happened to see the powder in the wash in video on Youtube the other day and thought it was still available in the US. So Im SOL????

Post# 1090597 , Reply# 5   9/24/2020 at 23:14 (1,244 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Persil Pro Clean powder has indeed been discontinued, we had a thread here in group about it at the time.

Persil (Henkel from Germany) powder and megaperls are designed for h-axis washing machines, not traditional top loaders with central beater. It can be used, but you'll have to figure out what dosage gives good results.

You might want to search discount, dollar and other off price stores to see if can run a stash of Persil Pro Clean powder to ground. There is also always fleaPay, but people are wanting insane sums for containers of that detergent.

Post# 1090616 , Reply# 6   9/25/2020 at 04:46 (1,244 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        
Persil pro clean= persil megaperls.

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American version of powder from Persil that were indeed big pearls was actually similar to what in Germany and in Europe is sold in megaperls version. A much more compacted and concentrated powders version with bigger granules.
Different from regular powders? Sure!
Like every concentrated powder is indeed a concentrated surfactant componenti but percarbonate concentration is reduced in that small amount you dose that's why many people didn't find it as much performing as the regular powder. It indeed is not so on bleachable stains .

Post# 1090617 , Reply# 7   9/25/2020 at 04:54 (1,244 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Liquids= more enzyme power but fake optical white.

Powders= a bit less enzyme power, more whitening and bleachable stain power from oxygen + bluing optical white touch.

Post# 1090647 , Reply# 8   9/25/2020 at 09:43 (1,243 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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I bought Persil Power Pearls from Target in May and July of 2017 via online order.  Couldn't find it anywhere in local storefronts at the time.  It was NLA shortly after.

Post# 1090649 , Reply# 9   9/25/2020 at 09:46 (1,243 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Eddie got some this year off Amazon from Germany

jetcone's profile picture

It was $75/box not cheap.  Frederico, why do you think liquids have more enzymes than powders? 

Post# 1090685 , Reply# 10   9/25/2020 at 15:09 (1,243 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        
Liquids more enzyme than powders.

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They are usually more enzymatic than their powder counterpart and that is to cover the lack of other ingredients such as alkaline ingredients and oxygen that would perform better in hotter water, that is not true for every liquid of course and based on price you have better or worse formulations.
Some cheap liquid formulas just 1 or even none.
But as a general rule they are more rich in enzymes or have more kind of enzymes and that's because they were-are designed to be typically used at lower temperatures.
They know many consumers are afraid to use powders on warm-cold cycles due to dissolving problems, makers also know younger people are more prone to get a liquid instead of a powder and they also know they are the ones that usually use colder cycles or never set an appropriate temperature.
If you have say a grease stain and you use a barely warm cycle and a plain surfactant-soap product chances are the stain will just stay there, in order to break the stain in a liquid you need a rich amount of lipase enzyme to break the stain and a liquid will have more than a powder as the powder already have carbonate helping for that and typically is used in warmer cycles.
Powders such as Tide sure have more enzymes than a liquid such as cheap xtra but Tide liquid will have more than. Tide powder.
That is even more true for cold water products such as Tide cold water, it was "cold water" because it had a greater amount of enzymes to cover for the less effectiveness of the cold water it is supposed to work in.

Post# 1090688 , Reply# 11   9/25/2020 at 15:33 (1,243 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Anyways since you love Persil so much (for some reasons) with all the members abroad including me why not to ask if somebody will ship them to you?
I get Dixan (persil here) for €12 a 80 scoop box, on amazon or ebay they go for 4 times their actual value, it is s waste.

Post# 1090698 , Reply# 12   9/25/2020 at 16:52 (1,243 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have said this for ages....

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If one compares liquid/gel detergents to powders ingredient list for former is often vastly larger.

Liquid detergents (especially top shelf) are a chemical cocktail long list of ingredients often designed overcome one thing; lack of oxygen bleach.

Enzymes, surfactants, polymers, maybe heavy doses of OBAs, and other ingredients are made to do the heavy lifting of shifting stains, soils, and "freshen" laundry in absence of oxygen bleach.

This is why top shelf liquids like Tide Stain Release, Persil ProClean, Persil Gel, etc... perform well enough on stains like blood, grass, wine, etc... While often not exactly same results as a good powdered detergent with oxygen bleach (or adding that substance on its own), but often still quite good.

IMHO modern liquids are far more polluting than powders because of this vast chemical list.

It is pretty much same thing as when phosphates were removed from laundry detergents. It took addition of several other things to replace what phosphates did all by themselves.

Finally this heavy chemical cocktail IMHO goes along way in explaining why many report difficulty in some liquid detergents rinsing away cleanly.

Post# 1090715 , Reply# 13   9/25/2020 at 19:35 (1,243 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
"modern liquids are far more polluting"

One of the German consumer magazines also said that.

A decent powder still outperforms liquids, and as for enzyme content, a few of the powders have five or six enzymes.

Persil powder and Dixan powder (Henkel) have about five, and Lidl's Formil has around six enzymes.

P&G Ariel and Lever's Persil seem to have been dumbed down to four. The basic powders from these two giants (Daz, Bold, Surf) are usually even poorer.

Post# 1090723 , Reply# 14   9/25/2020 at 20:17 (1,243 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Paying for water

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Is one reason haven't ordered liquid/gel detergents from Europe in ages....

Am not paying quite dear shipping rates to move a container that is mostly water.

Post# 1090790 , Reply# 15   9/26/2020 at 13:10 (1,242 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

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Thanks for the advice guys I guess I'll stick with Persil liquid or Tide powdered when I find them on sale

Post# 1090796 , Reply# 16   9/26/2020 at 14:01 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Maybe you can give the Mexican stuff a try?


Post# 1090798 , Reply# 17   9/26/2020 at 14:40 (1,242 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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How do powders do with darks, blacks and vivid colors? Do they accelerate fading?
I’d like to switch to powder now that I got the Elux that pre mixes.
And I hate all the plastic jug waste.
But I’m concerned about darks.

Post# 1090799 , Reply# 18   9/26/2020 at 14:54 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Cheap garment's colors or extremely sensible may suffer from oxygen or alkalinity.
But on a general note universal powders are safe on colours and darks and that's all I use, if you wish there are powders specially designed for colours which don't have oxygen or oba's.
Myself I am much more worried about oba's since it happebed that they gave some garments a dull look because of the very fine lint in surface that would reflect the light, even more noticeable in a club with an uv light giving a black shirt a kind of white blue aura.
Some people are scared as hell to use powders on colors and only use liquids on those as they say they ruined a lot of items, but they are the same folks that using a liquid also shovel percarbonate additives such as oxy clean or clorox2
vanish etc like crazy or peroxide liquid additives..and apparently that one is ok...go figure...

Post# 1090801 , Reply# 19   9/26/2020 at 15:06 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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OBA's are weird anyways.
On some garments they enhance colors on others they make them dull.
Anyways if you use a liquid you shouldn't be worried of brightners as they typically are much more in a liquid than a powder because that's all they rely on to make their white, optical white indeed.
Some items dyes may be sensible to alkalinity, if you notice something that bleeds color easily even after some washes you might want to use a milder liquid detergent for that one.

Post# 1090802 , Reply# 20   9/26/2020 at 15:19 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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*if you used a liquid before

Post# 1090804 , Reply# 21   9/26/2020 at 15:26 (1,242 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Cheer powder doesn't have OBAs but does have oxygen bleach.

OxiClean™ recently introduced a new product, name of Dark Protect™ Laundry Booster, available in liquid and powder forms.

Dark Protect™ liquid ingredients

Dark Protect™ powder ingredients

Post# 1090819 , Reply# 22   9/26/2020 at 17:39 (1,242 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Worry about using powders for deeply coloured and or dark laundry is residue from insoluble or not totally dissolved solids.

Zeolites aren't soluble which under certain situations can lead to a sort of white "dust" appearing on darker fabrics. Often things going through dryer will remove much if not all of this "lint".

Cheap powders that contain lots of fillers such as cellulose (sawdust),which depending upon various factors can also leave a visible residue on darker coloured textiles.

Powdered laundry detergent formulas have advanced much since 1970's when users were routinely advised to dilute product in hot water before using a cold wash. But there is "cold" water,and there is cold water.

Great thing about liquid detergents for dark or deep coloured things is that you'll likely have less issues with dissolving even if tap cold water is on the chilly side.

Post# 1090821 , Reply# 23   9/26/2020 at 17:47 (1,242 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have said this before....

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Cheer detergent famous "colour guard" formula was the addition of small amounts of oxygen bleach (IIRC sodium perborate). This built upon chemistry that oxygen and chlorine bleaches cancel each other out. The small amount of oxygen bleach was just enough to counter chlorine found in most local tap water, but not enough to cause significant bleaching of colors.

Sodium perborate really needs water temps of >140F or above to get going, something not many would be washing colors in anyway. This is why various all fabric bleaches or detergents that contained sodium perborate advertised they were "safe for colors". Now if you used those products in a boil wash that was another story.

Sodium percarbonate OTOH is a stronger oxygen bleach and works in cold water. Across Europe borates/borax now have a nasty name. They have been banned and or restricted so many laundry detergents/oxygen bleaches have moved over to sodium percarbonate. Even with fact people are washing at lower temperatures today you don't want to risk exposing dark or richly colored things too often to any sort of bleach. Hence you find powder detergents for colors that don't contain oxygen bleach.

Post# 1090829 , Reply# 24   9/26/2020 at 18:45 (1,242 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Hmmm. Really good and interesting info.
I think I’ll pick up a powder box soon when I’m ready to replenish supplies.

Post# 1090858 , Reply# 25   9/27/2020 at 03:12 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Persil do not contain zeolite...nor do any of Henkel's powders sold in Europe.
Typically Procter and Gamble products contain less than 5% , it is cheap powders to blame for high concentration of zeolite along with a much more alkaline solution as they use carbonate as a builder instead of policarboxilates and phosphonates, zeolite as Launderess said could not get completely rinsed out thus being visible on colours.
I personally avoid powders containing large amounts of zeolites also because the can pose a risk of clogging pipes and sewers as there Torquay residue will settle down on pipes or in a septic tank they will bknd with fats creating clogging.
Good powders usually do not give such problems

Post# 1090859 , Reply# 26   9/27/2020 at 03:29 (1,242 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)        

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Unfortunately in the United States you don't get a clear chart of ingredients written on packages but you can easily get an ingredient list by downloading the Safety data sheet on The maker's websites.
You will also be able to see how many enzymes does a product contain and what kind of builders-water softeners and fillers it does have and pick what's best for you.

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