Notwithstanding the ridiculousness of the Gaggeneau EB 388 610 gas oven I'm dealing with, the last couple of things I've baked in a loaf pan haven't risen well.  Up until recently, I've had good results over the past couple of years.  Per the user guide, convection is the recommended method for all baking and I've learned that it's also the best at maintaining consistent and accurate temperature, at least with this particular oven.

I'm thinking the culprits could be any or all of these:  Old baking powder, old baking soda, or inferior Mexican flour that was the only item on the shelves back during the first COVID wave earlier this year when things were scarce. 

I just pulled an apple cider doughnut loaf cake out (the recipe in Sunday's paper sounded good) and it didn't even rise above the rim of the pan.

Are there any other contributing factors that I haven't considered?  

I've attached the page from the user guide with various oven options for your amusement, bewilderment, and collective mockery, and the short loaf.

Ralph I don’t know anything about convection ovens,  I’ve never used one.  But I would say that maybe the pan size could be the culprit.

 I know that recipes I’ve used for loaf cakes and quick breads bake up higher in 8”X4” pans as opposed to the 9”X5” pans I used to use.  Also, the age of the baking powder especially can effect the proper rising of cakes or quick breads, fresh baking soda isn’t as critical at in least my experience.  I’ve used baking soda that was 2 years old and worked fine.  I get fresh baking powder about every 6 months.

As for the convection oven, I’d just follow the owners manual or recipe instructions for convection ovens.

Eddie

Thanks guys.  The recipe called specifically for a loaf pan, either 8.5" x 4.5" or 9" x 5".  I used a 9 x 5 Corningware pan since my favorite L.A. Pottery loaf pan measures a little larger than that.

I know my powder is old, so that's the prime suspect.  I'll pick up some domestic flour if the reprise of TP & PT  hoarding hasn't yet spilled over to baking materials.  If I'm stuck with the Mexican A.P. flour (El Rosal brand out of Mexicali, B.C.) would sifting it help even if not called for in a given recipe?

Ralph, aerate your flour by either stirring it with a whisk to fluff it up before you measure it or shake the container before measuring.

 I keep my flour in a large Rubbermaid jar with a screw top, I shake it before measuring this way the flour isn’t packed.  I’ve weighed flour measured this way and it comes out to 4.25 oz. per cup, which is the recommended weight for 1 cup All Purpose flour.  I level the measuring cup with my finger, like I’ve seen Ina Garten do.  I buy Target Market Pantry or Good and Gather flour.

And I would recommend using the smaller size pan that is listed in the recipe, your cake will come out higher, guaranteed.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie, I'll remember those procedures and measurements for flour going forward.  I don't think I own a smaller loaf pan than the sizes I mentioned above, but I assume the metal ones are smaller so I'll pick one up.  I got rid of all metal loaf pans when we moved, not realizing that the Corning and ceramic ones I kept were larger than average.

As for today's finished product, I'm not all that impressed considering the work and mess that was involved.  I cut a slice off the loaf and the overwhelming flavor profile was reminiscent of Bisquick coffee cake, although the texture was much smoother.  Very little apple evident.  And to think the recipe was adapted from Bon Apetit!  I won't be making it again. 

Ralph, these are the loaf pans I use for baking our weekly bread and for quick breads and loaf cakes.  They are the Wilton Recipe Right loaf pans, medium size 8.5”X4.5” loaf pans.  They are inexpensive, True Value Hardware carries them, thats where I bought mine.  I had been using aluminum 9.5”X5.25” loaf pans that I’ve had since ‘78.  The difference in all my bread baking was improved.  The smaller size and smaller volume results in higher, more perfectly shaped loaves.  They were worth every penny of the $5.19 price per pan. 

HTH,

Eddie

Bud are you sure that this Pound Cake called for 425F?  Could this be a typo? I’ve never seen any Pound Cake recipe calling for such a high oven temp.  Usually they call for 325F, but I’ve seen Pound  Cake recipes calling for as low as 275F and as high as 350F,  but at 425F I think it would over brown before the center was fully baked.

One other thing I’ve learned in the past year, after 55+ years of baking is that room temperature ingredients result in a better cake, especially the volume.  To quickly get eggs straight out of the fridge to room temp I place them in a small bowl and cover them with hot tap water and let them sit while I’m measuring the the ingredients and preparing the pans.  Cold milk can be warmed to room temp quickly by placing the glass or plastic measuring cup with the measured milk into the microwave oven at 10% power for about 1-2 mins.

I always thought that room temp ingredients was baloney, but I tried it and became a believer.

Eddie

Bud,

A long time ago I learned when you convert a recipe you drop the temp by 25 degrees or bake less time.  I've never seen a recipe where I did both.  I'm with Eddie on the 425.  That does seem high especially in a convection oven because I would think the outside would be really dry and dark.  I only use 400+ in the convection oven if I want to brown something on the outside quickly.

I could be wrong, I've just not seen one.  Glad the pound cake came out so well.  I love a nice slice of pound cake with some fruit and whipped cream on top.  What the hell right, if you're gonna eat all those eggs and butter you might as well go the whole way and add some full fat whipped cream.  Right?

Ralph

Thanks to all for the additional replies.

This oven control stops providing temperature settings ending with a 5 once you get up to 300 degrees, I think.  The recipe called for a 325 oven, so I set it for 320 as opposed to 330.  I've had ovens with a convection option since 1990 and have usually adjusted the temperature lower when using it, but on this POS Gaggeneau, it seems to do fine with using the conventional oven temperature setting even when using convection, and usually requires the full amount of baking time as well.   I actually bumped it up to 330 for the final ten minutes or so when baking this loaf.  Again, it's an extremely overpriced POS that the former owner installed in her trophy kitchen (clearly she wasn't a cook, as the companion "Vario 200" modular cooktop is just as lame), but since this built-in oven is an odd size, replacement would require major cabinetry alterations, so for the time being I have to put up with it.

What the convection option is good at is limiting temperature swings.  Not so much when using non-convection baking.  Then it takes forever to pre-heat and the temp swings are significant.  That explains why the guide pictured above suggests the convection option for baking.

I have an oven thermometer around here somewhere so will double check, but I'm pretty sure the temperature settings are fairly accurate just based on my experience over the past 2.5 years.

A variance of 25 degrees more or less isn’t going to make an appreciable difference with the finished results of most baked goods.  It just means that they will either bake slower or faster than the recipe suggests.  This is why most times given for recipes have a window, says 35-40 mins for instance.  I always check anything I’m baking at the soonest recommended time and adjust for any additional time accordingly.

Just keep and eye on what your baking, don’t be to anal about the temps, unless your oven is WAY off, say you set it for 325F and it is actually 375F, then the thermostat needs to be recalibrated.    Also, once you bake a particular recipe, note what the time was when the item was properly baked  for future reference.

HTH

Eddie

Chuck, I too do the same thing with all my cookbooks and recipes.  I have notations next to almost every recipe I’ve ever used, either changing the amounts, the ingredients, times, temp or method of putting the dish or baked good together.

Now I use the internet and do searches for different things, review several, make mental notes of what I like or don’t like, them come up with my own composite recipe using the things that I like from various different recipes.  Then I write the recipe down and I have a great big stack of these handwritten recipes rubber banded together and kept in the front covers of three different cookbooks.  

I guess I kinda run my own “test kitchen” LOL.  But doing this has made me a better cook and baker I believe.  I think that I can always learn something new, and I do every day.

Eddie

I collect them from everywhere.  I recently was cleaning off the top of my desk and moved them to a pile on the floor with the intention of putting them in one of the many books I have made over the years.  I too, try different variations and note them on the recipe.  The one here is for the white bread recipe for my bread machine.  I have been making this one for years and have many notes.  Then I make books for speciality items like this one for grill recipes.  I also have an online cookbook where I list those that I want to share with people.

If I ever retire, I will likely spend a lot of time organizing all of these.  I keep wanting to scan things, put them in the on line cookbook, and then use them from my iPad when cooking.  I just keep going back to the handwritten recipes.  There is nothing like that stained piece of paper with notes all over to add to the pleasure of it.

Chuck,

I’ve used a number of cookbook apps over the years.  The one I like best is one called Cook’n.  What I like best about it is how it will automatically publish my cookbook to a web page that I can share with anyone I please.  I can type them in or when I find a recipe online, I can click a button to import it into my cookbook and it flags it where it came from which I also like.  I don’t want anyone to think I am claiming their recipes as my own.

Recently, he introduced a feature where you can scan a handwritten recipe and it will convert the handwriting to text.  I have not tried that yet.  That would actually mean I take the time to organize and catalog what I have all over the place and clearly, I’m not motivated at this time to do that.  LOL.  

You can subscribe to an account where your recipes will sync to their servers and access them from any device.  Meaning I can import and manage from my phone, iPad, Computer, etc.  They also have Mac and Windows apps.  The website is read only which I like because no one can mess with the recipes just use them.  There was one I tried and for the life of me I can’t remember what it was called.  It was all web based and I thought I would like that concept, but it wasn’t implemented well.  The interface was very poorly designed so I stayed with Cook’n.

If you have a friend who also uses Cook’n, you can click a button to share a recipe with that friend. 

I’ve used this app for a number of years now and I haven’t kept up with what else is out there.  I suspect there are other apps now doing the same thing.

My recommendation is Cook’n because it’s what I know.  Maybe others will recommend other apps that do the same thing.  I stick with this one because the developer is very open to enhancement suggestions and when something does go wrong they are quick to fix.

I have always hoped that someday we would have a cookbook incorporated into this website because I know we have a lot of really great home and professional cooks around here.  I know over the years there has been talk of it, but I also know what it would take to create and manage something like that so for now we post them the way we do.

Ralph

That sounds good.  I am definitely going to make that.  Thanks for sharing the recipe.  Does your wife use a bundt pan?  I have no clue where mine is as I seldom use it.  I do have a tube pan, I suspect that would work fine.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I agree that does look like a good recipe for Pound Cake.  And yes, a 10” tube pan would work just fine for this cake. Actually, sometimes I prefer a 10” tube pan for a Pound Cake over a bundt pan, especially if I want to put a light glaze on the cake.

Eddie

I posted detailed instructions on thread#82440 post #1068858 , found in reply #58, on how to make Marijuana edibles from scratch.

 If you live in a state where pot is legal and you have no adverse reactions from pot you may want to give this a try.  It’s healthier than smoking pot, the pain relieving effects last much longer and its a much less expensive way to benefit from the pain relieving effects of marijuana than buying prepared edibles from a dispensary.

 I have very bad arthritis throughout my body and this works better than anything else with no adverse effects.  My doctor approves of my using marijuana for this pain.  It’s non  addictive, opioids aren’t.  I won’t ever use opioids under any circumstance.

 It may seem complicated, but after you get the hang of it its really very easy. Just be sure to pay close attention to what you’re doing, otherwise you can waste a lot of money.

 I make a two months supply for just under $100.00. I store them in the freezer in air tight ziplock bags and remove only the amount I can use in a week at a time.  The whole process takes me less than 3 hours from start to finish.

These edibles are based on THC not CBD.

The recipe I use for the Brownies is as follows:

1cup flour

1 tsp. baking powder

1/2 tsp salt

1 cup dark brown sugar

1/2 cup canna butter (detailed instructions for making it in the thread referred to above)

1 egg

2 oz. melted unsweetened chocolate

Mix the dry ingredients together.  Melt the chocolate, add the canna butter, brown sugar and egg and beat together by hand.  Blend in the dry ingredients and put into buttered 8”x8” pan, bake at 325f for 20 mins, or until tests done with toothpick.  Cool for 15 mins, then carefully loosen edges of brownies and shake pan gently to loosen bottom of brownies from the pan, turn out on cooling rack and cool completely.  With a sharp long knife cut into 4 even quarters then cut each quarter into 16 even pieces.  The yield is 64 pieces or two months+ of pain reliever.  I take one piece at quarter to 5 every evening before dinner and the effects last until about 8:30.  It takes about 30-44 mins to start to kick in.

Eddie

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?82440

Someone gave me one of these pricey Gaggenau built-in steamers a few years ago. It was in a new home in the Big Horn area of Palm Springs (very expensive) and has never been used. Apparently the owner of the new house told her agent "get that stupid thing out of my kitchen" which meant replacing an entire slab of granite. I had planned to cut a hole in my counter and install it (requires a drain and 220 which is no problem) but got to thinking it doesn't do anything more than my cheap Oster steamer so why bother? I'll send it to you if you want to keep your dream kitchen screaming all-Gaggenau.

That photo of your finished loaf doesn't look that bad...it's a meatloaf right?

Ralph after reading Joe’s post I realized that there was a second photo to your OP, so I took a look.  That Apple loaf cake looks just like it should based upon the fact that you baked in  a 9”x5” loaf pan. Unless it didn’t taste good I don’t think that there was anything wrong with your baking powder or other ingredients or the method of preparation.

As I said before, baking this cake in a 8”x4” loaf pan the next time will result in the higher cake that you were hoping for.  It’s simply a matter of the pan being more on the large side, nothing else.

It looks like it would taste good to me.  The cinnamon sugar on the outside does make it resemble a meatloaf like Joe mentioned, but I’ll bet it gives it a delightful flavor.

But thanks anyway for this thread which elicited much interest across the board.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie.  The loaf did taste better the next day, and by FWB loved it, so I guess I might be making it again after all.  I really did like the texture a lot.

I was at the store today so bought a new can of baking powder.   The other stuff was really old, I know.  Even if the old powder wasn't the issue, it was time to replace it.  In tossing it out, I discovered that a bunch of it had caked up solid and was stuck to the bottom of the can.  Along with a standard size loaf pan, new powder should help provide better results. 

Joe, that steamer is about as useful as the ridiculous grilling module I have.  Ideally, I'd like to find the wok module, which offers a big single 16K BTU burner, to replace the grill.  I don't use the smooth top two-burner electric module much, but it does have its attributes so I'm willing to cut costs and keep that one instead of replacing it with an additional two-burner gas module.

It's the oven that really annoys me.  It has only one lousy rack and there are no stops for it.  Pull it out more than half way and it will tip downward and let whatever is on it slide and/or spill onto the door.  Not at all safe and I can't believe Gaggeneau even got it past the Consumer Products Safety Commission for marketing in this country.

As for meatloaf, I tried using a loaf pan for it once.  I don't know what I was thinking.  Well, I guess I wasn't.

you mentioned that you discovered caked and stuck on baking powder in the bottom of the can.  I’ve too had this happen, even with a can that was only a month or two old.

 One thing I discovered to be the cause was that I used to keep either an electric kettle or coffeemaker under the cabinet where I keep the baking powder.  I believe that it was the heat and steam generated by these  counter top appliances that was the cause.

 I also discovered that by scraping the caked baking powder into the measuring spoon and them putting it into a small strainer like is used to strain loose tea, and then using the measuring spoon to force it thru the sieve over the measured flour and whisking them together the baking powder was resurrected and performed just as it was supposed to.

Now I don’t keep these kind of heat/steam generating small appliances under this cabinet anymore and my baking powder stays loose and doesn’t cake.  Problem solved.

Eddie

You’re welcome Mike!  I hope you give them a try.  I make a batch every other month.  My lungs just can’t take smoking pot anymore and I really find the effect of pot much more enjoyable, longer lasting and better at pain relieving when its ingested in an edible.

I’ve also made cheese cracker in the past with canna butter and sometimes I make Blondies with this same Brownie recipe and just leave out the chocolate.  But the chocolate version is my favorite.  If I add nuts I make sure they are very finely chopped so they are evenly dispersed throughout the finished product.  And I always label the container prominently with the contents so there is no mistaking what they are and what the potency per piece is.

Eddie

....and OMG it is so good!!!  Thank you Bud for sharing the recipe.  It really is a keeper.  Worth every fat gram, carb and calorie!  There really aren't that many ingredients when you get into it.  Just a lot of butter, eggs and cream cheese.

To further our conversation on using the convection oven and whether or not to adjust times and temps.  I set the oven for 275 because the recipe calls for 300.  I monitored the temp in the oven as it baked and it stayed at 300 the entire 90 minutes.

And of course, then there are the dishes but that just adds to the fun.

We are also coconut lovers so I will likely make this too.  One question.  I have never seen frozen shredded coconut at the store.  It's not to say it doesn't exist I've just never seen it.  If I can't find it, have you ever made this cake with the dry coconut you get in a bag?

Thanks, Ralph

We have a Kroger close by I will check there.  We have a Whole Foods and Trader Joe's on the other side of town.  I will check those if Kroger doesn't have it.

What about using Bakers Flaked Coconut in the can.  Its much moister than the bagged variety.  

Eddie

Bakers Canned Flaked Coconut is really good, but maybe hard to find these days.  Back in the 20’s this was the only way to buy already packaged coconut.

My Dad loved cocoanut as a little boy, and there is a family story about this that could have ended in tragedy.  My grandma made her own soap.  And being the thrifty women that she was she gave everything a second use so as not to waste.  She kept a Bakers Coconut can with lye in it for soap making and one day she caught her toddler son on the floor with the Bakers Coconut can that contained the lye, ready to dig in.  Providence was on his side that day when she grabbed that can of lye away from him before he got a mouthful.

Eddie

Thanks George -- someone just shared the same tip with me yesterday.  I had already tossed the old can of powder, but will remember this for future reference.

I was out shopping for cards at Home Goods yesterday and found a longer, narrower loaf pan.  It measures 10 3/4" x 3 3/4".  I figured for $5 I'd give it a try.  I like the idea of smaller-but-proportionally-taller slices, and I like its retro 1930s color scheme.

Ralph thats a beautiful loaf pan.  But I hate to tell you that you’re still going to have a lower rising loaf cake.  Because of the additional length the volume of this new pan is going to be very close to the 9”x5” Corning Ware pan you used for this loaf cake previously, it will just be an inch and a quarter longer, but probably not any higher.  

Try it out and see what happens.  But I would still recommend getting an 8”x4” loaf pan if a higher rising loaf cake is what you are trying to achieve.

Eddie

Well shucks Eddie, I thought maybe the more narrow pan would provide better results than a standard size.  I trust your experience as a baker, but I'll give it a go with new baking powder and see if that helps out.  I still like the pan anyway and want to try it out, so I might as well make the doughnut loaf again before the jug of unfiltered cider from Sebastopol decides to ferment.

Louis, I thought of that.  What concerns me is that the recipe calls for 1-1/4 cups + 2 tablespoons of flour.  I thought at first that the two tablespoons would be used separately, cut no, that is the amount for the batter.  It strikes me as kind of ridiculous, but it also makes me wonder whether increasing amounts would cause problems.  Could two lousy tablespoons really make that much of a difference?  If so, who was so meticulous as to narrow the amounts down like that?  Or is it just a Bon Appetit thing to make the baker feel like they're creating something extra special?

Ralph I thought about this suggestion too.  Don’t obsess about those 2 tbs of flour.  I would suggest increasing all the ingredients by 1/4th to 1/3rd to allow for the larger volume of the pan.  I found when I began using the smaller 8”x4” loaf pan for Banana or Applesauce bread that the batter filled the pan to about 1 1/2” from the top of the pan, and I thought oh f*ck, its gonna overflow!  But it didn’t, it rose beautifully.  The recipe, like yours called for either a 9”x5” or 8”x4” pan, using the larger pan just results in a cake that isn’t quite as high, but still presentable and tasty. 

HTH,

Eddie

Hi Louis,  I do have a food scale but I don't trust it to be accurate enough for this particular situation.  I'll have to give some thought to how best to increase quantities, or just leave the recipe as is and use a loaf pan that produces the best results.  Maybe two smaller pans instead of one standard size?

I'll have to give some thought to how best to increase quantities, or just leave the recipe as is and use a loaf pan that produces the best results.  Maybe two smaller pans instead of one standard size?

I have a banana bread recipe that is supposed to be baked in a regular size loaf pan.  To get the inside cooked through I would have to bake it until the rest of the loaf seemed over cooked and dry.  So I just use two loaf pans instead and half it between the two.  I bake it a little less time but the loaf cooks all the way through and its a very moist cake.  I've been doing it like this now for a couple of years and it's always really good.

Thanks for the additional replies guys!  I may look into one of those scales. 

I had similar trouble with banana bread and some years ago decided to create my own recipe by taking elements from two other recipes, much like what Eddie said he has done with recipes over the years.  Ever since, my banana bread bakes evenly without any mushy parts, and that's in my larger than average 1971  L.A. Pottery Ovenware loaf pan.  It always rises higher than the pan.

Measurements or weights are very important when baking bread cakes etc. 2 tablespoons makes a huge difference follow recipes carefully.

Using the convection feature to bake cakes pies etc. is often a poor idea, of all the convection oven‘s I’ve ever used none have ever baked evenly.

You’re much better off using the radiant bake mode some of the great bakers on this site such as Kevin and Eddie and many others are baking with ovens without the convection feature.

Convection is mainly good for ovens that are very full of things or roasting meats.

It’s pretty useless to have a thermometer in your oven while you’re baking or cooking things. The only way to take an accurate temperature reading of your oven is to have the thermometer in the middle of the oven and not have any food being added or removed from the oven while you’re running tests.

John

I will check them out.  Thank you.