Thread Number: 84742  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Westinghouse Dishwasher
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Post# 1091973   10/4/2020 at 19:43 (1,350 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )        

reactor's profile picture
Anyone know specifics about this model? I am contemplating getting it. I assume this is late sixties or early 70's.

Does this model have a filter or just a maceration blade? Two or three final rinses? Heat its own water? Vertical or horizontal motor?

Thanks--Barry


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Post# 1091974 , Reply# 1   10/4/2020 at 19:53 (1,350 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
I assume (but I'm not absolutely positive) that is its mechanism, that would be a fun machine to play with. The macerator in my D&M machine works extremely well without any filter.

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Post# 1091976 , Reply# 2   10/4/2020 at 20:08 (1,350 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )        
Unique design

reactor's profile picture
Thank you for the information, Robert! From your literature this seems to be a rather unique machine in that the main pump motor operates even in the "dry" portion of the cycle to circulate air.

Just as odd, is the drain solenoid that is energized during normal operation and is de-energized during the drain mode.

Indeed yes, this would be an interesting machine to play with and performance test! I may very well get this.


Post# 1091993 , Reply# 3   10/4/2020 at 22:55 (1,350 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Barry, we know it's old enough before hot/cool dry options were required.

Post# 1091995 , Reply# 4   10/4/2020 at 23:05 (1,350 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Early 70s WH DW

combo52's profile picture

This was the last totally WH designed and built DW before WH went to WCI.

 

This is easily the worst DW built in this time period in many ways and did not work nearly as well as the WH DWs that came just before that had a filter.

 

This DW is such a joke that I have actually kept one in the museum line-up, it is a really interesting attempt to built a cost competitive DW when WH was on the brink of closing. Every possible corner was cut designing and building this DW, No wheels on the racks, no detergent dispenser, no filter, 5 rinses to try to clean up the mess, very poor durability pump assembly where the 1/2 carbon steel motor shaft would literally rust to the point of breaking off, The plastic fan would disintegrate and blow bits of melted plastic out on the floor, the drain solenoids would burn-up from having to be energized the entire wash and rinse cycles.

 

If this were a car it would be an eastern block Trabant, LOL

 

The only good thing about it was the timer could be turned in both directions and the tank and door liner were porcelain coated.

 

Hopefully this was an unused machine and may be in excellent condition, I will be interested in hearing your comments on it Barry,

 

It should be fun I have never known anyone that had one that was very pleased with it and they had such a short life you never see them any longer.

 

John L.


Post# 1091999 , Reply# 5   10/4/2020 at 23:22 (1,350 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Is the control panel

tilted? or is it flat like the door?

Post# 1092006 , Reply# 6   10/5/2020 at 05:42 (1,350 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I think it is flat like a bad tire.

Post# 1092027 , Reply# 7   10/5/2020 at 08:18 (1,350 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )        
bad design?

reactor's profile picture
Thanks for the information, John. I am not sure if I want to get it now. I tend to use my vintage machines and not just have them for show. If this machine is not reliable and disintegrates, I won't be able to get parts for it. So I may pass.

On paper, the design looks good, but apparently in practice they must have used sub-par materials. If this was Westinghouse's last dishwasher it must be about a '73 or '74 model.




Post# 1092036 , Reply# 8   10/5/2020 at 09:00 (1,350 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Westinghouse Dishwasher

chachp's profile picture

 

We bought a house in 1969.  It was built as a model home, but the builder ran out of money before it was completely finished and he sold it.  It had a Westinghouse Terrace Top stove and a Westinghouse dishwasher.  The dishwasher had the same interior as this one (the silverware basket is in the wrong place) but the outside had a bunch of oval shaped buttons and a dial.  I can’t remember if the buttons were on the left or right.  I do remember loading it.  I don’t remember if it cleaned well or not.  My Mom was a chronic pre-rinser.  Her first dishwasher was a top load spin tube Youngstown dishwasher.  When I would ask her why she practically washes the dishes before she put them in she would always refer back to her first dishwasher that she said didn’t really wash that well.

 

She didn’t care for the appliances and replaced them within a year or so of us buying the house.  I suspect ours was a little older than the dates stated for this one.

 

This might be a fun machine to have for occasional use, but I don’t think I’d want it for a daily driver.


Post# 1092056 , Reply# 9   10/5/2020 at 11:54 (1,349 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

The Westinghouse pull-out drawer impeller machines even did a better job than these.


Post# 1092062 , Reply# 10   10/5/2020 at 12:54 (1,349 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The first WH drop-door machines earned a check rating in Consumer Reports. That would be around 1965 when the 15 series KA came out. That was a different machines in so many ways from this one.

Post# 1092068 , Reply# 11   10/5/2020 at 13:09 (1,349 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

I've got what I believe to be a 1971 model, built in Canada.  Mine's a light-use machine and in pristine condition, but I still haven't tried using it myself!   I noticed some of the 'economy' features like the lower rack glides instead of wheels...  Mine also runs the pump during the dry part of the cycle... very odd.  


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Post# 1092084 , Reply# 12   10/5/2020 at 15:11 (1,349 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )        
stymied

reactor's profile picture
What a rude seller. It's almost a four hour round trip for me to get that dishwasher and he won't work with me on the time frame. He finally just quit responding. He didn't seem to care if he sold it or not.

Oh well.

If any of you live near Greeneville, TN maybe you will have better luck with the old coot.


Post# 1092086 , Reply# 13   10/5/2020 at 16:18 (1,349 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
How much?

chachp's profile picture

 

Just curious.  How much was he asking?


Post# 1092092 , Reply# 14   10/5/2020 at 17:19 (1,349 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )        
price

reactor's profile picture
$50

Post# 1092095 , Reply# 15   10/5/2020 at 17:34 (1,349 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Sellers sometimes get weird when you say that you are from out of town.  I've had this happen a few times....

 


Post# 1092252 , Reply# 16   10/7/2020 at 03:19 (1,348 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture

Did WW then turn into a D & M machine?  Maybe it should have been a D & M machine by that time.  I can remember in the 70's-80's the Kenmore dishwashers seemed more solid than GE dishwashers, even though they were D & M and would not last long either.  Oh, what we put up with back then!


Post# 1092260 , Reply# 17   10/7/2020 at 07:45 (1,348 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

White Westinghouse seemed to keep the Westinghouse-based design for all their "family" of dishwashers post-acquistion.  I had a couple of 70s and 80s Kelvinators that had the typical Westinghouse racking and wash arms. 

However, there was a point in the late 50s or early 60s when some Westinghouse machines were made by D&M... I think it was following the disaster of those high-console portable models that had a nasty habit of starting fires.  


Post# 1092266 , Reply# 18   10/7/2020 at 09:25 (1,348 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Only very late (90s) did Westinghouse and D&M come together--believe they had the slide outs/heated water until '63 or so, then a wash arm/filter (which apparently Consumers Union liked in about 1965), then to the oval-buttoned late '60s which morphed into this not-so-good design through the 70s.

In early 80s they redesigned with filtration (on upper end models) and the coarse snap-out filter toward the rear (slanted two-plane control panel) which were pretty good (I've talked about the good racks they had especially on the bottom) then they settled on the D&M design in the 90s.


Post# 1092339 , Reply# 19   10/7/2020 at 20:23 (1,347 days old) by electronicontrl (Grand Rapids, MI)        
I'd pass

electronicontrl's profile picture
You aren't missing much.
When I was a college student I lived in an apartment with Westinghouse appliances in harvest gold from the early 1970s. The dishwasher had no buttons. It was BOL. The interior was the same as in the picture. The only way this dishwasher would turn out clean dishes was if the dishes were clean when loaded. I was thrilled to have a dishwasher. It was a fun toy and we pre-rinsed everything thoroughly! But today I would pass on this model.


Post# 1092495 , Reply# 20   10/8/2020 at 22:54 (1,346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
I think people tried to hard. Why not just use an air dry? Why not just have a Kitchen-Aid Style solenoid?

Post# 1092496 , Reply# 21   10/8/2020 at 23:12 (1,346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
* I meant heated dry, my bad.

Post# 1092510 , Reply# 22   10/9/2020 at 00:38 (1,346 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply # 20

combo52's profile picture

OK, what's a KA style solenoid ?

 

John L.


Post# 1092515 , Reply# 23   10/9/2020 at 01:39 (1,346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
KA Solenoid

chetlaham's profile picture
One of these:

www.repairclinic.com/Part...

Design the the pump with two output ports- one for the wash arm the other for the drain valve.


Post# 1092547 , Reply# 24   10/9/2020 at 07:48 (1,346 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply #22

combo52's profile picture

The idea of the WH DW in question was to build an inexpensive DW, adding a 2nd pump and this type of drain valve does not go along with that goal.

 

The DV pictured was the worst DV KA ever used of the 3 popular types KA used over the years, they were prone to leaking at the shaft and clogging.

 

John L.


Post# 1092556 , Reply# 25   10/9/2020 at 08:34 (1,346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
No second pump, just one pump with two outgoing ports designed such that the drain port always has water pressure on the valve when running. Ditch the fan and air channel.

Post# 1092557 , Reply# 26   10/9/2020 at 08:35 (1,346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
And yes I know the valve does not require water pressure to stay shut, just that the pump as pictured in this thread does not produce enough water pressure on the drain port unless the flapper is totally blocking the wash arm port.

Post# 1092787 , Reply# 27   10/10/2020 at 21:21 (1,344 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
I was right!

neptunebob's profile picture

The simplest thing Westinghouse could have done then was to source a D&M dishwasher for their lineup.  Perhaps they didn't want to admit to a mistake?


Post# 1092819 , Reply# 28   10/11/2020 at 08:48 (1,344 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Westinghouse Switching To A D&M DW In 1970?

combo52's profile picture

This would not have been a good idea for many reasons, WH was struggling in the late 60s to remain competitive with GE, WP etc.

 

They had a workforce they needed to keep working, because of Union benefits it was expensive to just fire workers.

 

Switching to a poorly built D&M design would have reduced their profit  margin and D&M very well may have been unable or unwilling to build DWs for WH anyway.

 

This WH design was only built for about 4 years, as soon as WCI took over WH major appliances they quickly modified this DW in an attempt to upgrade it but the WCI DWs that followed for the next decade were loaded with problems and generally mediocre performance.

 

I have kept one 1971 WH DW for the museums wall of DWs because of the interesting engineering that went into this short lived product, we are also keeping one 1966 D&M LKM 240 volt DW [ thanks Kevin B ] but because of space limitations we are not interested in a bunch of WCI & D&M also runs.

 

John L.


Post# 1092824 , Reply# 29   10/11/2020 at 09:32 (1,344 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
Agree with you that the D&M was poorly built...

neptunebob's profile picture

But I remember in the 70s when us kids bought dishwashers for our parents that the GE had that awful plastic and seemed to be flimsy and the Whirlpool felt cheap too and the Kenmore D&M actually felt more solid for the same price.  I knew it would not last long (none did and we always bought an MA and put the repairman's kids through college) but I actually felt better with the Kenmore even with all their flaws.  Oh, and they rusted and were noisy and guzzled energy but I could not be without a dishwasher and they did clean the dishes squeaky clean.  A KA would be twice the price that as a young person I did not afford.  Like I said, oh what we put up with back then.


Post# 1092826 , Reply# 30   10/11/2020 at 10:00 (1,344 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
70s US DWs

combo52's profile picture

A middle of the line KM-D&M DW would have cost around $239, A KA KDI-17 would have cost about $359, after you added in 5 years of a MA @ $19.95 per year the KA was far cheaper and would have easily lasted another 6 years where as the KM may have been ready to be replaced.

 

Like SQ laundry today it is almost always cheaper in the long run to buy durability.

 

John L.


Post# 1092831 , Reply# 31   10/11/2020 at 10:41 (1,344 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

One point in the Kenmore's favor was the upper level wash system which increased loading flexibility.


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