Thread Number: 89660  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele WWG360 and Bosch
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Post# 1142650   2/19/2022 at 23:58 (794 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

Hello,

I am trying to figure something out that I can not find for the life of me on google.

In the country I live... I can get a Miele WWG360 Front loader for $2600. It is a 9kg washer, has single wash function and quick power wash 2.0 (amongst other things).

if I option for a Miele for $2250 in their 8kg range... they come with quick power wash but no single wash and if I go with a $1700 miele 8kg (the lowest 8kg machine they got) it hasn't got quick power was or single wash.

Anyway - I spoke to miele, If i want to wash 2 shirts only or a handful of socks only, or 1 single towel or anything that is basically a handful for the 1kg load... the miele machine will not work unless I select 'single wash'.

So that means I can not wash a handful of items in a Miele properly unless I buy the WWG360 for $2600 which has the 'single wash' feature.

The quick power wash lets you do 4kg in under 50min.

So after I spend $2600 I can wash 1kg (single wash), 4kg (quick power)and the regular 9kg loads.

Now -

if I buy a Bosch 8 series machine... I can pick up a decent 9kg one for $1550. It has Idos etc (which I wouldn't even use) or I can get a 10kg one for under $1700. Point is the Bosch is $1000 cheaper. Bosch "active water plus" technology means if I put 1kg of washing in, it will wash the 1kg just as effectively as a full load.

With Miele the machine wont work unless you have that single wash feature which means with Miele you have to spend $2600 to be able to wash 1kg load, with the Bosch I could do it for $1600 since all their machines can wash any load size and don't need a specific function to work for that load size.

So what I am trying to figure out is...

I put 2 shirts in the bosch, I put 2 shirts in the Miele.

With the Miele I put it on single wash, and it costs me $2600.
With the Bosch, it just works on regular setting and it costs me $1600.

What exactly is going to be the different besides the $1000 extra that I have to spend on Miele to be able to do a 1kg load?

Money wise I can buy either... just trying to figure out why spend $1000 more on a miele to 'be able to wash 1kg' when a Bosch can wash 1kg or 10kg or anything inbetween for less than $1700 and both are made in Germany.

Was miele just too dumb to make their machines work with any load and so they had to create a specific function for it which is only available on the higher end Miele's? Since the company is solid and creates top quality appliances, then I have to assume they weren't dumb in designing in that way... so I have to ask how is it different/better than the Bosch in that regard? Or it isnt...

And anything else to keep in mind 'besides' this one point between the 2?

Any feedback?
Thanks





Post# 1142660 , Reply# 1   2/20/2022 at 07:42 (794 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
A Miele won't wash a few items unless it has Single Wash, according to their hotline? Must be another uninformed rep or they are being told to turn customer calls into sales pitches.

Either way, no washer will wash a small load as efficiently as a full load; neither Miele, nor Bosch. Miele might have the edge over Bosch when it comes to efficiency washing small loads. That being said, you'll probably have to wash several lifetimes of mini-loads to recoup the significantly higher purchase price through energy and water saved.


Post# 1142664 , Reply# 2   2/20/2022 at 08:19 (794 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Goodness, is that a sales trick?

I fully agree with Alexander, you can wash any size of load in both the Miele and the Bosch. It will cost a bit more for a small load, but because these machines are frugal with water anyway, I don't think you will go broke over that if you can afford such a machine.


Post# 1142683 , Reply# 3   2/20/2022 at 15:16 (793 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

SingleWash (and SingleDry, for that matter) do improve things a lot.
But not really a must have.

My first Miele had SingleWash and I used it maybe 3 times.
My current machine dosen't have it and I don't miss it.



Even with minimal load, a W1 uses between 20-30l for wash and 2 rinses. The shortest Cotton cycle still clocks in at 1:40ish.

SingleWash brings that down to 8-12l when I used it last, brings the time down to under an hour.
That's savings, substantial ones, but not really something worth upgrading for soley.

The upper 9kg model that has it probably has the bigger display, thus more cycles, temp selections, more options.
Maybe even 1600rpm versus 1400rpm.


Post# 1142685 , Reply# 4   2/20/2022 at 16:54 (793 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

Thanks.

The WWG360 has single wash and quick power wash $2600 - 9kg.
The WWG320 doesnt have single wash, but does have quick power wash $2250 - 8kg.

I figured at least between these 2, the cost is only $350 more to have the 'single wash' function. Since it is 2500+/- either way, then for the extra $350 for a machine that will be with us for over 5+ years (potentially 10 if it lasts) - it wouldn't really be worth spending $2250 (save $350) and not have that feature over the 10 years of owning the machine when that is something I could use over the lifetime of the machine.

To go down to a different 8kg washer miele for $1650 - I don't get quick power wash or single wash.

I think the quick power wash is something we want due to the nature of how it works and reduces time...

So its either the 8kg for $2250 with no single wash, or get the extra single wash for additional $350.

So cost wise there, investment wise... seems its only worth getting the $2600 one.

The miele experience centre told me the miele wont work with 2 shirts in it without 'single wash' because the display will say "error" due to not being enough weight in the machine to recognize. I could use the Eco 20 option, that will recognize 1kg, but it only washes for 20min and is more designed to refresh clothes than it is to wash it properly. The single wash will actually wash clothes properly at that 1kg.

Yes the Mieles have load sensing to detect how much weight is in a machine etc but eg: you can't put 9kg in the 9kg machine and use "quick power wash" - That only works on a max 4 or 4.5kg, so when the machine detects more weight than that, that setting is not selectable. Same with the 1kg, you put 1kg in (1 towel, or 2 shirts) and the machine wont actually start unless you got the single wash feature as that is the only function that works on that low weight.

Bosch however claims that it will wash 1kg just as effectively as 9kg because its designed to sense 1kg all the way through to its max load and use water etc accordingly to the weight it has. No 'single wash' thing neccesary as its built to work with any load.

Thats why I was wondering about that... if both are more or less the same in terms of that function... which drum is gentler on clothes?

I essentially only have 100% cotton everything, I don't have polyester, microfibre etc and no cotton blends that are 30/70 poly/cotton or anything like that, its all 100% cotton and I have expensive bed linen (Belgium linen) queen sheets/quilt cover etc, organic 100% cotton towels and yeah. I wanted a machine that wont de-thread the linen over time as I have seen cheaper washing machines do, a thread gets in the hole of the drum and over time the drum just pulls strands out of material.

Also with the work doing, I am expecting to use the machine every 2nd day for towels. So I just wanted something thats built reliable, will last, gentle on material so I don't damage my linen sheets. They alone cost over $500 for 1 set, so cheaping out on a washing machine to ruin the sheets - the sheets will end up costing more than the machine to replace... so.... Aside from that single wash vs Bosch automatically washing all load sizes... how does a Miele compare to a Bosch in terms of longevity, cleaning performance, etc? Is the miele worth the extra or are they pretty much the same and Mieles just charging extra for its name, not the quality etc?

What would you do given the above?


Post# 1142692 , Reply# 5   2/20/2022 at 18:33 (793 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
The miele experience centre told me the miele wont work with 2 shirts in it [...] the display will say "error"

So that's how well Miele sales employees are trained these days? 🤦🏻‍♂️ Even my profile pic Dreamspace washer says 1 to 11 kg on the control panel. Must be a miracle machine.

All I can think of is that a single heavy item can lead to issues during the spin cycle, which is the case with every washer.

As for Bosch or Miele. Well, the current BSH washers seem to be generally praised by all the washer enthusiasts on YouTube, some of them having owned a W1 before. The Mieles are getting some mixed reviews by them - I would suppose partially because people are very critical of a washer at that price point. From memory, I recall people disliking the programming of some cycles, e.g. Delicates defaulting to Spin & Spray.


Post# 1142697 , Reply# 6   2/20/2022 at 22:17 (793 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
What features are important to you?

mielerod69's profile picture
The training the Miele salespeople get today is woeful, to say the least!

You really break down what is important to you. Is it capacity, time, number of options, gentle laundry care?

If time is important to you, then QuickPowerWash is good for everyday loads where you can wash them in under an hour. I use QPW without the quick option which allows you to wash up to 5 kg in about 1 hour 15 minutes and I use this for towels with good results. Express 20 which is fine for small loads and you can extend the time to 30 minutes without the quick function. Single wash sounds good on paper and allows you to wash again in a short time. I have seen on YT that if you load the machine with more than 1 kg and select single wash, the machine will use more water and vary the wash cycle.
Capacity is again important if you tend to wash large loads often. The difference between an 8 and 9 kg machine is two bath towels. Most people think they are washing full loads when in reality they are washing half the claimed capacity of the machine.
I tend to wash bedlinen on the Minimum Iron program at 60 degrees and never had any of my bedlinens damaged, even Frette bed linen.
Something you haven't mentioned is the steam function of the machine. I find this very useful for t-shirts, shirts, and even bedlinen to reduce creases.
I have a 9 kg W1, an older model and have been very happy with it. It doesn't have single wash, but I have never had a problem with washing small loads.


Post# 1142699 , Reply# 7   2/20/2022 at 23:31 (793 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

Thanks for that.

The steam option is only available on the $4500 miele.

What is important to me...

Linen/Cotton.

Thats all I have and everything I have says do not tumble dry and everything I have says cold-warm wash only. The designers of the Linen I bought say wash on 20 deg C, maximum 40. Which is in line with everything I have that says cold-warm wash.

I know many times I just have a handful of socks to do, or in an emergency need to wash just 1 item, so I figured that single wash would be useful unless what you are saying is you can wash a single thing without that function? But according to Miele (and I spoke to more than 5 people at head office) who all say you can't wash 1 shirt in the machine without single wash because the machine will simply say error and not turn on/work.

Time saving is important.

Miele have outdoor, darks, denims, shirts, sportswear, 17+ different things of which I have no need for.

List:
100% Cotton T-shirts, underwear, socks (all 100% cotton besides the socks which have 5% elastaine), Linen sheets. 100% cotton business shirts. 100% organic cotton bath towels/sheets/facewashers and 100% cotton shorts/long pants (with pockets, for outdoor) and flannelette shirts 100% cotton.

Thats pretty much all thats in the wardrobe besides the female stuff, skirts, bras, etc, all mostly cotton or denim.

Everything on tags says cold wash, some things say warm wash and all say do not tumble dry.

I know I will need to wash single items from time to time or just a handful of socks from time to time etc)

I want my clothes, sheets and towels to be looked after the best possible so a gentle cleaning machine is a want to not wear out the clothes etc (especially the sheets since they cost so much).

So given the above... what 'do' I need in terms of functions? Far as I can tell, I just need 1 function, Cotton, and the ability to do things quick, 1kg, less than 1kg, half load, or full load. I know I don't want clothes waiting a month to have a big load, things just get smelly so I prefer to wash more frequently which results in many times just having 1 thing here or there to wash that just has nothing matching to go with it (eg: business shirt).

I probably dont need '9kg' but thats the machine that gives the single wash (if I am understanding its function correctly). The 8kg with Quick power is only $350 less, so I may as well have the 9kg and the cheapest 8kg which is a price worth considering $1650 (compare to $2600) doesnt have quick power wash either...

I liked Speed Queen for the simplicity of functions but with the big holes in the drums and the design, and the fact they are commercial designed... maybe they are designed to last a very long time but how they look after clothes might be rough I dont know and they cost $4500 also which is now nearly double of the Miele. So... I dont know?


Post# 1142735 , Reply# 8   2/21/2022 at 15:37 (792 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA)        

As others have said you can wash one or two items in a Miele washer without the singlewash option. The one thing about that on my machine is that each program has some minimum time that the program cycle will last, so washing 2 items in the wrinkle-free program without the singlewash option will take longer and use much more water than with the option selected. This is one of the reasons I use the Singlewash option; It gets small loads out of the way faster plus the option can be added to most of the program cycles on the machine.

The experience center needs better training than it is getting!


Post# 1142749 , Reply# 9   2/21/2022 at 18:39 (792 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

Well is it even worth getting the Miele then or save the $1000 and get a series 8 bosch?

The drums different, and how long one lasts.... never owned either so I don't know.

Since they all wash 1kg or more...

Given the items I listed in a previous message that I have to clean (100% cotton everything - cold-warm wash)... wanting to look after business shirts and linen sheets/towels (mind you towels get oiled at times from clinic work so towels get washed daily after use)... with your experience, what would you be looking at buying to ensure the longevity of the machine and the items that are being washed?


Post# 1142753 , Reply# 10   2/21/2022 at 18:59 (792 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

If buisness shirts are a regular thing you need to wash, I wouldn't even bother thinking about longevity.

I don't wear dress shirts often - except for work.
In certain situations this might not apply, but for most cases, the Miele will change EVERYTHING for frequent shirt wearers.
The main reason I went back to a Miele was the pre-ironing function.
I wash them on the shirts cycle, lowest spin speed, pre-ironing selected. Though that takes the cycle time up a bit, if you grab the shirts right as the door unlocks and just hang them on a hanger overnight, they are dry and perfectly wearable.
Of course no pressed finish, but after 5min of wearing, you really can't tell the difference between an ironed shirt and one just done by the machine.

No other steam feature came close, and the Bosch dosen't have one.
As someone who hates ironing, that was a game changer.



Post# 1142757 , Reply# 11   2/21/2022 at 19:14 (792 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

"no other steam feature came close"

Are you saying I need the Miele with steam function to get the results you talking about for shirts?

That one is $4500 not $2600. All the other Miele models that are cheaper than $4500 don't have that feature.

So I am talking about a Miele without 'steam' function and other brand/style washers for looking after shirts and stuff.


Post# 1142768 , Reply# 12   2/21/2022 at 22:59 (792 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Have you looked at service for both machines? How easy is it to get them serviced in your area? If something happens to an expensive machine, you don't want to go through a huge amount of trouble to find a service company.

Post# 1142769 , Reply# 13   2/21/2022 at 23:35 (792 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Pre-ironing

mielerod69's profile picture
Is the steam function on the Miele model you're looking at. It adds the steam function at the end of the program.
Just because your items are all cotton, the various programs are designed to treat the items with care. Most of my items are cottons and I use a variety of programs so I get the best care and minimise ironing.


Post# 1142799 , Reply# 14   2/22/2022 at 09:32 (792 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Pre-ironing vs SteamCare

My Miele has the pre-ironing function, not steam care.

SteamCare came first on the generation before these.
It uses a seperate steam generator and is generally faster and more versatile in treatment options. For example, it can be used seperatly from a wash cycle for refreshing and dewrinkling dry items.
It has a slight edge in anti crease performance aswell.

Pre-ironing does NOT have a seperate steam generator and is found on most Mieles as an option button.
It relies on a measured amount of water covering the heater but not reaching into the drum. The main heater - used during washing aswell - is used to steam the items.
It can only be used in conjunction with a wash cycle as it relies on the laundry being a certain dampness to not damage the items. Part of pre-ironing is heating the drum to fairly toasty temps, so items need to be ironable and damp for it to work without issue.



I only have pre-ironing on my machine as I said and it works brilliantly.

Part of it is that the drum is quite heavy and stores a lot of heat which helps smoothing.

For example, my machine has a 25min steam phase followed by 8min to allow the drum to cool to safe temps before ending the cycle.
The generally higher temps compared to for example LGs current anti crease steam cycle really give noticeably better results.

Downside is that pre-ironing adds 35min to the cycles compared to the 15min it adds on the SteamCare equipped machines. So it isn't a time saving thing really, just saves so much hazzle.


Post# 1142824 , Reply# 15   2/22/2022 at 14:41 (791 days old) by Boomboom (The Moon)        

I see.

So steamcare is what is on the 5k machine, all the other models that don't have steamcare just have the pre-iron option and that option does its own steaming etc during its cycle?

Might add 35min... but when you can be home all day, it isn't like I have to stand at the machine until its done, so 15min, 30min, 2 hours... doesn't really matter to me. I don't tend to put 3-4-5 loads of washing where the time adds up to mattering. One wash and finished for the day, so it can take 1 hour it can take 4 hours, the machine works without me, so that makes no difference at all practically speaking.

Well I guess then the decision has to be made, do I want a bosch or spend the extra $1000 for 'miele'.

I am assuming the machine, the drum, etc, is that bit 'better' on the Miele for garment care etc?

If so - I will most likely go for that. With $100 cotton shirts each and linen sheets that cost $500 per set... to me 'best' care is essential otherwise, I save on the machine and lose on the stuff that goes in the machine.



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