Thread Number: 90860
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Video: Are today's washers made to break? |
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Post# 1153697   7/8/2022 at 16:50 (443 days old) by Moparwash ![]() |
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Post# 1153702 , Reply# 1   7/8/2022 at 17:20 (443 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Everything made after 2010 is designed to break and fail. There’s a big difference in the quality of appliances built in the 2000’s vs the 2010’s, same thing for cars. Technology has improved since the 2000’s but the quality and quality control has a bit to be desired since some things are broken right out of the box or develop problems soon after. 21st century engineering simply CANNOT compare to 20th century engineering and design.
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Post# 1153706 , Reply# 2   7/8/2022 at 17:46 (443 days old) by appnut ![]() |
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Post# 1153727 , Reply# 3   7/8/2022 at 21:27 (442 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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Let me tell you. Yes they are! They don't clean well either. I'd take a Whirlpool direct drive, GE filter-flo, or even a Speed Queen Classic. |
Post# 1153729 , Reply# 4   7/8/2022 at 22:31 (442 days old) by Smartdrive1100 (Melbourne, Victoria, Australia)   |   | |
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Everything has been made to break for years!
Appliances, cars, etc. Lightbulbs where also made to break so the companies would get more sales and it worked! I also think the little coupling in the whirlpool DD was something that was made to break so that people would throw it out and get a new machine but that’s just what I think. |
Post# 1153732 , Reply# 5   7/8/2022 at 23:45 (442 days old) by whirlykenmore78 ![]() |
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Post# 1153736 , Reply# 6   7/9/2022 at 00:08 (442 days old) by robbinsandmyers ![]() |
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Post# 1153741 , Reply# 7   7/9/2022 at 01:10 (442 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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I am pretty sure a majority of those Whirlpool VMW washers have gone to scrap in the 12 years they have been in production. Not really environmentally responsible to make disposable machines that can’t make it past 5+ years without major repairs or a complete overhaul. It takes A LOT of energy to process steel than it is to make appliances that will last 15 to 20+ years. Whirlpool should have continued making the direct drive washers since some of the VMW washers have the same EXACT capacity as the direct drives did.
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Post# 1153751 , Reply# 8   7/9/2022 at 06:51 (442 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)   |   | |
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Of course the little coupling on a direct drive washer was designed as a weak point to break in order to protect the motor or gearcase from overload conditions. Although washers were thrown out for this failure and it was an inconvenience when it failed it was much better than the heavy duty version of the coupling which would not fail so it rounded the shaft on the motor, gearcase, or both instead of the coupling failing sending the machine to scrap for sure.
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Post# 1153763 , Reply# 9   7/9/2022 at 10:12 (442 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() The DD motor coupler is equivalent to a belt. Yes, people toss out machines for failed couplers for being alarmed at the unhealthy noises that may occur but it's as crazy to to do that as it is to trash a car for a bad battery. The online parts source I typically use has couplers for $11. Non-OEM items can be found for less than $8. Melvin, are old-style couplers without the metal insert still available, as either OEM or non-? |
Post# 1153788 , Reply# 10   7/9/2022 at 12:41 (442 days old) by foraloysius ![]() |
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It's easy to keep beating a dead horse, i.e. that modern machines are not as good as older ones. As this is an appliance site, members have more thoughts about appliances than the average consumer. I remember a fellow member telling here that a relative had bought a new house (we're talking mcmansion here, with a 5 car garage). When it was time to replace the washer he told his wife to go buy the cheapest washer available, which was a very basic toploader (IIRC a Kenmore with temperature settings in the timer) for $199.- back then.
A good quality machine like the ones of yesteryear would cost around $2500.- now. No regular consumer (not with a special interest in appliances) is going to fork out that kind of money for "just" a washing machine. A lot of regular consumers don't even know what brand their washer is. Actually I think it is quite a miracle that manufacturers can make a machine that works for a reasonable amount of years for the prices they are getting for their products. For instance some members here speak highly of their Amana or Roper basic toploaders. $629.- for the Amana is around 25% of the price a really good machine would cost. A lot of consumers find that more than enough for a washing machine. I think modern machines are not made to break, the margins are just too small for the manufacturers to make a machine that really lasts long. They are just selling what the market is asking for. So don't blame the manufacturers but the consumers. |
Post# 1153789 , Reply# 11   7/9/2022 at 12:52 (442 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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well I started following these forums in 2005 when I bought my duet...and I can totally remember everyone saying (anything made today is JUNK) in 2005! In 2005, it had to be made in 60s 70s 80s or 90s...that anything made after 2000 was pretty much junk...
but that all being said....it's true...everything is cheapening...cutting corners...designed to fail...really good for the planet isn't it? Mandate it for energy and water usage so it's green...and hope it doesn't fall apart.. Makes total sense. |
Post# 1153791 , Reply# 12   7/9/2022 at 12:56 (442 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1153792 , Reply# 13   7/9/2022 at 13:02 (442 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)   |   | |
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Post# 1153796 , Reply# 14   7/9/2022 at 13:37 (442 days old) by foraloysius ![]() |
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Post# 1153804 , Reply# 15   7/9/2022 at 14:33 (442 days old) by Logixx ![]() |
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![]() I work in a store that's half appliances and half grills - mostly Weber and Napoleon with a few other brands
Now, some customers will say that their old machine lasted 20 or 30 years. But it is generally accepted that their new purchase won't last as long. Maybe I should do an experiment and tell them to purchase a commercial machine for upwards of 2,000 Euros, which might last them that long again. But really, no one would do that. The vast, vast majority of people rather junk a cheap machine every so often that to make an investment in high quality. 🤷🏻♂️ |
Post# 1153806 , Reply# 16   7/9/2022 at 14:34 (442 days old) by robbinsandmyers ![]() |
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Dont forget all companies have profit margins. Its they who are really to blame for cost cutting because of high union labor costs, high insurance costs, high property value costs, some states tax you on machinery as property plus inventory tax, high material costs, etc. Most of it stems from the high operating cost of them doing business at that particular location. Hence why they relocate in the first place to either Mexico or China because its cheap labor and no insurance plus sourcing cheap parts from China. Its been a long snow ball effect the last 50 years of everything going up in price to manufacture a product. Companies did what they had to to survive and compete. Decades ago it was to move down South, then Mexico, now its China. I imagine it was pretty inexpensive for Maytag to produce that cast iron bear of a trans in Newton many decades ago. It finally got cost prohibitive. To keep costs down and value high they should have sent the tooling elsewhere to make it just as good but still at their old costs scale. Same with other parts as well. Most stuff made in China is garbage, however I have seen stuff made in China for companies like Honda etc that are still built to a high standard in their own factories.
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Post# 1153809 , Reply# 17   7/9/2022 at 14:51 (442 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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Post# 1153810 , Reply# 18   7/9/2022 at 14:57 (442 days old) by foraloysius ![]() |
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Yes, a washing machine should cost nothing and do it's job unseen. There is another side too, people who buy expensive kitchen appliances but never use them. Just to have them for showing off to their neighbours.
Yes, ofcourse companies have profit margins, if they didn't have them, they wouldn't be making appliances. For many years a lot of manufacturers were already buying parts from everywhere around the world. There used to be an appliance site where you could read about that. I think it was appliances.com, but not sure. That site doesn't exist anymore. |
Post# 1153828 , Reply# 19   7/9/2022 at 19:52 (441 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Adjusted for inflation thats about what people paid for yesteryear W/D's.. with the understanding they would get many years of service for their money. |
Post# 1153849 , Reply# 20   7/10/2022 at 02:30 (441 days old) by foraloysius ![]() |
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Post# 1153853 , Reply# 21   7/10/2022 at 05:04 (441 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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People are willing to lay down more cash for a better and longer lasting design but those high dollar appliances are still unreliable pieces of shit.
Example: www.reddit.com/r/Applianc... |
Post# 1153862 , Reply# 23   7/10/2022 at 10:21 (441 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1153866 , Reply# 24   7/10/2022 at 10:42 (441 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() As I've said several times, my family's January 1962 Whirlpool belt-drive had many repairs until it was replaced in June 1976 ... belt and wig-wag and pump (maybe more than once), bearings, mercury-capsule lid switch bracket rusted off, brush filter replaced (probably twice) due to wear-and-tear from frequent cleaning, motor centrifugal switch got sticky and sometimes wouldn't reset (particularly on low speed) for the next start, bakelite agitator cracked, possibly a tub leak occurred at some point (the local dealer, which is the one where I worked summers for several years, often used roofing tar to fix tub leaks). Bad bearings again is what triggered the machine's replacement. |
Post# 1153876 , Reply# 25   7/10/2022 at 12:46 (441 days old) by kenwashesmonday ![]() |
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Our 1961 GE Filter Flow would leave oil spots on my mom's nursing uniforms when the transmission started to leak. It went through 3 transmissions in 15 years. |
Post# 1153882 , Reply# 26   7/10/2022 at 13:32 (441 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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GE Filter Flo washer reliability was dubious at best, sometimes they could go for many years with no repairs or would need a major repair every 5 to 10 years. That’s why Whirlpool/Kenmore and Maytag were popular for many years since they didn’t need repairs all that often and yes the Whirlpool belt drive washers needed to be repaired every so often if it were the pump, belt, control magnet assembly aka wig wag but those repairs were guaranteed vs something like a GE Filter Flo washer since there could be oil or water leaks or a transmission failure. I’ve taken a Whirlpool belt drive transmission apart before, there’s heavy cast iron gears inside similar to a Maytag, only way a transmission can fail is if water gets inside and contaminates the oil but that only ever happened if the tub seal failed (which was rare) or the center post seals failed which happened on the later belt drive washers but almost never happened on the belt drives with the tall center post.
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Post# 1153884 , Reply# 27   7/10/2022 at 13:33 (441 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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Post# 1153892 , Reply# 29   7/10/2022 at 14:17 (441 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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The mechanical tolerances were better in the mid to late 60’s and through the 70’s vs the 50’s and early 60’s. Oils in the 50’s and early 60’s weren’t all that great either which is why engines were a bit tired before reaching 100,000 miles and the engines themselves weren’t bad but the oils were. If they still made cars and engines like they did back then but since the oils have improved greatly since then, they’d easily would last to 150,000 or even 200,000 miles since oils and transmission fluids have improved greatly since then.
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Post# 1153899 , Reply# 30   7/10/2022 at 15:19 (441 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() The 1976 Supreme 80 was MSRP $369 which is what the dealer charged (although sales tax included which was his policy on new purchases). That's equivalent to $1,895 to $1,899 today. Speed Queen's MSRP for a TC5 is $1,449 and $2,229 for a frontloader, although discounts are widely available. Either way, many consumers can't justify the cost or don't have the up-front funds vs. other choices, and they don't expect or *want* to keep the same appliance for 20+ years. As an example, my Panasonic plasma TV (although it's really only a display since it has no tuner or speakers) will be 20 years in September. It's 1024x768, 720p/1080i, has no "smart" capabilities or HDMI input. How many typical consumers would have updated long ago? |
Post# 1153900 , Reply# 31   7/10/2022 at 15:26 (441 days old) by bradfordwhite ![]() |
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![]() 1. Can an over engineered washer (or any appliance) be made? Yes. It's been done before.
2. Traditional top load washers and even wash plate washers are: A. harsher on clothing B. use much more water C. use more detergent D. use more electricity E. do not clean as well
3. It is one thing to like the appliances and furnishing we grew up with in ...what ever decade it was. To have pictures or furnishings as memorabilia; not a problem. However to want to actually incorporate things that were a bad idea or were hurting society in our lives on a daily basis is very stupid. For example: we may like some of the products that were made of asbestos but to ACTUALLY pine for products anew made from asbestos is really, really dumb considering how much of a health risk it is.
4. About a 1/3 of the U.S. is affected by drought. REAL TIME people. And that number seems to be growing each year. And that is just here in the U.S. Other countries, especially those that are developing and adopting things like washing machines would be absolutely foolish to try and do a top load machine given the water situations affecting such countries.
It is totally irresponsible for any of us, if we care about society and our own lives, to try and encourage wasting water and resources on a bad product like a traditional top load washer.
Anything that can be done to get as many water wasting appliances and habits REMOVED from society makes us a better society. That should be obvious.
Anything we can do to save water resources from not watering lawns unnecessarily, not wasting water on excess showering or shower heads that waste water, not having toilets that waste water, and of course not doing laundry in a topload machine is crucial.
Time to grow up. Put your washer fetish into perspective. Like the machines you like but certainly don't use the water wasting ones or encourage others to do it.
I don't know who made that first video but it's got a limited audience as most people will not care or understand the points.
Literally, yesterday I stopped at an older laundromat as I sometimes do, to check out the retro vibe. They had traditional toploaders but the majority of machines were front loaders. On the lids of the topload machines were signs stating to the affect of "because of the drought the topload machines have been turned off. Please use the front loader washers" (I wish I had my camera with me to get photos of the laundromat and the sign. Maybe this week I will stop back for that.) That's serious and that's taking responsibility.
Personally- I grew up with top loaders. My parents first washer was a mid 60s frigidaire, then we got a 1976 Whirlpool belt drive sudsaver washer, then a 1985 GE FF TOL Spotscrubber washer, then I got Whirlpool made Direct drive models and a 1991 GE Filter flo washer. And of course the 100+ other such top loaders I collected at various points in my life. Do I have fond memories? Yeah.
Would I ever do laundry in a top loader again? NO. Would I collect the machines to look at as furniture, as people do with many other items? Yes.
I first tried a friends front load Whirlpool Duet in 2007 and was sold. So much better.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1153929 , Reply# 34   7/10/2022 at 17:07 (441 days old) by bradfordwhite ![]() |
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![]() Many people these days have budget constraints.
Front loaders are not a new thing any longer and can be readily found listed in the same places you'd find other appliances and at reasonable prices.
A front loader will probably be easier to reach for people who are wheel chair bound.
Regardless of what type model you choose, it might be a good idea to shop and buy a back-up ahead of time so you're not under stress when shopping. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK on Indianapolis Craigslist
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Post# 1153931 , Reply# 35   7/10/2022 at 17:31 (441 days old) by bradfordwhite ![]() |
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Post# 1153934 , Reply# 36   7/10/2022 at 17:59 (441 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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How many gallons do the new washers fill with? It seems when the clothes are saturated, the tub is empty of any water. |
Post# 1153963 , Reply# 38   7/11/2022 at 00:30 (440 days old) by bradfordwhite ![]() |
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As the decades have moved on the old BOL has tended to disappear
while the old MOL becomes the new BOL and the old TOL becomes the new MOL while the new TOL are new designs. Manufacturers of many appliances, including automobiles, in the U.S. and other DEVELOPED countries are also dealing with market saturation. They can't just make a batch of couches, or entry level cars, washing machines, or whatever and count on the market demand to buy them up anymore. These days if you're really in need of furnishing or appliances it's not difficult in many markets to get (used and nice) things for free through charitable organizations, off classified listings like craigslist or facebook. |
Post# 1153989 , Reply# 40   7/11/2022 at 10:57 (440 days old) by LowEfficiency ![]() |
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![]() >> The vast, vast majority of people rather junk a cheap machine every so often >> that to make an investment in high quality. Part of it too is that machines of today are visibly "electronic", and consumers have become accustomed to basically all other electronic or tech products having a short lifecycle, whereupon they are replaced with something that is basically the same but inherently better because it is newer. Nobody buys a smartphone or computer expecting to keep using it for 20+ years... and many don't even think that way for major purchases like vehicles. That 3-5 year cycle is so ingrained and normalized, it's just part of the assumption at the time of purchase. |
Post# 1154009 , Reply# 41   7/11/2022 at 13:16 (440 days old) by LowEfficiency ![]() |
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![]() >> The mechanical tolerances were better in the mid to late 60’s and through the 70’s vs the 50’s and early 60’s. Oils in the 50’s and early 60’s weren’t all that >> great either which is why engines were a bit tired before reaching 100,000 miles and the engines themselves weren’t bad but the oils were. If they still made cars >> and engines like they did back then but since the oils have improved greatly since then, they’d easily would last to 150,000 or even 200,000 miles since oils >> and transmission fluids have improved greatly since then. Some lubricants of the 50s-60s were actually significantly better (in terms of chemical/mechanical properties) than those of the 70s. For example, sperm whale oil was a prime ingredient in automatic transmission fluid (and others in similar service) up through 1973 when banned by the endangered species act. After that, transmission failures rose by 700% in the following years! Engine lifespans between eras can't realistically be linked or projected to changes of single variables. Fuel is/was substantially different, the speeds and way we drive is different, materials, tolerances, balancing, vibration allowances, consumer attitudes on preventative maintenance, road types, air and oil filter technologies, emissions and fuel economy requirements, etc, etc. Pouring modern oil into a 1950s engine isn't going to magically make it last to 200,000 miles... Classic car owners would love it if that was true! |
Post# 1154017 , Reply# 43   7/11/2022 at 14:19 (440 days old) by robbinsandmyers ![]() |
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Yesterdays oils and greases left much to be desired compared to todays. My 1960 Mercedes owners manual clearly states " Todays oils are just good enough to protect your engine, proper service ensures long life ". Basically what they were saying was oil isnt the old waxy sludge you used in 1938 but it still has a ways to go. Oil changes were much more frequent as was greasing. Car engines dont sludge up anywhere near like they used to unless they're really neglected. Todays bearings and rings are made much better as well. Proof of that is the 50:1 ratio 2 strokes use. Try running 50:1 synthetic in an old 2 stroke engine and it will still fail in short order.
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