Thread Number: 91458  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Speed Queen Front Load With Heater?
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Post# 1159752   9/17/2022 at 21:13 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Does this Speed Queen front load washer have a built in heater? It mentions having a sanitize cycle, which the manual says is 60 minutes long in wash duration. Does this mean the water is heated to 180*F?

Post# 1159755 , Reply# 1   9/17/2022 at 21:43 (584 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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Post# 1159771 , Reply# 2   9/18/2022 at 01:11 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Sad! I wanted a heater!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SQ is losing sales by not having a heater.

Post# 1159772 , Reply# 3   9/18/2022 at 01:15 (584 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Well a heater is an extra thing that can break, I'm betting Speed Queen wanted to avoid that to try and make it as reliable as they can.

Post# 1159773 , Reply# 4   9/18/2022 at 02:01 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Thats true, you've got one component to fail. And one more gasket that could leak.

I'd personally take the risk, but I could see why Speed Queen wouldn't.

Post# 1159774 , Reply# 5   9/18/2022 at 02:04 (584 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Chet, you have to follow the instructions in the user manual for this SQ Sanitize with Oxi. It's a prolonged wash phase, deeper rinses, longer spins if I remember correctly.

And I agree, makes me mad SQi so arrogant. And I get better results in a front loader with an onboar heater and very high wash water temps.

Post# 1159778 , Reply# 6   9/18/2022 at 02:24 (584 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        
SQ is losing sales by not having a heater.

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The average citizen is totally clueless about internal water heaters and their strong importance to delivering clean laundry in front loaders. There's no way I'd own a front loader without an internal heater or a top loader without a tempering valve.

Post# 1159780 , Reply# 7   9/18/2022 at 04:59 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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I get the feeling this is simply a super heavy duty cycle. I'm not sure how well oxi works, but I've always been under the impression a true sani cycle gets temps over 180*F.

Speed Queen is arrogant I regret to say. I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt until they started deleting and rigging reviews while silencing dissenting voices. How the TR series is still in existence is beyond me.

I've actually been debating of switching to a SQ FL to save on what will probably ever increasing utility prices beyond 2022, but now I'm left to think I might be better off with what I have.

My water heater is some distance between where its located in the basement and the upstairs laundry room. With the low water charge, metal drums and king size load I can see the wash temps never exceeding 110*F I don't want to purge lines or set the water heater any higher than its at (145*F).

Post# 1159788 , Reply# 8   9/18/2022 at 08:20 (584 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
Why not

Put a small instantaneous heater to boost the hot water temperature? I that way you can boost it up to 180 if you so desperately want to, itís the closest thing you can do to manually installing a heater in a speed queen washing machine

Post# 1159798 , Reply# 9   9/18/2022 at 09:34 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Eh, thats cost (heater, installation, plumbing, electrical) where a simple FL heater or a top load basket would do.

Post# 1159799 , Reply# 10   9/18/2022 at 09:37 (584 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
I actually donít think they would make such a thing like tha

If they do Iím surprised, because I wish that such a thing would be standard

Post# 1159802 , Reply# 11   9/18/2022 at 09:44 (584 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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The thing the US has to realize being that if they wish to remain a super power they must put down their ego and take evidence based solutions into account that aren't always their own. Meaning since heaters have been such a success in Europe at producing clean laundry with less energy US manufacturers need to begin adding heaters to all front load washers.

Post# 1159804 , Reply# 12   9/18/2022 at 09:55 (584 days old) by Golittlesport (California)        

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with the exception of Speed Queen, I think all major manufacturers of front load washers in US have models with internal water heaters

Post# 1159805 , Reply# 13   9/18/2022 at 10:01 (584 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

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You're forgetting several bits of facts.

First and foremost in Europe and many other areas outside of North America 208v-240v power dominates. In some cases domestic settings can or could get 400v power. As such washing machines heating their own water was a no brainer. Any worth their salt could take tap cold water from northern areas of Europe in winter and quickly reach near or boil wash temps.

United States and Canada for that matter when with top loading washers coupled with liberal use of chlorine bleach for whitening, stain removal and sanitizing. Thus need for very hot or boiling water really didn't exist in domestic settings. More to point with top loading automatics that used huge amounts of water for washing heater wouldn't have been practical.

Last bit brings up point that you can only extract so much electric power from a 120v/15amp outlet. Upping things to 20amp increases things a bit, but most laundry areas in USA have 120v/15amp ready. Before anyone starts not all homes have a 220v dryer electrical outlet. Especially in areas where natural gas dominates for any sort of heating purposes.

SQ front loaders are for all intent and purposes OPL/commercial/laundromat washers under the bonnet. That's the whole point. Those wanting a robust, no nonsense front loading washer that's built to last will go with SQ. These machines may have shorter cycles, don't heat water, and so forth but make up for that with a bit more aggressive wash action (in normal/cottons at least), and get through a wash cycle in < 40 mins. OTOH my European washers allot almost an hour for rinsing and final spin alone for some cycles.

SQ did offer a washer with heater early on, and IIRC it did not do well in sales. That might have been because it merely boosted incoming hot water to 120F or 140F, cannot recall which.

SQ does not sell commercial/OPL/laundromat washers with internal electric heaters, not in North America anyway. Laundromat/commercial washers can be fitted with steam heating capability, but that's another matter.

Post# 1159825 , Reply# 14   9/18/2022 at 13:37 (584 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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As I have said numerous times before, Americans have been brainwashed with dumbed down water temperatures and energy star guidelines. I've always had in the back of my mind my house is wired as 208V. I've not really paid much attention to it until the LG washer arrived last fall. The Duet never really struggled to get to 127F/158F on Whites and Sanitize temps. But Allergen and Heavy Duty did and I just dind't attribute it to those cycles incorporating the stepped temperture rises and the 208V. The first two always had a cooldown at the end of the heaviest soil levels and that wasn't always the case for the other two, so I just used the first two cycles (after all if a cooldown tempering of wash water dind't happen, that meant it didn't get to 125F). But the LG apparently has a waeker heater. It does pretty well to get to temps of 62C on the heaviest soil levels using Extra Hot for the allotted time on specified cycles. But it takes an additional 30-45 minutes to get from 63C to 70C-72C and fortunately I have a downloaded cycle that gives me that additional 30-45 minutes default on heaviest soil level.

And the 2015 Kenmore Elite dishwasher seemed to always add 15-20 minutes during the main wash cycle to make sure it reached the target water temperature it sensed it needed for heavy soil.

Post# 1159923 , Reply# 15   9/19/2022 at 14:17 (583 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
On wash day, turn up water heater?

I know this would not be an option for all. There is no automatic temperature control with Speed Queen. I am fortunate that I have a gas water heater. I would just turn it up as needed. I have been leaving mine at 120, and it seems to work for me. With that said, this definitely would pose a scald risk to hh with small children, disabled, and elderly.

Front load washers use so little water anyway, tap hot should be tap hot.

I really feel part of the reason my LG was so good at eliminating odors like mildew and diaper-type loads is the heated water. I have this one item that nothing has worked, I may turn up the water heater to see if that does the trick. Nothing including ofor out, bleach, or Lysol sanitizer has worked. I am definitely interested in getting the Laundry Alternatives portable with internal heater just for whites and those loads I described.

Post# 1159924 , Reply# 16   9/19/2022 at 14:19 (583 days old) by kenc (SF Bay Area)        

As one of those people who is "totally clueless about the importance of a water heater", I sure do get tired of people droning on about them as if it is impossible to get clean clothes without one. Our F&P top loader didn't have one, our SQ top loader did not have one and our SQ front loader doesn't have one and yet we have always had bright clean clothes. I wonder how we do it?

Post# 1159933 , Reply# 17   9/19/2022 at 16:56 (582 days old) by Stainfighter (Columbia, SC)        

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I buy from Amazon a generic enzyme liquid.
Use about 1/2 cup when cleaning a load of washable dog pee pads.
Eliminates the odors every time for me👍🏻👍🏻 in our no-heater LG

Post# 1159949 , Reply# 18   9/19/2022 at 19:25 (582 days old) by Cavimum (USA)        

I have the FF7 since December 2021 and the "Sanitize" cycle is a joke. It uses hot water that comes in at whatever temp the water heater is set, minus cooling down thru the water pipes on the way to the washer, then tumbles the wash for 60 minutes (the owners manual is free on the SQ website) while the water cools down a bit more during the tumble action. The manual states to use Oxygen bleach and apparently SQ believes that alone will sanitize with whatever hot water temp any given consumer has arriving at the washer. Whatever.

While 'sanitize' can simply be defined as 'to make clean', this is a marketing ploy and it shall not be confused by this consumer with 'disinfect.'

So far, I haven't used the Sanitize cycle because having items tumble around for an hour does not appeal to me. Our household doesn't need to disinfect anything, and our elderly dog has since died, so this isn't a big issue.

I miss having an internal heater (our Miele did), but other factors led me choose to the SQ FL over other brands that have one. It is what it is. I lived with an non-hE TL for decades that had no heater and we all survived. ;-)
If SQ came out with a FL with an internal heater, I'd trade this thing in before you could blink an eye. It was nice having one, but we'll be fine without it.

Without the internal heater the pillowcases come out smelling clean by adding STPP, so it was simply an adaptation. (we use unscented detergent, so if it isn't clean, I know by smell; there are no perfumes to hide unclean items.)

I'm still pleased with the washer and have no regrets.

Post# 1159952 , Reply# 19   9/19/2022 at 20:14 (582 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
Reply 13

What about a 240 V 15 amp outlet? As those would be able to support the electrical requirements of a European domestic washing machine and they are about as easy to install as A normal 120v outlet, itís something Iím planning to do when I eventually try and move over to the US,

Post# 1159953 , Reply# 20   9/19/2022 at 20:16 (582 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I"ve had "modern" front loader without (first) and with heater (subsequent 2). And I don't want to go back to the dark ages.

Post# 1159955 , Reply# 21   9/19/2022 at 20:54 (582 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
I know what itís like having a machine without a heater

But the good thing is the machine does use a lot of hot water and so itíll basically be about 50į once it reaches the machine, do you have a machine that I have they do have heaters are European machines and I only have one front loader with a built-in heater

Post# 1159973 , Reply# 22   9/20/2022 at 07:26 (582 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Panethera, You're right. Though there is hope. Code requires that each laundry area have a dedicated 120 volt 20 amp circuit for the washer. Often times this circuit has no other receptacles but the one for the washer itself. It wouldn't be all that impractical to begin converting over to 208-240v. I think it needs to happen if we are to save water and energy. Given that the world will one day be all electric, I think this is inevitable.

@appnut: Much so, sadly. Americans need to broaden their horizon and accept that heaters along with extended wash times in a front load washer are better over all for both clothing and the environment.

Post# 1159975 , Reply# 23   9/20/2022 at 07:53 (582 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

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Whirlpool FL TOL energy usage is 159 kWH vs most manufacturers with heated FL that are in the 100-110 kWH range. I could be wrong, but Iím assuming this difference is either a more powerful heater or a less efficient one. Either way, Iím thinking the 120 volt outlets are not being maxed by the heaters in most brands as they seem to have some more room for more powerful heaters if they wanted to.

Post# 1159988 , Reply# 24   9/20/2022 at 11:26 (582 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

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120v x 15amps gives about 1800 watts draw. Current code IIRC calls for not drawing more than 80% (more or less) of max so now things are down to about 1440 to 1500.

Sudden burst of high wattage use such as AC, fridge or other motors most circuits can withstand.

Thus most washers with heaters sold in USA for domestic use are at 1kva to 1.3kva or bit higher. To get slightly more power would require going to a 20amp circuit on 120v.

On the other hand many front loaders today are rather stingy with water, especially on wash cycles that require heater. Less water means less energy required for heating.

None of this even touches fact not all front loaders will reach set temp for wash cycle anyway.

Post# 1160007 , Reply# 25   9/20/2022 at 16:16 (581 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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John, the reason why the WP FL has rating of 159 KWH is because of software programming. Coincidentally my old Duet also had a similar KWH rating all the way back to 2011. First of all, on the Duet most common cycles had the heater automatically maintain and boost wash water temperatures. I suspect the current WP & Maytag still have the same appropach. Cycles that did automatically have th heater come on was Bulky, Whites, Heavy Duty, Sanitize. Normal and Delicate the heater didn't come on. Currently, the heaeter may come on at highest soil levels for Wrinkle Free, but I don't know for sure. Also, the Duet heated warm water between 95 & 100F. Hot wash was 125F-127F. Allergene was between 131F & 133F. Contrast those temps with my LG. The heater will come on to reach target temp and once that is reaached, the heateer turns off and doesn't come back on. Those cycles are Whites, Bulky, Towels, and Perm Press. For warm target temp ranges from 89F to 94F. Hot ranges from 104F to 112F. For Normal & Heavy Duty cycles, the heater does not come on at all for warm or hot water temps. (by design). Whatevr the temperature is once fill is complete is what the wash water temps is and begins to decline from there. For these two cycles, if Extra Hot is selected, there's no specific target temp except highest temp before heater turns of is 158F (allergene is 161F-163F). As I've said before, 90F classified as warm is marginal at best. The thought of "hot" being 112 is abysmal and disgusting. With button pushing, I am thankful I can reach temperatures I find acceptable for warm or hot.

Post# 1160015 , Reply# 26   9/20/2022 at 18:19 (581 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Code legally lets you draw 100% of the circuit. The 80% rule on applies to items that will run for more than 3 hours without cycling on/off and a select few items specifically listed in the code like water heaters. Other than that an 1,800 watt hair dryers and 1,800 watt toaster ovens, panini presses, ect are both safe and legal.

The intent of the 80% rule is to reduce the probability of nuisance tripping due to heat build up in panel-boards which could shift a breaker's time current curve below the breaker's rating. The wire itself can handle its rated current and then some continuously without even getting warm to the touch. Modern wire insulation is good for 90*C and device terminals at least 60*C.

But your still right. At 1,800 watts heating will take much longer than at 3,600 watts. Boil wash won't take place without a long thermal hold that most people will not want to wait for. On the other hand detergent works better with longer wash times.

Post# 1160113 , Reply# 27   9/22/2022 at 04:52 (580 days old) by mieleforme2 (California)        

I would not have a washer without an internal heater. It makes all the difference in the world.

Post# 1160119 , Reply# 28   9/22/2022 at 07:06 (580 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Front load washers with resistance electric heating

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These can make a little bit of sense from a sufficiency basis if you have a resistance electric water heater and thatís all that you can have in your home.

I have a 17-year-old Speed Queen front load washer with a heater, it probably has been used 20 times in 17 years.

I have a KitchenAid pro line frontload washer with a heater as well Iíve probably used it six times, I also have a new stainless steel Speed Queen frontload washer without a heater itís the best of the three of those machines at cleaning.

I work as a technician I get very dirty every item of clothing Hass to be changed every day I have no problem getting large loads of dirty clothes clean without a heater, a wash temperature of around 120į works very well bleach is used for white loads and very dirty like things to sanitize.

For me and many people using the heater is just a large waste of electricity.

Over half the front load washers I work on have a heater option 90% of customers tell me they never use it or only tried it a couple times.

The 17 year old Speed Queen I have can heat the water to about 150į, the KitchenAid pro line also heats the water quite hot if desired but Iíve never seen any difference in cleaning a quarter cup of bleach does much more.

John L

Post# 1160305 , Reply# 29   9/24/2022 at 13:05 (578 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
More concentrated?

I have top loads.

My water heater is set at 120. I use warm for almost all loads and hot for whites.

John L.'s post made me think. Was it really the heat option on the LG that reduced the mildew and pet odor smell or something else? Both of my top loads have a really good wash action, use the proper temperature (no adding cold when hot is chosen), and have plenty of water. This along with a quality detergent has worked for our needs for the most part. I've only had a few cases where something with a mildew or pet smell lingered.

With my LG front load, I didn't use more than the recommended amounts of anything. I have two options. Turn up the heat or possibly use an enzyme product.

So I have this one article of clothing that I really want the pet smell out. I read the instructions on OdoBan a little closer. It looks like it requires 32 ounces per gallon of water to remove pet odor. So I have filled up the washer with just enough water to cover the item and added a lot more of the OdoBan and will let it soak. But whatever is used also needs to kill the odor causing bacteria too. It was really expensive to use the recommended amount of the product I have, so I be curious is there is a more concentrated option. This is where the hotter temperature might come into play. While this was just one article sometimes it can be a whole load full of stuff that requires some extra product.

Is there an enzyme cleaner that is more concentrated to work in top loads?

Post# 1160351 , Reply# 30   9/25/2022 at 06:02 (577 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Water Heater

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The advantage to heating in a front load is two fold.

1) The water is heated in real time and only the amount being used. Vs keeping 40 gallons of water hot 24/7. In addition to partly filling with cold water, then having several gallons of heated water cool of in the piping afterwords.

2) Starting cold and gradually heating the water lets detergent do its work, in steps, for best soil removal.

The best approach IMO is to fill with cold water, and start tumbling while the heater runs until the desired temp is reached.

Post# 1160352 , Reply# 31   9/25/2022 at 06:10 (577 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
What about the other way around? Such as washing machines

That would have a thermostat that once the water has heated it would start tumbling, what about that?

Post# 1160353 , Reply# 32   9/25/2022 at 06:49 (577 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Static heating

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In front loaders was quite common on early models, Indesit L5 would fill tumble and when the heat phase started it would wait until it reached the set temperature, it also if on a hot cycle would leave the heater on whilst tumbling going way past the desired setting if you turned the dial around to the start of the wash section you could get it to actually boil whilst tumbling...

Post# 1160354 , Reply# 33   9/25/2022 at 07:06 (577 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Tumbling would start after the water is hot, not enough time to let the detergent shine on the cold side of things. EU detergent works in stages as the temperature rises.

Personally I think the industry needs to move away from thermostatic interlocks in wet appliances and just let the heater run for the duration of the cycle with only a stat in series with the heater acting as an upper limit (180*F). Build the temps into the cycles themselves via the time spent washing.

Post# 1160355 , Reply# 34   9/25/2022 at 07:52 (577 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Update to Reply #29 for Top Load Owners & Idea for FL?

For top load owners...

The OdoBan (or something similar) used per instructions (key is to soak in as little water as possible to allow for the concentration of solution as recommended), machine wash as usual, and use the anti-bacterial cycle on a dryer (extended heated dry) seemed to have finally done the trick for that pesky item. The anti-bacterial, if available, dryer cycle may not be an option for some items. Also, it did not seem to work on its own before trying more concentrated enzyme solution.

BTW, I keep wondering how they got the TC5 in this video (link included) to operate with so little water? The cycle I needed extra hot water for is usually a small load of whites. I waste water and chemicals washing this even as a half load.

The TC5 "normal eco" along with the "Heavy Soil" option is a very long soak/wash cycle and seems to use tap hot. Wonder if that is similar the the sani-cycles on other machines without internal heaters?

With that said, I do believe front load washers can even use less water and more efficiently to clean clothes because of the tumble wash action. It may be an especially good idea to run some tap hot near the washer machine location before using, so it fills with tap hot. For those few loads where no internal heater is present, I wonder if one could add some heated water before adding clothes and letting the washer fill? I have a gas stove. Obviously a little more of a scald risk than just making dinner, but...I don't have that many loads that need the internal heater either if it meant a better quality washer or a significant savings. With that said, the TC5 will probably last longer than a front load in the same price range(bought before price went up) and basic model means easier and possibly less costly for me to repair. However, you will also spend more on water and detergents (and other additives too) for top loads. It may be a "wash" there when comparing that to a FL LOL.

Any front load sold should use tap hot when hot is chosen. Any temp sensing should just be used to ensure that warm is warm and cool is warm enough to dissolve detergents. I also think the same should apply to top loads. Instead of crippling products, it is just better to educate people on how to use them which in turn will reduce the energy use. I highly recommend a spin dryer to reduce line or machine dry time.


Post# 1160367 , Reply# 35   9/25/2022 at 09:57 (577 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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PinkPower4: Instead of crippling products, it is just better to educate people on how to use them which in turn will reduce the energy use.
The typical consumer doesn't want education.† He/She wants to mindlessly toss-in the load with a premeasured pod, press one button (too many options!!!) and be done with it.

Regards to the TC5 in the video, the woman is a repair tech and likely can find a way to test-run it with minimal water.

Post# 1165210 , Reply# 36   11/30/2022 at 08:45 (511 days old) by Cavimum (USA)        

"For those few loads where no internal heater is present, I wonder if one could add some heated water before adding clothes and letting the washer fill? "

During really cold weather and our FL SQ is chilly (sits against an outside wall),
I have filled it with HOT but empty and no detergent, let it run five minutes, and then canceled the cycle so it all drains out. This is what I call a pre-heat measure. I always prime the HOT water pipes in the laundry room sink, but the washer interior is quite cold and laundry room temp is under 68F, so that HOT water is chilled down rather quickly.

Once a week for whites, for a couple of months, is not wasting as much water as our old TL ful-fill water hog did for every single load of wash.

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