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Thread Number: 85726
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Slow, long stroke agitation versus short, fast stroke |
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Post# 1102736 1/1/2021 at 11:03 (1,544 days old) by marky_mark  (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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 I know most of us prefer the traditional long, slower stroke agitation. But why? Is this preference mostly due to nostalgic reasons or does the slower, longer stroke wash better and more gently etc?
Whirlpool direct drives can be shreadmores if not used wisely. But what about others like Maytag? This post was last edited 01/01/2021 at 11:20 | ||
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Post# 1102738 , Reply# 1 1/1/2021 at 11:19 (1,544 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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@marky-mark
Have you not seen a Servis washer that has the long slow stroke it stirs up a lot of current, Compare it to the Hotpoint which has a shorter faster stroke that washes in a totally different way it still stirs up the water but it makes the clothes go back and forth where as the service moves them all around the tub.
Austin | ||
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Post# 1102743 , Reply# 2 1/1/2021 at 12:10 (1,544 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1102747 , Reply# 3 1/1/2021 at 12:52 (1,544 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Long Stroke Vs Shorter Stroke Agitation Hi Mark, Either type has worked well in different washer and agitator designs.
The LS in BD WP built Washers was never really a problem for example due to good agitator designs.
Likewise the SS agitation of Frigidaire pulsator agitation, GE FF washers, Philco washers of the 60s and of course WP DD washers of the larger capacity design generally worked well.
Maytag offers a good comparison because they used two different transmission designs in the same washer design.
The BIG problem with MT LS washers was the two different agitators used were ill designed for such a narrow tub, the original bakelite and the Power-Finn both will grab clothing and just repeatedly drag the item back and forth through the water, this is especially pronounced with high speed agitation on lower water levels. [ Note MT sold more 1 speed washers than about anyone else ]
In the 1970s CRs decided to test the premise of whether consumers needed to buy a 2 speed washer or whether a 1 speed machine was adequate. To test they bough all the leading US washers in their basic 1 speed versions and washed sheer curtains in the machines, ONLY the MT with a PF agitator ruined in one washing the sheer curtain panels, not even the very aggressive agitation of a 1 speed Norge damaged the curtain panels.
The best thing MT ever did to the DC washer line was the Two-Way Load Sensor with the faster shorter stroke agitation, I was still working around my friends that had a Maytag Store and they said that virtually all the complaints about clothing damage went away after the LSA became standard in the domestic lineup.
John | ||
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Post# 1102764 , Reply# 4 1/1/2021 at 13:48 (1,544 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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That’s very interesting. Thank you for the replies and info. I’m learning so much here! What about the interim period where Maytag went over to the orbital transmission with the short, fast stroke but did not yet have the Load Sensor agitator, such as the photo below?
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Post# 1102767 , Reply# 5 1/1/2021 at 14:01 (1,544 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Early Short Stroke MTs | ||
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Post# 1102800 , Reply# 6 1/1/2021 at 18:41 (1,544 days old) by super32 (Blackstone Massachusetts) |
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Currently have the best of both worlds. I was faced with only keeping 1 of the washers for a moment but ended up keeping both. 1 short/fast and 1 long/slow. I actually like the short/fast a bit better. Both work, seem to wash ok, spin is the same of course. I have found that the short/fast seems to roll a larger load just a tad bit better.
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Post# 1102801 , Reply# 7 1/1/2021 at 18:59 (1,544 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Post# 1102802 , Reply# 8 1/1/2021 at 19:15 (1,544 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IMHO
If Maytag could have found a way to produce same results using agitator from wringer washers and that square tub in automatics, they would have cornered the market.
When properly loaded even large items like sheets move down and around by powerful currents of water. This instead of merely being dragged about bottom of tub. | ||
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Post# 1102804 , Reply# 9 1/1/2021 at 19:23 (1,544 days old) by super32 (Blackstone Massachusetts) |
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Reply #8 | ||
| Post# 1102806 , Reply# 10 1/1/2021 at 19:26 (1,544 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
Perfectly happy with the washing action and turn over in my ‘63 RCA Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII washer. When slightly under loaded, it manages to turn the load over at least 10 to 12 times a minute and I counted how many times the red t-shirt turned over, it turned over at least 12 times.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Maytag85's LINK | ||
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Post# 1102821 , Reply# 12 1/1/2021 at 20:37 (1,544 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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actually if Maytag gave their automatics the same belt drive as the wringers, they would have won hands down....
but that slipping clutch/belt is the true reason behind the cut-all-power lid switch, it wasn't about safety....it was so people switching from a wringer could not see the sluggish wash action pf the automatic compared to the wringer....which they thought they were getting... standard size tubs which formed an "O" offered better turnover...versus the oval taller shape of the larger capacity...if the tub for the larger capacity was made equally taller and wider, and the agitators size compensated as well, they wouldn't have had the issues that they did... this is where the Load Sensor helped out a lot.... the 50hz pulley upgrade is a nice touch for the pitman trans, a kick up in action these machines always needed... | ||
| Post# 1102823 , Reply# 13 1/1/2021 at 21:05 (1,544 days old) by Sudster () | ||
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Martin,
So the world should have ceased washer technical advancement at the wringer? Was the the Maytag automatic a step down? I don't understand.
Maytag engineer's couldn't figure this out also?
It's a washing machine | ||
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Post# 1102828 , Reply# 14 1/1/2021 at 21:57 (1,544 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn) |
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50Hz pulley | ||
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Post# 1102858 , Reply# 15 1/2/2021 at 05:38 (1,543 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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50 Hz Motor Pulleys Hi John, Would a 50Hz pulley shorten the life of a motor ?
It would be very unlikely to do much to the motor, the two things that are likely to ruin an older washer motor at this point are lubrication failures and moisture damage that degrades the motor windings, within reason working a motor a little harder does not do any real harm.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1102877 , Reply# 17 1/2/2021 at 09:39 (1,543 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Rapid-fire rollover on an underload situation reasonably doesn't clean as well as more leisurely rollover that provides items more time in the lower "action zone." Some would chastise that this load of four jeans needs more water (and faster agitation) ... it does not. Or, that this is an overload ... it's not. Or should been on high speed ... maybe, but not necessary, although max 16 mins wash time could been done instead of 14 mins. | ||
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Post# 1102891 , Reply# 18 1/2/2021 at 12:53 (1,543 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay) |
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Long Slow Stroking RULES (but men already know that) | ||
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Post# 1102895 , Reply# 19 1/2/2021 at 14:13 (1,543 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Direct-drive agitation | ||
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Post# 1102896 , Reply# 20 1/2/2021 at 14:36 (1,543 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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What I appreciate about my 2017 Speed Queen is that its long/slow agitation stroke makes it a truly vintage-style washer. Ditto for the spin-drain.
Having said that, mid-1960 GEs had the fastest agitation of any machine I'd seen up to that point. Don't know the actual strokes-per minute, but it had to be 100 or better. Frigidaires pulsated faster than that, but utilized the unique up-and-down pulsation rather than traditional agitation, so I didn't include it in the strokes-per-minute count. I had a middle-of-the-line 1989 KitchenAid as a daily driver for about sixth months. Its fastest speed was the same as the middle speed on Kenmores and Whirlpools, which had smaller fins on the agitator. Those dual-action agitators in direct drive machines could really turn over huge loads well. If I recall correctly, back in the 1980s CR looked for three complete turnovers of a maximum capacity load during the wash portion of the cycle. As Glenn mentioned, this allowed for more clothes-to-clothes friction and a little more time at the bottom of the tub, improving cleaning ability. This post was last edited 01/02/2021 at 17:48 | ||
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Post# 1103003 , Reply# 22 1/3/2021 at 12:08 (1,542 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn) |
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Combo52 | ||
| Post# 1103109 , Reply# 23 1/4/2021 at 10:42 (1,541 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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short vs. long? ^U^ ^u^ ioi IoI -_ While the long provides more torque, the short allows more r.p.m.'s without stressing the crank's as much. It's leverage over force. People tugging one behind each other can pull or push more than ones standing at angles from one another. | ||
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Post# 1130309 , Reply# 24 10/4/2021 at 04:32 (1,268 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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GE washers I have had GE washers with the short fast stroke which did a great job cleaning clothes. I especially noticed it in my post filter-flo pair. At full speed agitation, you could hear splashing of water, even with a full load of laundry. | ||
| Post# 1130360 , Reply# 27 10/4/2021 at 14:06 (1,268 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Maytags do well if you don’t overload them or use too much detergent and same rule applies to the Whirlpool belt drive washers and you can usually get away with using more detergent in a Whirlpool belt drive washer but if you really over do it you’ll suds lock the machine and I’ve had that happen before with my ‘63 Whirlpool when I first washed a small load of towels in it since it kicked up a bunch of suds.
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| Post# 1130362 , Reply# 28 10/4/2021 at 15:11 (1,268 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey) | ||
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or use too much detergent How much is too much? I've used 50% more than recommended dosages in an A712 and have very little sudsing. Although we are on private well water. | ||
| Post# 1130453 , Reply# 30 10/5/2021 at 12:54 (1,267 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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I’ve washed fairly large loads in my 1963 Whirlpool before but never even dare think about overloading that machine since I’ve literally seen no others like it around plus I never have issues with things not getting cleaned in that machine when I load it properly. When lightly loaded, the load turns over a good 12 to 14 times a minute which is similar-ish to the Frigidaires of the era.
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Post# 1197440 , Reply# 31 1/20/2024 at 02:00 (430 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA (considering moving to Temple, Texas)) |
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GE I remember when GE had that short/fast stroke agitation. They copied Whirlpool. | ||
| Post# 1197461 , Reply# 33 1/20/2024 at 11:29 (430 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho) | ||
As a person with OCD and Asperger's, I couldn't resist bypassing the lid switch on my DE806 washer. It was supposed to hold an 18 pound load, but when I did that, it would barely roll over once or twice. A load of sheets would hardly roll over at all, as sections of them would stay above the water level, especially during rinse. Jeans, which I wore for work, wouldn't roll over at all. I think it's true that the "Dependable Maytag" back then was due to the fact that it didn't have to work very hard.
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| Post# 1197478 , Reply# 34 1/20/2024 at 14:53 (430 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Reply #33
I believe the large capacity Maytags were rated for 14 pounds of laundry or so. Since I put the dual action Load Sensor in, easily can squeeze a bit more in without putting too much strain on the brake and transmission.
Here’s my Maytag A806 washing an extra large load of shorts with the dual action load sensor agitator. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Maytag85's LINK | ||
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