Thread Number: 91339  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Why do all newer transmission made Speed Queens low speed spin drain after main wash?
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Post# 1158510   9/2/2022 at 14:04 (588 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)        

Iíve been wondering this for a long time, the old 90s models never did this they always used high speed drain unless it had a delicate setting, and all these new ones do a low speed drain until the final drain and spin which is high speed. Why is that? It takes forever to get going on low speed, let alone get all the water extracted? Wouldnít it make much more sense to clear the tub as fast as possible while extracting the fabrics as much as possible before the rinse cycle? Makes zero sense at all, was this just for another ridiculous energy regulation maybe? Itís just not logical at all, especially when it does it on every single cycle. Low speed does not assist with heavy large loads which is mostly what people are using these machines for.

Post# 1158511 , Reply# 1   9/2/2022 at 14:06 (588 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)        

And for another thing I left put, you canít even let the machine fill without having the lid shut. Is speed Queen worried about someoneís hand or arm getting chopped off by a water stream? They seem extremely paranoid suddenly. Glad itís an easy switch to bypass, but what the heck? These two strange behaviors donít add up.

Post# 1158512 , Reply# 2   9/2/2022 at 14:37 (588 days old) by Mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

I heard it spins slower so as not to set wrinkles in on Permanent Press fabrics.
Frustrating on a load of towels or jeans. At least thereís a short spin rinse that helps.


Post# 1158513 , Reply# 3   9/2/2022 at 14:43 (588 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
The models before the TC5 did a spray rinse at full speeds.

Post# 1158522 , Reply# 4   9/2/2022 at 16:53 (588 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

The less water extracted, the less water needs to be added to the rinse, which doesnít help rinsing performance, but does reduce water consumption.

Post# 1158528 , Reply# 5   9/2/2022 at 19:44 (587 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
low speed spin after main wash

I think that's stupid. We are not washing permanent press, which would make more sense. If it's on heavy duty, it should spin at fast speed through and through both after main wash and during final spin.

Post# 1158558 , Reply# 6   9/3/2022 at 05:02 (587 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
That`s certainly not a first time stupid thing.
Remember their grey water rinse? Wash water only drained partially then was topped up with fresh water and FS then followed by a spray rinse.
You`d think everybody in the appliance and detergent industry is a aware of the fact that detergent and FS don`t mix well.
Well, apparently everyone but the genius engineers at Speed Queen.

Post# 1158559 , Reply# 7   9/3/2022 at 05:08 (587 days old) by angus (Fairfield, CT.)        

I have the AWN432 Model and that particular issue, along with the ridiculous low level full fill (only comes up to the bottom of the third row of holes from the top) are the most frustrating things. First, your cycle choices are few and the only two that offer regular agitation speed are the "eco cycle" which fills with cold water regardless of the wash temp selected and offers only a spin rinse (again on slow speed with several spray rinses) finishing with a normal speed spin, or the alleged "Heavy Duty/Perm Press cycle that does the slow first spin. I don't understand how "Heavy Duty and "Perm Press" have anything at all to do with each other so combining the cycles is ridiculous. Particularly annoying on towels - they just don't rinse properly. If they were going to offer just a slow first spin then there should be a longer spray rinse or more than one spray rinse and perhaps a longer first spin. So what I have been doing is stopping the machine after the first spin and manually going over to the final spin to get more extraction. Then I reset for the regular rinse. Seems like a lot of unnecessary work to me just to satisfy the government requirements.

Post# 1158561 , Reply# 8   9/3/2022 at 08:18 (587 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
heavy duty and permanent press

They should've had heavy duty and permanent press separate from each other. It would've made more sence for permanent press and delicate to be combined.

Post# 1158564 , Reply# 9   9/3/2022 at 10:04 (587 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #7

ryner1988's profile picture
Angus, I had the opportunity to purchase a used AWN432 washer a couple months ago when my old machine died, and the issues you describe are a major reason I hesitated and ended up going with a whirlpool direct drive instead. I'd heard about the frustratingly low fill level on extra large, and I almost always wash full loads. The AWN and the DD I purchased both have 3.2 cubic feet capacity, but the DD fills all the way so I figured I would not have to decrease my load size to match but I thought I might have to do this with the 2017 SQ. I know there's a way to fix this with a screw in the back of the machine, I just didn't want to risk messing something up.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the deep wash on the TC5 actually does fill all the way up to the top. I would probably own that machine if it wasn't so expensive.

Post# 1158566 , Reply# 10   9/3/2022 at 10:34 (587 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
ridiculous low level full fill

qsd-dan's profile picture
You can easily adjust the water level. Here's a YouTube clip on the adjustment. I would recommend unplugging the washer before each adjustment. The wires to the pressure switch are live. One slip and you'll be electrocuted.

Post# 1158571 , Reply# 11   9/3/2022 at 11:47 (587 days old) by Mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

I own the 432 also. To get better performance on large loads or high sudsing detergents, esp on towels and jeans, I hit the reset fill knob to manually fill up the tub to above the top row of the holes in the tub. (I have learned the hard way, washing a very full load without that extra water I get small pin holes in the clothes, and very rough on towels.) Then let it wash and spin. When it advances to the rinse cycle I again manually fill it all the way up and turn the timer knob to normal eco cycle, this gives a longer deep rinse and a few spray rinses afterwards. I will do this EVERY time on a large load. I have to watch sudsing of detergents, having to run 3 full rinses is expensive, that would be nearly 100 gallons of water, plus I have sensitive skin.
It can use an insane amount of water to get all the soap out.

Usually, I just fill the tub with clothes no higher than the top hole in the agitator, that is considered a full load (and that would be considered a small or medium load anyone using any other modern washer) and then let it wash regular cycle, again watching carefully the detergents.

Sorry for the long post, but I can relate what youíre going through,


Post# 1158764 , Reply# 12   9/5/2022 at 17:09 (585 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
low speed spin on heavy duty

It makes me angry why anybody would use low speed spin on the heavy duty cycle. What was Speed Queen thinking? Do they think we're stupid? I wish there was a way I could disable the low speed spin on heavy duty so it will extract all the wash water out!

Post# 1158770 , Reply# 13   9/5/2022 at 18:23 (585 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

volsboy1's profile picture

That's odd you bringing it up about somebody getting there arm ripped off by a washer, I have a friend who had that very thing happen to him.I don't know what he was thinking he tried to slow it down spinning and a wet towel wrapped around his arm and ripped it off at the shoulder. It ripped off his arm so fast he didn't realize what happened until it was to late. They could not reattach it this was in the 80s.

That's the strange thing though,I did not feel much pain at all  either until I woke up from surgery and my leg was gone.Worse pain in my life ,baseball bat to the shin is what it felt like.

Post# 1158822 , Reply# 14   9/5/2022 at 22:09 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Permanet Press and Delicate Combined

chetlaham's profile picture
I agree in full!

I've come to the conclusion most users assume PP is a cycle that offers a less intensive wash action for casual items. And not 10 minutes of normal agitation. So if anything, PP belongs on the delicate cycle.

GE in the mid 2000s got it right IMO. They dropped the words "Permanent Press" from the control panel and changed the cycle name to "casuals". Casuals either had low speed agitation or intermittent agitation followed by normal high speed spins.

The tech tech sheets still calls this cycle "permanent press" but it does not have any of the typical characteristics found in a permanent press cycle.

One speed models also call the delicate cycle "colors" while two speed models call this cycle "gentle" or delicate"

GE cycles have always made more sense, and I've always been under the opinion that all other washers manufacturers should have taken this approach.

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Post# 1158856 , Reply# 15   9/6/2022 at 06:42 (584 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Low Speed First Spin Of SQ Transmission Models

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This is done to reduce wrinkling if clothing was washed in hot or warm water and to reduce foam from backing up out of the drain standpipe in some homes.


This really does not make any real performance difference, you are only talking about leaving about one cup more water in a load going into the rinse cycle.


The machine is still spinning faster than a WP belt drive ever spun in this first spin.


It is funny the things us washer guys worry about but we have never had any complainant about this from a customer and in fact one of the comments I get about the TC-5s from customers is how well rinsed the clothes seem.


All that said and even though I have been involved in the sale and servicing of well over a thousand of these washers I would not have one in my home or ANY NEW TL Washer built today.


If I can't have a vintage TL washer with a Suds-Saver A modern FL machine just does so much better job.


John L.

Post# 1158871 , Reply# 16   9/6/2022 at 10:15 (584 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
older speed queens

Older speed queens always did high speed spin during heavy duty. They should've combined normal and heavy duty together. I believe it was the 2014 and older ones that always spun at high speeds. I've NEVER had any foam back out of my standpipe.

Post# 1158876 , Reply# 17   9/6/2022 at 10:44 (584 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
What I think would be really awesome

Is that todayís machines would have built in sud savers Just like the older machines used to, and itís not like everybodyís laundry sink is used for something these days, in my household itís only used as basically a shelf to put the detergent in, and plus wouldnít a machine with sad saver save the same amount of water as what a nonsense saving machine use?

Post# 1158919 , Reply# 18   9/6/2022 at 18:38 (584 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

My bet is on the suds and foam issue at the standpipe that seems to be fairly common in these machines. If it were purely for water efficiency, I doubt they would use it on the Heavy Duty cycle as well.
Could be wrong though.

Post# 1158922 , Reply# 19   9/6/2022 at 18:50 (584 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan)        

We have all brand new commercial non coin operated SQ machines at my work, and the low speed spin drives me absolutely nuts. You cannot force these machines to do any high speed spin on both spins, only the final spin and extra rinse spin will be at high speed no matter the cycle. Also, these are the same machines that have no water level selector. But exactly do they think weíre stupid and wonít notice? Most consumers will not notice because most of them have absolutely no clue how a washer even works. But us on the other hand, we cannot be fooled! What drives me the most crazy however is how they enabled the water from running when the lid is open, what is it gonna do chop a dang hand off? Like what the absolute heck were they thinking with that one? Itís just plain stupid. I believe these are base models of the commercial line we have, but im not sure if they even make these same machines with the level selector. Im just glad they are speed queens and not something elseÖ.

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Post# 1159224 , Reply# 20   9/10/2022 at 15:14 (580 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
if it were up to me...

I would force these machines to use high speed spin at all times during normal eco and heavy duty cycles. I am so sick and tired of the low speed spin. It drives me insane!

Post# 1159231 , Reply# 21   9/10/2022 at 17:11 (580 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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I can buy the overflowing standpipe theory for the slower spin as there were many, many complaints about that problem. I don't buy the wrinkling clothes theory.

Not sure why Speed Queen didn't shift the motor to a faster speed once most of the water was out of the tub ala Frigidaire Multimatic and Rollermatic style.

Post# 1159233 , Reply# 22   9/10/2022 at 17:25 (580 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
When techs and Speed Queen reps say over flowing, is it water or suds coming out? I know on my Queen that when I use high suds detergent a bit of foam will come out of the pipe once the pump starts drawing air.

I did see a few renatal properties that had Speed Queens in the coin-op laundry rooms where the sheetrock around hookup was badly water stained... A few times I even saw suds in real time coming down the wall.

Post# 1159243 , Reply# 23   9/10/2022 at 19:24 (579 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
heavy duty cycle

the low speed spin during heavy duty is stupid. If it truly does prevent wrinkling, they should've sprayed water as soon as the draining is about to finish. They should've left it on high spin.

Post# 1159248 , Reply# 24   9/10/2022 at 20:02 (579 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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I agree. My honest opinion: Permanent Press isn't a concept that is not of actually need. I think customers are looking for Fast/Fast, Slow/Fast, and Slow/Slow.

Right now I'm washing just a few items plus a pair of not very soiled jeans in my Queen and being honest I wish I could have a 10 minutes slow/fast wash vs the high speed agitation.

Actually, IMO 15 minutes of low speed agitation provides better results than 10 minutes of high speed agitation for normally soiled items.

Post# 1159286 , Reply# 25   9/11/2022 at 07:32 (579 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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As someone who experienced suds & water backing up out of the standpipe with his 542Ėthis is back when I was in the houseóI was not surprised or disappointed that the first spin on my 2017 9-Series is slow. The plumbing in this 8-plex would have no problem handling a fast pump-out & spin, but Iím with John on this one: It really doesnít affect the machineís rinsing performance, which is nothing to write home about under the best of circumstances.

Aside: After a little over 5 years of 5-7 loads per week, the machine finally experienced a cabinet-banging unbalanced load on Friday. Once a month or so, I add the very heavy mattress pad to the load of queen-sized sheets and 7 pillowcases. Surprised it hasnít occurred before now, to be honest.

My laundry pair are housed just a few steps outside my apartment in a utility room/pass-through to the back of the building and garage. I was reading the paper over a cup of coffee when I heard THUD. THUD. THUD. THUD. After about a dozen thuds, I was getting a bit annoyed at whomever in the building was causing the racket. Then it dawned on me: Thatís the Speed Queen! LOL

The better part of both sheets had gotten trapped in the deep pockets of the mattress pad, so the severity of the unbalance was understandable. The washer is on a vinyl-over wood floor and didnít move a bit during the thudding. I was impressed!

OK, thatís minutiae, I know, but figured this is the place to mention it. A great Sunday to everyone in the AW family!

Post# 1159629 , Reply# 26   9/16/2022 at 02:59 (574 days old) by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)        
Low Speed First Spin Of SQ Transmission Models

Attn: combo52

Ok, gotcha, gotcha. Thank you John for clarifying the low spin speed situation on the Speed Queen TC model.
I own 2 Speed Queen FF7ís for my use. A couple months ago I bought a Speed Queen TC-5003 for my parents because their piece of cró GE washer broke. They had to have an easy to use top loader and I was only going to buy them a Speed Queen TC mainly because of its reliability and because itís totally old school in a modern way.

It was delivered as I was heading to DC to visit them from Florida. With my time there I washed whatever I could to test it out. The first thing I did was override the safety switch. Then next was to observe its functionality. As I said, I did notice the slow spin speed going from main wash to rinse but never knew why. However, it never bothered me due to the rinse water being clean with each load I did. Any yes to all the other readers, I did do large loads of filthy towels and rags. My biggest concern with buying them the TC-5003 was the issue of possible suds overflowing from the standpipe. With my extensive, but short term usage of this machine so far there has been none. And thatís with me using Tide Hygienically clean 10x HE which is the most suds producing soap I have ever used and should be illegal. Lol! It never dawned me n me that Speed Queen intelligently redesign the first spin speed to be a lower spend speed too solve the standpipe oversizing issue without sacrificing rinsing.

I will also mention that I arrived for my visit with some of the most dirty and stain filled clothes that Iíve probably had since I was a kid due to an event that I attended on the way up there. I do not pretreat my clothes. I donít have time for all that crap. This Speed Queen TC-5003 got everything I put into it on Heavy Duty along with the Option set to Heavy absolutely and totally clean, all within 40 minutes!!

And to Frigilux on the Minnesota Prairie, the Speed Queen that got out of balance didnít move out of place because they weigh like 5000lbs or something. Lol!

Post# 1159630 , Reply# 27   9/16/2022 at 03:41 (574 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
because they weigh like 5000lbs

qsd-dan's profile picture
They weigh 196 pounds which would have been considered on the lightweight end of scale back in the day. A large capacity Maytag weighed in at 225.

Post# 1159631 , Reply# 28   9/16/2022 at 03:53 (574 days old) by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)        
27 extra pounds??

Yes, I know they weigh 298lbs. I was just being facetious. However, 27 extra pounds is really not that much more for an, old school washer from 200 years ago.

Post# 1159681 , Reply# 29   9/17/2022 at 00:25 (573 days old) by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)        
I meanÖÖ

I mean 198 not 298lbs. That would be more like my Speed Queen FF7 washer alone which comes in at 270lbs

Post# 1159716 , Reply# 30   9/17/2022 at 11:56 (573 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
I have both Maytag mvwp575gw & SQ TC5. Use spin dryer.

At first I bought the spin dryer (I have the Panda and Ninja) to cut down on machine or line dry time and to save electricity. However, another advantage is it gets the excess residue that both of the washers leave even after the final spin. I almost always use Powerwash for the Maytag and Normal Eco with Heavy Soil option for the SQ TC5.

I mostly use Tide Powder (with bleach and original) and occasionally Tide Hygienic Clean 10x (that stuff is awesome!). Line 2 for half loads and somewhere between line 3 and 4 for full loads. I also add a shot of Dawn dish detergent to some loads. No fabric softener or dryer sheets.

P.S. I really like Persil Intense fresh liquid too, but it seems like powder detergent will cause less residue build up in the long run???

The suds saver washer may save on water and detergent, but one also needs the proper wash water temp too? We never had one of the suds saver, so maybe I misunderstand how it works. It seems like you give up the wash water temp as it would cool before it was utilized again for the next load?

Post# 1159717 , Reply# 31   9/17/2022 at 12:17 (573 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        

I am probably similar in age to your parents. I went back to a top loader. Just easier to move around (if needed), use, and fix for me. The biggest difference between it and the Maytag is there are no pops and clicks as it progresses through the load. Instead it has a rhythmic sound. The suspension design is better too. With the Maytag, I stay close by and take care to balance the loads--only an issue with those odd sized things like pet beds. If it gets out of whack, I have no worries with the SQ. I am glad I got both of these as I feel the eco regulations restrictions will get worse. I actually use more water with some loads now because they did away with the water level control.

I plan to buy a new vehicle before they force electric cars on us. I would feel different if it would just convert to gasoline only after the battery was depleted. My experience with rechargeable battery stuff has not been good. It is a substantial cost of the product to replace, looses power over time, etc. That is why I refuse to buy the rechargeable hearing aids. No waiting to hear because I have to wait to recharge. Just pop a new battery, and I'm good to go for years and years not just a few years--those are some expensive "air pods" LOL. With rechargeable, devices become disposable. With that said, I love my rechargeable battery powdered weed whacker. It even has a feature that makes it easy to feed the line in. I think rechargeable battery are better utilized for that purpose for now until they get the technology and price down.

Post# 1159718 , Reply# 32   9/17/2022 at 12:41 (573 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        

ryner1988's profile picture
How do you have such good luck with powdered detergent? I found it left dusty-feeling stuff at the bottom of my wash tub, as well as stiffer feeling clothes. Then again, I was using Arm and Hammer, maybe that had something to do with it. I have some Ariel powdered detergent stored but haven't used it yet, am currently using Tide liquid with oxi. But powder is easier for me as a blind person, the scoop is way easier to deal with than the liquid cap as it makes less of a mess for me, so if powder in a different brand than I was using works, that would be great.

Post# 1159722 , Reply# 33   9/17/2022 at 13:15 (573 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

I plan to buy a new vehicle before they force electric cars on us. I would feel different if it would just convert to gasoline only after the battery was depleted. My experience with rechargeable battery stuff has not been good.
There was step-up choice when I bought my hybrid in 2014 for a power system with more electric range capacity and plug-in recharge (vs. generator recharge via engine operation).† The step-up also had a gasoline engine but doesn't need to run it as much.† The owner manual covers both models and details that the control system would monitor the gasoline supply and may after a timeframe of months run the engine when it otherwise wasn't necessary to avoid the supply going stale.† I somewhat regret now that I didn't opt for the upgrade.† I've had no trouble thus far with the high-voltage battery pack (the original 12v battery also hasn't yet been replaced).

Post# 1159737 , Reply# 34   9/17/2022 at 16:58 (573 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Powered Detergent Reply #32

combo52's profile picture

Try a better detergent like Tide Etc, Arm & Hammer is one of the worst detergents either powered or liquid.


John L.

Post# 1159738 , Reply# 35   9/17/2022 at 17:21 (573 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #34

ryner1988's profile picture
Hi John.

Yes, I am using Tide with Oxi liquid now and notice a marked improvement in washing results since I stopped using the A&H. No weird residue at the bottom of my washer anymore either. Might try the powdered version of Tide once this is gone.


Post# 1159751 , Reply# 36   9/17/2022 at 20:58 (572 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
tide hygienic clean

I use the hygienic clean pods from tide and I have no issues.

Post# 1159796 , Reply# 37   9/18/2022 at 09:09 (572 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
ryner1988, DADoES, and GELaundry4Ever

Ryner1988, I haven't noticed a dusty feeling at the bottom of either tub. I've had the Maytag for over four years now, and the SQ TC5 is a more recent purchase. I see Tide powder recommended all the time, so that is just what I mostly use. However, I have used Persil Intense Fresh Liquid and Tide Hygienic 10X Heavy duty liquid. About a year or so ago, I took the agitator off of the Maytag. There was no build up under the agitator. I also don't notice any odd smells. I think not using fabric softener, hot or warm washes (I rarely use cold only), too much detergent, and these detergents have helped.

DADoES, the hybrid cars get excellent gas mileage. It is certainly tempting to get one if the cost of replacement batteries are reduced and car can run on gas if needed. I definitely think this is one area to pay for the upgrade. Thanks for sharing your experience. When the time comes to purchase another vehicle, I would look at both gasoline only and hybrid if I still have a choice. From what I read, it makes it seem like it will be electric only. I just don't think that is practical. Time will tell.

Pods can be more expensive but do offer an easy way to dose detergent. The pod may actually work better than the liquid in the large bottle because of the combination of ingredients and that they aren't opened until ready to use. I just worry about the plastic getting stuck in the pump or on your clothes if it doesn't dissolve.

Post# 1159808 , Reply# 38   9/18/2022 at 10:11 (572 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Laundry Detergent Pods

combo52's profile picture

There is no plastic in pods and they can not possibly clog the drain pump etc.


However if you place a pod between pieces of damp laundry as the pod partly dissolves they can cause clothing to get sort of glued together so you need to be mindful of how you use them.


John L.

Post# 1160102 , Reply# 39   9/21/2022 at 22:17 (568 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
laundry pods

I always place laundry pods in the machine before clothes to all the agitator to stir them.

Post# 1183644 , Reply# 40   6/28/2023 at 14:29 (289 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen at Independence Manor

The Speed Queen washers at Independence Manor where I live do the exact same thing on the normal cycle. The downy balls I use don't open, therefore I have to stay near the machines to open them as a result. This is so stupid! And yes, I use the heavy soil to get a deep rinse.

Post# 1183645 , Reply# 41   6/28/2023 at 14:41 (289 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

I prefer fast/fast for sturdy items of various soil types, and I don't buy the foaming standpipe nonsense. I have NEVER had this issue before. The last time I used a Speed Queen that had high speed spin through and through during the normal cycle was in 2008.

Post# 1183653 , Reply# 42   6/28/2023 at 15:41 (289 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Suds-locking standpipes are rather common with older designed Speed Queen washers. Cruise around Google/YouTube and you'll find many complaints.

Post# 1183672 , Reply# 43   6/28/2023 at 19:16 (288 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I find that my standpipe suds a bit only when I used way to much detergent. With the right amount its never an issue for me. Perhaps people are using way to much detergent or the plumbing is not up to code?

Post# 1183836 , Reply# 44   6/30/2023 at 17:01 (287 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
cycle sequence

So how does one differentiate the cycles based on the cycle sequence alone due to that slow speed spin during the heavy duty cycle or ones that have just a normal cycle with the machine at heavy soil? The ones at my apartment do this even when set to normal. There are only 3 cycles on mine (delicate, permanent press, and finally normal). I mean, seriously! It always intrigues me as to why. I still don't get it. WHY!?! Who do they think they're fooling? I've never, and I repeat, NEVER! Had a problem with suds from the standpipe on any of them, let alone any other make and model!

Post# 1183838 , Reply# 45   6/30/2023 at 17:58 (287 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Jerome, other people have experiences different than yours.† Whirlpool direct-drive washers drain at a faster rate than old-style belt-drives.† There were instances of delivering a new direct-drive as replacement for a belt-drive, the standpipe overflowed during drain on the test run.† Maybe from clogging, maybe from a restriction due to the size of the plumbing.† It wasn't our problem to figure that out.† I learned after the first incident to listen for water gurgling up in the standpipe for a potential overflow and stop it before a flood occurred.† A workaround to finish the installation test was switch to slow spin to get the water drained.† We advised the customer accordingly to call a plumber or whatever was required on their part to solve the problem.† There were a couple instances of delivery to a garage or out-building installation with the customer not home so we left a written note.

Post# 1183932 , Reply# 46   7/1/2023 at 15:51 (286 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
laundry day

Today was laundry day. I used the Speed Queen machines and observed them. Sure enough, it did that low speed spin after wash. I thought I had it set to normal! And it did the early spray rinse too. The rinse water was clean nevertheless, but still! I used the heavy soil to get a deep rinse.

Post# 1183953 , Reply# 47   7/1/2023 at 21:52 (285 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
low speed spin after wash

Plus, wash water extraction of extra heavy fabrics like jeans and towels suffer because of the low speed spin after wash. It was stupid of Speed Queen to do that. I wish I was a fly on the wall so I can balk at the engineers for making that stupid decision to do that. It should go into high speed at every single spin on normal and heavy duty, like I said. I am not stupid, nor will I be fooled. I bet every dime in my wallet that everybody will have skin rashes due to this. Watch! I'll wait!

Post# 1183954 , Reply# 48   7/1/2023 at 22:51 (285 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Sadly, there is the real world. Its easier to have the washer drain slow than to tell the customer they're using to much detergent or need to spend thousands on a plumber, especially when their previous washer didn't exhibit standpipe foaming. 

Post# 1184043 , Reply# 49   7/3/2023 at 09:00 (284 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
What GE did?

Speed Queen should've done what GE did. What they could've done is do a neutral drain, then start on slow for a minute, then shift to high speed spin. My previous GE did that. It was the post filter-flo.

Post# 1184315 , Reply# 50   7/7/2023 at 07:26 (280 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Neutral Drain

chetlaham's profile picture

Very bad idea. The water washes up and away during spin drain preventing crud, scum and lint from redepositing around the outer tub, inner tub and agitator. Every washer that I've used with neutral drain develops scum rings around the agi and washtub. Things being left behind on fabric was more prevalent. Clothes also end up being clumped at the bottom wrinkled instead of being spread out across the wash-basket wall at the end of the cycle. You need a reasonably fast spin during draining which accelerates relative to the amount of water still being pumped out.


The pump out rate itself would have to be reduced, which is what a low speed spin is trying to accomplish. This is wear switching to high should come into play after the low speed spin-drain.

Post# 1184316 , Reply# 51   7/7/2023 at 07:56 (280 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
speed queen powerful motor

Speed Queen washers do have powerful motors. I ran one of them with bleach and hot water and the machine had very strong turbulence. The pump was also powerful especially on high speed spin.

Post# 1184326 , Reply# 52   7/7/2023 at 10:50 (280 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Neutral drain top loaders

combo52's profile picture
Neutral drain machines donít get any dirtier than spin drain machines and the clothing gets cleaner.

But worst offenders for scum and sludge, buildup or Ge Filter FlowĎs Maytag later LAT models, etc.

Every top loading washer in the world that has the capability of a neutral drain uses it, because engineers know it works better.

And Iím sure you know that Speed Queen sells their traditional transmission washers with an electric drain pump in countries where people donít use clothes dryers much because of the problem with lint and grit being re-deposited by the spin drain.

Facts are facts.

Itís time to get your emotions out of engineering.


Post# 1184335 , Reply# 53   7/7/2023 at 12:15 (280 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)        

How would a neutral drain machine get the clothes cleaner?

Post# 1184336 , Reply# 54   7/7/2023 at 12:36 (280 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Speed Queen motors are rated 1/2HP, and have a centrifugal controlled start winding with a capacitor in series which provides a fast, powerful "kick" upon start up. Pump out rate is excellent, I even removed the molded reducing orifice at the end of drain hose when I installed my Speed Queen washer in late 2013. 


I think all top load washers should have at least a 1/2 HP drain pump, and ideally a 3/4 HP drive motor- minimum. A separate drain pump is a reliability issue in part due to their lack of torque. My top load 1997 GE washers had the 180 watt Italian pump, and I remember after two years the pump started to do this thing where it would slow down during drain. You could hear it. (I'm guessing threads wrapped around the impeller shaft did this based on pumps I took out at an apartment scrap pile.) The tub would start to spin while still full of water, the pressure switch would trip, re-start spin, over and over. You think that with the presence of a clutch on the motor shaft there wouldn't be a need to run the spin circuit through the pressure switch, but apparently if you hold the water level knob interim keeping the switch in fill mode the spin would cause water to come out the over-flow pipe. Funny that did not happen with the filter flos... Put a shield above the motor, ditch the overflow pipe, bring down the water/suds drag honey combs on the inner tub, attach the drain pump directly to the drive motor, beef up the clutch a bit, Goodyear belt and then maybe the Model Ts would resemble an attempt at a clothes washer. 


The Models had one redeeming quality (if I can allow myself to say such a thing) in that if you turned off the drain pump while in spin the machine was very quiet. A pump attached to the main motor would have preserved most of that tranquility. But the drain pump was so noisy gargling while vibrating the base pan it undid everything making the washer the loudest appliance in the house.  

Post# 1184344 , Reply# 55   7/7/2023 at 14:13 (280 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

And maybe they should just beef up the agitation like on previous models. What do you think?

Post# 1184353 , Reply# 56   7/7/2023 at 16:15 (280 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Bigger transmission, long stroke agitation. A third port on the pump going back up via hose to a flume in the tub cover.


The one major draw back regarding the filter flos was the amount of water between the inner and outer tubs. In theory the could have combined the two into one suspended unit, then hung it from 4 rods like the model Ts. Porcelain on steel outer tub, stainless steal or porcelain speckled inner tub.


I still don't like the hanging concept all that much, perhaps a milk stool suspension like Speed Queen. Or a 4 point corner design I once theorized. The Filter Flo could have been re-designed into a real washer. Though the original design would always have a charm of its own.

Post# 1184371 , Reply# 57   7/7/2023 at 20:52 (279 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
strokes per minute

I remember the GE filter-flo agitated at 100 strokes per minute while the later models agitated at 154 strokes per minute. This was at normal speed. What are your thoughts?

Post# 1184405 , Reply# 58   7/8/2023 at 06:26 (279 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I like 100 SPM. 63 SPM like on the older Maytags is fine too. Fewer strokes but with longer arcs is my preference.

Post# 1196433 , Reply# 59   1/2/2024 at 08:22 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

What sounds would've you have liked to have heard instead of that shrieking double knock?

Post# 1196600 , Reply# 60   1/6/2024 at 15:52 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Oh! The hum of the motor and agitator sloshing water around. Some light knocking of course as the pawl or tub break keeps the tub stationary. The rest should be silent. No need to the suspension to be part of the wash action.

Post# 1196620 , Reply# 61   1/6/2024 at 20:37 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

I agree fully. As for the pump running during wash, I'd like to hear that sound as air rushes through, or better yet when both air and water rush through.

Post# 1196623 , Reply# 62   1/6/2024 at 20:50 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Running the pump during wash theoretically pushes detergent back into the tub. Vintage machines were perfect in the way they were designed.

Post# 1199658 , Reply# 63   2/19/2024 at 00:16 by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)        
Slow Spin Speeds

Out of total due respect to all the comments here, I do appreciate the passion that people are having towards the SQís lower spin speed from main to first. I think it would help to lower the temp a little bit. Lol! As I previously mentioned, I do own the TC-5003. I am not loyal to any brand due to things possibly changing on a dime in any corporate which may mean not for the best. I do very much appreciate very well built products preferably made in the USA first and foremost.

After my TC-5003 arrived, the first thing I noticed was the slower main to first spin speed. I am a perfectionist. After many loads done and critically observing the rinse water. It was very apparent to me that the speed of the first spin was definitely sufficient in providing a clean rinse.

Letís also keep in mind that the SQ TC-5003 has a top spin speed of 710. Thatís a top speed of the final spin. A lot of washers, not all, in that class of top loaders, as in old school agitators, filling all the way up w/ water and traditional agitation and functionality have a top spin speed in the final spin of somewhere around 500-550 such as but not limited to WP DD.

Age wise, Iím a half a century. I have used all sorts of top loaders ranging from washers made in the 50ís to recent. All of them have had a shorter in time and somewhat slower main to first spin. So letís keep in mind that if youíre observing the final spin of the current or recent SQ top loader which is faster then most but not all and comparing it to the first spin it may seem like itís a lot slower than before however itís most likely relatively similar to what itís always been. In other words, SQ top loaders have faster final spins than most which may give the appearance that they drastically changed the first spin to a slower speed. I will say it does seem like itís been slowed ďsomeĒ but definitely not a lot to write home to Mom and Dad about.

Keep in mind to, the drain pipe suds overflow is a real and can be an expensive issue it damage to flooring or whatever occurs. Also keep in mind what ĎCombo 52í said. He said it happens in, ďSome duelings,Ē that heís serviced. So, Iím very glad that some people on here have never had to deal or experience that. However, for others itís been a big issue.

Iím very appreciative that SQ fixed the standpipe over sudsing issue with what seems to be a slightly slower first spin speed. I havenít noticed any difference in any kind of quality of wash or rinse. The damn thing does an awesome bang up job through and through!! The rinse is perfect! My parents who use this washer on a semi daily basis have zero complaints. It is hooked up to a stand pipe and there is no overflow of suds or whatever. I got this washer for them so I donít have to hear their whinny voices complain about a cheep, decrepit washer they choose to buy thatís not working or cleaning! All issues stopped for me and them the day the SQ TC-5003 arrived! No joke!

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