Thread Number: 91409
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold |
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Post# 1159214 , Reply# 1   9/10/2022 at 13:29 (885 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1159221 , Reply# 2   9/10/2022 at 15:03 (885 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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Commercial OPL Speed Queens may still offer a timer:
speedqueencommercial.com/en-us/p... Other than that, not to my knowledge. That last EM appliance (except for a few clothes dryers) was just discontinued not long ago. If everyone was like me, EM timers would not only be around today but make up of 98% of all appliances including microwave ovens. Considering it only takes a handful of sequences to drive a quality appliance electronics are of absolutely no practicality, benefit or gain. |
Post# 1159222 , Reply# 3   9/10/2022 at 15:04 (885 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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Post# 1159234 , Reply# 4   9/10/2022 at 17:44 (885 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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i also suggest going vintage with eather a whirlpool direct drive mecanical timer washer dryer set or vintage belt drive set like in these pics first pic ge filter flo with mini basket if you have small loads
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Post# 1159254 , Reply# 5   9/10/2022 at 21:56 (884 days old) by RickC (New Jersey)   |   | |
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I thought that might be the situation. I will try again to see if she will consider vintage. I know that's what I would prefer, but she's fixated on new. |
Post# 1159262 , Reply# 6   9/11/2022 at 00:13 (884 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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![]() The best solution I've found to make electronic timers, and electronic devices in general, last and operate problem free is to simply unplug them or some how turn off the electricity to the device when not in use. Give them at least a half an hour per day not energized. |
Post# 1159264 , Reply# 7   9/11/2022 at 00:55 (884 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1159266 , Reply# 8   9/11/2022 at 01:39 (884 days old) by petek ![]() |
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Hmmm there's maybe something in that unplugging of the washer..Know of any studies.. It's easy for me to unplug the washer, the dryer is a little more not worth it because the big plug isn't easly accessible it's a 30 odd year old Kenmore with a mechanical times and only required one belt replacement over 16 years ago.. Runs like a champ, chips, scrapes and scratches and all.
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Post# 1159296 , Reply# 10   9/11/2022 at 09:04 (884 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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Are used to blame every single failure mod and are largely a myth.
1st of all a plugging or unplugging something does not create a voltage spike. Power being restored does not create a voltage spike. Switching on/off devices around the home does not create a voltage spike. 2nd the overwhelming majority of voltage spikes or over voltage events come from either incidental contact between high voltage and low voltage lines (7,200 volt falling into a 120/240 volt secondary), open service neutrals, or direct lightning hits on or close to the home. 3rd it does not matter what type of surge protection you have. A direct lightning hit, open neutral or sustainted 7,200 volts on MOVs will cause them to burn up leaving what ever is being protected unprotected. The majority of fires and electronic failures come from cheap poorly made boards and connectors which have no taken moisture into account. |
Post# 1159319 , Reply# 12   9/11/2022 at 13:50 (884 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() I've heard-said that computers are more likely to fail electrically at power-on, but there are mechanicals involved (cooling fans and hard drive motors) so it's one's personal decision whether/when to power-off (or fully disconnect from power) to split the difference on mechanical wear. A local long-time computer dealer (and owner of the ISP where I worked for 9 years) once said "would you leave your car running continuously?" ... which is a point but also not quite the same thing, and he never shut off his store-office and and sale-display computers (of course the ISP servers were required to run continuously). My desktop computers are on UPS units, run continuously unless I'm out of the house for more than a day. My audio/video (including the now 20yo Panasonic plasma panel) is on a Panamax power conditioner, never fully disconnected from power source. |
Post# 1159320 , Reply# 13   9/11/2022 at 14:12 (884 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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Power systems can be modeled as a series of equivalent impedances (resistors, inductors, capacitors) in series. Assuming worse case scenarios:
1) A typical 25kva pole transformer can deliver about 14,876 amps of fault current at 120 volts. Page 6: 146.126.90.208/business/services/... Using ohms law, R=V/I, or 120 volts divided by 14,876 = 0.00807 ohms. 2) 1 AWG AL wire @ 75*C has an AC resistance of 0.2 ohms per 1000 feet. 0.2/1000= 0.0002 ohms per foot. A 50 foot 1 AWG service drop has an AC resistance of 0.02 ohms taking into account both the line and neutral. 3) 14 AWG copper @75*C has a resistance of 3.1 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.0031 ohms per foot. 75 feet of romoex run from the home's panel to an outlet is 0.0031 x 75 x 2= 0.465 ohms Adding 0.00807 + 0.02 + 0.465 = 0.49 ohms of resistance. Voltage drop is computed as current times resistance. So, a 12 amp space heater would be 12 amps x 0.5 ohms = 6 volts dropped from the transformer to the heater's outlet. 120-6 = 114 volts. Typically the measured voltage would be around 117 volts at the outlet as the romex and service drop doesn't actually operate at 167*F; rather I am using these extremes to prove a point. 114 volts while less than 120 is technically legal and will not harm any appliances as neither would 126 volts on the high end. See page 2: www.pge.com/includes/docs... |
Post# 1159321 , Reply# 14   9/11/2022 at 14:19 (884 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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Do not burn out due to the power supply. Rather there are two factors. First cold light bulbs will have a much lower resistance due to the electrical resistance of any metal varying with temperature. A cold bulb will pull much more current than a fully lit bulb. Second metal expands and becomes stressed when heating up. These two things, especially the stress on a thinned, weakened tungsten elements can cause it to break.
It is not uncommon for a broken element to cause the inert gas in the bulb to ionize as the two broken points on the hot element act like electrodes. Once the gas in the bulb ionizes, an arc forms across the leads, and due to the lack of ballast in essentially what has now become an arc discharge lamp, ever increasing amount of current are drawn until the fuse wires at the base of the socket melt. But not first without a bright blue flash. Someone like Tolivic could explain it better then I can, but thats kind of it in a nut shell. |
Post# 1159329 , Reply# 15   9/11/2022 at 16:12 (884 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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"Speed Queen claims their boards are as reliable as their old mechanical controls."
That doesn't say much since the reliability on their mechanical timers were sort of iffy on the 400 and 500 series washers that get used by the typical 4 person household with at least 1 pet. The TC5000 washers had tons of board failures which supposedly was fixed on the TC5003 models. The TR series had issued from what I read elsewhere. Their front loaders had board failures which can be seen in this older thread: www.automaticwasher.org/c... Anybody can make claims, it's real world results out in the field that speak for themselves. |
Post# 1159361 , Reply# 17   9/12/2022 at 00:56 (883 days old) by ea56 ![]() |
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They are freaking electrical appliances! They are meant to be plugged into the power source. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been buying appliances for well over 50 years. And not once have I ever read an owners manual that told me that I’d better unplug it periodically if i expected it to operate properly and/or last a reasonable length of time.
Now I have read manuals that advise to unplug an appliance if it isn’t operating properly to reset the electronic board, but this is meant to be the exception, not the rule. And something that only began being suggested from say 2000 on when electronic control boards first began to be used in most new appliances. I’ll bet the rent that no one ever had to unplug any appliance periodically from the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s or 90’s to expect it to operate properly. Yes, old time electro mechanical timer controls failed from time to time, but they sure as hell weren’t as temperamental as some of the newer electronic control boards are. And I also realize that this is the way that new appliances are manufactured now, so I can either move with the times or not. So I move with the times but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. Old queen rant over. Eddie |
Post# 1159362 , Reply# 18   9/12/2022 at 00:56 (883 days old) by Chetlaham ![]() |
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Voltage drop, or ohms law, has everything to do with voltage fluctuations. It is why the measurable voltage at any outlet rises and falls through out the day.
Utilities will often boost voltage at the substation (through transformer tap changers) to off set voltage drop in distribution lines so customers at the end of the line miles out are within acceptable limits. 125 volts is not unheard of for homes near a substation. As distribution lines and wiring within the home gets loaded down during peak demand, voltage can dip down to 115 volts, then creep back up to 125 volts as things are switched off. This variant is normal and will not harm any electronics. Spikes, which are technically called either voltage transients or voltage swells essentially can not occur unless some very adverse condition is taking place. Day to day activities like switching on appliances or light bulbs will not cause them. I think what you are thinking of are themro dynamic related aspects- circuit boards may expand slightly as they heat up; then contract as they cool off. With failures most often making themselves known this change is taking place. This is different from anything going on with the voltage or current at the outlet. |
Post# 1159366 , Reply# 21   9/12/2022 at 02:35 (883 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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"So the question is, does unplugging appliances help make electronic boards last longer, or is it detrimental, or does it make no difference."
I don't think it's detrimental at all. If you live in an area that gets regular lighting storms or brownouts, then it's definitely a good idea. Obviously, you can't do this with a fridge or freezer. You will be replacing outlets at a much faster rate with all of the plugging/unplugging cycles. If you want to go into OCD mode, you could hook them up to a well made UPS with a pure sine wave inverter. |
Post# 1159367 , Reply# 22   9/12/2022 at 02:42 (883 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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![]() Evidence this works?
And if a manufacturer can program in cheap electronic timers so customers have problems....you know the game.
It's also nice to know your electronics are protected from power surges, brown outs, black outs, and lightning strikes. |
Post# 1159368 , Reply# 23   9/12/2022 at 02:58 (883 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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![]() A refrigerator with an electronic timer: one can simply install an appliance timer at the plug.
Program it to turn off for 15 to 30 minutes in the middle of the night when no one will be opening the door. That period of time is not enough to affect the temperature.
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Post# 1159369 , Reply# 24   9/12/2022 at 03:15 (883 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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![]() Cel phones were/are going through a trend of trying to make the battery difficult or impossible to remove.
Why?
In the now struggling and saturated cel phone market, this was a stupid decision, and just gives another reason not to "upgrade".
Not only will it make these devices more difficult to recycle, it's going to frustrate consumers who want/need to do a quick battery swap.
So why do it? I think its probably because they know they can program in simple viruses that are easily removed by de-energizing (removing the battery) and thus people would be more inclined to buy new when they're having a problem. It's also because the policing agencies have installed tracking devices in phones that, when de-energized, stop working.
I WON'T be buying a product without a removable battery or that can't be modified to get access to said battery. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1159381 , Reply# 26   9/12/2022 at 10:49 (883 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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If a storm is coming by all means unplug valuable or expensive appliances. A direct lightning hit will go through anything and everything, including a few millimeters of air in an open toggle switch.
But other than that I'm not skirting as IMO there is absolutely nothing to worry about. To answer your question I would say that unplugging appliances is more likely to lead to premature failures as components like resistors, transformers, transistors, solider joints, heat up when powered in a circuit and cool down when not. The constant heating and cooling cycle leads to stress, fatigue and eventual failure. If you don't believe me look at the discoloration sometimes found around surface mount components. Measure the temps of discrete components on a microwave clock circuit board after its been plugged in for several hours vs when its been unplugged for a few hours. For example, the little 2 watt transformer will probably be painfully hot in 30 minutes. This is normal, most components are economized and run near there max power dissipation. Having them go through 24 hour thermal cycles for years on end just accelerates the degradation of said components. But, I will be honest and give you my reasoning I use in my own home: What ever is gained (be it energy savings or longevity) by unplugging appliances is dwarfed by the risk of fire. Plugs and outlets, in particular 50 cent residential grade receptacles, lose the ability to hold plugs rather quickly when routinely subjected to inserting and removing cord caps. This leads to poor electrical contact where eventually a high resistance connection forms. High resistance creates heat (aka joule heating) and heat makes fire. Any service electrician can tell you of all the day to day service calls replacing melty or burned receptacles. The thing is, most folks don't replace the the cord cap(s) that were mating while the outlet was getting hot. So the oxides that for formed on the blades of the cord cap leads to overheating in the new outlet creating a revolving door of melty outlets. (I do make an exception for things like irons, where I changed the outlet at the ironing board to an industrial or hospital grade version that can hold up routine plugging and unplugging) Other than that just plug it in and forget about it. Just my 2 cents :) |
Post# 1159385 , Reply# 27   9/12/2022 at 12:38 (883 days old) by ryner1988 ![]() |
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@bradfordwhite, don't some higher end electronics automatically power everything down when not in use for several minutes? I'm thinking of more advanced modern washers such as those made by LG that have a power button which turns on all the displays and such. I'm not talking about the cheap electro-rotary controls on BOL modern washers like the VMW Whirlpools. I had one and I can tell you that you are right, that thing was charged up all the time. The lid lock would engage if the lid was closed and I turned off the bathroom light. The washer was presumably off but something was obviously still running.
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Post# 1159386 , Reply# 28   9/12/2022 at 12:49 (883 days old) by ea56 ![]() |
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My “cheap” BOL Roper VMW washer has a “start” button that powers it on. I’ve never had the lid lock on its own with the machine off.
In three years of owning and using it I have twice needed to unplug it to reset the electronic control board and this hasn’t been a problem at all. I’m not a complete Luddite. I actually do like the electronic control board on my new GE electric range. But I’d be just as pleased with analog controls and an automatic oven function controlled by a clock as opposed to the electronic control board. Time will tell whether or no this electronic control board will have a long service life, i hope that it does. Eddie |
Post# 1159387 , Reply# 29   9/12/2022 at 13:04 (883 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() Electronic controls are always powered to an extent in sleep-mode unless the device of question has a mechanical "hard" power-off switch that disconnects current to the main board. There's no other way the device can instantly wake-up to full function when a knob is turned, a membrane button is pressed, or a capacitive-touchpad is tickled. |
Post# 1159388 , Reply# 30   9/12/2022 at 13:17 (883 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Example of an electronic appliance with a hard wired disconnect.
Oster Kitchen center from around 1982
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Post# 1159389 , Reply# 31   9/12/2022 at 13:30 (883 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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"sleep-mode" just means the main appliance components aren't running and power to the LED screen is off.
The main computer is still ON, using electric, and susceptible to damages. My much liked electronic air conditioner controller is always on even though the LED is off. Even when the screen is dark it still gives off a bit of heat and when you plug it in, it makes a beep sound. Whenever I plug in my electronic Air Fry oven it beeps but there is no lights on the LED screen. Some computers, when first plugging them in, the power lights will flash briefly but the computer won't come on until you push the power button. -------- For whoever stated that powering up an electronic timer/controller is enough to cause it to fail- NO. If that happened it's because the piece was already damaged, probably from being left in the ON position for too long. |
Post# 1159390 , Reply# 32   9/12/2022 at 13:42 (883 days old) by ryner1988 ![]() |
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Eddie,
For me, that strangeness with the lid lock usually happened when the machine would finish a load, the lid had unlocked but I hadn't yet opened the lid to remove the laundry. Someone would turn the bathroom light off at this point, and sometimes the lid would relock. Was kind of a PITA to get it back open. Aside from this, I will say the machine gave me very few issues until it died a few months ago. Didn't much care for the sound of it, but apparently that's an irritation unique to me as others don't seem to have the problem. Or maybe I just had a particularly noisy machine. Ryne |
Post# 1159464 , Reply# 33   9/13/2022 at 11:26 (882 days old) by kb0nes ![]() |
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I can't imagine settling for the mediocrity of a simple mechanical timer today. Giving up the advantages of sensors and control capability based on some notion that they will last longer seems short sighted. I'll take the electronic controls over a timer for longevity today anytime. My electronic Kitchenaid DW is at least 25 years old now and that control works perfectly as it always has.
As for unplugging electronics or gosh powering off a cell phone daily (??!!), that is the best chuckle I've had today. I've owned 4 cell phones total since 1998 and never turned off a one of them! Never a failure on any of them... They don't need to rest Surges are blamed for scads of electronics failures, but really seldom ever cause any damage. Put a whole house impulse suppressor in the service panel and don't worry about it anymore. |
Post# 1159491 , Reply# 35   9/13/2022 at 18:46 (882 days old) by ea56 ![]() |
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I had to upgrade my LG flip phone early this year because Tracfone, which is now owned by Verizon no longer uses the 3G network. I got an Alcatel Flip phone that uses the 4G network and I like it just fine. My husband had to do the same thing two months ago, and he went with the same Alcatel flip phone as I did.
Eddie CLICK HERE TO GO TO ea56's LINK |
Post# 1159496 , Reply# 36   9/13/2022 at 19:05 (882 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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My AT&T LG B470 I paid $20 for at Walmart in 2016 has been a super trooper all this time. Never had a problem. It worked on both ATT and T-Mobile.
Earlier this year ATT shut down their 3G so it no longer will work with ATT. I had already upgraded to a smart phone about a year earlier and so glad I did but I kept the phone for texting only and still have it on T-Mobile. Found out that in Oct They will be shutting their 3G network. ;-(... That's progress.
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Post# 1159504 , Reply# 38   9/13/2022 at 19:40 (882 days old) by ea56 ![]() |
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I hardly ever use my Tracfone. I’ve had a Tracfone since 2002 and I have over 7000 mins of airtime. I just take it with me when I leave the home for a walk or to drive somewhere, since there aren’t pay phones around in most places now. I only use it for emergencies or when I need to text for some business or medical need.
I guess that makes me a semi-Luddite, LOL! My Tracfone Flip phone has internet capability, but I don’t use it. What’s good about Tracfone is no monthly bill. I just buy a 1 year airtime and service card every year, and as long as my service stays active the airtime mins accumulate and are retained. I maybe make 10 calls a year on it, if that. Before I had unlimited long distance on my home phone I made all my long distance calls on the Tracfone, and even at that I never needed to add any mins between my annual card renewal. Eddie This post was last edited 09/13/2022 at 20:38 |
Post# 1159505 , Reply# 39   9/13/2022 at 19:41 (882 days old) by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)   |   | |
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I guess the only thing about Ma Bell Princess phones is that they generally weren't that easy to just unplug each night to give them a rest. |
Post# 1159512 , Reply# 41   9/13/2022 at 20:34 (882 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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It's like we've approached the real life Grizzly Adams.
Never dealt with cel phones. Doesn't know that AT&T hasn't wired phones direct since the 60s given the modular plugs. Cuts wood "in the mountains". Doesn't realize a Princess phone is not electronic and thus doesn't need to be disconnected. The Life and Times of Grizzly Adams Yet you've managed to meander to a computer randomly found under a brush pile, found this website, and you know what a Princess phone is. hmmmmmmm. Are you still wanted by the law? Oh, the DRAMA!
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