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Thread Number: 85200
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
Ariel, with Purezyme |
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Post# 1097198 , Reply# 1 11/15/2020 at 22:00 (1,257 days old) by lakewebsterkid  (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Very Interesting I will be looking into this, and also watching for updates! | ||
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Post# 1097223 , Reply# 2 11/16/2020 at 02:47 (1,257 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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| Post# 1097285 , Reply# 5 11/16/2020 at 14:40 (1,256 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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I wondered too, based upon the anti-fouling properties of the enzyme in nature, whether the presence of the enzyme in the detergent will keep the machines any cleaner, especially at cooler temperatures... i.e less crud, mould and gunk? | ||
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Post# 1097308 , Reply# 7 11/16/2020 at 17:52 (1,256 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Machine Cleanliness Good point. I hope it does! It would be nice to see Phosphodiesterase in powders. It would work at slightly higher temps and boost cleaning where they tend to lack. | ||
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Post# 1097339 , Reply# 9 11/16/2020 at 22:41 (1,256 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Off top of one's head and with a bit of research...
Ariel All-in-1 pods + Active Active Odour Defence have the new enzyme. www.ariel.co.uk/en-gb/sho... So do Ariel original "All-in-1 pods. www.ariel.co.uk/en-gb/sho... Ariel 3-in-1 pods "Colour and Style" www.onbuy.com/gb/ariel-3-... | ||
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Post# 1097395 , Reply# 11 11/17/2020 at 11:55 (1,255 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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| Post# 1097478 , Reply# 12 11/18/2020 at 03:10 (1,255 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Wonder When it went in? Have bought Ariel Regular and Colour Pods this month, and Gel in the last 2. Of course the packs just state "enzymes" on the ingredient list. I know the manufacture dates, but nowhere I could check if this would fall under before/after inclusion. | ||
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Post# 1097517 , Reply# 15 11/18/2020 at 11:54 (1,254 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Would be interesting to know what "removing dirt" actually means to CR.
Is this an umbrella term for a variety of pigment stains which the detergent has to remove from stain patches or does it mean they check whiteness after repeated washings on redepositing of "dirt" as most European tests would do. | ||
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Post# 1097541 , Reply# 17 11/18/2020 at 16:03 (1,254 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Almat and Formil | ||
| Post# 1097564 , Reply# 20 11/18/2020 at 21:38 (1,254 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Some find it odd to have hot water even supplied to their ma Agreed. Wouldn't give up the option for a hot water wash for anything. | ||
| Post# 1097587 , Reply# 22 11/19/2020 at 07:36 (1,254 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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Post# 1097591 , Reply# 23 11/19/2020 at 08:05 (1,254 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Starting with hot water wash from filling..
This is just wrong, totally wrong and even our great grandmothers and others knew this going way back. All items worn near or in contact with human body will be contaminated with sebum/perspiration/body oils which are all protein based. If you want to get indelicate about things can add urine to that lot as well (undergarments alone hopefully). In any event high temperatures will "cook" protein stains of all sorts ranging form body oils to blood and all in between. This is why laundry historically was always pre-soaked or pre-washed in cold, cool or lukewarm water before main wash with hot and certainly boiling water. In Europe with various options for self heating washing machines ranging from electricity to gas early machines "Normal cottons/linens) cycle usually most always had a pre-wash before main wash cycle. Many machines would even heat pre-wash water by default to 30 degrees F. You could then cheat and start the wash with hot water if you had a decent supply and not worry about setting certain stains or soils. In another thread in forum there is a vintage advert for a washing machine that says something like "why pay for heating water twice" or something. That machine had both hot and cold water connections and would fill with the former. Thus those who have combi-boilers or other means of ready hot water didn't have to rely upon cold fill and washer doing the heating. This made sense then, again if you happen to have a boiler or whatever near washer with lots of hot water just sitting there. Newest EU directives regarding energy use have pretty much removed hot fill; nearly everything is cold only. This of course saves washing machine makers money because they only have the one connection. Rationale for this being that as nearly from the start for European washing machines 208v to 240v or even in come cases 400v power is more than adequate to heat water in short amount of time, making hot fills not needed. More so since water consumption for wash cycles has been driven down to nearly wet wipe levels. Less water means less time and energy involved in heating. Other benefit of this coupled with modern technology (fully computer controlled washing machines) is how is it is easy to get near perfect results. Washer's brain tells machine based upon cycle and or some other setting how high to heat water, what sort of profile to use and so forth. Washer will start with cold, heat to whatever temp is chosen but maybe prolong period between 80F and 100F to allow enzymes to work better (famous "Stain" setting). Many modern washers in at least EU have done away with pre-soak cycle, and pre-wash as part of "normal" is long gone. You can select it for heavily soiled and stained loads, but many washers between cold fill, stain button and washing profiles do well enough on normal. When American housewives began moving to top loading automatics many practices of old that came with using wringer washers or doing the job by hand went by the boards. This included pre-soaking or washing laundry in cold water if hot or boiling was going to be main wash temp. Arrival of detergents (which are not deactivated by soils in ways soap is), meant many simply bunged things in machine and if "hot" wash was called for, that is what it started out as. This of course lead to aforementioned body soils being cooked into fabrics turning them yellow. Answer? Chlorine bleach! American housewives and even some commercial laundries have long used chlorine bleach to cover a multitude of wash day sins. | ||
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Post# 1097594 , Reply# 24 11/19/2020 at 08:19 (1,254 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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State of Powder Detergents In USA
Really don't think P&G puts that much effort into Tide powder nowadays. Lord knows it is difficult to find as many supermarkets and shops have devoted nearly all shelf space to various liquid or pod formats. On the off chance you do find Tide or any other powder it is usually on lower shelf with only one or maybe to variants.
Liquid detergents more are more polluting IMHO. Just look at ingredient list for any liquid, gel, or pod detergent; it's long as your arm with often many suspect chemicals. That and by nature liquid products are loaded with preservatives to give them any sort of stable shelf life. Think part of reason liquids are coming to dominate many markets is the rise of cool or cold water washing. It is possible to formulate powder detergents that will work well in cold water. But "cold" being defined as around 30 degrees C. At 20 degrees C or below things can get tricky. Pods of course are taking over anyway it seems. They do offer a less messy way of using liquid format detergents. And there is the ease and portability many seem to like. | ||
| Post# 1097639 , Reply# 26 11/19/2020 at 14:42 (1,253 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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liamy1 - Unfortunately they've gotten rid of the oxygen bleach completely, I buy Daz Professional at a wholesaler that still has it though. I'm assuming the reason for getting rid of the oxygen bleach is to reduce the risk of colours fading and now relying entirely on phosphodiesterase. I might buy the whites & colours version when I run out of my Daz Pro just to see how well it performs
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Post# 1097641 , Reply# 27 11/19/2020 at 16:00 (1,253 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Mr Alex
Having tried Daz whites and colours I can testify that its utter shite.... I used max per cycle and with a pre wash it still left stains on white serviettes, When I have used the Ariel I have left I will see if I can get hold of any Daz Pro see if that works against Napoli sauce stains as even using Persil bio I had to add stain remover, I was a staunch Non bio person and it never failed keeping whites spot on but they changed it and it was as useless as Fairy Non Bio. I am on the look out for a powder that will clean without extra additives but it seems that its becoming hard to find.
Austin | ||
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Post# 1097658 , Reply# 30 11/19/2020 at 19:43 (1,253 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Pods... Ohh I don't like them.....
First and foremost if you pack washer tightly at start, then they won't dissolve well before everything settles down. This can lead to that plastic coating not fully dissolving (if ever) leaving bits of that substance and or even product clinging to wash. If one does not notice this before bunging whatever item is "stained" into dryer that plastic will be baked on.
Yes, pods along with tablets do have the unfortunate tendency to get trapped in boot. Sometimes subsequent tumbling and water will flush things into tub, others not. Part of problem IMHO is that washers use so little water nowadays that there just isn't that bit of extra that comes up the door during wash as of old. By time that happens machine is onto rinse cycles.... Have noticed P&G on both sides of pond now suggests in directions to place pod at bottom of tub before adding wash, this rather than as most do bung the thing in last on top before closing door. | ||
| Post# 1097976 , Reply# 32 11/22/2020 at 14:01 (1,250 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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| Post# 1098172 , Reply# 34 11/24/2020 at 08:25 (1,249 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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Ariel 'Stain Remover' Made by Star Brands, under licence. I wonder whether P&G are moving to 'modular' detergents, allowing the user to add or ignore the bleaching component as desired? That might explain the bleachless Daz. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK | ||
| Post# 1098182 , Reply# 35 11/24/2020 at 10:00 (1,249 days old) by iej (.... ) | ||
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They could just be testing the market too. Little or no risk if they've no overheads. | ||
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Post# 1098206 , Reply# 37 11/24/2020 at 13:06 (1,248 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Death knell for powder laundry detergents
Began once phosphates were removed. P&G along with others reformulated to use Zeolite, washing soda and other builders, but can be a bit of one step forward, and two back.
Zeolites are on environmental/tree hugger hit lists because of supposed difficulty if filtering out of waste water. Also too much of the stuff can lead to dusty looking colors and darks if they aren't rinsed properly. Real game changer came when P&G launched liquid formulas of their top selling brand Tide/Ariel. It has been off to the races ever since. It was well known that powders are better for clay based soils, and liquids oily/greasy sorts. Hence famous "ring around the collar" commercials for Wish detergent. In decades since 1970's nature of how most live in western and many eastern nations has changed. Less and less dirt on clothing is of the ground in clay based soils, and more is of body and other oily dirt sort. Then you have the ever increasing push to turn down the dial... Powdered detergents can work well in cold water if properly formulated; but there is "cold" and there is cold water. At temps below 30C things can be tricky. As more and more wash is of the color or dark nature prime reason for powders (at least in Europe) was their bleaching power has declined. With addition of enzymes and ever increasing technology liquid format laundry products continue to up their game so use of bleach (oxygen or chlorine) isn't always necessary. When you add to this ability to pre-treat with liquid detergents, things just get better. However with most modern TOL liquid/gel formats including pods that often isn't really necessary. | ||
| Post# 1098208 , Reply# 38 11/24/2020 at 13:20 (1,248 days old) by iej (.... ) | ||
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Unilever Persil Liquid back in 1988:
Advert is a bit cringe lol
Wisk (Unilever) was briefly around in this market too.
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Post# 1098220 , Reply# 40 11/24/2020 at 15:10 (1,248 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Was never impressed with (then) Lever Bros. Wisk liquid detergent, and future offerings didn't move needle much. Tons of suds and cleaning ability was "meh"; Tide liquid came along by time Wisk was reformulated and was streets ahead.
That mania about enzymes wholly almost unique to Great Britain, Ireland and so forth is a puzzle. Numerous studies have long disputed enzymes in laundry products having any major affect on skin or health. Without enzymes only thing left for removing stains and some soils is high temperatures and increased use of powerful chemicals. That is how commercial laundries do washing, and you often can see what toll that takes on things after repeated trips through that process. | ||
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Post# 1098224 , Reply# 41 11/24/2020 at 16:02 (1,248 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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I`ve used those new Ariel Pods with phosphodieterase on quite a few loads so far and can tell I`m not that impressed for what they are.
The ads are touting their ability to remove those pesky "invisible sticky stains" which made me curious to give them a try because I have a very oily skin. I know what it means when the chest area of shirts gets an awful rancid smelling build up of body oils within less than 3-4 subsequent washings if I use an inferior detergent or don`t use tons of it. They perform much better than regular Ariel Pods which I consider absolutely useless but I still have to use two pods in hard water to get acceptable results. Any Dalli made store brand liquid does a much better job in my opinion at a fraction of the costs even without the new "miracle enzyme"
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Post# 1098896 , Reply# 48 12/1/2020 at 05:42 (1,242 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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@MrAlex
I never tried stain remover with the non bio it never occurred to me to be honest.
I bought a bucket of Kirkland signature super concentrated washing powder..... Oh dear another one to chalk up to no use. The bucket is more use than the contents.....lol I will go back to Almat/Formil as they do clean I just have to watch how much I put in. Will try Daz Pro and see how that performs. Austin | ||
| Post# 1099195 , Reply# 50 12/3/2020 at 19:44 (1,239 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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Kirkland powder It seems to be an unremarkable product... there's no enzymes in the mixture. | ||
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Post# 1099197 , Reply# 51 12/3/2020 at 20:04 (1,239 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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I use tide hygienic clean. What did they put in it? What ingredients did they use and did they add the enzyme? | ||
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Post# 1099198 , Reply# 52 12/3/2020 at 20:23 (1,239 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Passed by Target on way home yesterday and wandered in to see what there was.
Going through detergent section no, Tide HC does not have this new enzyme or whatever. Rather it depends apparently upon a good dose of solvents and emulsifiers to get at embedded dirt, something by the way commercial/industrial laundries have relied upon for ages. Also seem to have figured out what's up with that + "touch of Downy" thing. Looking at Tide free and gentle liquids both regular and "+ Downy" versions the latter has enzyme cellulase while former does not. By munching off bobbles from cotton fabrics things will seem smoother (among other things). There may be some other bits added as well that make up difference, but didn't have that kind of time to bother standing there comparing. Tide once included cellulase in all their detergents (packets had that Cotton trademark somewhere), but it seems P&G now reserve that enzyme for only certain versions of Tide and maybe their other laundry detergents as well. For what it is worth Tide HC both in pods and liquid seemed to be selling well at that Target as shelf was partially empty of both. Now remember why went into Target; they supposedly have lock down on Tide Ultra both regular and free/clear, but so far have never been able to lay hands on either as none of Target stores in our area seem to carry. Will have to look at K-Mart at Astor Place next time am down that way.... | ||
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Post# 1099291 , Reply# 54 12/4/2020 at 17:21 (1,238 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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Tide Hygienic clean and heavy-duty Seem to be bigger pods. Do they both remove impossible stains or just the reagular heavy-duty variety? Oh, and hygienic clean does come in heavy-duty also. | ||
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Post# 1099352 , Reply# 55 12/5/2020 at 07:42 (1,238 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Are there any regulatory requirements connected to the phrase "hygienic clean" at all?
Suppose this could even translate into "washing with Tide/Ariel gives more hygienically clean cloths than washing with plain water" and still meet all marketing requirements on both sides of the pond. Looks like they`re just jumping on the Convid scare bandwagon to fill their pockets. | ||
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Post# 1099372 , Reply# 56 12/5/2020 at 11:31 (1,238 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Are there any regulatory requirements connected to the phrase "hygienic clean" at all?"
No, don't believe so; it's same as with "Oxi", product makers are free to say what they like because the word or phrase isn't regulated. What controls there are apply to claims about disinfection; if something is claimed to kill "X" percentage of "Y" germs or whatever maker has to prove it or stop. Years ago P&G came out with Tide powder with "Hydrogen Peroxide" making all sorts of claims about how it killed 99.99% of whatever germs on wash (E Coli and so forth). EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) a US government agency in charge of regulating among other things pesticides, biocides, rodentcides...asked for required proof, P&G stopped making said claims.... In one form or another laundry soap or detergent makers have long made claims about how "hygienically" clean wash was with this or that product. Words may change in advert copy, but gist of things remained same. Persil and others going on about "white", "whiteness", and "whiter than white", along with "deep down clean....". | ||
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Post# 1099373 , Reply# 57 12/5/2020 at 11:49 (1,237 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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It is incredible how Tide "heavy-duty" and "hygienic clean" claim to either remove impossible stains or remove invisible dirt. Did they add different chemicals or are they using the same chemicals and just use marketing terms? I'd like to know more about these. I am currently using tide hygienic clean pods. and they seem to work. | ||
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Post# 1099693 , Reply# 59 12/7/2020 at 10:34 (1,236 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Washing powder. | ||
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Post# 1139004 , Reply# 64 1/11/2022 at 12:15 (835 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Soaking with enzymes I like a good soak. My F&P agitator and impeller washers have an option for a 2-hr soak during the wash period ... several mins of agitation, soak with a few agitation strokes every 1 to 5 mins (depending which model machine), then a few mins more agitation after the soak before draining. Combining Soak with Time Saver on the agitator models cuts it to 1 hr. Impeller models, the user can advance the soak after the desired time has elapsed to manually shorten it if desired. Some of the specialty cycles have a hard-coded 30-mins or 15-mins soak. | ||
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Post# 1139041 , Reply# 65 1/11/2022 at 18:45 (835 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Main "revolutionary" thing about Purezyme and other technology of late is that they are designed for lower wash temps (> 120 degrees F), and useful in cleaning synthetic fabrics.
www.jstage.jst.go.jp/arti... www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle... Surfactants, alkaline pH, hot water and good mechanical action will get out body soils. That is how things were done for ages using nothing more than just soap and say sodium metasilicate. Laundries also used other high pH substances such as sodium hydroxide (lye), washing soda, ammonium hydroxide (liquid ammonia), and etc... to "break" such soils from fabrics. Next to sheets and pillow cases of course other main culprit for sweat stains were collars of shirts, underarm areas of undershirts or dress shirts. www.esquire.com/style/men... When liquid detergents like Wisk hit the scene it was a break through. Unlike powdered detergents of old these products contained high levels of surfactants and solvents (eventually along with enzymes). Main issues today with body oil and textiles stems from same as host of other problems; people are washing at lower temps to just cold water. This and as noted synthetic fabrics have different properties than natural. Polyester along with some other man made fibers actually love oils and resist water. Not a great combination for getting things clean.. | ||
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Post# 1144190 , Reply# 68 3/9/2022 at 19:53 (778 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 1144192 , Reply# 69 3/9/2022 at 20:08 (778 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Laundress Correct! However, for items that are traditionally washed in either cold or warm, in theory, this product will increase removal of body grime by a significant amount. Better than nothing! | ||
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Post# 1145078 , Reply# 73 3/23/2022 at 11:19 (765 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
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Very Interesting Discussion!
My t-shirts have permastink from years of being washed at dumbed-down low temps in my previous lousy Frigidaire washer. I've been washing them at high temps in the new Miele and the smell is slowly disappearing.
The Novozymes Pristine sounds amazing but it looks like it's not yet available in the USA. Today I purchased the Dirty Labs Bio Booster and look forward to trying it by utilizing the soak function in the Miele to give the enzymes time to work. I'll report back on my results. I have to admit, I was a little worried when I googled deoxyribonuclease, the enzyme in Dirty Labs...It degrades DNA. That sounds a little scary to me. Anyone else wonder about that? | ||
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Post# 1145088 , Reply# 74 3/23/2022 at 13:41 (764 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Degrades DNA Yeah, it does. However, they are using Deoxyribonuclease in inhaler form for patients with Cystic Fibrosis. It can't be *that* bad in minor exposures. | ||
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Post# 1145089 , Reply# 75 3/23/2022 at 13:42 (764 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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deoxyribonuclease | ||
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Post# 1145373 , Reply# 79 3/28/2022 at 08:06 (760 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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Allows for better clearing Exactly! I’m not sure PDE/DNAse will replace the activity of Lipase 100%. I will need to look into that. Staying at a relatives now. I will likely give the Ariel Pods with PDE a try on some towels. We shall see. | ||
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