|
Thread Number: 87616
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
"Improved" Tide with Bleach alternative powder |
[Down to Last] |  |
Post# 1121786 6/29/2021 at 17:12 (1,043 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
||
I just saw this on Walmart's web site. Looked on Tide's web page and it still has the old box image. Appears to be adding more "bleaching" ingredients to encourage more to wash in cold water (ick)
View Full Size
| ||
|
| Post# 1121788 , Reply# 1 6/29/2021 at 17:20 (1,043 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
 | ||
|
Post# 1121797 , Reply# 2 6/29/2021 at 18:44 (1,043 days old) by HobartHero (New York) |
||
Original Tide Powder | ||
|
Post# 1121801 , Reply# 3 6/29/2021 at 19:10 (1,043 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
||
|
Why don't you list the ingredients or are they not listed on the website or P&G's? | ||
|
Post# 1121818 , Reply# 4 6/29/2021 at 23:25 (1,042 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 1121826 , Reply# 5 6/30/2021 at 02:12 (1,042 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
Likely P&G has increased ratio of sodium percarbonate and NBOS (bleach activator) to give TwB more ooph.
P&G has long since done this for versions of Ariel powder detergent sold in EU (under various names). Those "professional" and "antibacterial" versions contain a higher oxygen bleach to activator ratio than Tide. Ariel Professional: dgduupz79pcvd.cloudfront.net/doc... Regarding cold water and oxygen bleaching. There's cold water, and there's "cold" water. Long as we're discussing cold water as say 86 degrees F to about 90 degrees F, activated oxygen bleaching systems can work rather well. Sodium percarbonate will bleach very well at lower temperatures, but exposure time might need to be increased. In Japan cold water dominates for laundry, including whites. Yet in keeping with one of the cleanest cultures on earth, whites are often brilliant and colors quite bright. Japanese powder detergents long ago adopted oxygen bleach and activators. Like USA NBOS is favored over TAED. This likely has something to do with like North America Japan initially favored top loading washing machines. They may have had impellers instead of central beaters, but never the less. Ratio of oxygen bleach to activator is constant. This is because basically you're created a new chemical (peracetic acid). Peracetic acid is a far more powerful bleach than hydrogen peroxide, but is very unstable. When bleaching activator and oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate or perborate) are combined in water both are used up to create finite amount of peracetic acid. Thus merely adding more of one but not the other won't do much. This means adding additional sodium percarbonate or sodium perborate neat to a detergent that already has a bleaching activator and bleach won't do much. | ||
|
Post# 1121827 , Reply# 6 6/30/2021 at 03:03 (1,042 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
||
It wouldn`t surprise me if P&G had silently downgraded the formula of Tide with Bleach some time ago to make more profit for a while and for the sake of coming up with a new and improved formula which then can be aggressively advertised again.
They do it all the time and usually they do it in wise intervals in accordance with expected consumer tests. For instance the German FS Lenor had always had 5-15% cationic surfactants as the active softening ingredient listed on the bottle. Since a couple of weeks all the perfumy versions are <5% and the basic versions stayed the same. In a year or so they will ramp it up again and advertise it as "softer than ever before" or "now with 50% more softness". | ||
|
Post# 1121828 , Reply# 7 6/30/2021 at 03:25 (1,042 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Am actually rather shocked P&G is doing anything at all for TWB powder detergent.
In general one has to look quite hard and far to find powdered detergents from any brand in shops. Online things are a bit easier but since one detests Amazon with heat of many suns, that is out. Shelves of P&G detergent offerings on this side of pond long have been dominated by liquid and now those pod offerings. | ||
|
Post# 1121937 , Reply# 9 6/30/2021 at 19:05 (1,042 days old) by Geoff (Cape Coral, FL) |
||
Notice the asterisk and the fine print, | ||
| Post# 1122000 , Reply# 10 7/1/2021 at 07:56 (1,041 days old) by angus (Fairfield, CT.) | ||
|
Hope they have changed the fragrance. I used to use TWB powder for years, but the latest fragrance, even with careful dosing and rinsing just leaves an unpleasant scent in the finished laundry (I realize this is a clearly personal matter). | ||
|
Post# 1122005 , Reply# 11 7/1/2021 at 09:00 (1,041 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
"*Vs Tide Original Powder. Sounds like just marketing to me."
Likely because marketing is just what it is.... Tide "original" powder in the orange boxes is not same as TWB or now called Tide Plus Bleach. We shall have to wait for SDS and other information on this new Tide powder. Then can compare against TWB/TPB and or regular original Tide powder. | ||
| Post# 1122339 , Reply# 12 7/4/2021 at 18:37 (1,038 days old) by agiflow () | ||
|
Hi Geoff . Do you still have your KA washer . | ||
|
Post# 1174411 , Reply# 13 3/11/2023 at 14:15 (423 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Maddening Thing About This Version of TWB
Is as with so many other P&G offerings one can only purchase from certain vendors.
Walmart and Target have this new version of TWB (at least online), but Amazon does not apparently (go figure). Many local shops or supermarkets that do have Tide powdered detergent only have previous version, not this new one. It's same with so many other brans from P&G such as Downy; one has to hunt down what is wanted across various vendors. | ||
|
Post# 1174416 , Reply# 14 3/11/2023 at 14:58 (423 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
||
Laundress
That's true. For example I cannot seem to find some Persil liquids anywhere yet they are on the Persil (Canada) website. I did contact them and got the response to mention it to my local store managers. Right on it LOL As it is right now in every grocery store in town I've checked, from small ones to superstore sized, there might be 2 versions of Persil taking up no more that a foots width on two shelves while there are 3 shelves at least 20 feet long full of Tides and their lesser products. If I was a betting man, actually I am, I could see Persil disappearing from the Canadian market over the next few years if not sooner.
| ||
|
Post# 1174423 , Reply# 15 3/11/2023 at 15:46 (423 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Tide Coldwater "Free and Clean" is available up north, but not in USA.
tide.ca/en-ca/shop/type/liquid/c... | ||
|
Post# 1174539 , Reply# 17 3/12/2023 at 18:48 (422 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
||
Barry, I use Tide F&G. I've tried all their unscented varieties and the Ultra Stain Release (USR) free version only available at Target is by far the best version to get. The regular F&G version is great too but if you want the best cleaning, try the USR. I also really like their F&G powder. I use that regularly as well. I've had no issues with fading.
| ||
|
Post# 1174552 , Reply# 18 3/12/2023 at 19:44 (422 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 1175379 , Reply# 21 3/20/2023 at 22:39 (413 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
Has anyone  | ||
| Post# 1175517 , Reply# 23 3/21/2023 at 22:36 (412 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
Thanks Angus | ||
| Post# 1175695 , Reply# 24 3/23/2023 at 00:41 (411 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
Just happed to
look at my box of Tide original and noticed “sodium carbonate peroxide” and Bleach activator TAED.
So plain old Tide has some kind of bleaching action to it, otherwise why would it contain the TAED?
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 1175708 , Reply# 25 3/23/2023 at 02:06 (411 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
How interesting that P&G has switched to TAED bleach activator.
P&G poured tons of R&D into developing activated bleaching systems based upon sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate. NOBS is particularly suited to lower water temperatures and higher dilution washing historically found in USA laundering. This because obviously Americans historically used top loading washing machines with central beaters. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_non... www.nytimes.com/1993/10/1... Stan's box of Tide states it uses TAED plus sodium percarbonate as activated bleaching system. TAED long has been popular in Europe and American products for laundry and dishwasher that wanted an activated bleaching system but needed to get around P&G having patents for NOBS systems sewn up. Late as 2015 TWB contained NOBS: content.oppictures.com/Master_Im... So why the switch? Will have to investigate. | ||
|
Post# 1175711 , Reply# 26 3/23/2023 at 02:16 (411 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
@Stan
Like regular Persil in Europe to best one one's knowledge most if not all versions of Tide powdered detergent contain oxygen bleach and an activator. Question is how far up the ingredient list they are which indicates how powerful the bleaching system is overall. TWB and Tide "Turbo HE" powders have sodium peroxide carbonate and NOBS in top six ingredients. www.whatsinproducts.com/t..."p1">Tide%20Plus%20Bleach%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/20/2015/p>/16-030-758 www.whatsinproducts.com/types/ty..."p1">Tide%20HE%20Turbo%20Clean%20Laundry%20Detergent%20Powder,%20Original-04/17/2015/p>/16-030-749 But notice TWB has higher concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator than Tide "HE Turbo" powder. Tide "Ultra Oxi" powder also has high concentrations of oxygen bleach and activator. www.whatsinproducts.com/t..."p1">Tide%20Ultra%20OXI%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-09/29/2017/p>/16-033-624 Tide "Free and Gentle" powder has just small amount of oxygen bleach, but no activator. www.whatsinproducts.com/t..."p1">Tide%20Free%20and%20Gentle%20Powder%20Laundry%20Detergent-04/20/2015-1/p>/16-033-625 | ||
|
Post# 1175713 , Reply# 27 3/23/2023 at 02:29 (411 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Knew read something awhile back....
P&G was going to terminate their agreement with supplier of NOBS (FutureFuels), Corp back in 2015. Two sides came to an later agreement and extended things until 2018.
www.happi.com/contents/vi... www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news... What things came down to is something we all here long have known; sales of powdered laundry and automatic dishwashing detergents have declined, a lot. P&G like Henkel, and Lever Bros largely has liquid/gel format products for laundry and automatic dishwashing, none of which of course can have oxygen bleach in any form. No oxygen bleach then no activator is needed. P&G like Henkel, Lever Bros and some others still do offer powdered laundry detergents, boosters, and rest. There you still find oxygen bleaching systems and usually activators (at TOL and MOL range at least). | ||
| Post# 1175715 , Reply# 28 3/23/2023 at 03:00 (411 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
Dear
I’m so glad this caught your attention as I figured you’d be one that would get to the bottom of it.
My interpretation is..plain old Tide ain’t so bad. Plus the Tide original dose not have a horrid scent. Maybe Angus can post a side pic showing ingredients of the new Tide version. So we can at least see order of ingredient placement ect | ||
| Post# 1175758 , Reply# 29 3/23/2023 at 14:42 (411 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
|
I have almost gone through a 15 pound box of Tide Ultra Oxi powder and can highly recommend it for use, at least in a top loader. It's one of the very few detergents I like so far since I've been trying different brands.
It cleans well in all temps (85F, 120F, 160F), breaks down very fast in cooler (85F) temps, haven't noticed any residue even on black clothing but I use top loaders that rinse very well. No noticeable fading, which was a big concern. Fragrance is very light to almost undetectable. It has trumped a few of their liquids I have tried and doesn't leave a horrific scent.
This will most likely become the daily driver as long as they don't mess around with the formula and f- it up or discontinue it, both of which P&G is famous for. This post was last edited 03/23/2023 at 20:15 | ||
| Post# 1175768 , Reply# 30 3/23/2023 at 17:28 (411 days old) by volvoman (West Windsor, NJ) | ||
|
@ qsd-dan When you say that the fragrance is light and almost undetectable, please tell me that it's not that same, godawful sickly sweet scent that now passes for Tide original powder. I purchased a small box of that variety several months ago, and couldn't wait to be finished with it, because the scent was too cloying. | ||
| Post# 1175791 , Reply# 31 3/23/2023 at 20:14 (411 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
|
| ||
| Post# 1175819 , Reply# 32 3/24/2023 at 01:28 (410 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
Ive never seen this before
Has anyone used this?
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 1175822 , Reply# 33 3/24/2023 at 01:49 (410 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
I have
Surprise, surprise.
Well not that exact incarnation but earlier versions of Tide "boost" are in my stash. www.walmart.com/ip/Tide-B... https://www.ebay.com/itm/403900085730... Looking at price seller is getting on fleaPay may be sitting on a gold mine. *LOL* Both versions work well enough for activated oxygen bleaching with a "boost" of enzymes. Originally Tide marketed these pods for those using liquid detergents which do not contain bleaching agents. Only issue one is common to pods in general, irritating habit of sometimes not fully dissolving and leaving a gunky stuck on mess on items of wash. If not removed before things go into dryer things only get worse. | ||
|
Post# 1175832 , Reply# 34 3/24/2023 at 07:41 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
 I use Tide with Bleach powder as one of my detergents. I noticed that the box says it has 50% more bleach power versus Tide Original.
In Europe, the percentage of bleach is stated on the packaging (including P&G detergents) but this is not the case in the USA. So I emailed Tide a couple of years ago asking what the concentration of oxygen bleach is in Tide with Bleach powder and I was told that they couldn't tell me as it's a secret.
So it's interesting to see the links that Launderess has posted, which say that regular Tide powder contains 1-5% bleach and Tide with Bleach powder 5-10% bleach. Some powders in Europe have 5-10% while others have more like 15-30%.
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 1175833 , Reply# 35 3/24/2023 at 07:43 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
The stores in Palm Springs do still carry a reasonable selection of powders. But I've heard people elsewhere in the US say that they have difficulty finding powders in their area.
I snapped this photo just over a year ago in my local supermarket:
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 1175834 , Reply# 36 3/24/2023 at 08:16 (410 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Between 5% to 20% seems common for European powder detergents with bleach.
issuu.com/itq94/docs/442004_pers... | ||
|
Post# 1175838 , Reply# 37 3/24/2023 at 11:06 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
Looking more closely at the listed ingredients for TWB in Launderess' link, as well as 5-10% sodium carbonate peroxide, I now see that it also lists sodium percarbonate but doesn't give a percentage. So I'm not sure what to make of that -- aren't they the same thing anyway?
I also wanted to say that my interpretation of the "50% more bleach power than Tide Original" suggests to me that there may well have been absolutely no change whatsoever to the bleach content of Tide with Bleach powder at any point. If anything has actually changed, it's probably that the bleach has been reduced in Tide Original but OTOH maybe nothing has changed and it's just a comparison of the two different products.
Mark | ||
|
Post# 1175839 , Reply# 38 3/24/2023 at 11:18 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
while others have more like 15-30%. | ||
|
Post# 1175847 , Reply# 39 3/24/2023 at 12:57 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
Hi Bob. I think some European counties, such as the UK, Germany and Sweden have a history of washing at high temps and using detergents with oxygen bleach, which has been "activated" oxygen bleach for decades. Adding chlorine bleach is almost unknown. So yes, I suppose the use of high temps with oxy bleach was traditional, especially before the bleach was "activated" to make it effective at lower temps.
While other countries such as Spain, the USA and Italy have a history of washing at lower temps and adding chlorine bleach. Washing machines in Spain traditionally had chlorine bleach dispensers that were not usually present on the UK versions.
As you can see from this photo I took when I lived in Spain, there was plenty of choice in the laundry section when it came to chlorine bleach for the washing machine:
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 1175848 , Reply# 40 3/24/2023 at 13:06 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
Mark, thank you. I'm in the extreme miniscue minority, I do not use LCB. I prefer using the highest temp I can get on my US washer because those higher temps coupld with Tide w/bleach and/or Biz Powder yield incedible results that just are achieveable with ordinary U.S washing methods. The first time I tried the higher temps (along with a profile type wash profile), I felt like I'd emerged from the Dark Ages to enlightment.
| ||
|
Post# 1175851 , Reply# 41 3/24/2023 at 13:23 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
Ha ha yep I've seen many of your posts over the years and I knew you'd seen the light LOL. Funny you should mention Biz -- I have never tried it but I'd like to give it a go for use during the soak cycle of my TLs. Do you like Biz? All my machines in the US are TLs but I am hoping to find a Maytag Neptune with a heater (I know the Neptune heating has limitations).
Happy washing! Mark | ||
|
Post# 1175852 , Reply# 42 3/24/2023 at 13:30 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 1175858 , Reply# 43 3/24/2023 at 14:13 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
Biz versus Tide w/Bleach Thanks for the recommendation, Bob. I'll give powdered Biz a whirl.
Sorry if this is too much of a subject drift (perhaps it needs a separate thread?) but would Biz be effective without detergent in the automatic soaks of my TLs that are typically around 20 min? Or does it need a longer contact time and higher concentration to really do anything, i.e. best used in a bucket overnight etc? How did you put it to work in your Lady Shread? I was thinking of using it as a general pre soak for whites in place of TWB or Tide liquid. It seems to have 5 enzymes but no bleach activator anymore. I have softened water. | ||
|
Post# 1175860 , Reply# 44 3/24/2023 at 14:36 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 1175861 , Reply# 45 3/24/2023 at 14:42 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 1175863 , Reply# 46 3/24/2023 at 15:59 (410 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
When using powdered detergents | ||
|
Post# 1175865 , Reply# 47 3/24/2023 at 16:03 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
Mark, I just had a thought that hadn't occurred to me until now. October 2001 I was diagnosed with diverticulosis via a massive GI bleed which I almost died again In the ensuing years I had others but March 2015 I exprienced another massive bleed in which I almost died. The friend I was visiting at the time, I'd already shared the wonders of Biz with him. He later told me that Biz literally saved all the towels and bed linens, otherw wise he would have thrown them all away because they were stained so badly.
| ||
|
Post# 1175868 , Reply# 48 3/24/2023 at 16:34 (410 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
||
|
Oh gosh, Bob, I'm sorry to hear that happened and I'm pleased to know you're OK. It's great that you introduced your friend to Biz but who could have imagined that you would then go on to have a near-death experience that would prove your point about Biz! So pleased to hear that you (and the towels/linens!) made it. | ||
|
Post# 1175869 , Reply# 49 3/24/2023 at 16:57 (410 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 1175877 , Reply# 50 3/24/2023 at 18:23 (410 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Original product from P&G contained enzymes and activated oxygen bleach. www.whatsinproducts.com/t..."color:#a9a9a9;">BIZ%20Non%20chlorine%20Bleach-Old%20Product/span>/16-003-096 After P&G spun it off to Redmond Brands latter was basically selling original product still made by P&G. That soon ended and formula went through various changes. bizstainfighter.com/biz-stain-fi... www.ewg.org/guides/cleane... Am working through a case of coin vend size old school Biz powder. Can only use it for soaking or when washing in top loading washer as it creates too much suds in front loading machines. Stuff is difficult to rinse as well but again that may have to do with using in anything else but high dilution situations. | ||
|
Post# 1175882 , Reply# 51 3/24/2023 at 19:45 (410 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 1175887 , Reply# 52 3/24/2023 at 20:37 (410 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Problem with Biz powder is it faced competition from TWB along with other powdered detergent or laundry boosters that also have activated bleaching systems.
P&G originally launched their early activated bleaching oxygen bleaching system in Biz and Oxydol, things were then moved over to Tide and perfected. Tide powdered detergent at the time was USA market leader. With advent of TWB and similar products also came less need for separate pre soaker products. Activated bleaching system in TWB also made Oxydol redundant and in end both products were dropped by P&G. Biz and Oxydol are still around of course since their brand names were sold by P&G. Neither are a patch on what they were under P&G heyday. Biz went from an enzyme based/activated oxygen bleach pre soaker to a detergent "booster" all fabric bleach/stain remover. Oxydol with bleach! | ||
|
Post# 1175900 , Reply# 53 3/24/2023 at 22:40 (409 days old) by appnut (TX) |
||
|
| ||
| Post# 1181895 , Reply# 54 6/6/2023 at 02:10 (336 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
|
So I bought this new Tide plus
and have used almost half the box.
And frankly on a load of whites with a hot wash..I don’t see much of difference between this and regular powdered Tide..despite the 50% more bleach? Scent seems to be the same as reg Tide too. Not sweet or flowery, just a slight chemical smell. (Not offensive) What I do notice with this new version and with Reg Tide for that matter .. is that if I ad about 2 TBLS of pure Sodium percarbonate..there’s a difference in whiteness. Technically I don’t think adding pure sodium percarbonate is supposed to make a too much of a difference (without a activator) but for me..Well I see a difference ? Talk amongst yourselves. | ||
|
Post# 1182061 , Reply# 55 6/7/2023 at 23:01 (334 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
IIRC TWB no longer has an activated oxygen bleaching system, just plain old sodium percarbonate. If correct then yes, adding extra oxygen bleach may give better results.
With activated bleaching systems (TAED or NBOS) sodium percarbonate or perborate in fixed ratio with activator produces peracetic acid. That substance is what provides bleaching and sanitation qualities. However it is a fixed ratio; X amount of oxygen bleach will react with Y amount of activator to produce Z amount of peracetic acid. Adding more oxygen bleach doesn't do much if anything because there isn't any free activator for it to react. | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
