Thread Number: 87554  /  Tag: Vintage Dryers
DE606 "HOH" shut-off solenoid the book calls it 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1121177   6/23/2021 at 18:58 (1,038 days old) by hank_raster (Iowa City, IA)        

Hello Imperial Forum.


Imperial and automaticwasher.org helped me better understand and appreciate grandmas Maytag wringer washer which I use several times a year. Gulmite indeed.


Purpose of this posting is to facilitate more harmonious operation of one Maytag Automatic Dryer, model number DE606, aka Halo of Heat. There are many wonderful if not helpful (certainly are!) threads on this vintage appliance. I'm not doing a restoration or even a rustoration, I'm using this workhorse in the field. Believe what I'm saying.


DE606 with 'bar baffles' and also with 'SCR'. The dryer has always run hot so to speak and bakes my clothes if I don't catch it before they're overdone. I've never once heard the chime ring in operation. Had it apart several times this week, inspired by Imperial, and have yet to see what the service manual calls 'shut-off solenoid' do anything. It just sits there. In an automotive application I've seen power applied to similar solenoids and they react/fire/pop-off.


I may have misunderstood but I was under the impression that during operation the electronic control was sending a low voltage to the capacitor and that as long as wet or damp clothes were int he drum, they would complete the circuit across sets of baffle bars, dissipating or sending to ground the low voltage flow. Once the clothes were dry and no longer conducting electricity the low voltage would flow more to the capacitor where it builds up somewhere north of 70 volts and via the fluorescent switch? fire off a hit of electricity to the lifeless shut-off solenoid.


I've watched this capacitor on the digital meter and it consistently builds up to 86/87 volts I think before the little light flashes, voltage drops, but repeats the cycle. This was during operation, damp dry, yellow #12 disconnected from switch. Not shutting off in 7-17 seconds. I never waited very long as it gets too hot exhausting into the wash house with me. I would turn it to air fluff and press in and soon the air would be blowing cooler. No shut off tho.


The orange and red wires at shut-off solenoid "120V-60CY 860 321-3 1-74 Maytag 3-03350-1, where I'm assuming 1-74 is date code, the wires connected here are yielding 120-ish volts during operation and when the appliance is turned off by opening the door. Kinda thought maybe the solenoid only received power when called on to act although service manual may make some reference to being under power always?


The 3 prong 240 type plug is on its own circuit, one of two in the wash house/garage, and outside looks to be a heavy duty ground cable from power line connection terminating somewhere underground. I attached a wire to the back of the cabinet and ran that to plumbing in an attempt to eliminate that potential cause.


I've checked connections everywhere I think. Ran the tests for the control switch. Capacitor seems good since it builds and holds voltage. I've cleaned things - thermostats, contacts, pulleys, belts, copper band the brush rides on, the electronic control module contacts, peeked inside, etc. Admittedly I may have half-assed some of the checks but again the lifeless solenoid.


I put everything back together except the solenoid which is sitting here mocking me as I cannot find jack on the internets. I've seen a couple images of what looks like an older solenoid, and one the service manual mentions, Maytag 4-15, seems to sit at a different orientation to the chime hammer. Whirlpool OEM 400015 cross referenced but not finding anything on that either.


Don't have good info on shut off. Somehow I think it does shut off eventually but I've been setting a timer and checking on it every 20-30 minutes to keep clothes and house from burning. If I had my druthers I'd tune it to get bulky stuff nearly 100% dry and then either hang stuff or give it more time while I'm nearby to monitor it.


Seems like my next step is replacing this solenoid. The solenoid's two spade contacts ohm out 54-ish which as I understand it is proper, like right where it should be. Is this part, or another that will work or can be made to work available anywhere?


Happy to post photos if/as desired. Thanks


Be well




Post# 1121182 , Reply# 1   6/23/2021 at 20:07 (1,037 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

Hi Matt, Why would you replace the shut-off solenoid if it Ohms out OK, In my nearly 50 year career of working on these dryers I have never seen a bad solenoid on one of these dryers, it only is activated for a spilt second once per load.

 

There are several other possibilities that often keep these dryers from shutting off properly.

 

John L.
Post# 1121193 , Reply# 2   6/23/2021 at 22:04 (1,037 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Post# 1121201 , Reply# 3   6/24/2021 at 00:09 (1,037 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
Welcome to the forum, Matt.

It looks like you've done a significant amount of research and diagnosis already - far more than most who come here for help - so kudos for that.

Is it correct to say that, absent the solenoid working, you've been shutting off the dryer by opening the door?
The solenoid tug would only be brief... Is the linkage still in place that connects the solenoid to the tab on the back of the switch? And does that tab on the switch slide if you tug on it by hand (toward the solenoid)?

If it does move, does moving it while the dryer is running cause the dryer to turn off?



Post# 1121423 , Reply# 4   6/25/2021 at 23:14 (1,035 days old) by hank_raster (Iowa City, IA)        

John L. Thank you. No way to argue with that. Spent yesterday, last night, and today confident I could be startled by that bell as I tinkered with the dryer. Nothing yet.

Intending to run thru the de606 baffles control switch checks for and lack of continuity, I instead had the copper slip ring and felt off. I think I just wanted to take something apart. That impeller housing has some casting issues~I imagine the sharp pictured could penetrate felt and bleed off some volts? I filed some.

The switch checks did not indicate an issue. The book seems to say get another electronic control but also that 'it's not usually the electronic control'. I found this Asian Ladybettle and wonder if that (tstat?) can function as it is? Maybe unrelated but that part looks jacked. Cheers!

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Post# 1121427 , Reply# 5   6/25/2021 at 23:59 (1,035 days old) by hank_raster (Iowa City, IA)        

Qsd Dan thank you. Good helpful thread. I did disconnect one baffle. Initially looking it over thought of course these wires seem prone to short out just look how they're pulled tight against sharp edge metal. Finger says maybe not that sharp. Couldn't make out any breaks in the wires coating. That metal clip on the edge of drum seems especially brutal but to the wire yet I found no breaks, bare wire,etc. Appear to be insulators under bolts holding baffles but assuming the fastener isn't extending beyond baffle plastic and contacting either bar & connecting wire.

The felt seems to show witness marks of where the spade connector was riding, and where the band is joined. Thought I saw rust on mine and maybe all kinds of potentially conducting material gets in that felt since it seems to act as a bit of a drum seal as well?

I can't rule out something bleeding to ground but I probe the capacitor under way and it seems to build 86~ish volts before the light flashes and it drops to about 69 volts. Then rinses and repeats every eight seconds or so... sadly solenoid remains still. Started discharging the capacitor using an insulated wire and it makes a nice snap. Is this how tasers work? Yikes! I do have an unauthorized electric fence low in my hostas at home to keep the deer... well jury's still out. I think they like it.

Is the light firing and capacitor building up and down indication to look elsewhere?

Regards



Post# 1121428 , Reply# 6   6/26/2021 at 00:32 (1,035 days old) by hank_raster (Iowa City, IA)        

Appreciate the response LowE. Yes I'm opening the door but also now manipulating the linkage manually. Pleased to see it remain running once in Regular cycle after tripping linkage as it did shut off on its own after cool down. Had a touchless thermometer on it and 190F+ range then in the 165F range it stopped. No chime tho, no bell, no bueno.

In damp dry, with & without yellow #12 in the loop, manipulating the switch manually does stop it, yes. I reoriented my linkage to be right side up per another post. I don't 'live' with this dryer. Previous owner said it 'ran hot' and to beware. I've used it occasionally last couple decades and I have to think it was shutting off at some point. I do remember pulling clothes out thinking 'these are totally baked!'

The HOH and I will be parting ways soon but I'll be back in 3~4 weeks ready to try whatever tips tricks hacks and bodges are available. As mentioned in previous responses this evening the control switch seems to check out, I've got a ground wire to bottom of cabinet and the 240v looks to be grounded. Not sure how to check polarity or if that's in play with de606 baffle bar with scr.

Take care!

Post# 1121430 , Reply# 7   6/26/2021 at 01:42 (1,035 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Dryer temps should not exceed 160F, it sounds like the contacts in the cycling thermostat are shorted and the machine is running off of the high limit thermostat. The cooldown thermostat will shut off the motor after the solenoid engages, pulls the tab over on the switch, and temps drop down below 120F.

 

It wouldn't be a bad idea to verify wiring to the thermostats are correct.
Post# 1121435 , Reply# 8   6/26/2021 at 06:09 (1,035 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Bad EC

 combo52's profile picture

Hi Matt, your 3rd picture in your reply #4 is likely the problem, that 3 wire device is a triac or  [electronic relay ] it is what sends power to the solenoid to cause the dryer to shut off, if you are clever you may be able to replace just this triac or you need another EC.

 

John L.
Post# 1121448 , Reply# 9   6/26/2021 at 08:55 (1,035 days old) by hank_raster (Iowa City, IA)        
Pic slip 'nuther automatic



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Post# 1121487 , Reply# 10   6/26/2021 at 19:42 (1,034 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
>>Hi Matt, your 3rd picture in your reply #4 is likely the problem

Luckily the backside blew out instead of the front, so we can still read the part number.
Looks like the C103B, a 200V SCR, this particular one manufactured by GE. They are obsolete, but some replacements are still available.

Datasheet is on page 716 of this PDF:
media.searchelec.com//specshee/G...

Post# 1121491 , Reply# 11   6/26/2021 at 20:31 (1,034 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

It would be a good idea to test the other components on the board and make sure they're copasetic or you may blow the replacement SCR.

 

I don't see any new 303049 control boards on Ebay but there are a few used ones.
Post# 1121508 , Reply# 12   6/27/2021 at 06:51 (1,034 days old) by dnastrau (Lords Valley, PA)        
C103B SCR available

 This supply house has them:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO dnastrau's LINK
Post# 1122441 , Reply# 13   7/5/2021 at 18:29 (1,026 days old) by Hank_Raster (Iowa City, IA)        
Quest for Automatic Performance Sails Forward

 I've been home from the farm where the DE606 runs hot & doesn't stop, in the wash house there for a few days now. Realized I’ve got more Maytags than I thought. Disassembled, cleaned, & managed not to break anything on a Maytag WU300 dishwasher I use at home. Remembered mom (who generally doesn’t use appliances) has similar dishwasher but the WC version with cutting board top and she also has similar era washer & dryer (neither working) that I've not been able to acquire or been allowed to work on yet.

Thank you Dan re: dryer temps.

Used a harbor freight touch-less temp sensor and pointing it in the exhaust vent so unsure of accuracy (I think they like dark surfaces?) but seemed ballpark. Your description of possible shorted regulating/cycling t-stat fits with the hot clothes and finding continuity at room temp (problem being continued continuity beyond 160F something I wasn't testing). My notes indicate continuity for hi-limit and reg/cycle at room temperature and no continuity for cool-off at room temp. Cool off did seem to work after manipulating switch by hand during regular cycle.

Wires as expected: yellow-green & black-red for cool-off on the right, and black and green for the reg/cycle on the left. However, that t-stat label says BLACK 3-03XXX-7(or 1) and "GRN...something...PUR". Not the same forward slash format as the cool-off label but included a word I can't make out from photo. Could be "OR" or "AND"? The inexact match to black-green was curious. All other appearances same as cool-off.

If anyone can offer a part number for cycle t-stat it looks like Electronic Surplus (thank you dnastrau for the link!) may have similar temp switches in addition to their supply of C103B. If not I'll see the stat in 2-3 weeks and do some hunting based on it’s Maytag number.

combo52 and LowEfficiency thank you for the triac info. I don't have any soldering skills but I have managed to solder a couple things. Heat the part where it comes thru the backside of board until it can be pulled free. I’ll have to watch some vids and find something to practice on. At least a couple of the board components I might assume are working – capacitor voltage seems to rise & trigger the light consistently for example. Will have to read up on testing others.


Thanks again to all for the assist and advisement. Will try to have a plan and materials when I return to the dryer in 2-3 weeks.

Be well


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Post# 1124502 , Reply# 14   7/30/2021 at 17:39 (1,001 days old) by Hank_Raster (Iowa City, IA)        
Ma Bell

 Arrived at the farm with a few triads, an eBay electronic module in case soldering didn't go well, and a couple thermal stats similar to the regulating thermostat.

Not sure why the one says GRN and PUR unless thats used in a diff config or high temp stat?

Seemed tight but the newer one did not interfere with blower blades (at least turning by hand). Old and new stats would click open and closed in water over 160-170F. New one has longer business end but didn't seem to interfere with blower blades. Reinstalled the original parts.

Soldering seemed successful. Ignorant of any testing procedures for the other board parts, it looked ready so installed it.

Removed yellow wire #12 from back of the dial selector switch. Started the dryer on Regular cycle and started a timer.

Was taking some temps with touch-less (blower housing was something like 130-140F), kind of wondering why pulley wheels weren't running 100% straight when PANG the bell scared the crap out of me. What I wanted to hear and hadn't heard yet but yeah pretty loud when your head is right there.

That was at 10 minutes. Dryer continued, temps came down, maybe 3 minutes and it shut off all on its own! Damp Dry setting took longer than the prescribed 4-10 seconds but within maybe 90 seconds it shut off.

Ready to do more testing. Last session I took one of the baffles out of the circuit hoping that might not bake the clothes so much but using this dryer so infrequently the baking could've been from it not shutting off and I'm not remembering.

Feels great getting something working a little better if not properly repaired. Mom has Maytag washer & dryer of similar/same vintage. Maybe the dryer stopped heating and washer wouldn't drain - years ago. Need to take a closer look. Thanks again for guidance, parts sourcing, etc. Where do I send the check?


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