Thread Number: 87660  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Kenmore belt drive issues
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Post# 1122249   7/3/2021 at 17:50 (1,027 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Hello, new here but have been into appliances for a long while. I have worked on vintage belt drives before but this one is stumping me. Just picked up this 82 Kenmore limited edition bd for $50. Machine is in amazing condition. I haven’t water tested it yet, but I’ve noticed that the agitator is extremely hard to turn. And sometimes the machine needs a hand in getting going for the spin cycle. And help would gladly be appreciated!

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Post# 1122251 , Reply# 1   7/3/2021 at 18:32 (1,027 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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Congrats that’s a great washer. My suggestion would be to tip it towards the front or lay it on its front on a blanket for a short period of time to see if water comes out of the gearcase. The mid eighties machines had a bad habit of the spin tube seal failing and filling the gearcase with water.

Post# 1122253 , Reply# 2   7/3/2021 at 19:05 (1,027 days old) by syber_collie (Utah, USA)        
fluid doesn't look like its had water mixed in

I have checks the gearcase for oil, surprisingly it has some (most of the bd's I get are bone dry). I was planning on pulling the gearcase out to see f the shaft is still stiff without being in the pin tube. I've actually never had to pull a gearcase out of a bd so its a bit nerve racking but it doesn't seem too bad. i am wondering if there is a way I could make it agitate empty, with the electronic controls.

Post# 1122256 , Reply# 3   7/3/2021 at 19:24 (1,027 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
You should be able to because the water level switch is not electronic.

Post# 1122257 , Reply# 4   7/3/2021 at 19:46 (1,027 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

How so then? I’ve only ever done it through machines with the suds return

Post# 1122258 , Reply# 5   7/3/2021 at 20:02 (1,027 days old) by washdaddy (Baltimore)        

you might check inside the console on the top of the machine to see if there is a tech sheet for trouble checking the washer. Don't know if it came with one or if it would still be there if it did. But it's worth at least checking. I had the DD version with an electronic console and I discovered paperwork in the console. It gave you instructions for how to check all the functions on the machine. I could make the washer do anything I wanted. It was fun to be able an check all the machines different functions.

Post# 1122261 , Reply# 6   7/3/2021 at 20:28 (1,027 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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To me the simplest way is to use a spare pressure switch tubing. With the washer unplugged remove the back panel on the console. Remove the tubing connected to the switch. Connect the spare to the switch. Plug the washer in and set to fill. Slightly blow a steady pressure into the tube. When the switch clicks the machine should start agitating. Unplug after this test and don’t forget to reconnect the tubing from the washer after removing the spare.

Post# 1122265 , Reply# 7   7/3/2021 at 20:42 (1,027 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

I will have to check that, I also owned an electronic dd and it did have the paper for diagnostics in the console.

Post# 1122271 , Reply# 8   7/3/2021 at 21:28 (1,027 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Will have to try the tube method, hopefully there is some form of diagnostics though

Post# 1122462 , Reply# 9   7/5/2021 at 22:18 (1,025 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
Quick update

Got the machine to agitate, seems like the tube and agitator shaft are kind of stuck together. Any thoughts?

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Post# 1122503 , Reply# 10   7/6/2021 at 11:34 (1,024 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
seems like the shafts need cleaned and oiled.....at least thats where I would start...

Post# 1122505 , Reply# 11   7/6/2021 at 11:43 (1,024 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Wash Basket Moves Somewhat When Agitating

combo52's profile picture

This may or may not be a problem, hook up the washer to water and run at least a dozen loads through it and see if there are any other issues before you start tearing the washer apart because there may be other issues and you probably only want to tear it apart once.

 

I have this same pair in black in my 2nd home.

 

John L.


Post# 1122694 , Reply# 12   7/8/2021 at 12:31 (1,022 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Thanks for all the advice, I still have yet to run water through it yet so I’ll have to see. Hopefully all goes well. I’ve had a belt drive in the past that had a somewhat stiff agitator shaft, but nothing like this. I’ll keep you updated for when I run water through it.

Post# 1123085 , Reply# 13   7/12/2021 at 13:54 (1,018 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
More kenmore

So I did the machines first run with water, no leaks but this issue is still present, it started the first spin fine but if I stopped it and started it again it’d do this, agitator is still stiff. Any help appreciated!

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Post# 1123087 , Reply# 14   7/12/2021 at 14:40 (1,018 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
most likely you need spin clutch replacement...

and the shafts are going to need some lubrication....


Post# 1123124 , Reply# 15   7/12/2021 at 21:56 (1,018 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
More spin issue information

I’ve discovered more of these oddball symptoms in this video. Honestly kinda baffling me at this point.

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Post# 1123128 , Reply# 16   7/12/2021 at 22:44 (1,018 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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The agitator shaft needs some grease or oil on it, and a new spin clutch and that should solve the issues you are having with it.

Post# 1123135 , Reply# 17   7/13/2021 at 00:18 (1,018 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

I’m tempted to try to grease the shaft first and see how that goes as finding a clutch at the moment is fairly hard. What’s the best grease to use for these shafts?

Post# 1123137 , Reply# 18   7/13/2021 at 01:25 (1,018 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Zoom Spout Oil...

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Post# 1123156 , Reply# 19   7/13/2021 at 12:47 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Thanks! I’ll most likely be working on it next week so I’ll keep yalls updated once I get to that point

Post# 1123161 , Reply# 20   7/13/2021 at 13:43 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Also any more information on these washers would be appreciated as I haven’t even been able to find a picture of another black one. I’ve seen a couple almond ones on here but no black ones. I wish I had the matching dryer but unfortunately the dryer it was paired with was just a 5-10 year old Kenmore gas dryer.

Post# 1123165 , Reply# 21   7/13/2021 at 14:58 (1,017 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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the color really has nothing to do with the inner workings...

outside of the Digital Console, and added dispensers.....you have a standard belt drive 'wigwag' base unit....

one no different than the other...all FSP/Whirlpool/Kenmore design that ran for upwards of 30+ years...

many times we have taken a top unit, and switched it over to another base unit...all parts aligned right up

that was sort of a nice thing back then, no matter what model/style/options/colors....you got a standard heavy duty base unit inner workings equal across the board...whether it was BOL or TOL


Post# 1123168 , Reply# 22   7/13/2021 at 15:45 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Yeah most of the belt drives I’ve picked up are the standard center knob faux wood topped Kenmore’s. I had a couple of those last year. I also currently have a whirlpool convertible set (actually my 2nd set)

But when I saw the listing for this the color is what caught my eye, so I went and grabbed it for only $50. It’s honestly one of the neatest washers I’ve had and the cleanest belt drive internally.

Once I get the spin issue sorted I’m hopeful to get some cycle videos of it as I can’t even find any full cycle videos for one of these


Post# 1123174 , Reply# 23   7/13/2021 at 17:17 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
Welp

So I made an attempt to remove the transmission today because I found some time. Can’t seem to get it out as the shaft seems seized in the spin tube

So I reassembled the machine but I found these washer/nuts in the bottom of the cabinet, any ideas where they go?


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Post# 1123179 , Reply# 24   7/13/2021 at 18:08 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
Update

Rechecked my diagram and they are the spin clutch washers. Placed them back and the machine works as it did before. Unless I missed something that transmission assembly is really stuck in there. On the bright side I got to clean it up a bit more :p

Post# 1123182 , Reply# 25   7/13/2021 at 18:15 (1,017 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Those washers that are in the shape of a nut are for the clutch yoke and the clutch yoke isn’t like the older belt drive washers like my ‘63 since they aren’t easily adjustable without having to remove the transmission bolts.

Post# 1123184 , Reply# 26   7/13/2021 at 18:36 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

Yeah I got them back in after reading through the guide I found again. I didn’t noticed them on the yoke before until I found them in the cabinet. Will have to try again sometime in the future to remove the transmission again. Probably gonna do another water test to see if the problem repeats again.

Post# 1123186 , Reply# 27   7/13/2021 at 19:12 (1,017 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

So here is it spinning after I messed with it, thought this might be important to show

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Post# 1123620 , Reply# 28   7/19/2021 at 07:04 (1,011 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
About the belt drive washers

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I was wondering if anyone knew of the transition at Whirlpool from the belt drive washers to the direct drive. I guess John would know. I know the DD came out first in 1981 for the narrow machines but were Kenmores the first version? The DD was phased in gradually and I kind of wonder why. I do know that the Limited Edition was about the last of the belt drives, mom and I looked at it but $1500 was too much for the pair. We ended up with one in almond maybe about the 80 series. The saleslady said the LE had a steel tub and the other a polypropylene tub. Were the DD lower priced machines. I think I read on here that toward the end of BD production, Whirlpool stockpiled some of the last BD machines in case people were not happy with the DD units. Any truth to that?

Oh and Darth Vader needs his washer back when you're done with it, he would like the dryer too.


Post# 1123624 , Reply# 29   7/19/2021 at 07:29 (1,011 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Transition From BD Washers To The DD Machines

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Both WP and KM had a DD machine in the end of 1981, 

 

Some of the many reasons that the change was made of course was cost of manufacturing, the DD machine has 60 less parts and is about 70 pounds lighter.

 

The DD machines from the very start were more reliable, they had almost 1/2 the warranty call rate in the first year alone.

 

The DD machines were far easier to do major repairs on, this was a big challenge for the laundry industry to be able to have washers that could still have major repairs done in the customers home at an affordable cost to keep manufactures from having to replace machines completely or lose their shirt if it needed repair.

 

The DD washers quickly became the only TL washer that was easy to replace ANY part on in less that  1/2 hour in the home, it was estimated by WP that after 10 years of DD washers being in the field that several thousand less repair technicians would be needed nationwide.

 

Overall the DD washers were a huge success with well over 100 million being produced over their 36 year run 1981-2017, but it was time to move on. [ I think I am safe in saying that the DD machines were the most produced TL automatics ever even far surpassing  MT  Helical Drive machines produced 1956-2006 .

 

The design of the DD machines did not lend itself to the faster spin speeds needed or much lower water and electricity use that is needed if the world is to have any chance of survival to the year 2200, the savings in water and energy in the last decade alone have been enormous and necessary.

 

John L.


Post# 1123704 , Reply# 30   7/19/2021 at 22:17 (1,011 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        
Quick Kenmore update…

Currently still on the hunt for a clutch, been searching for the past couple weeks and haven’t found one yet, also been looking for a parts machine but currently there aren’t any belt drives for sale locally. Still have to figure out how to remove the transmission, I follow everything online I found (shifting into spin, positioning the small ball facing up etc) but I still can’t get it to slide out, I’ve actually never pulled a belt drive transmission before as I’ve never had one that had to have it fully removed. Any help is appreciated

Post# 1123705 , Reply# 31   7/19/2021 at 22:40 (1,011 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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One thing I do is make sure the gearcase is shifted into agitate mode by manually moving the cam bar. This helps because it allows the agitator shaft to move with the gearcase while you are moving it side to side while pulling down. If it’s not wanting to be removed easily chances of water seepage down the spin tube and possibly the bearings is likely. With the wash basket and drive block removed the basket drive assembly should also be easy to remove unless there is rust/bearing issues due to water being where it shouldn’t.

Post# 1123707 , Reply# 32   7/19/2021 at 23:51 (1,011 days old) by MaytagNeptune (FireAlarmTechGuy4444 on YouTube. Interlochen MI)        
agitation problems

maytagneptune's profile picture
as it agitates it looks like one of those modern crappy VMW Kenmores that have a mere lifespan of 3 years.

Post# 1123923 , Reply# 33   7/23/2021 at 15:13 (1,007 days old) by Syber_Collie (Utah, USA)        

I did have the machine in agitation so I could rotate the shaft to get the ball on top. Still didn’t want to come out easily. May have to disassemble the tub assembly more then to get the drive out


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