Thread Number: 89998  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele WXR 860 WCS Update
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Post# 1145909   4/6/2022 at 00:03 (778 days old) by Hippo (Oregon)        

Today my Miele app notified me that there is a firmware update available for my WXR 860 WCS. The only information given is “This update includes the latest Miele developments.”

Has anybody installed the update, and if so, what changes have you noticed? Any information would be greatly appreciated!

I will report my impressions after I install the update, however I might wait for initial responses before I do so in case of issues.

Post# 1145942 , Reply# 1   4/6/2022 at 21:07 (777 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        
Installed a few days ago...

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And I haven't noticed any changes.

Post# 1145983 , Reply# 2   4/7/2022 at 14:28 (776 days old) by Hippo (Oregon)        

littlegreeny, thank you very much for your response.

Have you run a cycle with prewash enabled since the update? I haven't had the widely discussed prewash water inlet error issues with my WXR 860 and want to be sure that this update won't start causing them as I use prewash regularly.

Post# 1146023 , Reply# 3   4/7/2022 at 19:14 (776 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        

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I have not run the prewash but I did enable the chlorine bleach function to see if that got fixed and it didn't. I was all excited because it added more water about 10 before the wash period ended but not in the bleach/prewash cup. It flushed the main detergent compartment.

Post# 1146034 , Reply# 4   4/7/2022 at 23:40 (776 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
A really sad story IMO

I am in the process of replacing my Miele washer and dryer set.
Paying 1000$ plus and waiting MONTHS for fixes on basic functionality is just ridiculous.
If it was stuff like optimization of interim spins (mine got a change there) we would be happy to get them no matter when.

Miele over here is raising their prices aswell.
Their BOL M-Touch machine could be had for under 1500€ - a "good deal" at that price for what you get.
Now they are 1750€ for the exact same machine.

They appear to have outsourced much of the actual coding, design and building to commonly known parts manufacturers (Bitron being one of them - the same that produced PCBs for BOL Bauknecht/Whirlpools, though I hope Miele speced longer lifetime and a high budget in return).
That's the outside optimization firm they contracted in years ago at work.

They did some smart and harmless things (like dropping the coupons for the empty TwinDos containers and making customers pay - sure it's 50€ more to spend, but at that price point that really dosen't matter and functionality is the same).
Take stop making all W1s 1600rpm - that would be fine if I had an option in the lower end with that.

But a lot of more recent stuff was a huge pain in the ass for the customer.
And funny enough - they mostly tackled the price competitive laundry sector.
Their DWs and kitchen appliances in general are still top notch.

And it's so basic quality insurance stuff.

All these fill issues are pretty basic typos in programming.
Somebody knowing what they programmed (and actually caring) could fix it in seconds.
This way they probably have a 3 month cycle of meeting with the outside company, telling them all the issues customers had, and hoping the update they create actually address all of them.
If not, the earliest that issue can be addressed again is 6 months later.

And Miele dosen't care.
They don't pay for these bug fix updates probably, and the customer already gave them their money.

Don't get me wrong, a MOL Miele will outperform most washers in most any way IMO.
And I would gladly recommend them for most people.

But I was looking on upgrading to something more premium.
And at the TOL, some very reputable companies are cheaper and from the standpoint of not delivering an unfinished product WAY ahead.
They have per se more technology for cheaper and are still known to be as reliable.

Why should I spend more on a Miele that might have such basic oversights as the wrong agitation being allocated to a cycle (yes, that's currently a thing here) if I can get an arguably more advanced and equally reliable machine for less?

There are things where you can cut costs and get away with it - outsourcing is great in that regard, since who solders the resistors to the boards dosen't really matter much.
It also frees you from a lot of liability - if a PCB breaks during the warranty period, you don't pay for it, you Bill it to the supplier.

But Quality Assurance can NEVER be one of these things if you charge the highest retail price for a washer in most EU markets.
And you clearly see that Miele just outsourced some parts of development that are time consuming and not really important - how the cycle is coded dosen't matter, just that it does what it is supposed to according to their specs.
And sure you assume they do the QA - but they don't cause it's freaking expensive.
That's why it has been outsourced in the first place.

And you can clearly see it in the issues popping up.

It's not that more washers are DOA (basically 0) or that they last significantly less than expected.

It's that a product is delivered, works perfectly fine in 95% of cases.
The hardware is ok - it was just an oversight in the 5% of the edge cases.
And since people spending that much on a washer usually care about those - it blows up in your face.

Examples on my set:
- The dryer has a terrible system to handle loads drying slower than expected. If it doesn't detect the load reaching the first drying degree after its initially allotted time - it just defaults to a max drying time and never senses again.
- I had that cooldown issue for 6 months making the washer potentially unusable in certain installations.
- Some cycles don't load size sense even if they should - a Cottons short 40C SHOULD differentiate between full load and partial load to set either PW or not. It doesn't.

And if I pay that much, that is just not something to chump change the customer on.

Post# 1146041 , Reply# 5   4/8/2022 at 09:25 (776 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        

I was actually saving all my side jobs to buy this machine. You guys are all scaring me away from this machine. Initially, I was wanting to buy a Miele because I could put it in the basement And plug it in a 120 outlet.
My second choice is a Bosch. But again, it would require a 240 outlet. Maybe I’ll hold out until Miele creates a “W2”

Post# 1146044 , Reply# 6   4/8/2022 at 09:55 (776 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
My App is v4.4.0

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I have not run a prewash yet, but I very seldom use it anyway.  I don't have that many issues with the app except that sometimes it just won't connect.  I wish it had the ability save a favorite cycle.  Like my new favorite cycle is Baby Clothes with Water Plus and Extra Rinse.  It would be nice if I could click one button to get it.  I'm not sure what this cycle does, but the clothes are so soft.  You can really feel the difference when you pull them out.


Given how well this machine cleans and the cycles I have available I would still by this machine again.  I have never had a machine that cleans so well.  Not even my Bosch Axxis+ that I really loved.

Post# 1146046 , Reply# 7   4/8/2022 at 10:26 (776 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        

I had a Bosch axxis and loved it! It cleaned anything I put in there. I still think it cleaned better than my LG set today. My work clothes involve dirt and sweat. Nothing could get those shirts cleaner than that Bosch Axxis. Another option was going with a wxi and not the wxr- to my knowledge, there isn’t much difference between the two, other than the fact it’s touch screen and a few extra cycles?

Post# 1146065 , Reply# 8   4/8/2022 at 16:34 (775 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA)        


I think you should send your above post directly to Miele so they can read it.

Post# 1151578 , Reply# 9   6/18/2022 at 12:21 (705 days old) by Hippo (Oregon)        

I have installed the update. Prewash still works just fine. I didn't notice any distinct changes to programs or options. I was playing with the Wash Assistant and there seems to be more informational messages and perhaps different cycle suggestions, however I didn't write down any of the results before the update so I'm not sure.

However, I have just noticed that I am no longer getting the post-cycle anti-crease tumbling on the Baby Cottons cycle despite having the option activated in settings. I will be noting if this has changed on other cycles now that I've noticed it. Are there any other reasons that it might not be working?

Post# 1155518 , Reply# 10   7/29/2022 at 17:07 (663 days old) by axman53 (South Florida)        

Miele Rant
I just had a Miele tech out today to do a firmware update on my WXR 860 WCS hoping that the bleach would pull from the bleach well at the end of the normal cycle. No such luck. Same old problem. Not to mention that the tech managed to brick the machine and was here for two and half hours before he could get the firmware to update. Just as he was about to close the service call, order a replacement CPU and a dryer lift assist (stackables) (AND LEAVE ME WITH A NON-FUNCTIONING MACHINE) which would have taken in the vicinity of a week to 10 days, some certain someone from Miele who actually knows the technology called the tech and walked him through the issue. Seems that the tech's laptop was misconfigured and the commuication between the laptop and the machine was failing causing the firmware update to fail. Something about the speed setting between the laptop and the optical interaface they use. In any case, the firmware is up to date, the bleach problem is still not fixed. So far the only noticeable improvement is that the machine communicates the TwinDos fill level to the Miele app instead of my having to set it manually. The tech had no release notes so I have no idea what "fixes" or improvements are supposed to be included in the firmware update. All in all a very poor experience. I don't think Miele's service techs are up the task of dealing with the level of technology built into these modern marvels. "All the modern inconvieniences..." -- Mark Twain

Post# 1155527 , Reply# 11   7/29/2022 at 20:15 (663 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have said this before

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Miele was having difficulty finding techs going back a good decade or two.

Most of the good ones who started out with Miele back in day have either retired or otherwise left the company. Any who remain long since have ceased going out into field and work in office as with tech who supervised via phone or whatever above.

Piling onto those issues is fact Miele USA had huge change up in top administration. New guy made changes not everyone liked and good number of employees left company.

At least in our neck of woods for a while Miele was using Service One or some such outfit techs trained to work on their appliances. IIRC it was not a resounding success.

In general things still pretty much are what they have always been with Miele. Closer you are to Princeton, NJ (or reasonable driving distance), better chances of getting a "real" Miele tech either first, second or top tier.

Post# 1155536 , Reply# 12   7/29/2022 at 23:52 (663 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
normal cycle

How does the normal cycle perform after the updates?

Post# 1155537 , Reply# 13   7/30/2022 at 00:01 (663 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.

Post# 1161807 , Reply# 14   10/16/2022 at 14:20 (584 days old) by axman53 (South Florida)        
Update on bleach dispensing issue

Anybody heard anything new on the bleach dispensing issue? Here's what's been happening with me. So far, Miele has sent 4 different techs, replaced two boards (the motherboard and the front panel interface board) and updated the firmware twice. Still, the machine does not dispense bleach in the normal cycle with TwinDOS turned off. It dispenses our own detergent just fine, but not bleach. So we are still adding the bleach to the fabric softener well and adding an extra rinse cycle at the end. Again, this is the WXR860WCS type HW21 washer. What baffles me is this: everyone on this thread seems to think that this is a "worldwide" issue. If that's true, why don't the techs know anything about it? I ask each one of them, do you know this to be an issue with this particular machine? And the answer is always, no, haven't heard anything. The ONLY tech who said straight out that it is a known firmware issue was the very first tech that they sent from a third-party service company. None of the guys from Miele, who always come in the red Miele truck, seem to know anything about it. Anybody have any new input on this?

Post# 1161818 , Reply# 15   10/16/2022 at 18:44 (584 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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While Miele washers sold elsewhere in world may or may not have same option; use of chlorine bleach for domestic laundry is quite low in Europe and many other parts of world. Thus even if washer has option enabled few if many bother.

"The ONLY tech who said straight out that it is a known firmware issue was the very first tech that they sent from a third-party service company. None of the guys from Miele, who always come in the red Miele truck, seem to know anything about it. Anybody have any new input on this?"

It's highly probable Miele is sourcing these motherboards from a third party. Thus both in house and other techs would have to be trained on how to repair or whatever service is required. A third party tech whose sole means of bread and butter is not Miele appliances may be more free to divulge things. OTOH in house Miele techs may have to be more circumspect.

Post# 1161836 , Reply# 16   10/17/2022 at 02:19 (584 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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I've skimmed manuals from France, South Africa, Australia, Singapore and (as far as possible) Japan and none contain the word "chlorine" and only mention bleach as a property of powdered detergents.

So, yeah, the regular use chlorine bleach might just be a very US thing.

Post# 1188970 , Reply# 17   8/31/2023 at 11:56 (266 days old) by axman53 (South Florida)        
Latest firmware update fixes bleach dispensing issue

Last week I noticed for the first time since we had this machine that the firmware updated on its own over the wi-fi connection. I just happened to catch the update cycle on the machine display. So I immediately thought to myself, hmmm, I wonder if this update will fix the bleach dispensing issue that I posted about almost a year ago on this thread. So, I did a test cycle, and tested a few more times after that. Tada!!! The bleach dispensing issues appears to have been fixed! Are any of you seeing the same thing?

Post# 1188973 , Reply# 18   8/31/2023 at 13:49 (265 days old) by Labboy (SD, CA)        

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I did see the firmware update and installed it. I don’t use chlorine bleach so have that option disabled in settings. What changed with the dispensing?

I have run a few cycles with Prewash and the water inlet fault issue seems to have been resolved with an App update.


Post# 1188974 , Reply# 19   8/31/2023 at 14:22 (265 days old) by axman53 (South Florida)        

Up until this firmware update, if you set the machine to use chlorine bleach and put your own liquid bleach in the bleach dispenser, the cycle would complete without ever flushing the bleach into the wash. So, essentially, you could not use your own liquid bleach with the machine. There was workaround where you would put the bleach in the fabric softener compartment and the bleach would be released at the fabric softener part of the cycle, but then it was recommened to add an extra rinse at the end of the cycle because of the timing of the fabric softener/bleach release. Now you can just put the liquid bleach in its proper dispense and it works like it should. Only took a year and half!

Post# 1188979 , Reply# 20   8/31/2023 at 14:47 (265 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Not to inflate my ego

But I pretty much predicted so.

It's a simple software issue.
Connected appliances have their few advantages.

It's just gonna take a long time.
And Miele will basically not say anything about it.

Glad the issues have been resolved anyway.
Hope you'll have long service from the now working unit!

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