Thread Number: 90251  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Where could I get a Miele W1 washer service manual or information?
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Post# 1148229   5/7/2022 at 18:04 (717 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        

I'm guessing Miele service manuals must be as rare or as guarded as the Cola secret recipes but just in case anyone has access to this information it would be handy to have.
We're having problems with the dial settings and display screen on our Type HW21 washer in that the programs selected are showing up 2 "clicks" over to the right instead of their usual place. When in the "Off" position the dial shows up on the screen as the Normal program, and Denim/Dark is Off.
The model is WWB020 WCS. If I select Normal, both that selection and the OFF show identical time duration on the screen.

I've unplugged the machine overnight hoping for a reset but that didn't work. We can still use it but now don't have a Denim/Dark selection.

Is there a way to do a reset on these machines? Any idea of how to get it back to its normal working order?
Thanks in advance...


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Post# 1148231 , Reply# 1   5/7/2022 at 18:23 (717 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Service manuals for older Miele washer and dryers are out there on internet. Haven't seen anything for W1 nor T1, then again wasn't looking very hard.

Miele tends to keep such material close, only allowing their trained certified techs access. Even service manuals for older washers and dryers aren't exactly fully detailed. That tells me there is more likely accessed via those laptop computers Miele techs carry with them on call outs.

Some members from Europe may be able to assist.

Not to be a Captain Obvious, but have you reached out to Miele customer/tech support?


Post# 1148232 , Reply# 2   5/7/2022 at 18:31 (717 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
Has it always been like this?

Is it that the programs are all off because the rotary section behind physically shifted by 2?

Does image 2 show a Delicates cycle, where you cannot select Hot+?

How old is this machine?

Richard


Post# 1148239 , Reply# 3   5/7/2022 at 19:42 (717 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Replies...

Thanks for the replies.
I haven't contacted Miele as this started yesterday afternoon, on a Friday here in Eastern Canada. Does Miele give online or over-the-phone assistance on an out-of-warranty machine?
This machine was bought new by someone else in Jan.2020 and I just bought it from them a couple of weeks ago. It ran fine until I accidentally touched the screen or selector knob while I was positioning it slightly into its space in the laundry room.
I heard beep, beep, and saw the screen lit up with the selection dial in the "off" position.
It's not just off by two in the selections actually, as RichNZ noticed, some of the programs are also not giving the right options. In Express, it now only gives me the choice of 105 minutes, not 20, as before.


Post# 1148247 , Reply# 4   5/7/2022 at 20:55 (717 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The DirectSensor machines aren't good for going into service and settings yourself.

There is - or was - a service manual for a first gen washer dryer (WT1) around.
But that was a text display capable model, so not something to use much when talking about your machine.

Unfortunately I don't have the link in my bookmarks anymore and finding it takes some time.
I'll go for a hunt tomorrow and post if O find the link.


Post# 1148248 , Reply# 5   5/7/2022 at 21:33 (717 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Found it

fliphtml5.com/jknmy/kxha/basic...

Downloaded it from there, the sife appears to be safe.


Post# 1148250 , Reply# 6   5/7/2022 at 22:13 (717 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Service manual..

OK< well, that's a start.
I'll check it out,
Thanks.


Post# 1148253 , Reply# 7   5/7/2022 at 22:43 (717 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
There was a video

On YouTube some time ago that showed the calibration mode for the cycle selector, since that is purely done in software through encoding.

If you call Miele, maybe they can guide you through the procedure.
If they refuse, ask for a phone number for a nearby tech, call them directly and let them guide you through the procedure.



I can't locate the video at the moment.
If I do I'll post here.


Post# 1148267 , Reply# 8   5/8/2022 at 02:47 (717 days old) by richnz (New Zealand)        
What happens in

Extra white?

How long is that cycle?


Post# 1148268 , Reply# 9   5/8/2022 at 04:55 (717 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
On this side of pond Miele does not give out direct contact information of their techs.

OP should just reach out to Miele tech/customer support via telephone or email. Miele CSR may give insight, help diagnose and clear problem, but odds are they won't. In which case a service call out will need to be arranged.

Best case scenario OP touched something he shouldn't while moving washer and tech will know how to reset. It shouldn't involve making a second call. This would be the most costly solution, but effective.

OTOH OP can just continue researching ways to undo what was done himself.


Post# 1148296 , Reply# 10   5/8/2022 at 10:25 (717 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Day 3

Does anyone know if there's a main motherboard within the innards of the machine or if all the electronics are built into the main display board?
It wouldn't seem right to have electronics under the laundry tub but anything is possible. I'm asking because the connector to the display board only has 4 wires in it and I would have imagined a mainboard to have more than that.
If there is another control board, it would be a pain to get at in any case to try to see if there's a reset button of sorts.
Here are a couple of photos of the selector knob at the express and extra white positions.
I'm feeling a bit sheepish, having vaunted Miele to my wife and kids. After watching other videos online I see others have had issues much worse than this with similar models of Miele washers.
The consolation, if this can't be fixed cheaply, is that we can at least use it as it is, and at $750, I didn't pay the full price of a new Miele machine, but still close to what a regular other brand washer would cost.


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Post# 1148299 , Reply# 11   5/8/2022 at 10:50 (717 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Control setup

The display board only handles UI input and output.
It is pretty dumb so to speak.

The main control board is on the bottom left back looking from the front.

No there is no reset button.



As said, this could probably be solved without replacement parts.

Call Miele, ask how much a technician visit to you is, and go from there.


I was almost as far as to suggest that the knob is just misaligned.
But they are keyed, so you could not fit it offset.


Post# 1148328 , Reply# 12   5/8/2022 at 21:02 (716 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Miele call out charges are between $200 to $300 Canadian dollars. Good news is they credit that sum towards any repairs which need doing.

OTOH if it's just a matter of a simple fix that does not require parts and or return visit, you may luck out and tech won't charge anything.

Unless armed with proper service/tech manual it's finding out issue and correcting will be difficult to impossible. Reach out to Miele tech/customer support, explain issue and see if they will offer any assistance that way. If only recourse is to book a call out you'll have to decide if it's worth it or not.


Post# 1148427 , Reply# 13   5/10/2022 at 18:24 (714 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Called Miele..

They couldn't help me except to suggest having a tech to come to the house, at $300, as was mentioned by Launderess.
I'll call back with the display board part # and see what that costs. I imagine $$$.
What I've seen though on Youtube is someone who has the same model as ours having the tech replace the display control board by a service tech and it still didn't work because it needs to be programmed for that particular machine.
ANyone have an idea if it's do-able for an machine owner to swap a board or would I be wasting my time and possible money trying to do this on my own?


Post# 1148435 , Reply# 14   5/10/2022 at 20:01 (714 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Was afraid of that happening...

launderess's profile picture
Down south Miele USA no longer provides any sort of tech support via telephone or email. Best one can manage is perhaps obtaining parts diagrams/lists and schematics. But assistance with diagnosing issues and or installing parts is no longer provided, period. You can search archives of this forum to read more about that matter from oneself and others.

IIRC yes, that is way with all European laundry appliances nowadays (probably others as well); obtaining and installing mother/control board is one thing, but the thing must be programmed by a tech onsite to suit. That requires a laptop or other device with proper connection and apps. Miele isn't going to allow anyone outside of their own or certified tech access to the apps for sure.


Obviously cannot say for sure since wasn't there, but don't believe simply moving washer seriously damaged control board. But then again you won't know for sure unless or if you have Miele come out and do onsite diagnosis.

Fair warning from one who owns Miele appliances, nothing from that lot is cheap, and dealing with Miele is often maddening.

No offence to our German members or those with ancestry, but Miele North America seems to embody some of the worst Teutonic traits. Everything is always the customer's fault because otherwise machine "cannot" be doing *that*. Customer used incorrect amount or or wrong detergent, customer is too ignorant to understand finer points of great German engineering.

When Miele finally does send a tech out (don't hold your breath waiting for that event to occur in less than one or two weeks), and confirms yes, appliance indeed is doing what was said, then fun begins.

If tech does not have part or parts in his inventory they must be ordered from main distribution center (in USA that's Princeton, NJ). Heaven help if parts aren't in stock their either as things will need to be ordered from Germany. Thus it could be one, two, three weeks or more until tech has required part or parts. Once that happens another call out must be booked which again could be one, two or whatever weeks away.

While all this is going on if appliance is not operable, you're left with a very expensive brick.

Oh and unless repairs are covered under warranty retting that "brick" back into service won't be cheap either.

www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/...

Certain repairs such as shock replacement and others are pretty straight forward. If one has skills, proper tools and equipment, time and knows what one is doing, things aren't usually a problem. Anything that involves electronics, programming, or similar OTOH will likely be another story.

Miele appliances are often sold for very little money or just given away because current owner doesn't want to pay what is needed for repair.

This poor soul spent three months in Miele repair hell dealing with a motherboard replacement issue.











Post# 1148436 , Reply# 15   5/10/2022 at 20:05 (714 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
OP have you seen this?






Post# 1148448 , Reply# 16   5/10/2022 at 22:00 (714 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Videos...

Thanks again Launderess.
Yes, I had seen those videos, as I've done a lot of searching and now understand quite a bit more what the story is about Miele NA.
I was watching the fellow with the 3 month out of service machine and my wife heard his comments.
She asked what that was all about and I said he's got the same machine we have..
"I guess you hadn't seen those prior to making the purchase then..?"
"Nope"
I might bite the bullet and call in the Miele chap, and hopefully get some answers and hints from him.
Worse case scenario, we keep using the machine as is and in a few years I might find someone, as you mentioned, giving or selling theirs for cheap.
There's something about some German, or maybe European products in NA, in that the manufacturers can't be bothered to provide as good a product or service as on the continent.
I know a fellow who worked for Siemens engineering and he said the Germans he worked with didn't really care about providing their best quality of service.
Think of Peugeot or Renault for cars...


Post# 1148456 , Reply# 17   5/10/2022 at 22:43 (714 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"Think of Peugeot or Renault for cars..."

launderess's profile picture
Same could be said of Mercedes-Benz and BMW with maybe Audi, Range/Land Rover and few others from Europe thrown in as well.

Joke among American car lovers is that for all the status and prestige of say a MB, darn thing will spend more days in shop than on road or even one's garage. *LOL*


As for appliances, Miele's big worry is they are a private family owned firm who never has invested in North American plants. Everything related to Miele appliances including machines themselves must come from Germany.

Because of Miele's proprietary nature of doing business independent repair persons often don't want anything to do with them. Nor does Miele have anywhere near enough qualified and trained techs to cover either Canada or USA, both large places with lots of territory to cover.

In many ways Miele is rather like MB or BMW. They appear to feel that people should put up with what they consider minor annoyances because "it's a Miele"! Sod that!

People have spent tens of thousands kitting their kitchen and laundry areas with Miele appliances. Only to have range, refrigerator, washing machine, dishwasher or whatever promptly malfunction. Miele's answer is have some poor housewife or whoever wait two to three weeks for a tech to come out and diagnose issue, then another equal period of time (or longer) to get parts and tech to return and fix machine. What's a household to do in meantime for laundry, cooking, keeping food cold?

Miele appliances are wonderful, true golden standard of German engineering, and when they work are flawless. If that's up one's street and are willing to put up with various annoyances when they creep up, fine. Others don't have that kind of time nor patience.

Have seen new Miele W1 washers and T1 heat pump dryers barely one year old being sold for very little money, or just given away free to a anyone that cares to bother. This or owner will say "needs $xxx part, but otherwise works fine...".


Post# 1148469 , Reply# 18   5/11/2022 at 08:30 (714 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Alternatives?

These W1 and T1 machines you see being sold cheap or given away, what is the part listed that needs replacing?

We've had a Bosch dishwasher for 22 years now and the only issue was a very common control board problem which consisted of an small resistor overheating and causing a break in the solder connection. The problem was easily fixed and since then, it has run flawlessly.
I wonder if newer Bosch machines are still as reliable and now, if I should just switch to Bosch for our washing machine? (Recommendations?)
I've eyed Miele for a few years and convinced my wife to go for a front load when our 31 year old Whirlpool top load unit needed replacing. She loves the top load aspect now and sees how the clothing is cleaner but I work out of town for months at a time occasionally and don't really want to have her having to having to go to a laundromat while I'm gone because of a software issue and a long wait for a tech to come around.


Post# 1148491 , Reply# 19   5/11/2022 at 15:12 (713 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Should have been more clear, meant to say have seen various Miele washers and dryers needing a part being offered, not W1 or T1.

Did see someone in Boston area giving away a T1 dryer on Craigslist, they didn't say why, but it was new and in perfect working order.

Saw a Miele washer (not sure of model) going for very little money that needed a new motherboard. Seller was including that NIB part with washer.



Post# 1148576 , Reply# 20   5/12/2022 at 17:03 (712 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Misaligned control knob

I have to say, that brings back memories of a Hoover (Candy) 'Quattro' machine, circa 2001. The control knob on that went the same way, and it was pot luck whether you ended up with the right programme and soiling level on the first spin of the dial.

I believe on the Hoover/Candy, the rotary selector switch became either worn or dirty. Or perhaps the the electronics were just crappily specified.


Post# 1148635 , Reply# 21   5/13/2022 at 13:11 (711 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Update...

I called Miele customer service and they couldn't help me. They said there isn't a Miele repair service available in our area but there are two independent ex-Miele techs who come into town once in a while so one of them is coming around on Tuesday.
I explained the problem to him over the phone and he's never heard of this issue either, so we'll see what he finds.

All these European highly tuned products which require a lot of owner detailed attention to maintenance and operation remind me of the old man Bugatti, when told that his cars didn't start or the engines run right when it rained, said "Well, just don't drive when it's raining!!"


Post# 1148638 , Reply# 22   5/13/2022 at 13:19 (711 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"They said there isn't a Miele repair service available in our area but there are two independent ex-Miele techs who come into town once in a while..."

Now you know why Miele appliances aren't hugely popular outside of certain areas both USA and Canada. Imagine paying over one thousand dollars for a washing machine, it promptly has issues, and you're told by Miele it could be several weeks before anyone even comes out to look.

Best of luck! Do keep us posted!


Post# 1148696 , Reply# 23   5/14/2022 at 09:09 (711 days old) by 37Saratoga (Gatineau)        
Miele...

I took this machine completely apart when I got it home and it's well built obviously. Simple to work on, on the mechanical aspects but with all the electronics, not so obvious.
It was filthy from having been used with what I figure unfiltered well water then left standing for a few months. It took many cleaning cycles to get all the gunge and slime out until the water ran clean.It had been left behind by the original owner of a home and the new owner put it online for sale at a fairly hefty price. I managed to bargain it down to something reasonable and for a while wondered why the original owner would leave a practically brand new Miele washer behind but after seeing how the unfiltered water had plugged up the water inlet and the filth that had accumulated in the pipes and outer tub, I think the machine had stopped working properly and was out of warranty. Some folks aren't really mechanically inclined and have money to burn, I guess...
If I had a pick-up truck or trailer, and more room in my garage, I'd buy or get the good priced ones offered locally and see if I could fix them up a bit and resell.

It reminds me of folks who buy a fancy expensive car and neglect it completely..



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