Thread Number: 84924  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
A806 double stem seals-opinions
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Post# 1093895   10/20/2020 at 20:02 (1,338 days old) by Sudster ()        

Hi Everyone,

I've been around for many years soaking up knowledge from all of you mostly in vintage Maytag's and truly appreciate you all. Years ago Red Carpet Drew had an idea of using old style & new style stem seals being combined in a tub rebuild. Combo John disagreed, Then Beekeeknee Brian actually presented that idea in his excellent rebuild tutorial.I now truly wonder if that idea/practice has lasted without failure and leakage. I have emailed & called without response.Can anyone give their thoughts on this procedure?





Post# 1093909 , Reply# 1   10/20/2020 at 23:07 (1,338 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
Want proof? I got your proof right here....

qsd-dan's profile picture
I used this method in all of my restorations including the daily driver rig, a 1975 HA806 washer, that I did a full rebuild in 2009. 11 years of churning out laundry and zero failures on that machine (as well as the rest of them). Why not double your pleasure and double your fun by taking a $10-$15 chance on that 0A4298 seal as an extra precaution to save both an NLA agitator shaft, upper sleeve bearing, and risk contaminating the transmission with water.

Post# 1093937 , Reply# 2   10/21/2020 at 07:12 (1,338 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Adding A 2nd Agitator Shaft Seal To A DC MT Washer

combo52's profile picture

I do not have any information for you as I have not tried it,

 

My fear in doing this is putting the old style seal under the new lip style seal may put too much pressure upwards against the lip seal and either dislodge it or distort it and render it ineffective.

 

The old style seal needed a lot of pressure to work, it used a strong clip ring and a SS washer to maintain pressure against the seal to work.

 

Given that Maytags would usually last at least 20 years in the seal area if either type seal was used we will probably never have any accurate data to support the idea that two seals helped.

 

John L.


Post# 1093942 , Reply# 3   10/21/2020 at 08:09 (1,338 days old) by Sudster ()        

The Red Carpet Drew thread is --25520 -Changing a Maytag tub bearing and seal: A how to. Has anyone else used his idea?

Post# 1093959 , Reply# 4   10/21/2020 at 11:34 (1,338 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

>> Given that Maytags would usually last at least 20 years in the seal area if
>> either type seal was used we will probably never have any accurate data to
>> support the idea that two seals helped.

I'll second this. Not a vote for or against the double-seal, just that short of inventing a time machine, or setting up 24/7 accelerated wear bench tests and waiting months/years for results, there is really no practical way to know how things will settle out. And some machines are waaaaaay past 20 years before they give any signs of trouble.

If you're planning to keep a rebuilt machine running for 20+ years from today, I'd say the best option is to buy a low-mileage parts donor machine while you can still find them, and stash away the entire spare transmission and related wear parts, plus a new seal kit. That way you're covered if/when the seal leaks, and you're covered for any other mechanical wear or damage that comes with time as well.


Post# 1093967 , Reply# 5   10/21/2020 at 13:12 (1,338 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
The Red Carpet Drew thread is --25520


Drew's argument was the newer LAT machines with the triple lip seal were leaking in higher percentages than the older machines.

But John said no, the lip seal is a superior design and used in many applications outside appliances.

I'm not sure who is right, but I have used the agitator seal with a triple lip seal stem, so far so good after a few years of light use.











Post# 1094019 , Reply# 6   10/21/2020 at 22:10 (1,337 days old) by Sudster ()        

Thanks but the only guy ponying up is qsd-dan. This idea was posted in 2009 so that's 10 years ago roughly. I have a box load of parts and can choose any path I wish with this full rebuild. I was looking for guys who have done one or both over this time frame.I am slightly concerned over the pressure of 2 seals and the displacement of the top seal over time.I have emailed everyone originally involved with zero replies. This site seems to contain more Drama and Politics than friends helping each other with the mechanical /parts issues these days.What happened to Drew & Brian --Step up ya'll--Joe

Post# 1094047 , Reply# 7   10/22/2020 at 08:40 (1,337 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        
Step up ya'll....

swestoyz's profile picture
The folks you are hoping/expecting to step-up haven't posted on AW in quite sometime, and probably have no idea this post exists (Drew, Brian, etc.).

This subject has almost become so taboo that people are tired of the back and forth dialog about the pro's and con's and don't want to get in the middle of the crossfire. Your last post leads me to believe you've made a decision on which way to go, which is great.

If installing both seals did leak at some point you have the luxury of this being a hobby where you can fix an issue yourself; if this was being done as a service for a customer - that is where I'd get weary of implementing this experiment.

Ben



Post# 1094049 , Reply# 8   10/22/2020 at 09:01 (1,337 days old) by Sudster ()        

Thanks Ben,

So let me ask it another way. How many Maytag OWNERS have had the NEW style seal fail/leak using a smooth agitator shaft ? I'm not trying to annoy at all this is important to me. This A806 will be my main washer and I don't enjoy breaking down a project multiple times to investigate leaks. If you all trust the new seal so be it, I'll do that, Although I am impressed with Dan's results all these years.




This post was last edited 10/22/2020 at 09:38
Post# 1094051 , Reply# 9   10/22/2020 at 11:27 (1,337 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

>> I'm not trying to annoy at all this is important to me.

If that's true, you might try changing your tone a bit... because your wording in prior posts completely blows off those trying to help, and it sure sounds like you're trying to stir the pot. I'm not trying to put you on the defensive - I'm just saying that that's the vibe your posts have to the rest of us.

Back on topic, my mother's A308, with the original-style seal, had its first seal replacement after 39 years of service. That's anecdotal data of course, but it's what you asked for.



Post# 1094061 , Reply# 10   10/22/2020 at 13:35 (1,337 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
if this was being done as a service for a customer -

Thats a good point. Drew never mentioned if he used the double seal experiment in the field.

I doubt it. If it failed and another appliance tech was called in they would tell the customer: "Oh, here is the problem, the last guy used an agitator seal with the new style stem"! Then they'd call up Drew's boss to bitch and moan.

If the OP is worried about leaks and doesn't want to work on the washer again the safest best would probably be the triple lip seal alone as there is not enough info to support the hybrid method one way or another.

As mentioned, I used the agitator seal with the triple lip stem but I don't mind having to open it up again if a leak should occur as its much easier to disassemble a machine thats been recently serviced verses one that hasn't been apart since it left the factory 40+ years ago.






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